House Rule Opinions

[Rimmer]

Well, we came up with this houe rule a while ago, in order to give the other attributes even footing, becasue lets face it PP rules all. It seemed to work well but will require more play testing.

1. PP works the same as it always has, adding bonuses to st, pry, dge
2. PS using the PP bonus table, will give a strike bonus, this can be used instead of the PP bonus, whichever is higher, but only for the strike roll.
3. PE again using the PP bonus table, will give a Parry bonus, again is NOT accumulative with the PP bonus, it's one or the other.

Well thats the basics of it, some other little alterations came up as well, like not being able to use your PS to get a strike bonus when doing Speacial moves, like a spinning leaping round house kick !!!

Still a work in progres but it looks promising.

[Adam of the Old Kingdom]

I like that you use PS for strike bonus.

you could declair some weapons are "finess" wepons and some are brute strength weapons and use the PP table applied to the appropriate attribute for the 2 weapon types.

the only problem is there are plenty of ways to increase your strength with skills.


use ME in some skills, like for the sniper skill.
Use the IQ table for MA or PB and make it the bonus for interogate or streetwise skill checks. (or similar)

[Rimmer]

Well i was playing PFRPG 1st Ed when this was being made up, so it wasen't to much of a problem maybe just have a point of negative returns, or that after a certain point you need like 10 extra points of PS to just get +1 strike bonus, cant remember the PP bonus scale at the moment.

[Adam of the Old Kingdom]

just remember that it runs from 1 to 8 between 16 and 30. easy.

another option, with a finess weapon, give it a thread range of +1 in place of every 2 points of damage bonus, like with dwarven quality.
that way you do not have Mr PP trying to use a great axe when a rapier is more their style. and creates 2 distinct type of fighting class.

[drewkitty ~..~]

...snip...
2. PS using the PP bonus table, will give a strike bonus, this can be used instead of the PP bonus, whichever is higher, but only for the strike roll.
3. PE again using the PP bonus table, will give a Parry bonus, again is NOT accumulative with the PP bonus, it's one or the other.
..snip

2--This appers to be exactly the same as the DND rule, and reject it out of hand on the same reasons I have aginst the DND rule. Physical Strength DOES ******* NOT determan if you can hit a target better. it is the pure "how strong your charater is"

It might, yes I said MIGHT, make it easyer to penitrate armor (ie AR & Nat AR) giving an negitive to the AR.

3) Agine PE does not affect if you can parry better, only the dextartity (PP) of the char affects striking, parrying, Dodging, pulling punches, rolling with a fall, and maintaing balance.

These ideas are totally Bogus

[sinestus]

i'll second drew for the most part...


strength might give you the ability to shrug off damage,
but swinging a weapon harder does NOT make it more accurate.

the only reason D&D goes that way is 'cause they suggest the point buy system for attributes which only really lets you have 1 good stat, and thus requireing a fighter to work 2 stats instead of 1 is unfair since all other classes only have 1 core stat they rely on... (give or take, but that was the origional idea)


screw that.


you want PS and PE to play a bigger roll in combat,
track weights and melee actions more
swinging a sword takes alot out of you.... it should show...

[Rimmer]

Well, fair enough comments, apart from a couple which were just rude, will not name names, but suffice to say the person is a bit of a pussie. (bad pun intended ) Anyway back to topic. Anyone who has been in the ring as many times as i have will have to agree that the stronger your opponent is, the harder his punch or kick is to block/or parry, hence where this house rule idea came from, fair enough that accuracy is diminished, so maybe no called shots ?, now, as to PE being used for blocking. I consider parries as using your forearm to parry a punch by hitting his forearm and or wrist, a block would be your forearm in front of his fist. Some good examples of this would be found in kickboxing, where fighters block shin kicks with their own legs. Now this will still hurt, so maybe you still take quarter dmg even if successful ?

Constructive critisisms welcome.

PS: have just realised that DnD uses PS for strike bonuses, have never played the latest versions (3.5?) but remembered it from KOTOR

[Goliath Strongarm]

Well, fair enough comments, apart from a couple which were just rude, will not name names, but suffice to say the person is a bit of a pussie.

While his comment may have been a bit rude (but I still agree with it, YOUR comment goes towards flaming. So, you might wanna watch it, before you end up banned.

I am going to go with the the flag of "not a chance in hades" on ever going with those house rules. If they work for you, great. But, swinging a weapon harder does not mean I can swing it better. I know plenty of people who can hit a lot harder than I can. THAT is strength at work. I can do it more accurately than they can. Thats PP (or in DND terms, dex) at work. Notice the difference? PS already gets its bonus from damage. All that house rule does is make PP obsolete.

the PE side-
PE is already given its bonus in HPs, and taking of damage. Just like I have buddies of mine that can deal out serious amounts of damage (PS), a lot of them can't take a whole lot. I can take a lot more than I can dish out (PE in action). Notice, that isnt based on being able to block or parry. Thats when I get hit.

PE should NOT affect (or is it effect in this case?) parrying, simply because it has NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. If you parry correctly, strength and endurance have next to no bearing on it. It's getting into the right position at the right time. PE is simply how much your body can take.

--
GS

"From your house rules, it looks like your trying to turn this into that other game"

[Veknironth]

Well, I don't think Strength should contribute to your chance to hit. If you want to use it in combat, other than the extra damage, then put it on a parry bonus. That could simulate the ability to actually hold your shield/weapon in between you and the blow. However, I wouldn't change it.

-Vek
"What I would like to see is a stat for aiming."

[Rimmer]

Well, fair enough comments, apart from a couple which were just rude, will not name names, but suffice to say the person is a bit of a pussie.

While his comment may have been a bit rude (but I still agree with it, YOUR comment goes towards flaming. So, you might wanna watch it, before you end up banned.

It was actually meant to name someone without actually saying the name, in hindsight i should have put a smiley after it, as it seems to have been taken out of context.

I am going to go with the the flag of "not a chance in hades" on ever going with those house rules. If they work for you, great. But, swinging a weapon harder does not mean I can swing it better. I know plenty of people who can hit a lot harder than I can. THAT is strength at work. I can do it more accurately than they can. Thats PP (or in DND terms, dex) at work. Notice the difference? PS already gets its bonus from damage. All that house rule does is make PP obsolete.

Well how about, PS getting half the bonuses that PP would get ?

the PE side-
PE is already given its bonus in HPs, and taking of damage. Just like I have buddies of mine that can deal out serious amounts of damage (PS), a lot of them can't take a whole lot. I can take a lot more than I can dish out (PE in action). Notice, that isnt based on being able to block or parry. Thats when I get hit.

PE should NOT affect (or is it effect in this case?) parrying, simply because it has NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. If you parry correctly, strength and endurance have next to no bearing on it. It's getting into the right position at the right time. PE is simply how much your body can take.

Fair enough, i agree, parries are all about Speed, accuracy, timing, all the things that fall under the heading of PP. I was going on about blocking, again in hindight i had forgotten about the Roll with impact rule.

--GS

"From your house rules, it looks like your trying to turn this into that other game"

Deffinitly not (and may your tongue fall out if you ever mention it again ) I am simply trying to add a bit more depth to the game and stop PP being the most crucial stat. Which is where all of this started.

[Rimmer]

Mental note to self, NEVER EVER use the Cyan colour ever again it really hurts the eyes

[Rimmer]

Sounds good, OK everybody, consider this thread locked untill i have gone out and brought Rifter #30

[victor15065]

Bonus to strike from PS has always been dumb

[Alrik Vas]

Bonus to strike from strength isn't as dumb as it sounds. Now, I agree that PP has more to do with it, but a body's use of reflex has a lot to do with strength and endurance.

I knew a guy who won lots of tournaments with cheap shots because he was just quicker than everyone else. But when he used proper technique and tried to hit for real, he wasn't nearly as fast or accurate, he couldn't break down your defense. Guy got his butt kicked all the time outside tournaments.

So, before we call it bogus or say anything else rude, remember stats are all mixed together, the body draws from all facets. Fighting is even pretty mental, you need lots of discipline to be a good fighter. RPG's tend not to reflect that much, either.

All I'm saying is that strength is a part of accuracy when throwing a punch, swinging a sword or chopping a tree down with an axe. Strength gives you control of your body, which lets you deliver punishment more precisely. It isn't all of it, reflexes are important, but they're built up by increasing your body's strength through training. Muscle memory.

I prefer it all from the standard way the game is played, personally, but I hope I've at least made my point here.

[Mack]

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