Killer Cyborg's Great Rifts Japan Debate

[Killer Cyborg]

Erin Tarn has never been to japan and she ever stated she would love to visit japan

Interesting theory.
Now find anything in the main book that backs it up.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Erin Tarn has never been to japan and she ever stated she would love to visit japan

Interesting theory.
Now find anything in the main book that backs it up.

umm yes
now class turn to page 16 in your rue book go down to you find japan and read the entire japan thing

[Killer Cyborg]

Erin Tarn has never been to japan and she ever stated she would love to visit japan

Interesting theory.
Now find anything in the main book that backs it up.

umm yes
now class turn to page 16 in your rue book go down to you find japan and read the entire japan thing

Strangely enough, you'll find that I don't consider RUE to be a valid source of information on what was intended 15 years before it was written.
It's been updated to include all the changes since Rifts came out, so it's irrelevent in a discussion about the original intentions laid out in the main book.

[Kalinda]

Erin Tarn has never been to japan and she ever stated she would love to visit japan

Interesting theory.
Now find anything in the main book that backs it up.

umm yes
now class turn to page 16 in your rue book go down to you find japan and read the entire japan thing

Strangely enough, you'll find that I don't consider RUE to be a valid source of information on what was intended 15 years before it was written.
It's been updated to include all the changes since Rifts came out, so it's irrelevent in a discussion about the original intentions laid out in the main book.

True dat.

RUE can't be considered a valid source for the purposes of this discussion.

[RainOfSteel]

It's like the "Can the Enterprise take a Star Destroyer?" debate.

That is a very serious quesiton, I'll have you know.

The Enterprise can take a Star Destroyer on any date it wants to, and Starfleet and the Imperial Fleet can't do anything about it, because they can't keep an eye on both of them all the time, can they?

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Erin Tarn has never been to japan and she ever stated she would love to visit japan

Interesting theory.
Now find anything in the main book that backs it up.

umm yes
now class turn to page 16 in your rue book go down to you find japan and read the entire japan thing

Strangely enough, you'll find that I don't consider RUE to be a valid source of information on what was intended 15 years before it was written.
It's been updated to include all the changes since Rifts came out, so it's irrelevent in a discussion about the original intentions laid out in the main book.

huh? what a load of bull, KC
but hey you not going to take Erin Tarn own words saying she never been and would love to there, then hey, each to thier own bub.

[RainOfSteel]

I'm done wasting my breath with this.

You weren't wasting any to start with . . .

[Kalinda]

Erin Tarn has never been to japan and she ever stated she would love to visit japan

Interesting theory.
Now find anything in the main book that backs it up.

umm yes
now class turn to page 16 in your rue book go down to you find japan and read the entire japan thing

Strangely enough, you'll find that I don't consider RUE to be a valid source of information on what was intended 15 years before it was written.
It's been updated to include all the changes since Rifts came out, so it's irrelevent in a discussion about the original intentions laid out in the main book.

huh? what a load of bull, KC
but hey you not going to take Erin Tarn own words saying she never been and would love to there, then hey, each to thier own bub.

But we're not talking about erin tarn's words or intentions, we're talking about Kevin Siembieda's intentions 15 years ago.

[RainOfSteel]

my god, this shouldn't even be a debate, I think alot of the people seeking these arguments are insane and should stay on their medications

You know, certain groups of people would tend to think that about:

A) Everyone who games.
B) Everyone who spends time with gamers.
C) Anyone who would post to this board (or any other).

I, of course, think otherwise.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

It's like the "Can the Enterprise take a Star Destroyer?" debate.

That is a very serious quesiton, I'll have you know.

The Enterprise can take a Star Destroyer on any date it wants to, and Starfleet and the Imperial Fleet can't do anything about it, because they can't keep an eye on both of them all the time, can they?

how about Enterprise vs a Star destoryer vs a battlestar

[RainOfSteel]

my god, this shouldn't even be a debate, I think alot of the people seeking these arguments are insane and should stay on their medications

You've noticed I quietly pulled out of this debate...

And then re-entered it.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Erin Tarn has never been to japan and she ever stated she would love to visit japan

Interesting theory.
Now find anything in the main book that backs it up.

umm yes
now class turn to page 16 in your rue book go down to you find japan and read the entire japan thing

Strangely enough, you'll find that I don't consider RUE to be a valid source of information on what was intended 15 years before it was written.
It's been updated to include all the changes since Rifts came out, so it's irrelevent in a discussion about the original intentions laid out in the main book.

huh? what a load of bull, KC
but hey you not going to take Erin Tarn own words saying she never been and would love to there, then hey, each to thier own bub.

But we're not talking about erin tarn's words or intentions, we're talking about Kevin Siembieda's intentions 15 years ago.

the guess the point should be does it really matter

[Kalinda]

Erin Tarn has never been to japan and she ever stated she would love to visit japan

Interesting theory.
Now find anything in the main book that backs it up.

umm yes
now class turn to page 16 in your rue book go down to you find japan and read the entire japan thing

Strangely enough, you'll find that I don't consider RUE to be a valid source of information on what was intended 15 years before it was written.
It's been updated to include all the changes since Rifts came out, so it's irrelevent in a discussion about the original intentions laid out in the main book.

huh? what a load of bull, KC
but hey you not going to take Erin Tarn own words saying she never been and would love to there, then hey, each to thier own bub.

But we're not talking about erin tarn's words or intentions, we're talking about Kevin Siembieda's intentions 15 years ago.

the guess the point should be does it really matter

Not really.

[RainOfSteel]

KC,

Ok, the following are givens.

1) Japan was, originally, viewed as a destroyed ruin of broken islands.
2) Japan is now different since WB8:Japan arrived.
3) You don't like the changes introduced by WB8, feeling the prevoius was superior.

And . . .

I eagerly await the product of your imagination describing your set up in Japan.

[TechnoGothic]

I'm going to go with this about JAPAN...

PEOPLE did in fact check out JAPAN...way before the High-tech Cities returned though...

They would see little villages here and there, and thats it...of course Monsters & Demons too, but they somehow manage...

Lazlo investigators would consider this place quant cluster of islands, and thats it...no need to return anytime soon...

THEN.....THEN.....
a decade or so later, the High-Tech Cities return as through magic
And the rest of their History is as is written.....

I'm suprised You all didnt think of this as a possibility...

[Toc Rat]

Didn't we already cover this in the "Does Rifts have continuity?" Thread? I just went back and re-read it just ot be sure. It's one of those very rare topics that I and KC have the same mind set on.

To cover some of the points brought up then...

"Here is a basic example of non-continuity:

In RMB on the map of the old american empire, it shows that Tolkeen is in the mid-south area of Wisconsin, the Madison area. However, when the CS and Tolkeen went to war, Tolkeen is in the Twin City area of Minnesota. That is kind of big change." Warrior_Monk

"Derek Zoolander wrote:
Contiwhaty?"

"This only goes to further prove though that Rifts has NO easliy read continuity. Its as if several different writters who didnt talk to each other wrote the source/world books." Toc Rat

"I'm curious, there's three votes for yes, but we haven't seen any examples on the pro-continuity side of things. I wonder why that is..." Kuseru Satsujin

"I do not deny the other facts either though. The question didn't really ask if there was "good" continuity, just is there was any at all." Atramentus

"Rifts is a fun game, yet it is very full of continuity errors, inconsistencies, typos, cut-and-paste demons, and rule changes that it would be a mercy to limit new players to the first half-dozen books at the most." Kestrel

At last count the "Yes, there is continuity in Rifts" was 24. The "No, there isn't continuity in Rifts" was 43. That's nearly a two to one difference. Since then RUE has come out with promised fixes to the many issues and yet it didn't.

[Zer0 Kay]

For myself I prefer some sort of consistency in the world. More often than not the world changes not because it enhances the background, it to sell the next new shiny Rifts book. Which I understand but eventually one gets tired of seeing that. Japan imo is a good example of that.

Yes one can change it. Though sometimes it just good that they work from what they original intended rather than trying to make it more cooler than it original was.

I can totally see that. I guess it would be pretty frustrating to get a good mental picture of the world only to have it change periodically due to a whim or marketing decision.

I thought you were done waisting your breath?

[Zer0 Kay]

my god, this shouldn't even be a debate, I think alot of the people seeking these arguments are insane and should stay on their medications

You've noticed I quietly pulled out of this debate...

I said my piece and washed my hands of it as well.

yup same here

You just like commenting for absolutely NO reason don't you

[Zer0 Kay]

It's like the "Can the Enterprise take a Star Destroyer?" debate.

That is a very serious quesiton, I'll have you know.

The Enterprise can take a Star Destroyer on any date it wants to, and Starfleet and the Imperial Fleet can't do anything about it, because they can't keep an eye on both of them all the time, can they?

how about Enterprise vs a Star destoryer vs a battlestar

All of them vs. one Shadow Destroyer or a Vorlon Cruiser or a Minbari Destroyer... continuous directed beam weapons rule!!!

[Zer0 Kay]

my god, this shouldn't even be a debate, I think alot of the people seeking these arguments are insane and should stay on their medications

You've noticed I quietly pulled out of this debate...

And then re-entered it.

Quick beat everyone that said they left, but then came back, with a hearing!!!!!! I mean stick like this

[Zer0 Kay]

Erin Tarn has never been to japan and she ever stated she would love to visit japan

Interesting theory.
Now find anything in the main book that backs it up.

umm yes
now class turn to page 16 in your rue book go down to you find japan and read the entire japan thing

Strangely enough, you'll find that I don't consider RUE to be a valid source of information on what was intended 15 years before it was written.
It's been updated to include all the changes since Rifts came out, so it's irrelevent in a discussion about the original intentions laid out in the main book.

huh? what a load of bull, KC
but hey you not going to take Erin Tarn own words saying she never been and would love to there, then hey, each to thier own bub.

But we're not talking about erin tarn's words or intentions, we're talking about Kevin Siembieda's intentions 15 years ago.

the guess the point should be does it really matter

Not really.

EXACTLY!!!

[Zer0 Kay]

I'm going to go with this about JAPAN...

PEOPLE did in fact check out JAPAN...way before the High-tech Cities returned though...

They would see little villages here and there, and thats it...of course Monsters & Demons too, but they somehow manage...

Lazlo investigators would consider this place quant cluster of islands, and thats it...no need to return anytime soon...

THEN.....THEN.....
a decade or so later, the High-Tech Cities return as through magic
And the rest of their History is as is written.....

I'm suprised You all didnt think of this as a possibility...

Not to mention exactly how much of the area returned with the tech cities? Would it have made the Island look like it was broken?

Maybe the Millenium Tree had the areas it protects enshrouded by a mild leyline storm to obscure the area from the air.

Maybe when Erin supposedly went to Japan (she could be stating what everyone else already assumes and is written in other text books which are considered canon to them so would be taken at face value) they unknowlingly entered the Japanese triangle came out over Japan to see an alternate Japan and the returned the same way after the inspection back to Rifts Earth.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

my god, this shouldn't even be a debate, I think alot of the people seeking these arguments are insane and should stay on their medications

You've noticed I quietly pulled out of this debate...

I said my piece and washed my hands of it as well.

yup same here

You just like commenting for absolutely NO reason don't you

as do you huh?

[Zer0 Kay]

my god, this shouldn't even be a debate, I think alot of the people seeking these arguments are insane and should stay on their medications

You've noticed I quietly pulled out of this debate...

I said my piece and washed my hands of it as well.

yup same here

You just like commenting for absolutely NO reason don't you

as do you huh?

Yup

[Mech-Viper Prime]

my god, this shouldn't even be a debate, I think alot of the people seeking these arguments are insane and should stay on their medications

You've noticed I quietly pulled out of this debate...

I said my piece and washed my hands of it as well.

yup same here

You just like commenting for absolutely NO reason don't you

as do you huh?

Yup

well then its settled

[Zer0 Kay]

my god, this shouldn't even be a debate, I think alot of the people seeking these arguments are insane and should stay on their medications

You've noticed I quietly pulled out of this debate...

I said my piece and washed my hands of it as well.

yup same here

You just like commenting for absolutely NO reason don't you

as do you huh?

Yup

well then its settled

what is? Oh wait I'm supposed to disagree. Nuh uh

[Mech-Viper Prime]

my god, this shouldn't even be a debate, I think alot of the people seeking these arguments are insane and should stay on their medications

You've noticed I quietly pulled out of this debate...

I said my piece and washed my hands of it as well.

yup same here

You just like commenting for absolutely NO reason don't you

as do you huh?

Yup

well then its settled

what is? Oh wait I'm supposed to disagree. Nuh uh

i would like to hear your thoughts on this topic

[RainOfSteel]

It's like the "Can the Enterprise take a Star Destroyer?" debate.

That is a very serious quesiton, I'll have you know.

The Enterprise can take a Star Destroyer on any date it wants to, and Starfleet and the Imperial Fleet can't do anything about it, because they can't keep an eye on both of them all the time, can they?

how about Enterprise vs a Star destoryer vs a battlestar

I think they're going to be sad they ever named one of those episodes "Menage a Troi".

[RainOfSteel]

I'm going to go with this about JAPAN...

PEOPLE did in fact check out JAPAN...way before the High-tech Cities returned though...

They would see little villages here and there, and thats it...of course Monsters & Demons too, but they somehow manage...

Lazlo investigators would consider this place quant cluster of islands, and thats it...no need to return anytime soon...

THEN.....THEN.....
a decade or so later, the High-Tech Cities return as through magic
And the rest of their History is as is written.....

I'm suprised You all didnt think of this as a possibility...

It's been thought of, just not brought up in this topic until now.

[RainOfSteel]

I'm done wasting my breath with this.

You weren't wasting any to start with . . .

I knew some smart aleck would point out that I was typing. Sheesh, literal minded grumble, grumble...

Somebody has to, and I was in a flippant mood last night.

[Killer Cyborg]

Erin Tarn has never been to japan and she ever stated she would love to visit japan

Interesting theory.
Now find anything in the main book that backs it up.

umm yes
now class turn to page 16 in your rue book go down to you find japan and read the entire japan thing

Strangely enough, you'll find that I don't consider RUE to be a valid source of information on what was intended 15 years before it was written.
It's been updated to include all the changes since Rifts came out, so it's irrelevent in a discussion about the original intentions laid out in the main book.

huh? what a load of bull, KC
but hey you not going to take Erin Tarn own words saying she never been and would love to there, then hey, each to thier own bub.

You don't seem to understand the point of this thread.

[Killer Cyborg]

KC,

Ok, the following are givens.

1) Japan was, originally, viewed as a destroyed ruin of broken islands.
2) Japan is now different since WB8:Japan arrived.
3) You don't like the changes introduced by WB8, feeling the prevoius was superior.

And . . .

I eagerly await the product of your imagination describing your set up in Japan.

In my game world, Japan on Rifts Earth is a pretty quiet place that's almost entirly devoid of MDC capabilities and MDC threats.
Other than a few fishing villages, it's wilderness.

Frankly, that's how I think most of Rifts Earth should be... low (or zero) population, low-tech, low-powered.
What's the point of having an apocalypse if every nation on the planet rebuilds itself, and there are cities everywhere?

The Japan book has some decent stuff in it, but none of it is worth unmaking Kev's decision not to include Japan in the big picture of Rifts Earth. Every other futuristic cyberpunk-esque game out there had Japan as a huge power... usually with people in America using "Nu-Yen" or something as currency.
Having Japan simply no longer be a viable power in the world was a refreshing choice. Realistic too, considering how badly the island would have been hit in the apocalypse.

"But that's boring!" you might say....
So?
Not every corner of the planet has to be teeming with excitement.
A good chunk of the fun of the original game was that you could boldly go places where no human had set foot in hundreds of years... you could explore, colonize, whatever...

So I have only really used the Japan book to update The Foot Clan to fit the Rifts setting, and had The Foot located primarily in North America. I used them in my campaign quite a bit, and to good effect.

Other than that, I'd say that Rifts Japan would make for a pretty good Dimension Book. Instead of a high-tech city getting rifted from Rifts Earth to the future of Rifts Earth, why not just have it land in another dimension and start colonizing that world?
That would have been one heck of a lot more interesting, and it would have fit with the original intention of Japan being destroyed.
And it would even be easier to get to for characters in North America... it's easier to wander through a random rift and end up in another dimension than it is to travel to the other side of the planet.

[Killer Cyborg]

I'm going to go with this about JAPAN...

PEOPLE did in fact check out JAPAN...way before the High-tech Cities returned though...

They would see little villages here and there, and thats it...of course Monsters & Demons too, but they somehow manage...

Lazlo investigators would consider this place quant cluster of islands, and thats it...no need to return anytime soon...

THEN.....THEN.....
a decade or so later, the High-Tech Cities return as through magic
And the rest of their History is as is written.....

I'm suprised You all didnt think of this as a possibility...

It's been thought of, just not brought up in this topic until now.

That's a solid and plausible story that is retroactively created to patch up the inconsistancies between the books.
It's possible, yes... but it's not what Kev had in mind when he wrote the main book.

[Dr. Doom III]

In my game world, Japan on Rifts Earth is a pretty quiet place that's almost entirely devoid of MDC capabilities and MDC threats.
Other than a few fishing villages, it's wilderness.

Frankly, that's how I think most of Rifts Earth should be... low (or zero) population, low-tech, low-powered.
What's the point of having an apocalypse if every nation on the planet rebuilds itself, and there are cities everywhere?

It's been 300 years.
You want stagnation instead of rebuilding?

[Kelorin]

Well so much for RUE plugging up continuity gaps from RMB.

Now, RUE specifically states that Erin has never personally been to Japan, but has heard conflicting reports from a variety of sources. This is updated information in 109 PA. That means she had even less information to work with in 87 PA when Traversing our Modern World was put together. So her information was clearly just plain wrong.

What does get me though is this little item:

"Australia is said to be a shattered land where humans in the outback live like savages and the two tech cities shut themselves off from the rest of the world."

Where the heck did that bit come from? If she hasn't been to Japan, it's virtually gauranteed she hasn't been anywhere near the Pacific Ocean and most certainly not any where near Australia. Also, said by whom? The existence of the 2 tech cities in Australia is fairly area-specific knowledge.

More food for thought...

[RainOfSteel]

In my game world, Japan on Rifts Earth is a pretty quiet place that's almost entirly devoid of MDC capabilities and MDC threats.
Other than a few fishing villages, it's wilderness.

What about the giant major magic triangle that is just southeast of Japan?

Are there no demon and d-bee threats pouring out of it?

Or is that triangle just quieter than the others?

Frankly, that's how I think most of Rifts Earth should be... low (or zero) population, low-tech, low-powered.
What's the point of having an apocalypse if every nation on the planet rebuilds itself, and there are cities everywhere?

Places to go, things to do, don'ch'ya know?

I'm not too far behind you on this. My Rifts nations have what are to me more realistic military troop strengths, etc. I can't leave the whole Earth unpopulated, though. Sorry about that one.

And it would even be easier to get to for characters in North America... it's easier to wander through a random rift and end up in another dimension than it is to travel to the other side of the planet.

Yeah, I'm still wondering how they reconcile the "super difficult to travel" statements with the "we're going everywhere" statements.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Erin Tarn has never been to japan and she ever stated she would love to visit japan

Interesting theory.
Now find anything in the main book that backs it up.

umm yes
now class turn to page 16 in your rue book go down to you find japan and read the entire japan thing

Strangely enough, you'll find that I don't consider RUE to be a valid source of information on what was intended 15 years before it was written.
It's been updated to include all the changes since Rifts came out, so it's irrelevent in a discussion about the original intentions laid out in the main book.

huh? what a load of bull, KC
but hey you not going to take Erin Tarn own words saying she never been and would love to there, then hey, each to thier own bub.

You don't seem to understand the point of this thread.

no i was addressing a question about erin tarn i saw, not your "there nothing to see hear, move along japan"

[Killer Cyborg]

In my game world, Japan on Rifts Earth is a pretty quiet place that's almost entirely devoid of MDC capabilities and MDC threats.
Other than a few fishing villages, it's wilderness.

Frankly, that's how I think most of Rifts Earth should be... low (or zero) population, low-tech, low-powered.
What's the point of having an apocalypse if every nation on the planet rebuilds itself, and there are cities everywhere?

It's been 300 years.
You want stagnation instead of rebuilding?

I want realism, and 300 years is not a long time when after getting knocked back to the stone age (Iron age at best).

[Daniel Stoker]

I want realism, and 300 years is not a long time when after getting knocked back to the stone age (Iron age at best).

300 years is a huge amount of time when you have access to a 'lot' of the old information and don't have to rediscover it all from scratch again.



Daniel Stoker

[Gomen_Nagai]

[MODERATED - NO NAME CALLING PLEASE]. ... No amount of nukes would wipe out tech civilization. .... [MODERATED] Burn your rifts books, go pickup Corps Apocalypse.

[Jesterzzn]

In my game world, Japan on Rifts Earth is a pretty quiet place that's almost entirely devoid of MDC capabilities and MDC threats.
Other than a few fishing villages, it's wilderness.

Frankly, that's how I think most of Rifts Earth should be... low (or zero) population, low-tech, low-powered.
What's the point of having an apocalypse if every nation on the planet rebuilds itself, and there are cities everywhere?

It's been 300 years.
You want stagnation instead of rebuilding?

I want realism, and 300 years is not a long time when after getting knocked back to the stone age (Iron age at best).

Where did you get that idea? Germany was largely untouched. Even North America had many pre rifts factories and military installations remain mostly intact. More like a technological dark age (meaning severe impairment but not total loss) than a new iron age.

[vitae_drinker]

In my game world, Japan on Rifts Earth is a pretty quiet place that's almost entirely devoid of MDC capabilities and MDC threats.
Other than a few fishing villages, it's wilderness.

Frankly, that's how I think most of Rifts Earth should be... low (or zero) population, low-tech, low-powered.
What's the point of having an apocalypse if every nation on the planet rebuilds itself, and there are cities everywhere?

It's been 300 years.
You want stagnation instead of rebuilding?

I want realism, and 300 years is not a long time when after getting knocked back to the stone age (Iron age at best).

So what's stopping you? Honestly?

If you want your campaign to be based in an empty world full of maybe a few thousand humans and a few million monsters, well go for it.

Just don't expect PB to do it. But there is nothing stopping you.

[Killer Cyborg]

In my game world, Japan on Rifts Earth is a pretty quiet place that's almost entirly devoid of MDC capabilities and MDC threats.
Other than a few fishing villages, it's wilderness.

What about the giant major magic triangle that is just southeast of Japan?

Are there no demon and d-bee threats pouring out of it?

Or is that triangle just quieter than the others?

I haven't heard of it, so it must be in the Japan book.
Which means that it doesn't exist in my version of Rifts Earth.

Frankly, that's how I think most of Rifts Earth should be... low (or zero) population, low-tech, low-powered.
What's the point of having an apocalypse if every nation on the planet rebuilds itself, and there are cities everywhere?

Places to go, things to do, don'ch'ya know?

I'm not too far behind you on this. My Rifts nations have what are to me more realistic military troop strengths, etc. I can't leave the whole Earth unpopulated, though. Sorry about that one.

You don't need to have the whole earth unpopulated... just don't have all of it populated.
I have no problem with the NGR and a few other bastions of high-tech humanity that hold out here and there, but a lot of places should be devoid of human life either because nobody's moved back there yet or because the land was rendered inhospitable.

As for places to go... My group ran nearly 15 years almost exclusively in North America. There is so much do see and do there that you could run a nearly infinite number of campaigns without leaving the continent. Add in Mexico, Atlantis, and the NGR, and there's more than plenty of stuff to do... if the writers would flesh out the existing stuff instead of constantly adding new cities.

[Killer Cyborg]

You don't seem to understand the point of this thread.

no i was addressing a question about erin tarn i saw, not your "there nothing to see hear, move along japan"

Perhaps you should have quoted whatever you were responding to in order to avoid confusion.
Generally, when a person posts to a thread without indicating what they are talking about, it is assumed that they are addressing the topic at hand.

[grandmaster z0b]

What about the giant major magic triangle that is just southeast of Japan?

Are there no demon and d-bee threats pouring out of it?

Or is that triangle just quieter than the others?

I haven't heard of it, so it must be in the Japan book.
Which means that it doesn't exist in my version of Rifts Earth.

The 6 triangle anolomies are printed in many books including Underseas, Australia and BtS.
I thought that they were first mentioned in WB2 Atlantis, but I don't have my books here to back me up.

I really don't see the point in complaining about Japan, IMO the South America books are much worse. There's just far too much going on down there, too many empires and aliens not enough wilderness.

[cornholioprime]

In my game world, Japan on Rifts Earth is a pretty quiet place that's almost entirely devoid of MDC capabilities and MDC threats.
Other than a few fishing villages, it's wilderness.

Frankly, that's how I think most of Rifts Earth should be... low (or zero) population, low-tech, low-powered.
What's the point of having an apocalypse if every nation on the planet rebuilds itself, and there are cities everywhere?

It's been 300 years.
You want stagnation instead of rebuilding?

Hell, man, there are folks in The Other Game who STILL don't want Gunpowder there (and there is a cheesy, 'Gods have decreed that Gunpowder and most Tech just doesn't work in this Game Setting' Explanation to back it up) ..........

[RainOfSteel]

What about the giant major magic triangle that is just southeast of Japan?

Are there no demon and d-bee threats pouring out of it?

Or is that triangle just quieter than the others?

I haven't heard of it, so it must be in the Japan book.
Which means that it doesn't exist in my version of Rifts Earth.

That's one way of covering it (I've done the same myself to a few bits and pieces of canon).

So, are only the two triangles in the RMB book on your Rifts Earth? The other four just aren't there?

(The GMG has maps of them, p.332 col.1.)

Things to do, places to go, don'ch'ya know?

As for places to go... My group ran nearly 15 years almost exclusively in North America.

It doesn't have to have an emoticon after it to be sarcasm.

[Dr. Doom III]

I want realism, and 300 years is not a long time when after getting knocked back to the stone age (Iron age at best).

It was enough time after the fall of Rome.

And you seem to think they were knocked back a lot further that any Rifts book would have you believe.

[Dr. Doom III]

I haven't heard of it, so it must be in the Japan book.
Which means that it doesn't exist in my version of Rifts Earth.

The 5 demon seas are in the main book.

[RainOfSteel]

I haven't heard of it, so it must be in the Japan book.
Which means that it doesn't exist in my version of Rifts Earth.

The 5 demon seas are in the main book.

Six demon seas.

I see pictures of two of them on RMB p.158/159 (color plates), but I can't find a map of the other four. Are they mentioned in the text?