Tome Grotesque and Arcanum - Delayed

[BigLEE]

See the new press release, http://palladiumbooks.com/press/press2005-04.html

Curious excuse considering they just did a HC for BtS2, and have done hardcovers at least 3 other times in the past.

Edit - Maybe it's the print run size?

[gaby]

Well I hope they will shows the Covers in May?

[Daniel Stoker]

The other times they weren't pushing to get them printed to a deadline either. The hardcover books before came out after the softcover were done and released. He messed up, admitted it, and apologized. Does it get me my copy any sooner? No, but I can understand it and still wait.



Daniel Stoker

[maasenstodt]

Wait a minute! You're telling me that long promised and needed non-Rifts titles are being pushed back so that the latest Rifts splatbook can get shoved out the door? Get right out of town!

[Guest]

Nothing surprising there.

[BigLEE]

The other times they weren't pushing to get them printed to a deadline either. The hardcover books before came out after the softcover were done and released.

None of that changes the lead time required by the printer to produce a hardcover.

So the question remains, does Ultimate Rifts require a longer lead time, because of the number of books being printed? Or is the two month lead time of HCs over softcovers standard, and even after four prior HCs (including one recent one), they forgot about it?

[Chuck Lang]

This is what got me from the April press release:

"[...] I’m dying to write Tome Grotesque™ and Arcanum™. The artwork is entirely done for Tome Grotesque™, and so is some of the writing (some of the text is already typeset and ready for paste-up). Arcanum™ is half written too [...]"

I can't believe that the books aren't even written yet–at least mostly. I would have thought that with core books such as these that most if not all of the material would be written before the release of the core book.

Please don't take what I have just typed as a rant or at all typed in frustration. It just comes to me as a surprise. I'll wait patiently for the books and purchase them when they are released as usual.

As always, I appreciate Kevin's sincerity and candor he gives his customers.

[Chuck Lang]

Nothing surprising there.

I'll throw a "ditto" out there to this. I'm so NOT shocked.

Just as a clarification, I'm not surprised by the delay only the lack of completion or level of incompletion.

[Killer Cyborg]

Meh.
As long as they DO come out within the next year or so...

[Chuck Lang]

Meh.
As long as they DO come out within the next year or so...

Agreed, my new Rifts campaign will last at least until the end of the summer and then (once I move causing the end of the Rifts campaign) I'll either be starting up a PFRPG campaign or another Rifts campaign.

So, my bases are pretty well covered.

Man I love GMing.

[Sentinel]

I appreciate the apology for the delay: but there should be no glaring errors in terms of spelling, grammer, or conflictory rules statements with this much extra time.

[Gallahan]

Sad to say... Palladium really doesn't seem to have BTS2 products on the main burner; it's more like, "We'll get it out when we get time," not "Hey let's energize this updated fan favorite with support!" Yeah, they seem to have sent poor BTS2 to take out an enemy position without air support.

[Jefffar]

Since I just had to delete a post here (please don't post in all caps) I should toss in my 2 cents.

Shortly after I received my hardcover of BTSN2, I wrote Kevin a letter. In it I let him know the good and the bad of the reactions that most of us here shared when it came to BTSN2 and I gave him some advice about the next 2 books.

In his reply which he wrote before he wrote the press release announcing the delay, but got to my desk after the press release he told me amoung other things that Rifts is the game that pays the bills at Palladium and weather you like it or not, he has to make work for that series, especially what he seems to be planning for Ultimate Rifts, a priority.

I also got the impression from the letter that he really would rather have done Arcanum and Tome Grotesque.

In fact, I think there would be a lot of very interesting books out right now if kevin was free to write what he wanted to write instead of writing what he needed to make money.

Doesn't make the curretn situation suck any less, but it's nice to know Kevin doesn't like it any more than we do.

[psijudge]

*sigh*

Another delay...

[Gomen_Nagai]

Grotesque and Arcanum should be combined together to save space.

[Gomen_Nagai]

They'll lose more fans by not releasing them.

[Jefffar]

Kevin gives me the idea that both of these books would probably be about the same sizes as most Palladium mainbooks. Turning them into 1 big book makes for a really big honkin' book.

I'd rather have 2 books so i can find stuff easily. 2 books should also last longer because there won't be as much stress on the binding.

[dark brandon]

see sig line.

[Jason Richards]

Since I just had to delete a post here (please don't post in all caps) I should toss in my 2 cents.

Shortly after I received my hardcover of BTSN2, I wrote Kevin a letter. In it I let him know the good and the bad of the reactions that most of us here shared when it came to BTSN2 and I gave him some advice about the next 2 books.

In his reply which he wrote before he wrote the press release announcing the delay, but got to my desk after the press release he told me amoung other things that Rifts is the game that pays the bills at Palladium and weather you like it or not, he has to make work for that series, especially what he seems to be planning for Ultimate Rifts, a priority.

I also got the impression from the letter that he really would rather have done Arcanum and Tome Grotesque.

In fact, I think there would be a lot of very interesting books out right now if kevin was free to write what he wanted to write instead of writing what he needed to make money.

Doesn't make the curretn situation suck any less, but it's nice to know Kevin doesn't like it any more than we do.

And god forbid he let anyone else write a Rifts book. If you are a control freak (it's just an expression get over it) you shouldn't try to run multiple lines of books. He needs to let go, pick a person or team of people for each project (Nightbane, BTS, Palladium Fantasy, etc.) and turn them lose. Otherwise it will all collapse when he does.

You do realize there are at least four other Rifts authors right now, right? Todd, Carl, Carmen and me. And, I'm pretty sure that's not all...

Five if you count Pat Novak.

[dark brandon]

You do realize there are at least four other Rifts authors right now, right? Todd, Carl, Carmen and me. And, I'm pretty sure that's not all...

Five if you count Pat Novak.

I thought he was saying have like...an editor?...for each line, as opposed to him being the editor for them all.

Which I can agree with. He should probably just manage rifts, BTS2 and Palladium, and then allow someone else the job to write, edit and distribute the other lines of books. This would give him more free time I think to create lines that have been dropped (mech.) or concentrate more heavily in those few lines.

[Jefffar]

What, do you think Kevin is made of money?

I think you guys forget soemthing, Palladium is a small company.

How small is it? For the first 5 years or so I was a moderator I wasn't paid. At least now they do pay me, in books.

[Sureshot]

Which begs the question: why update BTS if your not going to support it? Imo it just feels like a waste of time and effort. Give the fan base a scrap to quiet them. Palladium has some really strange business policies then again they are not alone.

Kind of reminds of Guardians of Order release of SAS. They spent a year hyping and promoting the game and when the core rule book came out they then did nothing with the game line for almost six moths.

I can understand that Rifts pay the bills and I respect that because i would do the same thing but at the same time K.S. really needs to stop jerking the fanbase around like he has been doing lately. Just come flat out and say that for the next five years Rifts is a priority. As opposed to acting like it is not then saying that it is.

[Sureshot]

What worries me is that eventually things will implode at Palladium. One man can only do so much and run a company a certain way before the whole system collaspes. Unfortunately I can see it happening maybe not now but in 5 or 10 years from now.

Which would be a pity because despite some of the negative things I say about Palladium I do want to see the company continue. I just can't see the company surviving the way it's run now.

Hell my workplace is a perfect example the attitude for the longest time was "do everything right now with the most minimal amount of resources and don't ask for more because we can't afford any" Right now because we don't have the resources do and apparently the can't afford anymore in the way of hours and new people projects and jobs are being left undone, workers are overloaded and the system is starting to show cracks.

As for Palladium being a small company. I no longer consider them small. I consider them a medium sized company. They have a potential movie deal, the n-gage deal and keep releasing new games. That is way beyond the capabilities of a small company imo. Plus lefts face it this is not the early 1980 anymore and Palladium is no longer the new guy on the block. So they can't keep hiding behind "but we are a small company" excuse any longer.

[Sureshot]

I couldn’t agree with you more Sureshot. I like Palladium and want them to be around for lots more years but the smallest criticism is blown way out of proportion and suggestions like my ones above are routinely flamed. What can you do at that point?

I wish I could tell you but I just don't know. I am sure KS and the other who work at Palladium are aware of how we feel but they don't really seem to be doing anything about it. It's not the first time the I have seen some of the issues that you have written about mentioned. Yet nothing happens.

One has two options either move on to another system or stick it out with Palladium. Myself I am waiting to see how Rifts Ultimate will be. If it really blows me out of the water I will probably still collect Palladium stuff if not I will move on and not look back.

[dark brandon]

What, do you think Kevin is made of money?

I think you guys forget soemthing, Palladium is a small company.

How small is it? For the first 5 years or so I was a moderator I wasn't paid. At least now they do pay me, in books.

I'm not sure about palladium, but someone had a very good point. Why put out things like BTS2 if your intentions to follow up on it fall through constantly? It probably wouldn't be so bad if Palladium simply supported Rifts and only rifts. (as opposed to trying these side-tracks, such as bts2 and Chaos earth)

[demos606]

As for Palladium being a small company. I no longer consider them small. I consider them a medium sized company. They have a potential movie deal, the n-gage deal and keep releasing new games. That is way beyond the capabilities of a small company imo. Plus lefts face it this is not the early 1980 anymore and Palladium is no longer the new guy on the block. So they can't keep hiding behind "but we are a small company" excuse any longer.

Palladium being a small company has much less to do with what cooperative enterprises they've entered into than it does how many full time writers and editers they have on staff. The movie isn't being developed in house, nor is the NGage game - the 5 writers and 3 editors (based on Splicers editor credits) don't have the time or skills for movie and video game development. Palladiums total staff is what, 20, maybe 25 on payroll? Thats a small company regardless of what they're involved in as cooperative deals.

[Sureshot]

Palladium being a small company has much less to do with what cooperative enterprises they've entered into than it does how many full time writers and editers they have on staff. The movie isn't being developed in house, nor is the NGage game - the 5 writers and 3 editors (based on Splicers editor credits) don't have the time or skills for movie and video game development. Palladiums total staff is what, 20, maybe 25 on payroll? Thats a small company regardless of what they're involved in as cooperative deals.

I don't know I still consider them a medium sized company. Small companies to me are either Eden Studios or Guardians of Order or Dream Pod Nine. These companies to my knowledge have about 5-10 people on their staff. Though I maybe wrong.

What I was trying to get across is that the small company excuse just does not wash with most of the fanbase imo. It's been used since the company was created and imo just not valid anymore.

If they are such a small company why do they keep getting creating situations in which they as a company do not have the resources to handle? For example releasing new games that in all likelihood may or may not be supported. Such as Splicers or BTS2. Or telling us a whole bunch of stuff is planned to come out and more often than not it's just Rifts stuff. (Which I understand why because Rifts pays the bills. I am just using this to get my point across.) It's like a cycle that they insist on repeating and I don't know why.

It's like I said in another post Palladium is caught in a catch-22 of their own creation. And only they and no one else can get them out of it. Don't get me wrong I still like Palladium but they really need to change some of the way they do things. When it's all said and done I do want the company to survive.

[demos606]

Palladium has 4 dedicated writers, 2 dedicated editors, and Kevin working both sides. Eden has 4 bios on their website but that only covers their writers/editors. My very generous estimate of 20 for PB includes accounting, web monkey, janitorial, advertising staff and everything else the company needs to run effectively. Still a small company by any realistic estimation.

I won't say they dont have problems with release scheduling but thats not a problem thats unique to Palladium.

[Sureshot]

Palladium has 4 dedicated writers, 2 dedicated editors, and Kevin working both sides. Eden has 4 bios on their website but that only covers their writers/editors. My very generous estimate of 20 for PB includes accounting, web monkey, janitorial, advertising staff and everything else the company needs to run effectively. Still a small company by any realistic estimation.

I won't say they dont have problems with release scheduling but thats not a problem thats unique to Palladium.

It's not really a question of scheduling problems. If they actually took on a realistic workload then most of their scheduling problems would clear up imo. As it stands it will never be solved unless two things happen. One they hire more people which at the present time they do not feel the need too. Which imo is a huge mistake or second they reduce the number of books releases to one in which they actually have the resources to work with. This also has not been done.

Most companies try to improve their schedule and Palladium in some respects has I will admit. Though there could more improvement and who knows maybe in the future there will be I personally don't think so but you never know.

[Lazlo Kid]

I'm disappointed in the delays, but I can't say that I'm upset. I've played BTS for so long that enjoy the freedom as a GM to do what I choose to with the setting, the character classes, the monsters, etc. Anything I want is easily converted from other Palladium systems.

The other extreme is Rifts where there is a whole storyline that was being told by the writers of books (e.g., Siege on Tolkeen - Tolkeen never stood a chance.) I'd rather create my own story with my players. When it's in a book, it becomes canon and (for some players) going against canon in a game/movie/etc. is a thousand times worse than catching your parents doing the deed...."Oh...the horror.... "

So I will make due with the delay. I'll take full advantage of the openness. I'll pull out the old imagination, dust it off and do something original. If I find out when the sourcebooks do come out that I converted something incorrectly (i.e., Magic,) it'll be easy enough to fix easier.

There's no sense in complaining about something I can't control. There's gaming to do!

[Beelzebozo]

Metaplot in books doesn't bother me...I'm used to games like 7th Sea and Fading Suns, where this is common (although Fading Suns's metaplot is mainly in the introductions to the books rather than the game text). Metaplot makes it feel like the game world is real...it evolves and changes, making the players feel like they're part of something larger. And I can of course use it or reject it as I feel like (in fact, I horrendously mangled the beginning of 7th Sea's "Rise of Cabora" storyline in my campaign). In the case of Rifts, however, it simply feels like the game lacks a central vision of what it could/should be. The events in the world haven't been as tightly cohesive - or even made sense, for that matter.

Palladium's idea that "Rifts sells more, so we do it first" is a self-fulfiling prophesy...more Rifts books sell because more are printed. Even an increase in volume of individual books can be attributed to greater support for Rifts...the more books there are on the store shelf, the more interest generated. Players think "Hey, if they've made that many books for Rifts, it must be great!", little knowing the horrible, horrible truth.

As people have stated, other companies - some as small as Palladium - don't have a problem getting product out on time. From what I understand, Palladium's production methods are stuck back in 1992, which accounts for some of the delays. The fact that Maryann has jumped ship (no Gilligan's Island jokes, please) is greatly telling...

[Jefffar]

Well my 1986 printing of Recon promises a fully compatable version appearing in the next 6 months . . .

Not matter when Arcanum and Tome get put out, Palladium is still going to be way behind schedule.

[gaby]

Kevin Siembieda said that After rifts Ultimate come out, he will start wokr on Tome Grotesque and Arcanum.

If Ultimate come out in August, then they could be out in December at the earliest.

I hope they may show some of the Books Art soon.

[Jefffar]

To my understanding, Tome and Arcanum were allready mostly done, he just had to put the emergency rush on Ultimate.

[Beelzebozo]

To my understanding, Tome and Arcanum were allready mostly done, he just had to put the emergency rush on Ultimate.

'

I doubt that, personally. Unless most of the books will be reprints (which I'm fearful they will be).

[Tinker Dragoon]

To my understanding, Tome and Arcanum were allready mostly done, he just had to put the emergency rush on Ultimate.

'

I doubt that, personally. Unless most of the books will be reprints (which I'm fearful they will be).

Well, the portion done by freelancers was supposedly done. Presumably it was just Kevin's share of the work (reviewing Todd's manuscript, adding his own, etc.) which was delayed.

[Jefffar]

Beelzebozo - I got the signed letter in my files from Kevin telling me what happened.

[gaby]

From the New Press Release it looks like ther a chance they will come out before the End of the Year!

[Beelzebozo]

Beelzebozo - I got the signed letter in my files from Kevin telling me what happened.

I guess I'm just used to assuming the worst when Big Kev is involved.

[Chuck Lang]

I don't know I still consider them a medium sized company. Small companies to me are either Eden Studios or Guardians of Order or Dream Pod Nine. These companies to my knowledge have about 5-10 people on their staff. Though I maybe wrong.

Here's what the Small Business Administration defines a small business as:

"SBA defines a small business as one that is independently owned and operated and not dominant in its field.  A small business must also meet the employment or sales standards developed by the Small Business Administration and based on the North American Industry Classification System (NAICS).  In general, the following criteria are used by SBA to determine if a concern qualifies as a small business and is eligible for SBA loan assistance: 


• WHOLESALE - not more than 100 employees;
• RETAIL or SERVICE - Average (3 year) annual sales or receipts of not more than $6.0 million to $29.0 million, depending on business type;
• MANUFACTURING - Generally not more than 500 employees, but in some cases up to 1,500 employees;
• CONSTRUCTION -  Average (3 year) annual sales or receipts of not more than $12.0 million to $28.5 million, depending on the specific business type."

[Chuck Lang]

There are also more specific breakdowns with regards to what the company's primary business or production is (book publishing?), but my above post should give an idea of what a "small business" actually is. I'd say that Palladium is a small business (no more than 500 employees).