One hit kills?

[Jimmy Crat]

Sorry this is a lil off topic...

APS Light doesn't do enough damage?

Heck it has two of the most powerful blasts in the game since they can both gain damage per level, only cost ONE attack, and have the best range! Nigh-on best long range attacks in the game. In my eyes they are the best if you want to compare it to SEE which has a pathetic attack cost. Our house rule is that SEE takes only 2 attacks. Quite a neccessary ruling and keeps SEE as the most powerful energy attack.

What about the half dozen other free powers that APS Light receives to make you nigh-invulnerable and quite manueverable? Speaking of speed...1000mph per level mean anything to anyone? Best in the game I think...

Take Flight: Hover to compliment APS Light and you're sitting pretty. Why there aren't at least a few bonuses for hovering combat is beyond me...

On topic:
Ban Head-Shots!

It is powerful, at low level. APS: Electricity's is like that as well. +2 dmg per level means that other EE powers that do +1d6 per lvl catch up and potentially bybass it. I don't like SEE that much either, which is why I use the version on Dan's HU site, which is still down.
http://members.cox.net/heroesunlim/
The other resistances that the APD character gets is why I don't much like most APS powers, so I didn't mention it when I talk about Light specifically.

Uhm... actually, you can choose to make the Mega-Wings summonable by trading off some SDC and wing regeneration.

Personally though I like Rocket Fists too. I've been toying with the concept of making a character with Rocket Fists and Flight: Energy (with maybe an Energy Expulsion power too), but haven't found an appropriate venue.

I don't like the summonable option. It's a power thing, you lose 40 SDC net in flight and 100 on the ground, so I usually go with another option.

[Sentinel]

I don't like the summonable option. It's a power thing, you lose 40 SDC net in flight and 100 on the ground, so I usually go with another option.

That's the trade off for being able to walk around like a normal person.
Powers should have built in limits and disadvantages, as ooposed to special "Achilles heels".
Each power has pluses and minuses.

[Jimmy Crat]

I didn't say they shouldn't. The price for that power is just too high for me, so I use others.

[Guest]

Everytime I picture Mega Wings in my head, I see them a skinny white boy, pale, with dark hair, barefoot, wearing blue jeans.

Maybe it is me, when I was a teenager, and wished really badly that I had big metal wings.

[Uncle Servo]

I don't like the summonable option. It's a power thing, you lose 40 SDC net in flight and 100 on the ground, so I usually go with another option.

I can see where you'd arrive at that conclusion, but I honestly don't see a logical explanation why a Mega-Wings character should have more SDC in flight than he/she does on the ground. If one were to apply that line of thinking to everything that falls under "bonuses in flight" then the wings would have no SDC, no AR, and no regeneration while on the ground -- yet later on in the power description it says that one can use said wings to parry, to strike, and as a shield (kinda silly to use something with no SDC as a shield).

In addition you'd be 1D4 points uglier while on the ground even if your wings were completely unfolded.

IMO the bonuses might could have been worded a little better by not including all of them under the 'in flight' umbrella. The flight speed/altitude/strike/parry/dodge/damage bonuses I can see, but to me putting the SDC/AR information there just doesn't make sense.

[Sentinel]

Everytime I picture Mega Wings in my head, I see them a skinny white boy, pale, with dark hair, barefoot, wearing blue jeans.

Maybe it is me, when I was a teenager, and wished really badly that I had big metal wings.

I always kinda liked Namors little ankle wings.
Of course it would lead to some teasing, except for the fact that namor could lift a whale, and had no compunctions about punching out some disrespecting jerk.

[Overlord Rikonius]

Maybe it is me, when I was a teenager, and wished really badly that I had big metal wings.

did it make you feel blue?

[Uncle Servo]

Maybe it is me, when I was a teenager, and wished really badly that I had big metal wings.

did it make you feel blue?

ZING!

I'm sure it wouldn't have been easy being blue... but then again, it's not easy being green either...

[Sentinel]

Maybe it is me, when I was a teenager, and wished really badly that I had big metal wings.

did it make you feel blue?

ZING!

I'm sure it wouldn't have been easy being blue... but then again, it's not easy being green either...

I don't know.
Ask Hulk, Abomination, Harpy, Leader, Super Adaptoid, Titanium Man, Jarella, Brainiac 5, Beast Boy, Jade, or the Kryptonite Man.

[Jimmy Crat]

I don't like the summonable option. It's a power thing, you lose 40 SDC net in flight and 100 on the ground, so I usually go with another option.

I can see where you'd arrive at that conclusion, but I honestly don't see a logical explanation why a Mega-Wings character should have more SDC in flight than he/she does on the ground. If one were to apply that line of thinking to everything that falls under "bonuses in flight" then the wings would have no SDC, no AR, and no regeneration while on the ground -- yet later on in the power description it says that one can use said wings to parry, to strike, and as a shield (kinda silly to use something with no SDC as a shield).

In addition you'd be 1D4 points uglier while on the ground even if your wings were completely unfolded.

IMO the bonuses might could have been worded a little better by not including all of them under the 'in flight' umbrella. The flight speed/altitude/strike/parry/dodge/damage bonuses I can see, but to me putting the SDC/AR information there just doesn't make sense.

I always thought of the bonus SDC in flight as a kind of "automatic roll w/ impact", they aren't rooted to the ground so some of the force of impct dissipates with knockback. It doesn't make perfect sense since the SDC applies to all kinds of damage, and flying doesn't have any printed repurcussions on knockback, but thats how I thought it was intended. Like how actually flying with your wings is more impressive than just having them. It seems like almost every flight power gives bonuses only "In flight" so I never questioned it. On the other hand, I didn't examine the power too closely since I didn't like the wingspan or the concealing ability and I have never seen a character with the power.

[Overlord Rikonius]

I don't like the summonable option. It's a power thing, you lose 40 SDC net in flight and 100 on the ground, so I usually go with another option.

I can see where you'd arrive at that conclusion, but I honestly don't see a logical explanation why a Mega-Wings character should have more SDC in flight than he/she does on the ground. If one were to apply that line of thinking to everything that falls under "bonuses in flight" then the wings would have no SDC, no AR, and no regeneration while on the ground -- yet later on in the power description it says that one can use said wings to parry, to strike, and as a shield (kinda silly to use something with no SDC as a shield).

In addition you'd be 1D4 points uglier while on the ground even if your wings were completely unfolded.

IMO the bonuses might could have been worded a little better by not including all of them under the 'in flight' umbrella. The flight speed/altitude/strike/parry/dodge/damage bonuses I can see, but to me putting the SDC/AR information there just doesn't make sense.

I always thought of the bonus SDC in flight as a kind of "automatic roll w/ impact", they aren't rooted to the ground so some of the force of impct dissipates with knockback. It doesn't make perfect sense since the SDC applies to all kinds of damage, and flying doesn't have any printed repurcussions on knockback, but thats how I thought it was intended. Like how actually flying with your wings is more impressive than just having them. It seems like almost every flight power gives bonuses only "In flight" so I never questioned it. On the other hand, I didn't examine the power too closely since I didn't like the wingspan or the concealing ability and I have never seen a character with the power.

I never applied SDC bonuses just in flight. I always figured that the rigors of flying (and maybe the rigors of learning to land properly ) just toughened the characters up in general.

[Guest]

For a while I couldn't figure out what the hell you guys were talking about.

Then I checked and noticed that sure enough, Palladium goofed again and just left the "Bonuses in Flight" text up there, without specifying which ones are only in flight and which are not.

Obviously the P.B. S.D.C. and being able to hold your breath/sustain G's would not be dependant solely on being in the air.

Oh, and no I didn't feel like Archangel, but I don't see how that would be a Zing unless I'm missing something.

[Overlord Rikonius]

For a while I couldn't figure out what the hell you guys were talking about.

Then I checked and noticed that sure enough, Palladium goofed again and just left the "Bonuses in Flight" text up there, without specifying which ones are only in flight and which are not.

Obviously the P.B. S.D.C. and being able to hold your breath/sustain G's would not be dependant solely on being in the air.

Oh, and no I didn't feel like Archangel, but I don't see how that would be a Zing unless I'm missing something.

I guess Servo is not a big fan of Warren's

[Jimmy Crat]

I never applied SDC bonuses just in flight. I always figured that the rigors of flying (and maybe the rigors of learning to land properly ) just toughened the characters up in general.

[Sentinel]

Reading this discussion has made me think of:

"Learning To Fly"

Into the distance, a ribbon of black
Stretched to the point of no turning back
A flight of fancy on a windswept field
Standing alone my senses reeled
A fatal attraction holding me fast, how
Can I escape this irresistible grasp?
Can't keep my eyes from the circling skies
Tongue-tied and twisted Just an earth-bound misfit, I
Ice is forming on the tips of my wings
Unheeded warnings, I thought I thought of everything
No navigator to guide my way home
Unladened, empty and turned to stone
A soul in tension that's learning to fly
Condition grounded but determined to try
Can't keep my eyes from the circling skies
Tongue-tied and twisted just an earth-bound misfit, I
Above the planet on a wing and a prayer,
My grubby halo, a vapour trail in the empty air,
Across the clouds I see my shadow fly
Out of the corner of my watering eye
A dream unthreatened by the morning light
Could blow this soul right through the roof of the night
There's no sensation to compare with this
Suspended animation, A state of bliss
Can't keep my eyes from the circling skies
Tongue-tied and twisted just an earth-bound misfit, I

And then there was this:

Well I started out down a dirty r oad
Started out all alone
And the sun went down as I crossed the hill
The town lit up the world got still

I'm learning to fly but I ain't got wings
Comin' down is the hardest thing

Well the good old days may not return
And the rocks might melt, and the sea may burn

I'm learning to fly but I ain't got wings
Comin' down is the hardest thing

Well some say life will beat you down
Break your heart, steal your crown
So I started out for God kno ws where
But I guess I'll know when I get there

I'm learning to fly around the clouds
But what goes up must come down

I'm learning to fly but I ain't got wings
Comin' down is the hardest thing
I'm learning to fly around the clouds
But what goes up must come down

I'm learning to fly
I'm learning to fly

[Uncle Servo]

I always thought of the bonus SDC in flight as a kind of "automatic roll w/ impact", they aren't rooted to the ground so some of the force of impct dissipates with knockback. It doesn't make perfect sense since the SDC applies to all kinds of damage, and flying doesn't have any printed repurcussions on knockback, but thats how I thought it was intended. Like how actually flying with your wings is more impressive than just having them. It seems like almost every flight power gives bonuses only "In flight" so I never questioned it. On the other hand, I didn't examine the power too closely since I didn't like the wingspan or the concealing ability and I have never seen a character with the power.

Actually, my character in Darkwind's "Deadly Future" campaign has Mega-Wings. I chose the summonable option for MW because it tied in nicely with his other major ability -- Bio Armor.

But hey, if you don't like the power you don't like the power.

[Jimmy Crat]

Actually, my character in Darkwind's "Deadly Future" campaign has Mega-Wings. I chose the summonable option for MW because it tied in nicely with his other major ability -- Bio Armor.

But hey, if you don't like the power you don't like the power.

Ah, Bio-Armor. I must recant not having seen the power. A player in my group was making a character for a game once using that power combo. He didn't play him so I still didn't see him used. That guy made 3-4 different characters for that game before he decided he liked one. ALL of them had Bio-Armor. Cool power, but shutter the potential for munchkinism is high.

[znbrtn]

Munchkinism from Bio-Armor? Oh heaven forbid he have an AR 16 and 220 SDC! How will I overcome that?!

That power is so cool but relatively weak IMO.

I like Mega-Wings on characters that have to transform to use their powers. Like from enchanted weapons, the empowered tranformation or even Gestalt! This in IMO does not require the player to actually "pay" for the Mega-Wings concealment, because he doesn't conceal anything while he is not powered up.

Bio-Armor on top of that is all the better.

i agree on all three points.... 1)the most munchkin thing i can think of with bio-armor would be to wear it over an a.p.s. power..... and that doesn't even do much.... 2)bio armor is a little too light IMO.... 3)transformations are good.

[Jimmy Crat]

Munchkinism from Bio-Armor? Oh heaven forbid he have an AR 16 and 220 SDC! How will I overcome that?!

That power is so cool but relatively weak IMO.

Depends on where you stand. As I wasn't the GM, I got used to the idea that my character was gonna have to try really hard to keep up. And btw, I didn't say the power alone was was munchkin, I actually like it. It was the power combos that were created I'm talking about.

[Uncle Servo]

Munchkinism from Bio-Armor? Oh heaven forbid he have an AR 16 and 220 SDC! How will I overcome that?!

That power is so cool but relatively weak IMO.

Depends on where you stand. As I wasn't the GM, I got used to the idea that my character was gonna have to try really hard to keep up. And btw, I didn't say the power alone was was munchkin, I actually like it. It was the power combos that were created I'm talking about.

Just out of curiosity, what are some of the power combos you're referring to?

And BTW -- my D-F character's full powers list is: Mega-Wings (summonable), Bio-Armor, Physical Perfection, APS Limb: Metal, APS Limb: Metal (special -- forms shield instead of weapon). The nutshell version is that he's an Empowered character who was horribly disfigured in an auto accident but had dormant powers awakened by the 'ghosts' of his ancestors.

[Jimmy Crat]

Munchkinism from Bio-Armor? Oh heaven forbid he have an AR 16 and 220 SDC! How will I overcome that?!

That power is so cool but relatively weak IMO.

Depends on where you stand. As I wasn't the GM, I got used to the idea that my character was gonna have to try really hard to keep up. And btw, I didn't say the power alone was was munchkin, I actually like it. It was the power combos that were created I'm talking about.

Just out of curiosity, what are some of the power combos you're referring to?

And BTW -- my D-F character's full powers list is: Mega-Wings (summonable), Bio-Armor, Physical Perfection, APS Limb: Metal, APS Limb: Metal (special -- forms shield instead of weapon). The nutshell version is that he's an Empowered character who was horribly disfigured in an auto accident but had dormant powers awakened by the 'ghosts' of his ancestors.

Apologies, but I just don't remember the exact combos anymore. IIRC he was playing an experiment and had rolled 3 major powers, so right there is something. The Gm let you trade majors down for minors on a 1:2 basis, so I don't know why he had us roll for powers to begin with. I know I remember he had Bio-Armor and:
Chameleon, Mega-Wings, Body Weapons, Superstrength, Enhanced Leaping, APS: Metal (some strange hybrid w/ Bio Armor). I know there was more but I don't remember anymore. The campaign didn't end up lasting very long. If you can relate, my friend who made the char was a vet MTG player who min/maxed almost without knowing it. Such a shame, even redeemed card gamers bear the scars for life...

[The Artist Formerly]

The problem here is the age old battle of realism vs game need.

Too realism kills a game.

Superman isn't all that tough. A krypto bullet, and a fifty cal sniper rifle. End of comic. Batman would be even easier. Line up a shot from beyond their perceptions and bang, dead. Magneto, Apocoplsye(sp?) and a varity of other big bads could be dropped in the same fashion.

But that doesn't make for a good story. It's too realistic and walks over the elements needed to make a story. It fails to be heroic. So in the comics, it doesn't happen, or when it does, the writers come up with some strange overly complex nonsensical reason why it fails, rather then just a well trained guy with a gun.

Now, a game that totally ignores this is going too far the other way. The idea that these rules of biology which the players are so intimately familiar with makes the game feel unplausable. Players have less concern for the dangers their characters face, and the dangers the people around their characters face. Everyone is invincible and immortal.

So a balance has to be struck.

The trick is that the balance shifts with the group and the characters in the group. A street level game, where the heroes are all packing guns, body armor and attitudes means that the GM is going to want to have a more gritty feel and a bullet to the face, even for a moderate superhuman, is fatal. A group playing lofty world busting members of the most powerful superhumans on the planet will find a sniper with a fifty cal rifle to be annoying at best. That's a balance the GM has to find and shift with the game. Something to be stated when the game first sets up, each time and try not to carry rules from game to game.

Given your particular problem, I'd likely go with a generous use of the critical injury/damage tables in the begining of the book. Significant enough to keep the threat of bullets a serious issue, but not out right fatal. The danger of permenant or long term stat drops will keep even the most hardened player on his toes, but keeps a bad dice roll from destroying a good character. Any time a bullet finds it's way around someone's brain pan, heart or the like, follow the standard governing rules for damage, plus a roll on the table or out right apply a spesific result to a character, as it would apply to the situation. No fuss, no muss, it seems plausable and best of all it's in the book so their is limited room for arguements.