This is the thread that never ends, it goes on and on...

[Zer0 Kay]

Because I really don't feel like going through tons of posts, can someone tell me why magic can't penetrate the skins of vehicles and giant robots?

I know the rules state it, but ignore that for a moment. Why can't they penetrate?

Just because the new rules created 8 years after Rifts was created can be translated that way.

[Zer0 Kay]

Because I really don't feel like going through tons of posts, can someone tell me why magic can't penetrate the skins of vehicles and giant robots?

I know the rules state it, but ignore that for a moment. Why can't they penetrate?

Because you can't see to target anything on the inside from the outside and vice versa. You need an unobstructed view and in the case of magic even a window is an obstruction.

That's pretty silly then, if a window is an obstruction. You can cast spells out of power armor, and since the reverse is most likely true, into power armor.

Sounds like a good reason, but that would make it impossible to target someone in power armor. Has to be something else.

You can't target someone in power armor with a fireball because the fireball will explode on the armor not go past it and detonate inside. Same with any direct fire spell.

[Zer0 Kay]

1. Why would the queen's chambers be environmentally sealed?
2. It doesn't matter, because environmental sealing has nothing to do with the topic any longer. It's irrelevent to magic penetration.

1. The chamber is supposed to protect the queen. Maybe she has allergies to nerve toxins.

2. I must be behind the times. Has it been decided that its ok to teleport into an fully sealed MDC bunker from the outside? Because that's what a Xitixic queen's chamber might turn out to be, and that's what Lazlo mages are doing. Alas, without my books...

There is no rule against it just Any Vehicle. That was the point KC was trying to make even though he shouldn't have used the cardboard box thing. You can t-port into any building but put a means of locomotion onto it and then you can't.

[Zer0 Kay]

personally i like to know where it says you can teleport inside power armor or a vechile, enlighten me

ANYWHERE

[Mech-Viper Prime]

personally i like to know where it says you can teleport inside power armor or a vechile, enlighten me

ANYWHERE

dont take that way out

[Mech-Viper Prime]

ok if teleport works,
how about remote viewing, d-phase,time warp send, or retro-viewing

[Traska]

If teleporting into a giant robot is affecting the occupants, then so is using a spell to knock the robot down (the occupants go bouncy). So, can a robot not be affected by tremor-type spells then?

It seems if we decide that the cause cannot affect the occupants means that the effect from that cause cannot either, then robots and vehicles become proof against just about all magic. Which is *much* too powerful.

[Colonel Wolfe]

IIRC, on another Thread, it was Said "Sea Magic" can be cast inside a Submersibal vehical, and affect things outside... Thats one place Magic can get Past the Skin of a Robot/Pa/Vehical.

As I've pointed out, an Oregon Trail style covered wagon is a vehicle.
It has no armor (well, canvass), the walls aren't thick, there is no wiring.
Now, TM might say "But it's common sense that they didn't mean vehicles like that!"
But if that's a valid argument, then so is "It's common sense that the rule doesn't apply to Teleport."

for the Wagon... is need not "Penetrate" the skin, it just goes though the open flaps in the fornt and back.

Debates liek this is why i Love Rifts. you'd never catch a 35 page debate on WOTC's forums about how Teleport works in D&D.

[The Galactus Kid]

Debates like this are stupid and inane. Ultimately it is a GM's call. Talk to the GM, and see if he/she will allow it. It's that easy. Kevin and the guys didn't write rules with every little situation in mind. They gave general rules that can be manipulated as the GM sees fit. Thats it.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Debates like this are stupid and inane. Ultimately it is a GM's call. Talk to the GM, and see if he/she will allow it. It's that easy. Kevin and the guys didn't write rules with every little situation in mind. They gave general rules that can be manipulated as the GM sees fit. Thats it.

I know someone said that 1000 posts ago to

[Mech-Viper Prime]

so true but still it a great way for a gm to be up to par. this is one of them post no ones is going to yield on

[MrTwist]

Because I really don't feel like going through tons of posts, can someone tell me why magic can't penetrate the skins of vehicles and giant robots?

I know the rules state it, but ignore that for a moment. Why can't they penetrate?

Because you can't see to target anything on the inside from the outside and vice versa. You need an unobstructed view and in the case of magic even a window is an obstruction.

That's pretty silly then, if a window is an obstruction. You can cast spells out of power armor, and since the reverse is most likely true, into power armor.

Sounds like a good reason, but that would make it impossible to target someone in power armor. Has to be something else.

You can't target someone in power armor with a fireball because the fireball will explode on the armor not go past it and detonate inside. Same with any direct fire spell.

Of course not. Never said you could.

[Dr. Doom III]

That's pretty silly then, if a window is an obstruction. You can cast spells out of power armor, and since the reverse is most likely true, into power armor.

Sounds like a good reason, but that would make it impossible to target someone in power armor. Has to be something else.

PA like body armor is like clothing and does not count.

[Dr. Doom III]

personally i like to know where it says you can teleport inside power armor or a vechile, enlighten me

Asked and answered.

Rifts Main Book Pg. 177
"...instantly transported from the location of the spell weaver to any location miles away. The only requirements are that the mage touches the object... and that the location to where it is being sent is known to him."

Bold added for emphasis.

[Colonel Wolfe]

1. Why would the queen's chambers be environmentally sealed?
2. It doesn't matter, because environmental sealing has nothing to do with the topic any longer. It's irrelevent to magic penetration.

1. The chamber is supposed to protect the queen. Maybe she has allergies to nerve toxins.

2. I must be behind the times. Has it been decided that its ok to teleport into an fully sealed MDC bunker from the outside? Because that's what a Xitixic queen's chamber might turn out to be, and that's what Lazlo mages are doing. Alas, without my books...

I've pointed out several times the place where the BoM is discussing vehicles. It mentions that a mage has to stick his body halfway out a window in order to cast a spell outside of the vehicle. Otherwise, he could be driving his car along, all four windows down, and still not be able to cast out.

that was all a LOS issue. besides if he was parked he wouldn't need to be sticking his body out.

that was also depending on that authors view of magic, He assumes that we all beleive magic takes forever to cast and that there is alot of D&D like chanting and swirling energy involved.

off topic... D&D spells take less tiem then Rifts spells.... D&D round is 6 seconds... a Mage can cast 1 spell in that time & Move, a Rifts round is 15, and a Mage can cast 2 spells (or get 4+ attacks).... but i'm not sure he can move while casting.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

personally i like to know where it says you can teleport inside power armor or a vechile, enlighten me

Asked and answered.

Rifts Main Book Pg. 177
"...instantly transported from the location of the spell weaver to any location miles away. The only requirements are that the mage touches the object... and that the location to where it is being sent is known to him."

Bold added for emphasis.

come on bucket head,why must you leave out the first part" the power to transmits matter"(sounds kinda radio signals then just apearing, so i guess it's blocked too)

[Dr. Doom III]

come on bucket head,why must you leave out the first part" the power to transmits matter"(sounds kinda radio signals then just apearing, so i guess it's blocked too)

Because it's irrelevant.

Transmit
1. To send from one person, thing, or place to another; convey. See Synonyms at convey. See Synonyms at send1.
2. To cause to spread; pass on: transmit an infection.
3. To impart or convey to others by heredity or inheritance; hand down.
4. To pass along (news or information); communicate.
5.
Electronics. To send (a signal), as by wire or radio.
Physics. To cause (a disturbance) to propagate through a medium.
6. To convey (force or energy) from one part of a mechanism to another.

The method of conveyance doesn't matter. The nature of teleport, which is being instantly sent from one place to another, precludes any worldly medium.

[Zer0 Kay]

Because I really don't feel like going through tons of posts, can someone tell me why magic can't penetrate the skins of vehicles and giant robots?

I know the rules state it, but ignore that for a moment. Why can't they penetrate?

I've asked this before, and here are the answers I got:

Doom says it must be line of sight. That doesn't make complete sense because you can look out through windows on a lot of vehicles. The passage talking about a mage hanging halfway out a window in order to cast could be a particularly poor attempt to describe a mage attempting to get a better view of somebody, but it doesn't seem to be.

Another person claimed that it was Environmental Sealing, but I disproved that by pointing out the whole "mage hanging out a window" passage. Also, the book doesn't say "environmentally sealed vehicles", just "vehicles."

Finally, a couple people have said that it must be MDC materials that keep magic from penetrating, but once again the book just says "Vehicles", not "MDC Vehicles."


My own personal opinion is that everybody is reading way too much into the rule. Basically, it's just there to keep people from casting fireballs out of tanks or robots. You can't cast magic out of a vehicle for the same reason you can't cast magic through a wall.
Needless to say, it doesn't apply to any magic that is meant to penetrate walls, such as teleportation.

How about you can't cast magic out of a vehicle for the same reason you can't shoot out of a vehicle.

[Zer0 Kay]

personally i like to know where it says you can teleport inside power armor or a vechile, enlighten me

ANYWHERE

dont take that way out

I'm sorry is that too Doom for you?

[Zer0 Kay]

ok if teleport works,
how about remote viewing, d-phase,time warp send, or retro-viewing

Dang it are you gonna make me look those up? If you got them at hand give a description without giveing stats.

[Zer0 Kay]

If teleporting into a giant robot is affecting the occupants, then so is using a spell to knock the robot down (the occupants go bouncy). So, can a robot not be affected by tremor-type spells then?

It seems if we decide that the cause cannot affect the occupants means that the effect from that cause cannot either, then robots and vehicles become proof against just about all magic. Which is *much* too powerful.

Hey they could be fireballed from the back! That way the fire ball doesn't cause the pilots retinas to shrink. DANG I just got a great new one. Any one using a flight power can't be detected on a vehicles RADAR no matter how large the object is, because that would be affecting the equipment. Instead of flying with it's wings a Dragon can cast fly as the eagle and be completley invisible to any vehicular sensors even video cameras!

[Zer0 Kay]

IIRC, on another Thread, it was Said "Sea Magic" can be cast inside a Submersibal vehical, and affect things outside... Thats one place Magic can get Past the Skin of a Robot/Pa/Vehical.

I beleive in most cases you still have to have line of sight (porthole).

As I've pointed out, an Oregon Trail style covered wagon is a vehicle.
It has no armor (well, canvass), the walls aren't thick, there is no wiring.
Now, TM might say "But it's common sense that they didn't mean vehicles like that!"
But if that's a valid argument, then so is "It's common sense that the rule doesn't apply to Teleport."

for the Wagon... is need not "Penetrate" the skin, it just goes though the open flaps in the fornt and back.

Debates liek this is why i Love Rifts. you'd never catch a 35 page debate on WOTC's forums about how Teleport works in D&D.

So what if their casting it from the side? Or if it has it's front and back flaps down.

[Zer0 Kay]

Debates like this are stupid and inane. Ultimately it is a GM's call. Talk to the GM, and see if he/she will allow it. It's that easy. Kevin and the guys didn't write rules with every little situation in mind. They gave general rules that can be manipulated as the GM sees fit. Thats it.

I love people who don't like something so instead of ignoring it just have to walk back and start yappin. Oh and thanks to adding to the post count of this thread

[Zer0 Kay]

Because I really don't feel like going through tons of posts, can someone tell me why magic can't penetrate the skins of vehicles and giant robots?

I know the rules state it, but ignore that for a moment. Why can't they penetrate?

Because you can't see to target anything on the inside from the outside and vice versa. You need an unobstructed view and in the case of magic even a window is an obstruction.

That's pretty silly then, if a window is an obstruction. You can cast spells out of power armor, and since the reverse is most likely true, into power armor.

Sounds like a good reason, but that would make it impossible to target someone in power armor. Has to be something else.

You can't target someone in power armor with a fireball because the fireball will explode on the armor not go past it and detonate inside. Same with any direct fire spell.

Of course not. Never said you could.

Perfect example of how the rule is misread.

You said the opposite is true if you can cast spells out of armor you should be able to cast in.

I said you can't cast fireball (into) at the pilot it hits the armor (not penetrating the skin).

You said you never said it could, but you did "You can cast spells out of power armor, and since the reverse is most likely true, into power armor."

You see what I mean?

[Zer0 Kay]

1. Why would the queen's chambers be environmentally sealed?
2. It doesn't matter, because environmental sealing has nothing to do with the topic any longer. It's irrelevent to magic penetration.

1. The chamber is supposed to protect the queen. Maybe she has allergies to nerve toxins.

2. I must be behind the times. Has it been decided that its ok to teleport into an fully sealed MDC bunker from the outside? Because that's what a Xitixic queen's chamber might turn out to be, and that's what Lazlo mages are doing. Alas, without my books...

I've pointed out several times the place where the BoM is discussing vehicles. It mentions that a mage has to stick his body halfway out a window in order to cast a spell outside of the vehicle. Otherwise, he could be driving his car along, all four windows down, and still not be able to cast out.

that was all a LOS issue. besides if he was parked he wouldn't need to be sticking his body out.

Why is that because it suddenly changes from vehicle to building? Yay it's a new transformer, Ultraborringus!

that was also depending on that authors view of magic, He assumes that we all beleive magic takes forever to cast and that there is alot of D&D like chanting and swirling energy involved.

From what do you derive that the author beleives we are assuming magic is cast D&D style?

[Zer0 Kay]

personally i like to know where it says you can teleport inside power armor or a vechile, enlighten me

Asked and answered.

Rifts Main Book Pg. 177
"...instantly transported from the location of the spell weaver to any location miles away. The only requirements are that the mage touches the object... and that the location to where it is being sent is known to him."

Bold added for emphasis.

That is kinda long winded for you isn't it...but then again I guess the only thing FROM YOU is "Asked and answered" eh?

[Zer0 Kay]

personally i like to know where it says you can teleport inside power armor or a vechile, enlighten me

Asked and answered.

Rifts Main Book Pg. 177
"...instantly transported from the location of the spell weaver to any location miles away. The only requirements are that the mage touches the object... and that the location to where it is being sent is known to him."

Bold added for emphasis.

come on bucket head,why must you leave out the first part" the power to transmits matter"(sounds kinda radio signals then just apearing, so i guess it's blocked too)

well the Suns transmit photon particles, and black holes transmit x-rays, and nuclear bombs transmit alpha, beta and gamma particles as well as thermal energy, concussive shock waves, audio waves, photon particles, what ever material it picks up, blah blah blah point being transmit means http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=transmit. Try the first one it doesn't say anything about using a signal or anything else. A RT ship when it folds transmits itself from one location to another. It does not exist in any form anywhere in between, just as a mage does not exist in ANY FORM in between the location he starts at and his desired location.

[MrTwist]

Doom wins.

With the length of this topic, the winner(s) should get some kind of trophy. Or an etched shot glass. Something.

[Zer0 Kay]

Doom wins.

Based on? What was the definitive KO shot?

[Zer0 Kay]

come on bucket head,why must you leave out the first part" the power to transmits matter"(sounds kinda radio signals then just apearing, so i guess it's blocked too)

Because it's irrelevant.

Transmit
1. To send from one person, thing, or place to another; convey. See Synonyms at convey. See Synonyms at send1.
2. To cause to spread; pass on: transmit an infection.
3. To impart or convey to others by heredity or inheritance; hand down.
4. To pass along (news or information); communicate.
5.
Electronics. To send (a signal), as by wire or radio.
Physics. To cause (a disturbance) to propagate through a medium.
6. To convey (force or energy) from one part of a mechanism to another.

The method of conveyance doesn't matter. The nature of teleport, which is being instantly sent from one place to another, precludes any worldly medium.

Isn't that a way shorter way of saying what I said earlier? That T-port is even faster than a tachyon?

[Dr. Doom III]

Isn't that a way shorter way of saying what I said earlier? That T-port is even faster than a tachyon?

That's my style man.

[Colonel Wolfe]

don't confuse D&D with 3rd ed, We're talking the original version, where a round was 1 minute.

Actually D&D is 3rd ed. its the only thing on the Market i know of with the Name D&D.... oh, you mena the out of print Board game form the 70-80's?
I dont own a copy of it, but I do own some nice D&D books published by WOTC/Hasbro with 6 second rounds....
as far as "we'er" talking about D&D... you were talking about the author assuming something... but no one before you mentioned that... When i see the Words D&D i dont think about a Board game, I think about the Currrent Rules Edition of the Game of that Name.... Just like when someone Says PFRPG.... most people think of the Current rules set for that game as well.

so... Whats the Final word here...
I think it works....

[Mech-Viper Prime]

so i guess CS,,FQ, NGR, and anyone esle who uses power armor and vechiles can be taken out by a low level mage on the battlefield with one spell and fusion blocks

[Mech-Viper Prime]

come on bucket head,why must you leave out the first part" the power to transmits matter"(sounds kinda radio signals then just apearing, so i guess it's blocked too)

Because it's irrelevant.

Transmit
1. To send from one person, thing, or place to another; convey. See Synonyms at convey. See Synonyms at send1.
2. To cause to spread; pass on: transmit an infection.
3. To impart or convey to others by heredity or inheritance; hand down.
4. To pass along (news or information); communicate.
5.
Electronics. To send (a signal), as by wire or radio.
Physics. To cause (a disturbance) to propagate through a medium.
6. To convey (force or energy) from one part of a mechanism to another.

The method of conveyance doesn't matter. The nature of teleport, which is being instantly sent from one place to another, precludes any worldly medium.

Isn't that a way shorter way of saying what I said earlier? That T-port is even faster than a tachyon?

but magic is still a form of energy rifts main page 161 under "How does magic work?" and the object still has to be transmitted( or teleport) no matter how long it takes, so it has to pass thru the outside of the armor

[MrTwist]

so i guess CS,,FQ, NGR, and anyone esle who uses power armor and vechiles can be taken out by a low level mage on the battlefield with one spell and fusion blocks

Do you keep using power armor and vehicles in the same argument because you have nothing better ti do? Stop using power armor as an example please.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

sorry but since it about teleporting into powerarmor/robot mecha/vechiles it has to be in

[Dr. Doom III]

but magic is still a form of energy rifts main page 161 under "How does magic work?" and the object still has to be transmitted( or teleport) no matter how long it takes, so it has to pass thru the outside of the armor

OK two things depending on how you want to look at it.

1. Magic is not passing through it. The object is. Magic imparts the objects momentum.

2. Magic is not passing through it. Teleport bypasses all physical barriers between the targets original location and it's destination.

[Dr. Doom III]

sorry but since it about teleporting into powerarmor/robot mecha/vechiles it has to be in

No it's about Giant Robots and Vehicles.
Power Armor is not affected by this rule since you can cast magic through it from the inside (it just costs more and has a chance you screw up) and therefore you can cast magic into it. That's all magic not just teleport since that would work anyway.

[Zer0 Kay]

don't confuse D&D with 3rd ed, We're talking the original version, where a round was 1 minute.

Actually D&D is 3rd ed. its the only thing on the Market i know of with the Name D&D.... oh, you mena the out of print Board game form the 70-80's?
I dont own a copy of it, but I do own some nice D&D books published by WOTC/Hasbro with 6 second rounds....
as far as "we'er" talking about D&D... you were talking about the author assuming something... but no one before you mentioned that... When i see the Words D&D i dont think about a Board game, I think about the Currrent Rules Edition of the Game of that Name.... Just like when someone Says PFRPG.... most people think of the Current rules set for that game as well.

so... Whats the Final word here...

No the out of print board game from the 70-80's was called Dungeon. Before AD&D, AD&D 2ed there was D&D the one I'm familiar with was boxed sets starting with the basic red book then going to the advanced blue book into the green expert book and I forget what color the the Immortal book was. Ahhh...the good old days.
I think it works....

Yeah NOT everyone thinks of the current rules set of D&D. Some of us don't like the current rule set. I won't play the new D&D because it is NOT D&D any more. It just has it's name. I especially hate how Hasbro thinks that by buying the company allows them to take credit for all previous work. The aniversary of D&D saw Hasbro release a page add in many game magazines "We were the first, and we're still the best." They weren't the first Gary Gygax was the first with his partner. The mutation of D&D that exists today is not the best! I might play it if Hasbro had just discarded the facad of it being D&D and named it something completely different maybe K&K Kids and Kitties. It's been dumbed down and made easy for anyone to understand. It's like Huffy buying out Harley Davidson producing a line of bicycles and calling them Harley Davidson Motorcycles. It has been kiddified more than TMNT was. It's just this time it's the rules and spirit of the game instead of it's surface.

[Zer0 Kay]

so i guess CS,,FQ, NGR, and anyone esle who uses power armor and vechiles can be taken out by a low level mage on the battlefield with one spell and fusion blocks

NO. How many mages select teleport? How many of those have seen the inside of the equipment they plan to teleport the item into? How do you teleport something selectively into one of 100 duplicate machines. If they do practice internal pattern variation then how many of them does the mage know.

Sure why not it would force the CS and FQ to develop forcefields. As well as force the NGR to further develop their system. Like I said before even low powered internal forcefields that are held between a bulkhead and the MDC armor.

[Zer0 Kay]

come on bucket head,why must you leave out the first part" the power to transmits matter"(sounds kinda radio signals then just apearing, so i guess it's blocked too)

Because it's irrelevant.

Transmit
1. To send from one person, thing, or place to another; convey. See Synonyms at convey. See Synonyms at send1.
2. To cause to spread; pass on: transmit an infection.
3. To impart or convey to others by heredity or inheritance; hand down.
4. To pass along (news or information); communicate.
5.
Electronics. To send (a signal), as by wire or radio.
Physics. To cause (a disturbance) to propagate through a medium.
6. To convey (force or energy) from one part of a mechanism to another.

The method of conveyance doesn't matter. The nature of teleport, which is being instantly sent from one place to another, precludes any worldly medium.

Isn't that a way shorter way of saying what I said earlier? That T-port is even faster than a tachyon?

but magic is still a form of energy rifts main page 161 under "How does magic work?" and the object still has to be transmitted( or teleport) no matter how long it takes, so it has to pass thru the outside of the armor

OK the casting of magic is shaping of mystic energy. No where does it say that the effect of the end product is energy or even material.

Lets go over this again. Folding space can be shown on a pice of paper draw a dark dot on a pice of paper this is the mage) and put a circle around it (this is the impenatrable skin of ANY VEHICLE). Draw another dark dot somewhere on the opposite side of the pice of paper (This is the desired/visualized location the "target" only in the mind of the caster which is not effected by the spell but by the mage who suddenly appears their). Notice there is NO line between the two dots. Now hold the paper up to the light with the "mage and skinn" toward you and fold the paper so the "location" dot goes behind the other. Now unfold the paper toward you leaving the location dot on the top of the page. You have just completed Rifts slowest teleport. Notice there is still NO line between the mage and the location.

[Zer0 Kay]

so i guess CS,,FQ, NGR, and anyone esle who uses power armor and vechiles can be taken out by a low level mage on the battlefield with one spell and fusion blocks

Do you keep using power armor and vehicles in the same argument because you have nothing better ti do? Stop using power armor as an example please.

Technically the rule in the BoM states PA and Vehicles/Giant Robots. So why shouldn't he keep bringing up PA?

[Zer0 Kay]

sorry but since it about teleporting into powerarmor/robot mecha/vechiles it has to be in

Actually your the first one to bring up PA... just look at the posts before your first one. If it was mentioned it was rarely.

[Zer0 Kay]

sorry but since it about teleporting into powerarmor/robot mecha/vechiles it has to be in

No it's about Giant Robots and Vehicles.
Power Armor is not affected by this rule since you can cast magic through it from the inside (it just costs more and has a chance you screw up) and therefore you can cast magic into it. That's all magic not just teleport since that would work anyway.

You still can't cast all magic into the PAs. Plus the rule in the book heading has PA in it.

Any direct fire spells can't be cast into PAs or EBAs because they can't pass through the skin it's called impacting on the surface.

[Killer Cyborg]

so i guess CS,,FQ, NGR, and anyone esle who uses power armor and vechiles can be taken out by a low level mage on the battlefield with one spell and fusion blocks

NO. How many mages select teleport? How many of those have seen the inside of the equipment they plan to teleport the item into? How do you teleport something selectively into one of 100 duplicate machines. If they do practice internal pattern variation then how many of them does the mage know.

In order to teleport someplace, the mage has to be familiar with that place.
This does NOT mean "Must have a rough idea of what it looks like."
It also does NOT mean "Must be familiar with someplace that looks simular to the place he wants to teleport to."

In order to teleport into a vehicle, or to teleport an object into a vehicle, the mage has to be familiar with that specific vehicle.
It doesn't matter if there's an identical looking vehicle out there somewhere, you can only teleport into the actual vehicle that you are familiar with.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

well all my questons have been answer so i guess you can teleport

[Zer0 Kay]

so i guess CS,,FQ, NGR, and anyone esle who uses power armor and vechiles can be taken out by a low level mage on the battlefield with one spell and fusion blocks

NO. How many mages select teleport? How many of those have seen the inside of the equipment they plan to teleport the item into? How do you teleport something selectively into one of 100 duplicate machines. If they do practice internal pattern variation then how many of them does the mage know.

In order to teleport someplace, the mage has to be familiar with that place.
This does NOT mean "Must have a rough idea of what it looks like."
It also does NOT mean "Must be familiar with someplace that looks simular to the place he wants to teleport to."

In order to teleport into a vehicle, or to teleport an object into a vehicle, the mage has to be familiar with that specific vehicle.
It doesn't matter if there's an identical looking vehicle out there somewhere, you can only teleport into the actual vehicle that you are familiar with.

That may be ok of TP:L however it states in TP:S that you can teleport to a location successfully with just the knowledge imparted to you by someones detailed description, an even better chance if it is just a picture. So you don't need to be familiar with the location your teleporting to. TP:L states that the mage must know the location. Know is such a maliable word whose deffinition can be twisted both ways. So in the case of TP:S if you are able to teleport with a detailed description of the location there is no better detailed description for a pice of equipment than it's blue prints...but which vehicle is the blue prints to? ALL OF THEM! So how do you controll which one you go to or does the spell not allow teleportation then since its not sure which one to go to?

[Killer Cyborg]

it states in TP:S that you can teleport to a location successfully with just the knowledge imparted to you by someones detailed description, an even better chance if it is just a picture. So you don't need to be familiar with the location your teleporting to. TP:L states that the mage must know the location. Know is such a maliable word whose deffinition can be twisted both ways. So in the case of TP:S if you are able to teleport with a detailed description of the location there is no better detailed description for a pice of equipment than it's blue prints...but which vehicle is the blue prints to? ALL OF THEM! So how do you controll which one you go to or does the spell not allow teleportation then since its not sure which one to go to?

To me, being familiar with a vehicle is not the same as knowing the blueprints.

For example, say I was a doctor and had memorized the anatomy of the human body to great detail.
If somebody asked me "Do you know Brittany Spears?"
Could I reasonably say "Yes I Do!" just because I had studied the human body in general?
Say I memorized her actual DNA code, would that mean that I "was familiar with her?"
Blueprints aren't a detailed description of a vehicle any more than a person's x-ray is a detailed picture of them.
I certainly wouldn't count it if I were GMing a game and somebody tried that.

As for how you control which one you go to, you go to the one that you are familiar with or the one that you are aiming for.
Teleportation is NOT a visually directed spell, it's mentally directed. The pilot compartments of two seperate Spider Skullwalkers might appear the identical on the surface, but the vehicles would not BE identical.
Visualizing the location helps the mage think about where he wants to go, but it's not the only factor.
Or else a mage could just close his eyes and teleport into any dark room.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

"familiar" , which answers one question and opens other one then other

how familiar means to each one, ok you got blueprint so you are familiar with the blueprints of equipment, but not familiar with the working equipment.

[MrTwist]

so i guess CS,,FQ, NGR, and anyone esle who uses power armor and vechiles can be taken out by a low level mage on the battlefield with one spell and fusion blocks

Do you keep using power armor and vehicles in the same argument because you have nothing better ti do? Stop using power armor as an example please.

Technically the rule in the BoM states PA and Vehicles/Giant Robots. So why shouldn't he keep bringing up PA?

No, the question states power armors/giant robots/vehicles. The answer is in two separate paragraphs, each giving two separate rules. One paragraph has the rule for PA's. The second paragraph has a separate rule for giant robots and vehicles.