MADMANMIKE wrote:Killer Cyborg wrote:Which is more likely:
1. Kevin Siembieda deliberately lied to the readers through Erin Tarn,
..That's a pretty assinine interpretation of what I wrote above. Reread it and reconsider.
1. Be nice.
2. If you weren't saying that Kevin deliberately misled the readers by stating flat-out (through Erin Tarn) that Japan was destroyed, what were you saying?
Erin Tarn had never been to Japan, so there's no reason to assume she'd have anything but rumors and conjecture at her disposal for that info.
I'm discussing page 152 of the Rifts book.
All it says is:
"Japan was besieged by tidal waves and volcanic activity that toppled its great cities and killed millions. today it is a quiet little cluster of wilderness islands."
You'll have to point out to me where it says that Erin Tarn has never been there.
Erin Tarn is pretty careful about noting when she is reporting rumors:
p. 137 "Although I have never travelled that far North, I have it on good authority that...."
"I have personally seen xiticix insect warriors as far north as Hudson Bay in Manitoba and I'm told their scouts have been seen...."
"I tend to agree with the stories that..."
p. 138
"I've never been more than a few miles beyond the Rio Grande so my knowledge is limited..."
"Rumors about seething ley lines and kingdoms of vampires..."
"This is common knowledge to all who live in the area..."
"We have all heard about roving gangs..."
"The cities offer the greatest luxory and the greatest numbers of vampires; I am told..."
"Believe it or not, I am told this has been..."
p. 139
"I was told a convincing story of how..."
"I've heard similar tales from third parties..."
"I've heard the same to be said of..."
"Cyber-knights are known to roam these lands, for many are the tales of their valor..."
p. 140
"I'm told the present waiting period is six years..."
"Sadly, I understand that 20% die of disease..."
p. 141
"Beyond this is the Imperial Sanctum, several (I'm told five) subterranean levels..."
"I am told that the Imperial Sanctum is..."
p. 142
"Kingsdale is reputed to be a manufacturer of juicers..."
p. 144
"The Indian Mound Nexus is reputed to be..."
"Several ley line walkers I have spoken to believe that the Arch was delibrately constructed..."
"My travels in this land are limited, but..."
"Most are said to be..."
p. 145
"Most estimates put their numbers at..."
"It is said that he travels the dimensions..."
"As the Federation of Magic tells the tale..."
"Psyscape is a community of psychics also said to be located..."
"As to the location, I am told..."
p. 146
"I know scavengers who claim..."
p. 147
"is regarded as a haunted graveyard..."
"I've also heard tales..."
p. 148
"... but I can not personally substantiate thise rumor."
"I have heard tell of excavations that..."
"I've also heard rumors.."
p. 149
"I have heard consistent rumors of a mgic kingdom known as Shaedo..."
"(Kee-thh is the name I've heard)"
"... but have no evidence to support its existence..."
p. 151
"Atlantis is suspected..."
"Most seem to believe..."
"To my knowledge, nobody really knows."
"The continent is said to be inhabited by..."
"What I have heard is that..."
Reread that Japan description again.
Erin Tarn says that Japan was destroyed. Kevin Siembieda (writing as Erin Tarn) does NOT include ANY qualifying statements like the ones above.
Kevin did, when writing Rifts, leave a lot open to future development and to the reader's imagination. This is clearly done by making Erin Tarn's description vague at times, and making it rely on rumors at times.
The Japan description is NOT one of those times.
The description is stated flat-out, as matter-of-fact as the location of Chi-Town.
India is "
rumored to be inhabited by savage, cannibalistic D-Bees."
China is "
reputed to be a mystic play ground for demons and supernatural monsters."
In the land of the Nile and Egypt, "
It is said one of the largest and most powerful ley line nexus points/rifts is located..."
And Japan "
is a quiet little cluster of wilderness islands."
Likewise the fact that she refused to authorise the book in question leaves open the possibility that she never wrote a suposition on the status of Japan, but rather it was added by the actual publishers of said fictional book.
Or, more likely, Kevin originally pictured Japan as being destroyed and later changed his mind.
Isn't that more likely than him plotting out intricate and insignificant details like that into a gameworld that he never thought he'd get to fully develop...?
..To suggest that Kev lied through Erin Tarn is to suggest that he didn't leave the "disclaimer" of Erin not authorizing the book in the beginning of the section. It makes sense to believe that what is in the main book is there for the mindset of the players of characters from the main book, and quite simply, any characters from America would only have the Traversing Our Modern World as a source of info on the rest of the world.
I don't buy it.
P. 137
"What follows is a brief world overview
written by historian and explorer, Erin Tarn."
If that's a disclaimer, and not a bit of random flavor text showing Erin Tarn's meticulous nature, then it's there to keep people from asking "What about all those places not specifically mentioned...?"
Not so that Kev could go back on the solid descriptions of the world that Erin Tarn gives.
He was extremely careful to say when she was passing on rumors, and this just wasn't the case with Japan.
..You insult me by suggesting that I would suggest that Kev was a liar, and that my suggesting such is the way I validate my interpretation of the book. I did not insult you, I only shed light on your misconceptions of the book. Granted, you now apparently put too much faith in your original interpretation of that book, but that doesn't excuse the insult.
No insult was intended.
I pointed out that KS originally intended that Japan was destroyed.
You claimed that this was not the case.
Therefore, your claim is that KS originally DID intend for Japan to be part of Rifts.
This conflicts directly with the way Kevin (through Tarn) portrayed things.
Therefore your claim is that Kevin originally intended for Japan to be a part of Rifts Earth, yet he deliberately wrote a misleading description of things in the book.
Sounds like a lie to me.
.. since there is no evidence for the first theory and it seems to be quite a bit of a stretch at best.
..That makes no sense.
-Mike
What evidence do you have that Kev originally intended Japan to be a part of Rifts Earth?
Why would he write (as Tarn or not) that Japan had been destroyed if that was contrary to his vision of things?
You've stated your opinion, now back it up as I have backed up my own view.