Do you support the Coalition? Come vote.

[Toc Rat]

double post sorry

[dark brandon]

Real world religion/beliefs has no place here as this is the palladium world.

I've always garnered from reading Palladium line Humans came from one of two places.

The first is originating on palladium world. Perhaps during the great destruction in the baalgor swamps, humans may have ended up traveling to Earth (This earth/of beyond the supernatural world), and thus became atlanteans. (No real evidence to support this, but humans did appear in Palldium world like 100,000 years ago).

The second is that Humans probably originated in this world/beyond the supernatural/rifts world first. It was here that they did their magic and caused the great rift that drained this world of it's magic. They then took to seclution, traveling and settling in a variety of other worlds, which may have well been palladiums world. We know they are possibly a lost clan in scrappers and Mechanoids and the humans of their world are possibly also a lost clan.

Regardless, there is no real evidence to support that Humans were not the first sentient life on earth (in palladium), and any sentient life on earth prior to humans I think were probably evil (thus the reason Psionics in Beyond the supernatural 2 are concidered "defenders").

Also, in Nightbane (Shadows of light I think it was in) talk about that alien race who took on forms to better understand these curious creatures that were humans, mainly because they were sentient. This led to the creation of the Nightlords.

[Toc Rat]

NGR is to gargs as is CS is to having no real enemies. NGR is facing gargs at the moment, in one year brodkil will turn on gargs. I don't remember exactly Rifts: Aftermath and do not have the book so I will take your word for it. Though I could have sworn it said Brodkil will take gargs by surprise, and then focus on NGR, taking them by surprise as well due to their increased numbers and use of tech from The angel of death.

Is the CS more stable for the moment? Undeniably. Will it continue to be that way? hard to say. Is the NGR about to become more stable? Yes.

That's what we're saying. CS is undeniably stable at the moment, thus, they are currently the best chance for humans to return to taking earth.

But it is by no means "Blind selectivness".

Incorrect, the Brodkill will NOT be attacking the NGR or anyone else for that matter after the gargoyle war.

Notice I said more stable. That is a far cry from unbeatable. Due to their expanionistic xenophobic ways, the CS will sooner or later bite off more then they can chew. History is filled with examples of this. In any case it is irrelevant as I never said anything about eventually re-taking the planet. I simply stated that there were many human nations besides the CS that are doing very well at not only keeping the race alive but thriving.

That is the last I will say on that subject. You will of course hold on to your very narrow world view as is your right.

And the term is "Selective Blindness" not "Blind selectivness". The twomean entirely different things. Selective Blindness is when someone chooses to ignore all other evidence or data available to them in favor of one piece. They will support their position not because they have overwhelming evidence to support their view but because they simply choose too. A classic example of this is the Catholic church. For many centuries they refused to believe that the Earth was round despite growing undeniable evidence to the contrary.

"Blind selectivness" means to pick something at random without any means of making an informed choice. Example, blindfolding someone and then have them pick a card from your hand. They have no way of seeing the cards and therefor no way of making a actual choice in the matter. They are blind and can only select one at random. Note the extreme difference between the two.

[dark brandon]

Incorrect, the Brodkill will NOT be attacking the NGR or anyone else for that matter after the gargoyle war.

Notice I said more stable. That is a far cry from unbeatable. Due to their expanionistic xenophobic ways, the CS will sooner or later bite off more then they can chew. History is filled with examples of this. In any case it is irrelevant as I never said anything about eventually re-taking the planet. I simply stated that there were many human nations besides the CS that are doing very well at not only keeping the race alive but thriving.

That is the last I will say on that subject. You will of course hold on to your very narrow world view as is your right.

Wow, man, relax. Don't take things so personal (and no reason to get personal). This is a game. as such, there is no need to make comments like "very narrow world view" which is insulting. It's just a game. I've listened to what you had to say, i respectfully rebuttled against it. Lets all be respectful here, eh? If we gamed together it wouldn't make much of a difference. If you played a CS soldier in a CS game I was running, you'd have concequences for your actions, just as if I played a DBee hater in your game I'd have concequences.

Their expanionistic xenophobic ways is alot like what america did. They expanded, and they pushed native americans to their boarders. Any native americans that did not move were guned down. Children were reserved a special place in that the army didn't waist bullets on them, but clubed them with the back of their rifles or used their boots. Same can be said for CS. Generally speaking, outside the boarders they probably don't harrass Dbees as much (but probably still do to some extent.) The greatest nation on earth today (And if you disagree, it's still probably at least in the top 10 of most peoples) was fairly evil.

I don't think if CS was a democracy anything would really be any different. As someone said their love of the proseks is almost "Religious".

Of course, none of this makes any difference, because what history has to do with anything has no place in here. while we can draw similarities, there are many many more differences, which changes the equation. History has shown us as that is fails, at the same time, history does not take into account Magic, psionics (big ones here) the amount of tech available, "real" monsters...

And yes, there are many nations of humans that are thriving. I agree. I just said CS is at the top of the list.

[dark brandon]

My apologies. No insult was intended and yes this is a game.

You have admitted that there are other thriving human nations though, I had thought from your earlyer comments you did not think so. Placing the CS at the top of the list is fine if you must. It just appeared that you were denying the existence of the others. I now see that you don't deny them, just place them lower then the CS for your own reasons.

Janissary for the win

[dark brandon]

Janissary for the win

Cool, So what did I win?

Ninjas...in your pants.

[Toc Rat]

Janissary for the win

Cool, So what did I win?

Ninjas...in your pants.

So much for being respectful...

[dark brandon]

So much for being respectful...

I was being respectful. I didn't say pirates.

Just in case you did take it wrong, i am just playing.

[Toc Rat]

So much for being respectful...

I was being respectful. I didn't say pirates.

Just in case you did take it wrong, i am just playing.

I did and thanks for the clarification.

[Sir Neil]

Perhaps, but if the CS has its way, they'd be exterminated too.

That's Kevin's fault.

[cornholioprime]

You should see how interesting conversations around the Dinner Table get come Election Time (I'm also an Independent Voter who tends to vote for the most "libertarian" Candidate [the ideas not the Party Label] trapped in a gaggle of Republicans and Democrats who belittle me for not belonging to a "real" Party)....

Must be like being a Democrat in the Military...

Sum'pin' like that.

Humans, for some rather illogical reason that continues to escape me, believe that standing on ONE position or the other, no matter how little sense that may make, is somehow more "gutsy" than trying to find things out for yourself......

[cornholioprime]

Make way!!! MAKE WAY!!!

Intelligent Design Advocate coming through!!!!

Creationists:

Atheists:

?

To answer your Question, Ish:

There are those of us who essentially don't believe that the Universe isn't just 6000-10000 years old; at the same time, we beilieve (or perhaps "observe" is a better word) that both the Biological AND Quantum Universes show too much complexity to be self-originating; on top of all that, of course, is the "fact" that NOTHING in the Physical Universe shows signs of self-origination; that is to say, Matter does not show any capability of coming into existence from the Void.

Hence we who are called "Intelligent Design" Advocates, who are somewhat hated by both 6000 year-old Earth "Creationists" AND 'The Universe and everything in it came from void' "Atheists" (for lack of a better word; we believe that one can easily be both a Deist, say, AND an Intelligent Design Advocate at the same time without conflict; our Beliefs don't logically 'mandate' the existence of ANY God, or Gods, over the other, if one even wants to use that term)

Before you go off saying that something can't come from a void. The Casimir effect is caused by the fact that space is filled with vacuum fluctuations, virtual particle-antiparticle pairs that continually form out of nothing and then vanish back into nothing an instant later.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_effect

By the way. Don't accuse me of claiming anything. The only claim I made is that im pragmatic.

For the record, Solothurn/Ish:

Those Virtual Particles that you cited/mentioned??

In Quantum Physics, Virtual particles are just that, "virtual," and are usually used for little more (in Layman's terms) than keeping the Universal Balance Sheet of Energy and Particles in balance. They are called virtual Particles because according to the Laws of Conservation of Matter and Energy, what you lose in one (Matter or Energy) you MUST gain back in equal measure the other; but thanks to the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, you CANNOT know exactly where these Particles may be. So virtual Particles are therefore 'created' and 'destroyed' as a sort of Cosmic Mathematic Placeholder.

Only in relatively rare, "weird" cases, such as Black Hole Evaporation, do such Virtual Particles sometmes "become" REAL Particles.

Which goes back to my Observation that NOTHING in the Physical Universe shows signs of self-origination.

P.S. I couldn't respond to your earlier Post so many days ago because I had to go back and re-read my Stephen Hawking Layman's Quantum Physics Book ("A Brief History of Time"), amongst others. And I hope that I'm explaining this more or less correctly.

Oh well, nice side tangent, and thanks for the Wikipedia Article on the Casimir Effect.

[Nxla666]

I thought we let this one go?

[cornholioprime]

It appears we have some forum necromancers among us... *eyes the poster before nxla666 warily*

Sorry, not trying to raise the dead. But the Side Tangent was pretty cool especially since I thought that Ish/Solo had found some new Scientific Discovery; I just HAD to answer it.

But seriously, folks....

This IS in effect the SECOND Teleport Thread, or as Zer0 put it, "The Thread that goes on and on...."

[Mech-Viper Prime]

It appears we have some forum necromancers among us... *eyes the poster before nxla666 warily*

Sorry, not trying to raise the dead. But the Side Tangent was pretty cool especially since I thought that Ish/Solo had found some new Scientific Discovery; I just HAD to answer it.

But seriously, folks....

This IS in effect the SECOND Teleport Thread, or as Zer0 put it, "The Thread that goes on and on...."

because everybody loves the coalition

[cornholioprime]

CS is amazing. They make me erect.

Please describe in detail....

Rellik -- --Cornholioprime


OUCH!!!!


.......I meant to say, "what rellik said."

[Mech-Viper Prime]

yup

[Nxla666]

And the brainwashing works , LONG LIVE THE CS!

[dark brandon]

I would say something, but what could be said that hasn't already been said before.

[Jimmy Crat]

SUPERCALIFRAGILIS.....

Nope, thats been said to.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

well i guess everything has been said .............................ok

[Mech-Viper Prime]

I like to play inside the CS. No love for them, but use their resources. They can't be destroyed by my efforts, so use the system!

cant beat them, join them huh?

[GA]

Where's the No, most of the time option?

And by the way, the Coalition represents the worst qualities of American Nazi Fascism. The Navy represented in Rifts Underseas is a good example of true Americans.

[cornholioprime]

Where's the No, most of the time option?

And by the way, the Coalition represents the worst qualities of American Nazi Fascism. The Navy represented in Rifts Underseas is a good example of true Americans.

And yet, for some strange, weird reason, many who call themselves CS "Supporters" don't even seem to acknowledge its (the New Navy's) existence....

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Where's the No, most of the time option?

And by the way, the Coalition represents the worst qualities of American Nazi Fascism. The Navy represented in Rifts Underseas is a good example of true Americans.

And yet, for some strange, weird reason, many who call themselves CS "Supporters" don't even seem to acknowledge its (the New Navy's) existence....

like who? come on name the supporters and thier views on the new navy

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Where's the No, most of the time option?

And by the way, the Coalition represents the worst qualities of American Nazi Fascism. The Navy represented in Rifts Underseas is a good example of true Americans.

And yet, for some strange, weird reason, many who call themselves CS "Supporters" don't even seem to acknowledge its (the New Navy's) existence....

like who? come on name the supporters and thier views on the new navy

Still waiting

[cornholioprime]

Where's the No, most of the time option?

And by the way, the Coalition represents the worst qualities of American Nazi Fascism. The Navy represented in Rifts Underseas is a good example of true Americans.

And yet, for some strange, weird reason, many who call themselves CS "Supporters" don't even seem to acknowledge its (the New Navy's) existence....

like who? come on name the supporters and thier views on the new navy

Still waiting

Virtually all of you. I tried to scan my memory as I typed up this latest Response and STILL can't think of nary a one of you who even mentions them.......

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Where's the No, most of the time option?

And by the way, the Coalition represents the worst qualities of American Nazi Fascism. The Navy represented in Rifts Underseas is a good example of true Americans.

And yet, for some strange, weird reason, many who call themselves CS "Supporters" don't even seem to acknowledge its (the New Navy's) existence....

like who? come on name the supporters and thier views on the new navy

Still waiting

Virtually all of you. I tried to scan my memory as I typed up this latest Response and STILL can't think of nary a one of you who even mentions them.......

if you going to say something like that dont give same lame donkey answer like that,

[cornholioprime]

Where's the No, most of the time option?

And by the way, the Coalition represents the worst qualities of American Nazi Fascism. The Navy represented in Rifts Underseas is a good example of true Americans.

And yet, for some strange, weird reason, many who call themselves CS "Supporters" don't even seem to acknowledge its (the New Navy's) existence....

like who? come on name the supporters and thier views on the new navy

Still waiting

Virtually all of you. I tried to scan my memory as I typed up this latest Response and STILL can't think of nary a one of you who even mentions them.......

if you going to say something like that dont give same lame donkey answer like that,

What in blazes does THAT mean???

Or, put another way, what part of "I can't remember seeing ANY of you self-proclaimed CS Supporters even mention the New Navy, much less cite it as the true keepers of the American Ideal" don't you understand???

Hell, you're asking me for a specific list of Names and I'll bet that even you can't recall a self-professed CS Supporter that mentions the New Navy, even sporadically....

[Mack]

Lock Warning.

Don't get personal. Just drop that conversation if needed. - Mack

[cornholioprime]

Lock Warning.

Don't get personal. Just drop that conversation if needed. - Mack

Cornholioprime -------- -------- Cornholioprime

Sorry.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Lock Warning.

Don't get personal. Just drop that conversation if needed. - Mack

Cornholioprime -------- -------- Cornholioprime

Sorry.

see now you done it, got both of us yelled at,hehe

but on the subject of the new navy, i can say at best i'm disapointed with the new navy , nothing big has happened with them, just minor encounters at best

[Mack]

Better.




<--- In a totally manly manner.

[RainOfSteel]

So then make something happen with them.

The CS in my Rifts milieu never could seem to find the funds to refit/outfit a navy, and one never got built.

That, and the army got wind of it and crushed it in an internal political power play . . . every credit spent on a new navy would be one less credit for the cash-strapped CS military machine. Not to mention an additional command hierarchy with annoying access to the Emperor.

[Nxla666]

OK, fine.

The New Navy COULD have been a great new start for the American way of life but they are to focused on offing a big piece of calamari to care about dry land leaving it for the CS to clean up, and if you remember correctly even the New Navy AKNOWLEDGES the CS as the heir to the American Empire.

The New Navy has now been officially mentioned by a CS supporter.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Where's the No, most of the time option?

And by the way, the Coalition represents the worst qualities of American Nazi Fascism. The Navy represented in Rifts Underseas is a good example of true Americans.

**Grabs new navy book and starts to read**

why bother reading that like i said before i'm disappointed in the new navy 300+ years and all they have to show for it is a handful of bases at best, personally if a fight came down bewteen the New Navy and the Coalition, i bet the coalition would wipe the floor with them

[KLM]

Hi there!

Another satisfied costumer

But seriously, have you read the "Treacherous Awakenings"
by Adam Chilson?

I think it has everything pro and versus Dead Boys.

Adios
KLM

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Where's the No, most of the time option?

And by the way, the Coalition represents the worst qualities of American Nazi Fascism. The Navy represented in Rifts Underseas is a good example of true Americans.

**Grabs new navy book and starts to read**

why bother reading that like i said before i'm disappointed in the new navy 300+ years and all they have to show for it is a handful of bases at best, personally if a fight came down bewteen the New Navy and the Coalition, i bet the coalition would wipe the floor with them

.....

You need to read up, MV. Not to change the subject, but the CS would first have to FIND them. And fighting them would be a losing proposition. The Ticonderoga alone could take on the entire CS Navy and FQ Navy combined.

CS Naval Officer#1: "Sir! We're being hit from below with a missile slavo!"
*ship explodes*

CS Naval Officer aboard a different ship: "Where the hell are they!?! Sonar can't see them!"
*ship explodes*

*CS Air force gets turned into a motly assortment of wreakage*

Then theres the part where a squad of CS Commandos get to go toe-to-toe with Nemo-2 and a couple other Sea Titans...
*SMACK*
*CRUNCH*
*PWN!*

CS Army meet the USMC...


Anyway. As my sig shows, I loathe the CS. They're bigoted, evil, short-sighted and cowardly. Ignorance, then say, can be fixed. But stupidity is forever, and the CS fits into the latter group. Evil done in the name of good is still evil, no matter how you sugar-coat it or rationalize it as "a matter of perspective."

Whenever I play, I got out of my way to cursh, maim, kill, destroy, dibilitate and embarass every single CS goernment-sanctioned-mass-murderer / "soldier" that I come across. My Cyber-Knight collects Dead Boy helmets. All were occupied before forced removal by way of Psi-sword.

thats your problem you hate the coalition its kinda blinds you to them and in the end makes your characters no better then them, janissary vs sea titans sorry, Janissary will kill the sea titans in hand to hand and will be finding Nemo-2 at the bottom of a coalition boot,

[KLM]

Hi there!

The Sea Titans also have to worry about full borgs and
juicers.

And is there an underwater skelebot variant?

Adios
KLM

[KLM]

Hi there!

Whenever I play, I got out of my way to cursh, maim, kill, destroy, dibilitate and embarass every single CS goernment-sanctioned-mass-murderer / "soldier" that I come across.

I've never attacked a CS murder-trooper witout first being provolked, even then, I spend a few actiosn trying to talk them out of comitting suicide by Cyber-Knight.

WHEN they refuse and open fire again is when the fun starts.

Are there two Coakes? Or just I perceive the conflict
between these two posts?

The Janissary-project is in one of the RIFTERS, and in a
quite early one (less than Nr. 10 I guess).

Adios
KLM

ps.: Of course, it is nothing wrong playing a bigoted character,
IF and WHEN you can "switch it off" after playing. So if you are
talking IC, no problem. If you are talking as a player...

[Mech-Viper Prime]

The Janissary-project is in one of the RIFTERS, and in a
quite early one (less than Nr. 10 I guess).

number 28 of the rifter line

[Mech-Viper Prime]

I've never attacked a CS murder-trooper witout first being provolked, even then, I spend a few actiosn trying to talk them out of comitting suicide by Cyber-Knight.

WHEN they refuse and open fire again is when the fun starts.

wow this is pure hate "CS Murder Trooper" and to think most CS troops once had nothing but respect for the Cyber knights,well atleast until SOT, but i guess things change

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Not dead? ***?!?! Why does this thread keep coming back to life? We must end the revival of this thread....starting with the elimination of all things magic and/or supernatural.

yup

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Yes, I am speaking as I would in Game.

Conflict? Not really. While attempting to put some sense into thier heads and make them run away, I'm also insulting them in as many ways as I can in hopes of them doing something stupid.

And theres a flipside to that SOT coin MV. Before they butchered civilians by the thousands in death camps and shot them in the back while they attempted to run, AND chased down refugee columns outside Minnesota in order to wipe them out, I was willing to give the BS, I mean CS, the benifit out the doubt.

Not anymore. Die Prosek.

yup let them virtues of the cyber-knight show thru,feed the hate, fuel the anger , down the path of darkness you will go

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Already Aberrant in Alignmnet, MV. I guess I should be called a Justiciar now instead of a Cyber-Knight.

However, my hate seems to end at the CS. I still get along great with any other CK I cross paths with, and am more than willing to join a crusade for the good. The CS just needs to be wiped off the map and have it's ashes swept into hte dustbin of history.

Thats after Chi-Town is consumed by fire and the ground it once stood on is sown with salt and irradiated.

yes lets get rid of theCS and let dunscon and people like him have free run of North America, or better yet let the brave cyber knights guard the devil's gate, or fight the cutthroats of the pecos empire.

[Toc Rat]

Already Aberrant in Alignmnet, MV. I guess I should be called a Justiciar now instead of a Cyber-Knight.

However, my hate seems to end at the CS. I still get along great with any other CK I cross paths with, and am more than willing to join a crusade for the good. The CS just needs to be wiped off the map and have it's ashes swept into hte dustbin of history.

Thats after Chi-Town is consumed by fire and the ground it once stood on is sown with salt and irradiated.

yes lets get rid of theCS and let dunscon and people like him have free run of North America, or better yet let the brave cyber knights guard the devil's gate, or fight the cutthroats of the pecos empire.

As if Dunscon could ever get his act together long enough to threaten anything more then a village of pacifists! Heck that might even be too much for him too handle.

[Toc Rat]

Where's the No, most of the time option?

And by the way, the Coalition represents the worst qualities of American Nazi Fascism. The Navy represented in Rifts Underseas is a good example of true Americans.

And yet, for some strange, weird reason, many who call themselves CS "Supporters" don't even seem to acknowledge its (the New Navy's) existence....

like who? come on name the supporters and thier views on the new navy

Still waiting

Virtually all of you. I tried to scan my memory as I typed up this latest Response and STILL can't think of nary a one of you who even mentions them.......

if you going to say something like that dont give same lame donkey answer like that,

What in blazes does THAT mean???

Or, put another way, what part of "I can't remember seeing ANY of you self-proclaimed CS Supporters even mention the New Navy, much less cite it as the true keepers of the American Ideal" don't you understand???

Hell, you're asking me for a specific list of Names and I'll bet that even you can't recall a self-professed CS Supporter that mentions the New Navy, even sporadically....

Sorry I missed this "debate". It just so happens I DO remember clear instances of the CS fanatics either not mentioning the New Navy or worse yet, calling them some very unkind names because they haven't fallen in bed with the Nazi loving Coalition States.

[Toc Rat]

Here is a quote from a CS supporter and his views on the New Navy. It is less then kind...

The only ones? Have you read any of the other books? What about the NGR? The New Navy? The Republic of Japan? Heard of them? The list goes on and on too.

BAH! *waves hand* I'm a North American boy here trying to eek out a living on the western frontiers of CS Missouri. The CS doesn't necessarily care about waht is happening with Germany, or the new navy... or whatever this place you call Japan is (never even heard of it?!). All I know is that the CS blew away some mean D-Bees that were getting close to my ranch. I think it was them that was steeling my corn, soy and Phred, m' goat last month. The Coalition States is more concerned with the homeland, securin' it's boarders and wiping out the evil empires of d-bees and muties in the northern terriotories. My the gods bless Emperor Prosek and Chi-Town... oh, and Missouri too!

.......................................Omote
FPQ

And another...

That being that the Coalition States are far from the only human nation out there and that being the case are not the only way humans will continue to not only survive but thrive on Rifts Earth.

IIRC, in the main book it was pretty clear that the Coalition was the last bastion of mankind.

Still another...

Though many disagree with me, I still hold to the romanticized notion that the Coalition is Humanity's last, best hope for survival.

I never did understand why anyone would say that. Selective blindness I guess. That totaly ignores the Space colonies, Moon base, New German Republic, Japan, Free Quebec(after breaking away) the New Navy and many other human nations. They all seem do be doing just fine and have been since The War and the coming of the Rifts.

So good ahead and wave their flag all you want but don't be surprised that many of us don't share your blindness.

yup space colonies and the moon people have turned their back on the humans on earth and each other for the most part.
NGR is nicer but treating the d-bees as second class people as does the city states in japan doesnt make them better then the CS i kinda of think its like the deep south around 1930-1950 "a dirty d-bee was cat calling a human woman, get the rope boys"
Free Quebec are still the same just not under the CS flag, i see Free Quebec more nasis like then the CS.
New Navy, might be a a good chance but they need to get off the fence and start gaining land and not sailing around the world on the love boat.
as for the rest, each of them has thier faults.

[Toc Rat]

Just found one more, I knew it was out there

Stage 7: Obliterate the Orbit Community and those on the Moon! Use the superior tech and more powerful ships of this CS Fleet to kill every last man, woman and child of those in orbit that conspired to keep Humanity from gaining access to space. Kill 'em all, let God sort 'em out!

[Toc Rat]

Whenever I play, I got out of my way to cursh, maim, kill, destroy, dibilitate and embarass every single CS goernment-sanctioned-mass-murderer / "soldier" that I come across. My Cyber-Knight collects Dead Boy helmets. All were occupied before forced removal by way of Psi-sword.

Way to play in character.

Perhaps he just has anger management issues?