supersoldiers

[dark brandon]

You have successfully swayed my thoughts, I actually think they might be opposed to this. Especially since Emperor Prosek likes all the money put towards developments of bigger, better, faster, more powerful war machinges(PA, tanks, ect) and not really much testing besides dog boys who have proved themselves irreplaceble.

The emperor would be pleased.

You sir, are a credit to your human people!

[Defender_X]

Okay lets assume that Bradford can convince Prosek. I don't have the issue, but this is just based on what I know about both men. Odds are good that the 'production' model will be different from the 'prototype' and 'pre-production' models of supersolider. Better indoctrination and maybe toned down in certain areas to reduce cost and increase control over them. Something that dangerous turning against them is the last thing the emperor and the general staff want.

[DBX]

considering how much **** the good doctor has done unofficially, it is a surprise he is still there.

i don't think in official new books he could get away with doing anything outside the limits set to him by the regime. that will be ***** even by book stds.

sooner or later Lonestar will rise, and either it will go its own way or CS will take over, and there will be no doctor bradford.

[Thinyser]

Janissary Project from Rifter #28 starts on p65 OCC starts on page 77...
Geniticaly altered humans with:
--4d4x10MDC +10MDC/lvl
--supernatural PS and PE
--Autododge
--+2 attacks per melee
--clock-calender and gyro-compass implants
--Could live up to 200 years without medical assistance

Badasses to be sure

How many 1d6 dice do they roll for PS, PP, and PE???

If somebody could post the other specs about them I'd appreciate it.

Thanks.

Sorry man its against the rules of the boards to post such specifics

[Thinyser]

Janissary Project from Rifter #28 starts on p65 OCC starts on page 77...
Geniticaly altered humans with:
--4d4x10MDC +10MDC/lvl
--supernatural PS and PE
--Autododge
--+2 attacks per melee
--clock-calender and gyro-compass implants
--Could live up to 200 years without medical assistance

Badasses to be sure

How many 1d6 dice do they roll for PS, PP, and PE???

If somebody could post the other specs about them I'd appreciate it.

Thanks.

Sorry man its against the rules of the boards to post such specifics

PM's work great

I need to find this book **heads over to classifieds**

Rifter 28 is still in print so just order it from Palladium

[Kelorin]

I'm going to repeat a post, or at least some of the arguements and comments I used on the Sexism in the CS thread because they seem fairly relevant in this thread as well.

A lot of this leads into another major CS hang-up - human purity.

The CS has at disposal the capacity to create nearly limitless numbers of perfect cloned human embryoes, fast-grown, and gene modified for better combat survivability, enhanced strength and reflexes, yet they focus on external augmentation, artificial contructs, AI systems, powered armor and cybernetics. They even used to have taboos about juicers, and limit gene modification to non-humans (dogboys etc.).

Given the choice, based on their previous track record, the CS would very much prefer to increase their population the 'old-fashioned' way. For this reason, like any good socialist state on a war footing, they will discourage women from joining the military, but not forbid it. They will have lots of propaganda promoting 'traditional' gender roles, and the 'vital' contribution women are uniquely suited to facilitate in the great CS war machine - babies.

Put simply, the CS is extremely uncomfortable about anything 'non-human'. This discomfort extends to some degree to Psi-Stalkers, Juicers, and Crazies. Just the idea of Janissaries will seem abhorent to the majority of the CS populace.

Janissaries at a very basic level go completely against the few high ideals the CS has. Namely humanity and the survival of humanity. If things go so badly for the CS, that the CS has no choice but to resort to gene-modification of this nature, then they have already lost.

Then there is a control issue. A Skelebot can be de-activated or remote detonated. A SAMAS pilot can take of the suit. A Borg can retire with non-military grade cybernetics. What do you do with a Janissary when you don't need him anymore?

What happens if the Janissaries fighting in the name of normal humans come to the realization that they are a superior life-form than the weaklings they defend?

[Kalinda]

I'm going to repeat a post, or at least some of the arguements and comments I used on the Sexism in the CS thread because they seem fairly relevant in this thread as well.

A lot of this leads into another major CS hang-up - human purity.

The CS has at disposal the capacity to create nearly limitless numbers of perfect cloned human embryoes, fast-grown, and gene modified for better combat survivability, enhanced strength and reflexes, yet they focus on external augmentation, artificial contructs, AI systems, powered armor and cybernetics. They even used to have taboos about juicers, and limit gene modification to non-humans (dogboys etc.).

Given the choice, based on their previous track record, the CS would very much prefer to increase their population the 'old-fashioned' way. For this reason, like any good socialist state on a war footing, they will discourage women from joining the military, but not forbid it. They will have lots of propaganda promoting 'traditional' gender roles, and the 'vital' contribution women are uniquely suited to facilitate in the great CS war machine - babies.

Put simply, the CS is extremely uncomfortable about anything 'non-human'. This discomfort extends to some degree to Psi-Stalkers, Juicers, and Crazies. Just the idea of Janissaries will seem abhorent to the majority of the CS populace.

Janissaries at a very basic level go completely against the few high ideals the CS has. Namely humanity and the survival of humanity. If things go so badly for the CS, that the CS has no choice but to resort to gene-modification of this nature, then they have already lost.

Then there is a control issue. A Skelebot can be de-activated or remote detonated. A SAMAS pilot can take of the suit. A Borg can retire with non-military grade cybernetics. What do you do with a Janissary when you don't need him anymore?

What happens if the Janissaries fighting in the name of normal humans come to the realization that they are a superior life-form than the weaklings they defend?

Well put.

I think the only reason that the CS leadership puts up with Dog boys is their incredible usefulness, coupled with the fact that they 'know their place.'

Prosek would never OK the creation of a race of super soldiers who saw normal humans as inferior.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

I'm going to repeat a post, or at least some of the arguements and comments I used on the Sexism in the CS thread because they seem fairly relevant in this thread as well.

A lot of this leads into another major CS hang-up - human purity.

The CS has at disposal the capacity to create nearly limitless numbers of perfect cloned human embryoes, fast-grown, and gene modified for better combat survivability, enhanced strength and reflexes, yet they focus on external augmentation, artificial contructs, AI systems, powered armor and cybernetics. They even used to have taboos about juicers, and limit gene modification to non-humans (dogboys etc.).

Given the choice, based on their previous track record, the CS would very much prefer to increase their population the 'old-fashioned' way. For this reason, like any good socialist state on a war footing, they will discourage women from joining the military, but not forbid it. They will have lots of propaganda promoting 'traditional' gender roles, and the 'vital' contribution women are uniquely suited to facilitate in the great CS war machine - babies.

Put simply, the CS is extremely uncomfortable about anything 'non-human'. This discomfort extends to some degree to Psi-Stalkers, Juicers, and Crazies. Just the idea of Janissaries will seem abhorent to the majority of the CS populace.

Janissaries at a very basic level go completely against the few high ideals the CS has. Namely humanity and the survival of humanity. If things go so badly for the CS, that the CS has no choice but to resort to gene-modification of this nature, then they have already lost.

Then there is a control issue. A Skelebot can be de-activated or remote detonated. A SAMAS pilot can take of the suit. A Borg can retire with non-military grade cybernetics. What do you do with a Janissary when you don't need him anymore?

What happens if the Janissaries fighting in the name of normal humans come to the realization that they are a superior life-form than the weaklings they defend?

Well put.

I think the only reason that the CS leadership puts up with Dog boys is their incredible usefulness, coupled with the fact that they 'know their place.'

Prosek would never OK the creation of a race of super soldiers who saw normal humans as inferior.

true but he did approve it, besides i think a couple would care about the lesser humans

[dark brandon]

true but he did approve it, besides i think a couple would care about the lesser humans

well, that's where the disagreement lies.

Since it's a rifter article, it doesn't mean he "did" approve it. The story may say so, but they are not canon, so as with any rifter a GM is allowed to ignore it if they wish.

the disagreement is basically "should" they become canon. Which I say with a resounding "no". The story given and the reason why he approved it does not really follow with the world as is as they were poor reasons why.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

true but he did approve it, besides i think a couple would care about the lesser humans

well, that's where the disagreement lies.

Since it's a rifter article, it doesn't mean he "did" approve it. The story may say so, but they are not canon, so as with any rifter a GM is allowed to ignore it if they wish.

the disagreement is basically "should" they become canon. Which I say with a resounding "no". The story given and the reason why he approved it does not really follow with the world as is as they were poor reasons why.

thats the problem some see the rifters as canon and some dont, so that in lies the problem

[dark brandon]

thats the problem some see the rifters as canon and some dont, so that in lies the problem

The rifter is not canon. One could use it in their games if they wish, but they are not official, such as PPE channeling. I believe it was pretty obvious that anything printed in the rifter was for the fans, but not part of the actual "megaverse" world.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

thats the problem some see the rifters as canon and some dont, so that in lies the problem

The rifter is not canon. One could use it in their games if they wish, but they are not official, such as PPE channeling. I believe it was pretty obvious that anything printed in the rifter was for the fans, but not part of the actual "megaverse" world.

notice more and more canon poping up in rifter

[Kalinda]

Mech-viper wrote:

true but he did approve it, besides i think a couple would care about the lesser humans

Read the article again, Prosek approved work on Project Darwin, an effort to improve humans to make them more healthy and disease resistant. Bradford long ago went past his mandate and is operating in secret, hoping to prove the value of his work to Prosek by fielding an army of his creations.

[The Galactus Kid]

Kalinda is right.

[DBX]

thats the problem some see the rifters as canon and some dont, so that in lies the problem

The rifter is not canon. One could use it in their games if they wish, but they are not official, such as PPE channeling. I believe it was pretty obvious that anything printed in the rifter was for the fans, but not part of the actual "megaverse" world.

i thought that it was canon that the material in the rifter wasn't canon/official material,
unless there was a great big statement in the article saying this article/material is official/canon. there have been several articles like this in the rifter.



a few articles/material in the rifter i believe have been later turned into official material in books released by palladium. but while they were in the rifter they were still not canon material. (not to sure on this though).

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Mech-viper wrote:

true but he did approve it, besides i think a couple would care about the lesser humans

Read the article again, Prosek approved work on Project Darwin, an effort to improve humans to make them more healthy and disease resistant. Bradford long ago went past his mandate and is operating in secret, hoping to prove the value of his work to Prosek by fielding an army of his creations.

please its still project Darwin, just under a new name

[Kalinda]

Mech-viper wrote:

true but he did approve it, besides i think a couple would care about the lesser humans

Read the article again, Prosek approved work on Project Darwin, an effort to improve humans to make them more healthy and disease resistant. Bradford long ago went past his mandate and is operating in secret, hoping to prove the value of his work to Prosek by fielding an army of his creations.

please its still project Darwin, just under a new name

are you joking? Bradford sold the project by saying that he wanted to work on making humans more healthy. he never said word one about a race of MD super soldiers with supernatural attributes. And if it's OK with Prosek, then why is bradford hiding it until he can deploy his army? Because he knows prosek will shut it down if he finds out about it.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Mech-viper wrote:

true but he did approve it, besides i think a couple would care about the lesser humans

Read the article again, Prosek approved work on Project Darwin, an effort to improve humans to make them more healthy and disease resistant. Bradford long ago went past his mandate and is operating in secret, hoping to prove the value of his work to Prosek by fielding an army of his creations.

please its still project Darwin, just under a new name

are you joking? Bradford sold the project by saying that he wanted to work on making humans more healthy. he never said word one about a race of MD super soldiers with supernatural attributes. And if it's OK with Prosek, then why is bradford hiding it until he can deploy his army? Because he knows prosek will shut it down if he finds out about it.

yeah but what Bradford said and did are two different things,but most of the powers of the Janissaries were done under project Darwin but it wasnt until karl want a xiticix eater old bradford get the last piece he was looking for and closed project Darwin and opened project janissary.

[dark brandon]

thats the problem some see the rifters as canon and some dont, so that in lies the problem

The rifter is not canon. One could use it in their games if they wish, but they are not official, such as PPE channeling. I believe it was pretty obvious that anything printed in the rifter was for the fans, but not part of the actual "megaverse" world.

notice more and more canon poping up in rifter

Oh, definatly. Won't deny that more and more canon is poping up. But it's not canon until it's in a world/source book. This is one article I personally wouldn't want to see made canon.

[dark brandon]

a few articles/material in the rifter i believe have been later turned into official material in books released by palladium. but while they were in the rifter they were still not canon material. (not to sure on this though).

This is correct. But unless otherwise stated, material in Rifter is not canon.

IE: Mages in Rifts books will not have a section called "PPE channeling ability: a total of 55 per action". There are possibly other examples, but This is the most perdominate one I can think of.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

thats the problem some see the rifters as canon and some dont, so that in lies the problem

The rifter is not canon. One could use it in their games if they wish, but they are not official, such as PPE channeling. I believe it was pretty obvious that anything printed in the rifter was for the fans, but not part of the actual "megaverse" world.

notice more and more canon poping up in rifter

Oh, definatly. Won't deny that more and more canon is poping up. But it's not canon until it's in a world/source book. This is one article I personally wouldn't want to see made canon.

true, get the feeling like they are some bastardized version of judge dread from the crappy movie with the same title

[dark brandon]

true, get the feeling like they are some bastardized version of judge dread from the crappy movie with the same title

I just feel they are too far removed from what CS means and stands for to be useable. I'm not saying CS are perfectly honorable, but the reasons given for why they are in the army, why prosek oked their production is just too contrived to really accept it.

I probably wouldn't let any PC ever play one unless it's a high end game (and then I'd have to butcher them), and while the other GM's in my group would use them as villains, I wouldn't unless they were villains from somewhere else (they wouldn't be CS creations)

[glitterboy2098]

THIRD, as a side tangent, what, exactly, is so "poor" about their Story Line??? Seems to be essentially the SAME story as the Dog Boys or almost anyhting else to come out of Lone Star (Bradford finds something that makes Humans better, then Splices it in)...........

except that, as of the lone star book, Bradford couldn't create psychics without out some major side effects (Psi-X aliens)......yet Jan's are major psychics

except that MDC nature and supernatural Regeneration is a response to high PPE in the enviroment, and it took a Lazlo research team years, a rare magic TW Microscope to figure out why, and even then the method used required a "time freeze" spell which made genetic engineering impossible. and without the spell, the genetic code degrades in hours. (Blueprint of a Dragon, RIFTER #21) it is specified that this extends to other suprnatural species, even ones like the Sea Titan .....Yet jan's have MDC nature and uber-regeneration traits, from a mere "splicing of supernatural DNA"
even the Xiticix killer required xiticix DNA to do, and got its toughness from an ugly tough, armored skin. not the supernatural way Jan's have.



sticking to Canon, Jan's should have been more like Khan from Star Trek, and less like Superman from DC Comics.

[DBX]

THIRD, as a side tangent, what, exactly, is so "poor" about their Story Line??? Seems to be essentially the SAME story as the Dog Boys or almost anyhting else to come out of Lone Star (Bradford finds something that makes Humans better, then Splices it in)...........

except that, as of the lone star book, Bradford couldn't create psychics without out some major side effects (Psi-X aliens)......yet Jan's are major psychics

except that MDC nature and supernatural Regeneration is a response to high PPE in the enviroment, and it took a Lazlo research team years, a rare magic TW Microscope to figure out why, and even then the method used required a "time freeze" spell which made genetic engineering impossible. and without the spell, the genetic code degrades in hours. (Blueprint of a Dragon, RIFTER #21) it is specified that this extends to other suprnatural species, even ones like the Sea Titan .....Yet jan's have MDC nature and uber-regeneration traits, from a mere "splicing of supernatural DNA"
even the Xiticix killer required xiticix DNA to do, and got its toughness from an ugly tough, armored skin. not the supernatural way Jan's have.



sticking to Canon, Jan's should have been more like Khan from Star Trek, and less like Superman from DC Comics.

Doc Bradford has been able to add supernatural material to his ****!!!!!!!!

that is something the genesplicers have trouble doing. they want to experiment on supernatural ******* now.
the've just managed to do something with brodkils's and possibly some of the slaves put through gun brother enhancement could possibly be supernatural.

that is about it? in the books i have most of their experiments are normal species, like humans,elves,dwarves,animals. not to many supernatual creatures

so if this is something difficulty for Genesplicers to do?
how can doc bradford do it, just because he feels like doing it