Ultimate Rifts

[MikePGS]

Just out of curiousity, what revisions would all of you like to see? Personally, if they redid the skills system (IE had something that let you pick specific skills, and choose which ones you level up with xp... it doesen't quite make sense that skills you never use still advance just because the player is more experienced) integrated PPE channeling, and messed with the Save vs Magic so its more appropriate to how powerfull magic is "supposed to be" well... i think rifts would be perfect at that point... well mostly... but that of course is just my opinion... any other suggestions?

[Killer Cyborg]

(From the Rifts 2.0 thread)

Should Palladium Books revamp the whole system?

Why not? They're practically there already...

I don't expect them to make all the changes that I would, but it would be nice if they would just revise the core book to include all the many, many, many, many changes to the game that they have made over the years.
And clean up some mistakes, and word everything clearer, and use examples for everything.

What would you change?

A LOT. Too much to list here.

Off the top of my head...

1. Drop the damage for nearly everything. Power creep has gotten out of hand. I'd reset the power levels for everything to be more in line with the stuff in the main book unless it had a good reason for being better (made by aliens, etc.)

2. More SDC armor, weapons, animals, and monsters. One of the reasons for power creep is that people want to feel powerful, but that's absurd considering how powerful even a Wilderness Scout with basic gear is. Rifts needs much more low-powered stuff, if only to provide a measuring stick for how powerful the PCs are. I'd also toss in more OCCs that are SDC with no initial MD capabilities. Hedge Mages, Commoners, Farmers, Mechanics, etc. Players probably wouldn't want to play these classes much, but that's fine; they'd be the measuring stick for the standard NPC on Rifts Earth.

3. Elaborate a LOT on the effects of MDC and Mega-damage.

4. Revise the rules for attributes. First of all, I'd completely ditch the entire Supernatural/Robotic/Insect/Extraordinary Strength crap and stick to one category. If you want to inflict megadamage, you need a REALLY high strength score. Second, I'd have penalties for low attributes. There is no reason why a character with an IQ of 3 should be as good at math as a character with an IQ of 15. Which brings me to the third change; I'd start the attribute bonuses at 14 and the penalties at 8.
Finally, some skills would get bonuses from attributes other than IQ.

5. Expand on the rules regarding SDC. Bullets, knives, and other sources of lethal damage should go straight to HP and bypass SDC. Since this would likely start a bit outcry, I'd allow some sort of save when you take damage of this sort; if you make the save, then the damage comes off your SDC instead of HP.
Also, I'd take a page from AD&D's book and put in a note that HP and SDC represent not only life force and toughness, but also exertion and luck.

6. Vehicle mounted weapons would either do more damage than small-arms, or they would be able to fire bursts/sprays.
Or both.
Also, vehicles would generally have a LOT more MDC.

7. Diagrams for every vehicle showing how to enter and exit it and where the weapons are.

8. Psionics would be subject to the same boost that magic is when you are near a ley line or nexus, and the psychic could suck ISP off the ley line in the same manner that mages suck PPE.

9. Non-environmental armor would have an optional AR listed.

10. I'd fix the burst/spray rules.

11. I'd explain the different Rates of Fire.

12. Every weapon would list the WP needed to use it.

13. Modern Weapons would get PP bonuses to strike. The base number needed to hit a target with a ranged weapon would be 10. More for moving targets.

14. I'd also have a chart showing all combat modifiers for conditiong (fog, target size, etc, etc.)

15. I would change things from being nuclear powered to being run off of cold fusion (or some other power source that people wouldn't pick to death).

16. I would list rules for radiation poisoning in case anybody was exposed to radiation.

17. I would update the missile damages to make actual sense.

18. Anybody in body armor who is hit by MD impact weapons like railgun rounds would take SDC damage from the impact, and there would be a significant chance of knockdown

19. I would fix the spell casting rules, and I would de-munchkinize most of the spells from FoM.

20. Spells and psychic powers would be able to be pumped up with more PPE. The damage for Call Lightning would be 1d6 MD per level per 15 PPE, for example. I'd also have rules for bursts/sprays (or their equivilant) with spells and psionics. (and, for that matter, for melee)

21. I would come up with some sort of decent grappling rules.

22. I would come up with rules for skill contests and attribute contests.

23. I would come up with multi-classing rules.

24. I would distinguish between RCC and races. Also between RCCs and PCCs. I would also come up with specific rules for races who wish to take an OCC instead of their normal RCC.

25. I would change the description of Time Slip to make sense.

26. I would upgrade everything to include the two attacks for living.

27. I would scrap the ROF for bows and other certain weapons and base everything off of melee attacks.

28. I would write the entire book from scratch, with no cut and pasting. Then I would spellcheck and edit the hell out of it.

29. I would reset Rifts Earth back to the way it was in the first few books, with Atlantis as the height of magical and technological power on Rifts Earth (with the exception of the Naruni and a few other alien powers scattered around). Books that don't fit in with the view presented in these books (like Japan and New West) would be redesignated as Dimension Books. That way the cool things in them could exist without infringing upon the coolness of having an open frontier of unexplored, hostile wilderness cover most of Rifts Earth.

30. The CS would have the best human made gear on the planet. Not necessarily in every area... Wilk's can still rule lasers, the NGR can have their areas of expertise, etc.... but the CS would overall be the best.

31. I would reset the timeline back to 101 PA. I would release every world book as set in that time period. I would release periodic Timeline Books that would update what was going on everywhere. This would make it much easier to set games in specific times. Many Sourcebooks would be set in a specific time period (like the Mechanoids, for example).

32. I would explain how the C-12 works.

33. I would have rules for how long a character can stay in armor before suffering penalties, and I would have penalties for sleeping in armor.

34. Rune Weapons would once again be the most powerful magic items on the planet. If Technowizardy ever surpassed Rune Magic, then I would make an extraordinarily big deal about it.

35. I would have a heck of a lot more information on rifts.

36. I would have detailed rules on TW Device creation.

37. I would never, anywhere in the book, have the phrase "If you don't like the rules, change them" or the phrase "all rules are optional."
Anybody who doesn't already know this about every game doesn't deserve to know it.

38. I would post the new book in PDA format online. This would help keep the old fans who were ticked off at such a radical revision, and it would help interest new customers. If they get the main book for free electronically and they like it, then they will likely buy a hardcopy of the book later and they would most likely buy plenty of worldbooks and sourcebooks.

39. I would include rules for using lead minis.

40. Psychics would get a Psi-Strength bonus based on their level and their ME.

41. Spell duration and range would be increased to match the boost in power that magic gets on Rifts Earth.

42. I would rule that only Crazies who bought cheap MOM implants actually have large knobs sticking out of their heads.

43. I would design some basic Magic Armor that looked like the standard Linewalker outfit from the art. Ditto with Techno-Wizard flight jackets.

44. I would have a map of every ley line in North America. Every worldbook would have a map of all the ley lines in that region.

45. I would allow anybody to learn the WP Paired Firearms skill if they spent enough skill points on it.

46. I would list penalties for using your off hand.

47. Every skill would explain the circumstances in which you might need to roll a skill check.

48. The insanity tables would be updated to fit Rifts Earth better.

49. I would describe the basic life that goes on in Chi-Town and other CS cities, as well as the average life that goes on in a normal wilderness town.

50. Explosives (including missiles) would damage everything in their blast area. So if your character gets caught in a blast, each section of your armor would take damage as would any weapon you have drawn. I would also include a method where large targets take more damage from explosives and burst/sprays than small targets do.


That's all that springs to mind for now.

Edit:
51. Make a new GM's Screen or two that has updated charts and tables on it to consolidate the rules into one easy place.
(as per Scooter the Outlaw's suggestion)

[MikePGS]

Doh i didn't see that thread... my apologies... later

[Killer Cyborg]

Doh i didn't see that thread... my apologies... later

No need to apologize...
I don't mind discussing things again.

[Josh Sinsapaugh]

Just out of curiousity, what revisions would all of you like to see? Personally, if they redid the skills system (IE had something that let you pick specific skills, and choose which ones you level up with xp... it doesen't quite make sense that skills you never use still advance just because the player is more experienced) integrated PPE channeling, and messed with the Save vs Magic so its more appropriate to how powerfull magic is "supposed to be" well... i think rifts would be perfect at that point... well mostly... but that of course is just my opinion... any other suggestions?

Well, most people I know always assumed that the player would be doing certain skills on moments when there was a time elapsation and that is why they all grow in experience.

If a character has the "Naval History" skill then he or she is interested in Naval History and is probably doing a little studying when possible.

[Danger]

Damn good list. Don't think I've seen that one before. Thanks for sharing, KC.

[Dr. Doom III]

Just out of curiousity, what revisions would all of you like to see?

None.

[Dead Boy]

Just out of curiousity, what revisions would all of you like to see?

I like to see the how issue of movement finally addressed on a melee to melee level (or similar). Sure, I have house rules that work pretty well, but they're House Rules, not official.

I think the entire lift/carry/throw rules should be re-done so they're realistic for normals, more fantastic for the supernatural at the higher ends, and so bionics and robotics are competitive with the supernatural.

Chiefly among the revisions, I'd REALLY like to see a final and definitive set of rules for all the various Rates of Fire. Even if Kev had to take the drastic step of having to take a few pages to re-list every weapon ever made just so it can have a proper and non-ambiguitious ROF attached to it, it'd be wortht it.

Spell Magic has a hard time competing with tech on the battlefield, and that's a fact. One of Kev's tweeks should be to either increase casting speed (the PPE Channeling rules from the Rifter weren't bad, though a bit munchie at mid levals and up), OR spell damage should multiplied by the level of the caster (or portion of) so their low number of attacks per melee with magic would be offset with a bigger payoff & boom.

There's more, but if he hit those areas I'd be really happy.

[grandmaster z0b]

I'd love to see them fix the rate of fire/burst rules as well, hopefully in a way that allows tanks and robots to do more damage than an infantryman's rifle.

[Gomen_Nagai]

i'd totally Ignore any of Kc's suggestions and just Fix it so that there are no Errors and incredibly stupid misleading rules ambiguities.


and I'd revise the XP system to incorporate Evil Alignments and Selfish alignments

[Dead Boy]

I'd love to see them fix the rate of fire/burst rules as well, hopefully in a way that allows tanks and robots to do more damage than an infantryman's rifle.

Well, technically speaking there already is an official rule that allows for exactly that. I call it The Errata ROF Rule, and though there are some who disagree with me (you'll know who soon enough ) it is my contention that it enables ALL weapons that have the ROF of Equal to the number of hand to hand attacks (or an approximatin there of) to use the Aim, Burst, Wild rules as presented in the Main Book. And yes, there is supporting material for this on pg. 39 of the RGMG (though unfortunately it got lost in the re-wrie for the 4th edition) where Kev so much as says that he decided to do away with the "Standard" and "Aim, Burst, Wild" (essentially the same thing) and replace them with the "Equal to..." ROF. And it works too. Those that he wants to be burst capabe get the "Equal to..." ROF (or the like), while those he wants to be single shots usually get the additinal tag line "Single shot only" or the equivelent to. But do note that Pulse weapns and rail guns have pre-defined bursts, meaning they use their special bursts in stead of the normal multiples. Now, what is the ROF most commonly attached to the big guns on vehicles?

[grandmaster z0b]

I'd love to see them fix the rate of fire/burst rules as well, hopefully in a way that allows tanks and robots to do more damage than an infantryman's rifle.

Well, technically speaking there already is an official rule that allows for exactly that. I call it The Errata ROF Rule, and though there are some who disagree with me (you'll know who soon enough ) it is my contention that it enables ALL weapons that have the ROF of Equal to the number of hand to hand attacks (or an approximatin there of) to use the Aim, Burst, Wild rules as presented in the Main Book. And yes, there is supporting material for this on pg. 39 of the RGMG (though unfortunately it got lost in the re-wrie for the 4th edition) where Kev so much as says that he decided to do away with the "Standard" and "Aim, Burst, Wild" (essentially the same thing) and replace them with the "Equal to..." ROF. And it works too. Those that he wants to be burst capabe get the "Equal to..." ROF (or the like), while those he wants to be single shots usually get the additinal tag line "Single shot only" or the equivelent to. But do note that Pulse weapns and rail guns have pre-defined bursts, meaning they use their special bursts in stead of the normal multiples. Now, what is the ROF most commonly attached to the big guns on vehicles?

But how to you apply the current burst rules to vehicle weapons without an ammo drum or clip? I would rather a burst system that is based on the amount of rounds fired not the amount in the clip. It wouldn't be too hard, just set a standard burst for all semi-automatic weapons (I would say all energy rifles and pistols are semi-auto) and then make the amount of rounds listed in a "standard burst" for a full auto weapon and make that the standard for that weapon. I use a table to determine how many shots hit according to how high the to hit roll is, but you could just roll the dice or have a set amount hit according to range, cover, how fast the target is moving etc.

[Killer Cyborg]

I'd love to see them fix the rate of fire/burst rules as well, hopefully in a way that allows tanks and robots to do more damage than an infantryman's rifle.

Well, technically speaking there already is an official rule that allows for exactly that. I call it The Errata ROF Rule, and though there are some who disagree with me (you'll know who soon enough )

:raises hand:
I do, I do!!

I can explain why, if people are interested...

[Killer Cyborg]

how do you apply the current burst rules to vehicle weapons without an ammo drum or clip? I would rather a burst system that is based on the amount of rounds fired not the amount in the clip.

My house rule is that most automatic weapons are based off of a hypothetical clip of 20-30.
A full-clip burst is 16-20 shots.
A half-clip burst is 7-14 shots.
A short burst is 2-6 shots.

[Rimmerdal]

I'd be happy if they could just explain things right and were consistent...

[Dead Boy]

Well, technically speaking there already is an official rule that allows for exactly that. I call it The Errata ROF Rule, and though there are some who disagree with me (you'll know who soon enough )

:raises hand:
I do, I do!!

I know. And that's partly why I always freely disclose that my intrepretation is not shared by all when this topic comes up.

But how to you apply the current burst rules to vehicle weapons without an ammo drum or clip?

Ya just do. And that answer is actually 100% canon. Need proof? Check out the "hatch guns" on the old venerable MkV APC. They have a ROF of Aim, Burst, Wild, but are tied into the Nuclear Power Supply of the vehicle. Effectively Unlimited Payload! If you really need a count of how many shots were fired, just use a rough approximation based off what a rifle would fire with the same burst.