Do you support the Coalition? Come vote.

[dark brandon]

dont forget that the CS is not just Chi-Town, but it also controls a good part of what was the mid west and a chunk of Texas.

Don't forget, FoM is loosly organized. As such, if CS did find out and go to war, it would be much shorter. Their will be magic users turning on magic users for things like treasure or power. No doubt that if Dunscon himself were in trouble, it would be one of his own minions who do him in in an attempt to usurp his power than it would be some CS soldier.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

a number are sided with him but they are still a number of hold-outs,dunscon is allied with demons,dragons and old ugly eye, but i guess the coalition is more evil then them three.

[Vinny]

Don't like racism, don't like specism, don't like people thinking those who are different suck

[cornholioprime]

I think The Three would kill Dunscon and put an end to it before he got started seriously...they know they'd pay for his idiocy too... the CS won't distinguish.

I said as much in one of the first Responses to this Post. And THAT'S why I said that this time, the CS will either be rebuffed outright or have their arses handed to them. Two reasons, actually. ONE, because they WON'T distinguish between one Magic-Using Nation and another, and TWO, Dunscon's gonna have to do somthing PRETTY DARNED EVIL to stop the remaining Magic Using Nations from siding with him as a last ditch effort to stop the CS. Hell, SOME sort of true Alliance SHOULD have been done long ago, but as we all know, in Rifts North America, only Human Supremacist Nation-States are allowed to be smart enough to make Military Alliances.......

[Mech-Viper Prime]

I think The Three would kill Dunscon and put an end to it before he got started seriously...they know they'd pay for his idiocy too... the CS won't distinguish.

I said as much in one of the first Responses to this Post. And THAT'S why I said that this time, the CS will either be rebuffed outright or have their arses handed to them. Two reasons, actually. ONE, because they WON'T distinguish between one Magic-Using Nation and another, and TWO, Dunscon's gonna have to do somthing PRETTY DARNED EVIL to stop the remaining Magic Using Nations from siding with him as a last ditch effort to stop the CS. Hell, SOME sort of true Alliance SHOULD have been done long ago, but as we all know, in Rifts North America, only Human Supremacist Nation-States are allowed to be smart enough to make Military Alliances.......

well since the coalition doesnt have any plans to hold any area within the magic zone and the fact most of the other leaders dont like Dunscon any more then they like the Coalition

[Guest]

I don't support them, but I don't go out of my way to kill them.


Though, if I suddenly found myself with the SDF-1, or 10 Air Elementals at my command I might assault Chi-Town.

[Dead Boy]

All you have to do is read Aftermath pgs 135-137. It clearly states that the CS is detrimental to its own people, in no uncertain terms, and that Prosek is leading the CS down the trail of destruction by making way too many enemies, putting all the CS's cards on the table for everyone to see, and later in the same section, points out how the CS has little intel on it's major enemies...who now know everything the CS has got.

Ya know, I had a thought about that and similar lines of text throughout the books. This is an example of material for the players meant to help set the mood and environment. Though it was originally set up as an option, Kev never really thought that people would want to play the "Bad Guys". And as such the material was made to reflect this. Grossly negative lines like the above example weren't really intended to reflect the true inner workings of the CS and its leadership. They were intended to set the tone and feeling that the player characters are supposed to have. It's kind of like a built-in personal slant that the PCs are made to think because that's what they've been told to believe, as have the players running them. It's not too dissimilar to how the people of the Middle East see us and their attitudes towards the US. They believe all sorts of outrageous falsehoods because that's what they've been told by what they consider to be reliable sources. Kev may have done the same thing, using the text as a mind-set molding mechanism for all non-CS player characters and the people who play them.

[Hystrix]

Dead boy.. you must be a Republican, ... I bet you really like Bush's New Tax plan...


Speaking back on topic..
AFTERMATH IS A GM BOOK ... NOT A PLAYER BOOK!
the Info in the Aftermath book is FOR GMS! Not FOR PLAYERS!


Face the change, YOU JUST LIKE PLAYING WITH HUMAN SUPREMACISTS!

You know, I don't think I know ANY Rifts books that are for GM's only. Even the GM's guide is a good reference for players so your statement Angryjack dosn't hold water.

The Cs is ment to be a grey area. If it's all Black and White, pack up now, and quit the game... 'Cause this mystery has been solved...

[Vinny]

Dead boy.. you must be a Republican, ... I bet you really like Bush's New Tax plan...


Speaking back on topic..
AFTERMATH IS A GM BOOK ... NOT A PLAYER BOOK!
the Info in the Aftermath book is FOR GMS! Not FOR PLAYERS!


Face the change, YOU JUST LIKE PLAYING WITH HUMAN SUPREMACISTS!

Man...all the shouting...hurts my ears...er...fingers...um....yeah whatever.

[dark brandon]

Dead boy.. you must be a Republican, ... I bet you really like Bush's New Tax plan...

I like bush's new tax plan, but i'm not republican. So...Other than a possible "cheap shot" at republicans, FAIL!

Speaking back on topic..
AFTERMATH IS A GM BOOK ... NOT A PLAYER BOOK!
the Info in the Aftermath book is FOR GMS! Not FOR PLAYERS!

No book ever printed by palladium is a "GM's book". FAIL!

Face the change, YOU JUST LIKE PLAYING WITH HUMAN SUPREMACISTS!

Human supremacists rox! WIN!

[dark brandon]

Squish the SQu]ishe!


besides, There are OTHER FACTIONS besides the CS for a pro human player to pick. I don't think playing a Genocidal, Xenophobic, Ignorant , Illiterate , Misguided Empire to be the Best choice for a Human in the North Americas.

I like to think of her as a fixer upper.

[dark brandon]

Squish the SQu]ishe!


besides, There are OTHER FACTIONS besides the CS for a pro human player to pick. I don't think playing a Genocidal, Xenophobic, Ignorant , Illiterate , Misguided Empire to be the Best choice for a Human in the North Americas.

I like to think of her as a fixer upper.

Don't take that tone of voice with me young man!

[Mech-Viper Prime]

a number are sided with him but they are still a number of hold-outs,dunscon is allied with demons,dragons and old ugly eye, but i guess the coalition is more evil then them three.

But the splugorth doesn't have anything to gain by helping Ducson, and he's all about the money so.............I really don't see him helping much.

gee an unlimited amount of slaves

[Kalinda]

Squish the SQu]ishe!


besides, There are OTHER FACTIONS besides the CS for a pro human player to pick. I don't think playing a Genocidal, Xenophobic, Ignorant , Illiterate , Misguided Empire to be the Best choice for a Human in the North Americas.

I like to think of her as a fixer upper.

BINGO!

Culturally speaking, the CS has got nowhere to go but up.

[grandmaster z0b]

I see all the megacities being wasted and all those people murdered.

Yes! Dunscan will slaughter the stupid, ignorant inhabitants of Chi Town and the FoM will dance on the graves of those moronic enough to side with the CS. All right wing human supremists will die!

[Mech-Viper Prime]

I see all the megacities being wasted and all those people murdered.

Yes! Dunscan will slaughter the stupid, ignorant inhabitants of Chi Town and the FoM will dance on the graves of those moronic enough to side with the CS. All right wing human supremists will die!

yup just like last time, .................no ...........................wait his father tried that and failed pages9-13 FOM

[Mech-Viper Prime]

I see all the megacities being wasted and all those people murdered.

Yes! Dunscan will slaughter the stupid, ignorant inhabitants of Chi Town and the FoM will dance on the graves of those moronic enough to side with the CS. All right wing human supremists will die!

yup just like last time, .................no ...........................wait his father tried that and failed pages9-13 FOM

On a side note though: If Duncson does somehow kill Prosek, that would make a good story for Joseph to go after Duncson. Kind of like you killed my father so I kill you, then Joseph does the same thing.....kind of like a family feud. Except Joseph would use the Vanguard to the extreme and be successful.

yup kill his brother, kidnapped his mother , then kill his father Little jojo would make it a point to kill dunscon even if he had to sign treaties with most of the magic zone to do it and odds are most of them would sign a peace treaty with him just to get rid of dunscon

[Mech-Viper Prime]

I see all the megacities being wasted and all those people murdered.

Yes! Dunscan will slaughter the stupid, ignorant inhabitants of Chi Town and the FoM will dance on the graves of those moronic enough to side with the CS. All right wing human supremists will die!

yup just like last time, .................no ...........................wait his father tried that and failed pages9-13 FOM

On a side note though: If Duncson does somehow kill Prosek, that would make a good story for Joseph to go after Duncson. Kind of like you killed my father so I kill you, then Joseph does the same thing.....kind of like a family feud. Except Joseph would use the Vanguard to the extreme and be successful.

yup kill his brother, kidnapped his mother , then kill his father Little jojo would make it a point to kill dunscon even if he had to sign treaties with most of the magic zone to do it and odds are most of them would sign a peace treaty with him just to get rid of dunscon

Little JoJo would can definitely pull up more resources/alliances than his father, he's manipulative as hell. He would befriend everybody around the FoM and when he's done crushing the FoM he would then just take out all the D-bee towns he made alliances with.

Plus I'm almost positive JoJo would re-establish the Vanguard and part of the military and even make it bigger.

no i dont know i think he might end up giving in to his mother pleas for peace, besides little jojo is long term planner

[dark brandon]

I don't see jojo reestablishing the Vanguard as an official group, but he probably would make them more "known" to higher officials and ISS groups as to "turn a blind eye to them". They'd probably even get a bit of funding and possibly some place out in the arm pit of no-where (or perhaps in Lonestar) to conduct magic studies. But they will never be "officially" recognized, and all that I have just stated is what the BEST that could happen. At worse, nothing at all will change. (I doubt he'll hunt the vanguard down).

Interesting thought, I bet if CS had stayed with magic, little Jojo would be one hell of a mage by now.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

I see all the megacities being wasted and all those people murdered.

Yes! Dunscan will slaughter the stupid, ignorant inhabitants of Chi Town and the FoM will dance on the graves of those moronic enough to side with the CS. All right wing human supremists will die!

yup just like last time, .................no ...........................wait his father tried that and failed pages9-13 FOM

On a side note though: If Duncson does somehow kill Prosek, that would make a good story for Joseph to go after Duncson. Kind of like you killed my father so I kill you, then Joseph does the same thing.....kind of like a family feud. Except Joseph would use the Vanguard to the extreme and be successful.

yup kill his brother, kidnapped his mother , then kill his father Little jojo would make it a point to kill dunscon even if he had to sign treaties with most of the magic zone to do it and odds are most of them would sign a peace treaty with him just to get rid of dunscon

Little JoJo would can definitely pull up more resources/alliances than his father, he's manipulative as hell. He would befriend everybody around the FoM and when he's done crushing the FoM he would then just take out all the D-bee towns he made alliances with.

Plus I'm almost positive JoJo would re-establish the Vanguard and part of the military and even make it bigger.

no i dont know i think he might end up giving in to his mother pleas for peace, besides little jojo is long term planner

Unless the death of her husband by the hand of their D-Bee magic wielding enemies makes her as evil as ever

I say JoJo should conduct some studies to see the population rate of humans are vs d-bees, if waiting means more d-bees to ounumber the humans then he might want to go ahead and continue with the Campaign of Unity.

no because part of the group that saved her was a dragon and some mages, so it might end up with a stronger coalition with magic and d-bees in it and not like the coalition will run out of thing to fight bugs to the north vampires to the south and demons coming out of the rifts, and md the spin master would have a grand old time spinning magic and d-bees into the coalition and yes little jojo could have some of the battle hard vets weeping like babies

[Mech-Viper Prime]

I don't see jojo reestablishing the Vanguard as an official group, but he probably would make them more "known" to higher officials and ISS groups as to "turn a blind eye to them". They'd probably even get a bit of funding and possibly some place out in the arm pit of no-where (or perhaps in Lonestar) to conduct magic studies. But they will never be "officially" recognized, and all that I have just stated is what the BEST that could happen. At worse, nothing at all will change. (I doubt he'll hunt the vanguard down).

Interesting thought, I bet if CS had stayed with magic, little Jojo would be one hell of a mage by now.

You're probably right, this sounds more reasonable and more likely to happen.

thats it why dont the both of you just crush my thoughts hopes and dreams

[dark brandon]

I don't see jojo reestablishing the Vanguard as an official group, but he probably would make them more "known" to higher officials and ISS groups as to "turn a blind eye to them". They'd probably even get a bit of funding and possibly some place out in the arm pit of no-where (or perhaps in Lonestar) to conduct magic studies. But they will never be "officially" recognized, and all that I have just stated is what the BEST that could happen. At worse, nothing at all will change. (I doubt he'll hunt the vanguard down).

Interesting thought, I bet if CS had stayed with magic, little Jojo would be one hell of a mage by now.

You're probably right, this sounds more reasonable and more likely to happen.

thats it why dont the both of you just crush my thoughts hopes and dreams

Ok, Fairies don't exist, santa does exist, but he hates you, your the reason your father drinks and your mom doesn't believe you can be anything exept a janitor at a highschool.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

I don't see jojo reestablishing the Vanguard as an official group, but he probably would make them more "known" to higher officials and ISS groups as to "turn a blind eye to them". They'd probably even get a bit of funding and possibly some place out in the arm pit of no-where (or perhaps in Lonestar) to conduct magic studies. But they will never be "officially" recognized, and all that I have just stated is what the BEST that could happen. At worse, nothing at all will change. (I doubt he'll hunt the vanguard down).

Interesting thought, I bet if CS had stayed with magic, little Jojo would be one hell of a mage by now.

You're probably right, this sounds more reasonable and more likely to happen.

thats it why dont the both of you just crush my thoughts hopes and dreams

Ok, Fairies don't exist, santa does exist, but he hates you, your the reason your father drinks and your mom doesn't believe you can be anything exept a janitor at a highschool.

now thats just sad attacking another coalition supporter

[Mech-Viper Prime]

I don't see jojo reestablishing the Vanguard as an official group, but he probably would make them more "known" to higher officials and ISS groups as to "turn a blind eye to them". They'd probably even get a bit of funding and possibly some place out in the arm pit of no-where (or perhaps in Lonestar) to conduct magic studies. But they will never be "officially" recognized, and all that I have just stated is what the BEST that could happen. At worse, nothing at all will change. (I doubt he'll hunt the vanguard down).

Interesting thought, I bet if CS had stayed with magic, little Jojo would be one hell of a mage by now.

You're probably right, this sounds more reasonable and more likely to happen.

thats it why dont the both of you just crush my thoughts hopes and dreams

Ok, Fairies don't exist, santa does exist, but he hates you, your the reason your father drinks and your mom doesn't believe you can be anything exept a janitor at a highschool.

now thats just sad attacking another coalition supporter

WURD, you're my bretheren. I'm sorry I turned my back on you when we have the same goals(tear runs down face), I am human too and make mistakes..........You see I'm starting to sound like Prosek now

i know i had the foolish thought we could live side by side with them d-bees and be friends but DarkBrandon showed me the light every peaceful action we do goes nowhere with them you save them they treat you like you just shot one of them, its wasnt the coalition who walked out of that meeting and attack foirst it was them dirty mages and thier d-bees lackeys, if war is what they want then war they will have

[dark brandon]

"To embrace the inhuman is to lose our humanity
To accept the alien is to lose our identity
To use magic is to forsake technology

Magic and the acceptance of the monstrous, alien, and inuman is the poison that eats away at our people.

WE ARE HUMAN! WE ARE THE PEOPLE OF EARTH! THIS IS OUR WORLD! OURS ALONE!"

ALL HAIL EMPEROR PROSEK! THE SAVOIR OF HUMANITY! IN PROSEK WE TRUST!!!!

[grandmaster z0b]

I see all the megacities being wasted and all those people murdered.

Yes! Dunscan will slaughter the stupid, ignorant inhabitants of Chi Town and the FoM will dance on the graves of those moronic enough to side with the CS. All right wing human supremists will die!

yup just like last time, .................no ...........................wait his father tried that and failed pages9-13 FOM

On a side note though: If Duncson does somehow kill Prosek, that would make a good story for Joseph to go after Duncson. Kind of like you killed my father so I kill you, then Joseph does the same thing.....kind of like a family feud. Except Joseph would use the Vanguard to the extreme and be successful.

yup kill his brother, kidnapped his mother , then kill his father Little jojo would make it a point to kill dunscon even if he had to sign treaties with most of the magic zone to do it and odds are most of them would sign a peace treaty with him just to get rid of dunscon

Little JoJo would can definitely pull up more resources/alliances than his father, he's manipulative as hell. He would befriend everybody around the FoM and when he's done crushing the FoM he would then just take out all the D-bee towns he made alliances with.

Plus I'm almost positive JoJo would re-establish the Vanguard and part of the military and even make it bigger.

no i dont know i think he might end up giving in to his mother pleas for peace, besides little jojo is long term planner

Unless the death of her husband by the hand of their D-Bee magic wielding enemies makes her as evil as ever

I say JoJo should conduct some studies to see the population rate of humans are vs d-bees, if waiting means more d-bees to ounumber the humans then he might want to go ahead and continue with the Campaign of Unity.

no because part of the group that saved her was a dragon and some mages, so it might end up with a stronger coalition with magic and d-bees in it and not like the coalition will run out of thing to fight bugs to the north vampires to the south and demons coming out of the rifts, and md the spin master would have a grand old time spinning magic and d-bees into the coalition and yes little jojo could have some of the battle hard vets weeping like babies

If the CS really represented humanity then they should stop wasting man power and resources on futile wars with it's neighbours and instead save itself defending against real enemies like the Xiticix, the Vampire Kingdoms, and the Splugorth.
I believe a North American empire could be quite powerful if the CS and all the smaller kingdoms stopped trying to kill each other and banded together. Now I know that's not going to happen anytime soon, but even if there was some trade of knowledge, technology and skills, that would greatly strengthen North America as a whole.
That's one of the things that really bother me about the CS, by banning books and supressing learning, they are definately not defending humanity's best interest.

[dark brandon]

If the CS really represented humanity then they should stop wasting man power and resources on futile wars with it's neighbours

The wars arn't futile, they are nessissary. Their neighbours make deals with demons and devils. Just look at what tolkeen did in the last war. That's proof that if a mage gets pushed, he will sell his soul. Unlike CS who, even when the chips were down, didn't sell their unborn children for hethonistic monsters.

and instead save itself defending against real enemies like the Xiticix, the Vampire Kingdoms, and the Splugorth.

all in due time...

I believe a North American empire could be quite powerful if the CS and all the smaller kingdoms stopped trying to kill each other and banded together. Now I know that's not going to happen anytime soon, but even if there was some trade of knowledge, technology and skills, that would greatly strengthen North America as a whole.

CS has nothing to gain from anyone. They have the best tech, the best knowledge and the greatest skilled warriors in the land. Only the enemies of the states would be strenghtened.

That's one of the things that really bother me about the CS, by banning books and supressing learning, they are definately not defending humanity's best interest.

A person is not judged by the number of books he's read or knowing what 4x4 equals. it's by their character, their strenght of will and their bravery. CS has all it needs. Everything else just waists time and recourses.

[dark brandon]

Wouldn't it be funny if Prosek turned out to be a shape-shifting D-bee or an android made by ARCHIE

That would defintely be a huge twist.

would be too contrived. Very scooby doo like. And that's just bad. make him have a visit from an angel and repent his ways...now there would be a twist.

[grandmaster z0b]

If the CS really represented humanity then they should stop wasting man power and resources on futile wars with it's neighbours

The wars arn't futile, they are nessissary. Their neighbours make deals with demons and devils. Just look at what tolkeen did in the last war. That's proof that if a mage gets pushed, he will sell his soul. Unlike CS who, even when the chips were down, didn't sell their unborn children for hethonistic monsters.

and instead save itself defending against real enemies like the Xiticix, the Vampire Kingdoms, and the Splugorth.

all in due time...

I believe a North American empire could be quite powerful if the CS and all the smaller kingdoms stopped trying to kill each other and banded together. Now I know that's not going to happen anytime soon, but even if there was some trade of knowledge, technology and skills, that would greatly strengthen North America as a whole.

CS has nothing to gain from anyone. They have the best tech, the best knowledge and the greatest skilled warriors in the land. Only the enemies of the states would be strenghtened.

No they don't, that's ridiculous. Do I have to even mention Triax, or the fact that many d-bees have much better tech.

That's one of the things that really bother me about the CS, by banning books and supressing learning, they are definately not defending humanity's best interest

A person is not judged by the number of books he's read or knowing what 4x4 equals. it's by their character, their strenght of will and their bravery. CS has all it needs. Everything else just waists time and recourses.

Well mindless propaganda aside, a nation with better education is always stronger. I could make many other points but I have little patience for rhetoric.

[grandmaster z0b]

ummmm.....Sparta? a very small number of spartians were able to read, and look at them, they were the best warriors for their timeperiod and location.

Yeah but it was Athens that essentially started western civilization and had the biggest impact on society after that. That was because they encouraged learning and discussion.
So are you trying to suggest that literacy and learning wouldn't improve the nations' technology and therefore military power? I think you'll find that in the modern world the countries with better education have better industry and armies and are therefore more powerful and stable.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

I see all the megacities being wasted and all those people murdered.

Yes! Dunscan will slaughter the stupid, ignorant inhabitants of Chi Town and the FoM will dance on the graves of those moronic enough to side with the CS. All right wing human supremists will die!

yup just like last time, .................no ...........................wait his father tried that and failed pages9-13 FOM

On a side note though: If Duncson does somehow kill Prosek, that would make a good story for Joseph to go after Duncson. Kind of like you killed my father so I kill you, then Joseph does the same thing.....kind of like a family feud. Except Joseph would use the Vanguard to the extreme and be successful.

yup kill his brother, kidnapped his mother , then kill his father Little jojo would make it a point to kill dunscon even if he had to sign treaties with most of the magic zone to do it and odds are most of them would sign a peace treaty with him just to get rid of dunscon

Little JoJo would can definitely pull up more resources/alliances than his father, he's manipulative as hell. He would befriend everybody around the FoM and when he's done crushing the FoM he would then just take out all the D-bee towns he made alliances with.

Plus I'm almost positive JoJo would re-establish the Vanguard and part of the military and even make it bigger.

no i dont know i think he might end up giving in to his mother pleas for peace, besides little jojo is long term planner

Unless the death of her husband by the hand of their D-Bee magic wielding enemies makes her as evil as ever

I say JoJo should conduct some studies to see the population rate of humans are vs d-bees, if waiting means more d-bees to ounumber the humans then he might want to go ahead and continue with the Campaign of Unity.

no because part of the group that saved her was a dragon and some mages, so it might end up with a stronger coalition with magic and d-bees in it and not like the coalition will run out of thing to fight bugs to the north vampires to the south and demons coming out of the rifts, and md the spin master would have a grand old time spinning magic and d-bees into the coalition and yes little jojo could have some of the battle hard vets weeping like babies

If the CS really represented humanity then they should stop wasting man power and resources on futile wars with it's neighbours and instead save itself defending against real enemies like the Xiticix, the Vampire Kingdoms, and the Splugorth.
I believe a North American empire could be quite powerful if the CS and all the smaller kingdoms stopped trying to kill each other and banded together. Now I know that's not going to happen anytime soon, but even if there was some trade of knowledge, technology and skills, that would greatly strengthen North America as a whole.
That's one of the things that really bother me about the CS, by banning books and supressing learning, they are definately not defending humanity's best interest.

you know that could have worked even after the"Great Dunscon" walked out of the meeting with the coalition leaders, but he had to try to conquer North America starting with the coalition and we all know how that turned out

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Stop NEsting
Or I'll do this


SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAM

what act like a spoiled child?

[Guest]

yo..angry...could you please, pretty please edit that....

it's a pain in the ass...really..

[Hystrix]

or could a mod edit it. It's really bad...

[Mech-Viper Prime]

No more Childish then quoting a dozen people in a thread.

a dozen a dozen count again 4 people at most, and please learn to count and get over yourself

[Mech-Viper Prime]

then you ask , and not act like a child
as for page counts and post count i could really careless about both

[dark brandon]

No they don't, that's ridiculous. Do I have to even mention Triax, or the fact that many d-bees have much better tech.

They are currently Trading with other Human kingdoms. Few races in NA offer CS level equipment. Most human nations in NA arn't at war with the CS. It's the bastardization of humanity nations that have nothing to offer.
Whats worse is if they DID, there is probably a good chance they'd have traded to the Naruni. That is just a bad idea all around. By CS being so "human" oriented, they are avoiding a great many problems, such as the naruni problem, and the problem that magic users will turn to demons.

Well mindless propaganda aside, a nation with better education is always stronger. I could make many other points but I have little patience for rhetoric.

It helps. But after watching shows "from tactical to practical" alot of the important things were developed with military use in mind. It helps, but by no means is a nation REQUIRED to have this.

[grandmaster z0b]

Who says the CS doesn't have much better tech than what they currently use?

The books say.

They have all these technical readouts from the Americans and no one else is publically close to them. Triax started trading in America and the CS raised its tech level accordingly with the "New Coalition Army", officially with Triax help (but did it really do much?). I figure the CS has tech equal to or in excess of Triax but they have no real reason to deploy it right now.

The only reason that CS seems close to Triax level tech now is because we haven't had an update like CWC for Triax yet. It would also seem that Triax's ability to produce huge numbers of troops is also vastly ahead of the CS.
What about Naruni? The CS are fools for not trading with them, what army wouldn't buy the most state of the art weapons during a war?

[Scooter the Outlaw]

The only reason that CS seems close to Triax level tech now is because we haven't had an update like CWC for Triax yet. It would also seem that Triax's ability to produce huge numbers of troops is also vastly ahead of the CS.
What about Naruni? The CS are fools for not trading with them, what army wouldn't buy the most state of the art weapons during a war?

I believe that was an ethical issue. I mean, sure, Cyber-Knights would probably be pretty well-off if they went and made friends with super-powerful evil demons, but they don't really play that. Similarly, I doubt the CS is going to buy totally alien equipment. It really doesn't work with their whole M.O.

[dark brandon]

Plus, you don't always end up on the winning side with Naruni. Don't win the war, and are in debt. No problem we'll just sent 10K plus Repo-bots to take what we need.

And this is where people get stupid. They make trade agreements for more than they can afford, lose a war, or even if they win the war, if it was at a high cost, they can't pay and they end up lossing even more (like being sold into slavery).

[dark brandon]

It's funny how everybodies like "why don't you just get all your weapons from Naruni", Naruni doesn't care about your country or your cause. They'll fininish selling you 15 kazzillion dollars worth of stuff, then cross the border and sell the same stuff to your enemy.

Either way they win. Smart people don't deal with them on a national scale.

and then when everything is said and done, they'll come to collect, you won't have the money and you'll be visited by Repo Bots.

[Killer Cyborg]

Ordinary bots spend their lives trying to avoid extraordinary situations.
A Repo-Bot spends its life getting IN to extraordinary situations!

[cornholioprime]

All the books say is that the CS library was officially "destroyed" and that it contained examples of technology that were above and beyond everyone else on the continent. Where is it specifically stated that the CS doesn't have a technological reservoir somewhere?

Many if not most of the Books say that while the Info in the Library could someday be used to make better Tech, the CS has ALREADY unearthed most of the Golden Age Stuff (remember, there is almost NOTHING completely innovative/new in the CS Arsenal)......

[Mech-Viper Prime]

All the books say is that the CS library was officially "destroyed" and that it contained examples of technology that were above and beyond everyone else on the continent. Where is it specifically stated that the CS doesn't have a technological reservoir somewhere?

Many if not most of the Books say that while the Info in the Library could someday be used to make better Tech, the CS has ALREADY unearthed most of the Golden Age Stuff (remember, there is almost NOTHING completely innovative/new in the CS Arsenal)......

hey like they say if its not broke

[dark brandon]

All the books say is that the CS library was officially "destroyed" and that it contained examples of technology that were above and beyond everyone else on the continent. Where is it specifically stated that the CS doesn't have a technological reservoir somewhere?

I actually don't think they destroyed the library, but put the books somewhere else to where only the high command can get too it. Something like the Black Vault but for books.

Agreed. Even Erin Tarn believes this. She's not stupid, CS leadership is not stupid, so more than likely they have a Black library somewhere.

[Jesterzzn]

All the books say is that the CS library was officially "destroyed" and that it contained examples of technology that were above and beyond everyone else on the continent. Where is it specifically stated that the CS doesn't have a technological reservoir somewhere?

I actually don't think they destroyed the library, but put the books somewhere else to where only the high command can get too it. Something like the Black Vault but for books.

That is so racist. Would you like it if I went around calling you "white-stormy"?

[cornholioprime]

All the books say is that the CS library was officially "destroyed" and that it contained examples of technology that were above and beyond everyone else on the continent. Where is it specifically stated that the CS doesn't have a technological reservoir somewhere?

I actually don't think they destroyed the library, but put the books somewhere else to where only the high command can get too it. Something like the Black Vault but for books.

That is so racist. Would you like it if I went around calling you "white-stormy"?

Wfat he said.

The Coalition High Command actually calls it the AFRICAN-AMERICAN Vault!!!!

[Kelorin]

Cripes, I just read through the entire thread. I wish I got in on the debate earlier, but I didn't so I'm not going quote specific quotes, but instead offer a few thoughts of my own.

On the Question of "Do I support the Coalition?”
Yes, they know the situation out there is bad, and humanity's chips are down. They are making a stand, and strangely they don't find it necessary to crawl into bed with something that just slithered out of a rift.

On the Question of "Is the Coalition evil":
Yes, as a matter of fact they are. Without recapping the entire thread, they do some pretty crappy things. If you were in same place, you would too.

But consider this:
The Coalition is perhaps one of the best RPG examples I can think of a "necessary evil". All the liberal, pot-smoking, hand-holding, kumbaya-singing, brotherhood and friendship in the world isn’t going to mean jack when the wolves are at your door.

Fact of the matter is in Rifts, under a worst case scenario if somehow all the Fennodi, Elves, Dwarfs, Naruni were suddenly killed off in single stroke, there would still be, far across the Megaverse more of those races. Rifts Earth is not their homeworld. You can't say the same thing about Rifts Earth Humans. (Yes, yes I know there are humans in many, many other dimensions, but strictly speaking they would be considered D-Bee's too on Rifts Earth).

Also, the CS is evil no doubt about that, and are the one of the 'bad guys', but you know what? Communist Russia, Nazi Germany, and Imperial Japan where at one time or another were the evil, bad guys. They got over it. Eventually, the CS will too. They do what they do now, because they believe they must, so in a future, safer world, their sons and daughters won't have to.

A D-Bee villager looking at a Coalition soldier feels fear, but it is a known tangible fear. The worst that the soldier can do is in plain sight, in the armor he wears, and in the rifle he carries. It is not hidden, and it can be overcome. A Coalition soldier (without Dog Pack support) looking at a ‘harmless’ D-Bee woman or child feels fear too. Fear of the unknown. Is this really what it appears? Is she a mage? A psychic? Is this child really a child? Or is it a dragon or a familiar, or a demon metamorphosized into human form? They appear unarmed, but are they really? Is she mind-controlling me? Is what I’m seeing an illusion or the truth? After watching a couple of your mates getting torn to ribbons by ‘harmless, unarmed’ D-Bee women and children, you would very rapidly adopt a shoot first, and don’t bother asking questions policy too. For that matter, look at actual, real-life Coalition soldiers in Iraq. The never know where death is going to come for them either. All things considered I think they’re showing an amazing amount of restraint.

Therein lies the root of the Coalition’s evil. It is an evil born out of fear, and ignorance of the unknown. Because it is a human fear, an understandable evil, this alone makes the Coalition the better hope for humanity in North America. For, in time as humans, they can change, and learn and grow. Sure, it won’t happen soon, but it did happen for Germany, and Japan, and Russia, as someone else stated, these types of governments eventually collapse, but in their place something better can come about. The real evils in Rifts aren’t the Coalition, but the Splugorth, or the Lord of the Deep, or Nxla, or demons, some factions of the Federation of Magic. They are worse, much worse, because they have full knowledge of what they are doing, and embrace evil anyway. Many do so, not because of fear, or ignorance, or desperation, but simply for pure enjoyment or cruelty. In time, the Proseks may come and go, and there may be a change of doctrine and more liberal attitudes towards magic and D-Bees, but do you see Nxla or the Lord of the Deep turning over a new leaf, or changing their ways? No, well neither do I.

Ask any soldier, or general or king or warlord, or even read a little from the Sun Tzu's The Art of War, if you choose the option to go to war, it is your moral responsibility to do everything you can to ensure the war is over as quickly as possible. A long drawn out war, just drains the nation, wastes it's young, depletes its resources, and taxes it citizens. As bad as things got for the US during World War I, II, Korea, Vietnam, etc. The soldiers fighting those wars knew that there was a light at the end of the tunnel. Eventually, people would die, but at the end of the day, the war itself would be over, an they would go home, and after they retired, their son's, and their son's wouldn't be there fighting the same darn fight over the same patch of dirt 20 years from that day. I was watching a war documentary talking about some of the sick, inhuman things American and Japanese soldiers inflicted upon each other during the battles for the Pacific islands. We’re talking some seriously depraved stuff, and these were fellow humans. Imagine what they’d do to an actual inhuman enemy. But still, all the combatants involved felt sure that eventually the war would end, and of the suffering would be over. Ask a vet, how he would feel, if he was still there fighting over the beaches at Normandy, or the Jungle of Vietnam, but worse, he knew his kids, and his kid’s kids were out there fighting for the same objective day after day with no end in sight. The supernatural intelligences aren’t leaving, and they aren’t signing any peace treaties. Where does that leave the CS is 200 years?

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Cripes, I just read through the entire thread. I wish I got in on the debate earlier, but I didn't so I'm not going quote specific quotes, but instead offer a few thoughts of my own.

On the Question of "Do I support the Coalition?”
Yes, they know the situation out there is bad, and humanity's chips are down. They are making a stand, and strangely they don't find it necessary to crawl into bed with something that just slithered out of a rift.

On the Question of "Is the Coalition evil":
Yes, as a matter of fact they are. Without recapping the entire thread, they do some pretty crappy things. If you were in same place, you would too.

But consider this:
The Coalition is perhaps one of the best RPG examples I can think of a "necessary evil". All the liberal, pot-smoking, hand-holding, kumbaya-singing, brotherhood and friendship in the world isn’t going to mean jack when the wolves are at your door.

Fact of the matter is in Rifts, under a worst case scenario if somehow all the Fennodi, Elves, Dwarfs, Naruni were suddenly killed off in single stroke, there would still be, far across the Megaverse more of those races. Rifts Earth is not their homeworld. You can't say the same thing about Rifts Earth Humans. (Yes, yes I know there are humans in many, many other dimensions, but strictly speaking they would be considered D-Bee's too on Rifts Earth).

Also, the CS is evil no doubt about that, and are the one of the 'bad guys', but you know what? Communist Russia, Nazi Germany, and Imperial Japan where at one time or another were the evil, bad guys. They got over it. Eventually, the CS will too. They do what they do now, because they believe they must, so in a future, safer world, their sons and daughters won't have to.

A D-Bee villager looking at a Coalition soldier feels fear, but it is a known tangible fear. The worst that the soldier can do is in plain sight, in the armor he wears, and in the rifle he carries. It is not hidden, and it can be overcome. A Coalition soldier (without Dog Pack support) looking at a ‘harmless’ D-Bee woman or child feels fear too. Fear of the unknown. Is this really what it appears? Is she a mage? A psychic? Is this child really a child? Or is it a dragon or a familiar, or a demon metamorphosized into human form? They appear unarmed, but are they really? Is she mind-controlling me? Is what I’m seeing an illusion or the truth? After watching a couple of your mates getting torn to ribbons by ‘harmless, unarmed’ D-Bee women and children, you would very rapidly adopt a shoot first, and don’t bother asking questions policy too. For that matter, look at actual, real-life Coalition soldiers in Iraq. The never know where death is going to come for them either. All things considered I think they’re showing an amazing amount of restraint.

Therein lies the root of the Coalition’s evil. It is an evil born out of fear, and ignorance of the unknown. Because it is a human fear, an understandable evil, this alone makes the Coalition the better hope for humanity in North America. For, in time as humans, they can change, and learn and grow. Sure, it won’t happen soon, but it did happen for Germany, and Japan, and Russia, as someone else stated, these types of governments eventually collapse, but in their place something better can come about. The real evils in Rifts aren’t the Coalition, but the Splugorth, or the Lord of the Deep, or Nxla, or demons, some factions of the Federation of Magic. They are worse, much worse, because they have full knowledge of what they are doing, and embrace evil anyway. Many do so, not because of fear, or ignorance, or desperation, but simply for pure enjoyment or cruelty. In time, the Proseks may come and go, and there may be a change of doctrine and more liberal attitudes towards magic and D-Bees, but do you see Nxla or the Lord of the Deep turning over a new leaf, or changing their ways? No, well neither do I.

Ask any soldier, or general or king or warlord, or even read a little from the Sun Tzu's The Art of War, if you choose the option to go to war, it is your moral responsibility to do everything you can to ensure the war is over as quickly as possible. A long drawn out war, just drains the nation, wastes it's young, depletes its resources, and taxes it citizens. As bad as things got for the US during World War I, II, Korea, Vietnam, etc. The soldiers fighting those wars knew that there was a light at the end of the tunnel. Eventually, people would die, but at the end of the day, the war itself would be over, an they would go home, and after they retired, their son's, and their son's wouldn't be there fighting the same darn fight over the same patch of dirt 20 years from that day. I was watching a war documentary talking about some of the sick, inhuman things American and Japanese soldiers inflicted upon each other during the battles for the Pacific islands. We’re talking some seriously depraved stuff, and these were fellow humans. Imagine what they’d do to an actual inhuman enemy. But still, all the combatants involved felt sure that eventually the war would end, and of the suffering would be over. Ask a vet, how he would feel, if he was still there fighting over the beaches at Normandy, or the Jungle of Vietnam, but worse, he knew his kids, and his kid’s kids were out there fighting for the same objective day after day with no end in sight. The supernatural intelligences aren’t leaving, and they aren’t signing any peace treaties. Where does that leave the CS is 200 years?

wow

[Mech-Viper Prime]

hey lets not forget the Darkhounds , dunscon failed attempt to turn dog boys against the coalition, since most of protect or fight along side of the coaliton when any of dunscon forces show up and coalition solidiers view them as good luck