Top Ten Combat Mage O.C.C.s

[Greg Diaczyk]

This post was inspired by Drakered's - Rate the Temporal Warrior thread.

http://forums.palladium-megaverse.com/viewtopic.php?t=48067

From that thread people mentioned off a number of combat mages and who held the rating as the best tank.

My question is who are the top ten Combat Mage O.C.C.s ?

Somethings to consider/discuss:

1. Do intuitive magic-users count (like the Mystic Knight) ?
2. Do they have to be spell casters, or just use P.P.E. (like T-Men) ?

In my opinion I'd say yes to both of the above, as long as they used P.P.E. as part of their abilities and were combat oriented.

My thoughts (or if you will the preliminary list)?

1. Mystic Knight
2. Battle Magus
3. Temporal Warrior
4. True Atlantean Undead Slayer
5. Chiang-Ku Tattoo Master
6. Demon Queller
7. Controller Battle Magus
8. Biomancer (with Bio-Weapons and Bio-Armour)
9. Necromancer (bonded to appendages and other dead body parts)
10. Techno-Wizard (with appropriate TW equipment)

Other contenders:
11. Demon & Monster or Serpent Slayer (from Mystic Russia)
12. Mystic Kuznya
13. Warlock Marine (with or without Power Armour)

Note for racial considerations/comparison, consider them the same for all (i.e. If we are comparing who is better, a Temporal Warrior vs. an Undead Slayer, assume they are both True Atlanteans).

So let the judging begin!

[Sureshot]

I would add Shifters to the other contenders list. They may not be frontline mages but they can summon enough frontline cannon fodder to do the job for them.

[Greg Diaczyk]

I thought about the Shifter, but I consider them more of a general or commander (i.e. sending his minions to do the fighting), where as this thread was more aimed at mages who fought on the front lines so I left them off.

Good suggestion though!

[Guest]

What, no mention of the Smoker?

[Daniel Stoker]

What, no mention of the Smoker?

I love that class and the discount on PPE they get for combat spells.



Daniel Stoker

[Daniel Stoker]

Little Timmy could take on all of 'em!

Exactly. They're nothing without PPE channeling.

I don't think the smoker can be interrupted by rocks, I'll have to check on that though. As for Timmy, just cast a low level spell that takes one action and flatten him.



Daniel Stoker

[Jefffar]

My problem with this is we have enough mage varients that we can make a top 10 of anything of them.

[Uncle Servo]

Little Timmy could take on all of 'em!

Exactly. They're nothing without PPE channeling.

Horse Puckey. The little punk starts throwing rocks, and any combat mage worth his PPE either pulls out a pistol and ventilates him or runs up to him and snaps his neck. End of poor little Timmy.

These OCCs are as much about combat as they are about magic, so saying they're nothing with out PPE channeling really isn't accurate. They may not be quite as formidable as a ninja or Juicer, but they'd give most other combat oriented OCCs a run for their money.

As for my own list, I pretty much like the rankings in the original post... though I'd put the Demon Queller just a bit above the Tattooed Man mainly because the DQ doesn't have to physically access his body in order to use his powers.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Little Timmy could take on all of 'em!

Exactly. They're nothing without PPE channeling.

wrong. new rules let them cast any level 1-5 spell in one action without PPE channeling.


*casts fire bolt*

bye timmy....

[Prince Cherico]

Little Timmy could take on all of 'em!

Exactly. They're nothing without PPE channeling.

wrong. new rules let them cast any level 1-5 spell in one action without PPE channeling.


*casts fire bolt*

bye timmy....

Nekira mentioned it littel timmy is no longer the fearsome slayer
of mages he used to be

[Mudang]

What about:
Nightbane Sorcerer
Nightbane Mystic
Witch with Gift of Union

[Ghost]

A Lord magus is pretty good in combat too, not their main focus but they can handle it.
Especially since they have alot of fast incantations, means lost of different options - thus they are hard to predict.

[Joey Jo Jo Jr]

As for my own list, I pretty much like the rankings in the original post... though I'd put the Demon Queller just a bit above the Tattooed Man mainly because the DQ doesn't have to physically access his body in order to use his powers.

The T-Man doesn't have to physically touch the tattoos after 6th or 9th level. I can't remember off the top of my head.

7th

[Greg Diaczyk]

Songjuicers! completely forgot about them!

So here's the updated list:

1. Mystic Knight
2. Battle Magus
3. Temporal Warrior
4. Demon Queller (Uncle Servo's suggestion)
5. True Atlantean Undead Slayer
6. Chiang-Ku Tattoo Master
7. Controller Battle Magus
8. Biomancer (with Bio-Weapons and Bio-Armour)
9. Necromancer (bonded to appendages and other dead body parts)
10. Songjuicer

Other contenders:
11. Techno-Wizard (with appropriate TW equipment)
12. Demon & Monster or Serpent Slayer (from Mystic Russia)
13. Mystic Kuznya
14. Warlock Marine (with or without Power Armour)
15. Other T-Men: Maxi-Men, Sunaj, T-Monster-Man, Monster Hunter
16. Witch

Powerful, but not specifically Combat Oriented:
1. Shifter
2. Lord Magus
3. Warlock with Major Elemental at their side

I was thinking of Rift's specific combat mages, though the Nightbane Sorcerer & Mystic would certainly be a handful on Rifts Earth.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Ludicrous Mage and Trickster Mage are just as powerful as any other mage in rifts

[DBX]

in our gaming experience.

no debate about this.

first are the T-men greater than the greatest among equals, and then there are the gods of magic and gods of the warriors. when it comes to powerful magic and combat.


without invulnerability tattoo, a tattoo that is greater in power than antimagic cloud spell in RUE and better than most spells of legend. you also say the t-man is below 7th lvl and then you are looking at t-men being put among the ranks of mortal combat mages.


hands down the greatest combat mage in rifts is demon queller ( not seen the ones in China books that much). the best bar none.

a more tank version of this could possibly be the Sea Inquisitor.


the best of all are surely the legendary Warlock Marines. or ones done properly at least.



even these pale into insignificance when you look at the simple,humble, yet Mighty Apok.

[Daniel Stoker]

Songjuicers! completely forgot about them!

So here's the updated list:


I was thinking of Rift's specific combat mages, though the Nightbane Sorcerer & Mystic would certainly be a handful on Rifts Earth.

You still left out the Smoker from Manhunter.



Daniel Stoker

[Greg Diaczyk]

Solothrun wrote:

What about Mystically bestowed and Mystic Object/Weapon from HU2? Or are we dealing exclusively with Rifts only?

Yeah I was thinking Rift specific combat mages (see above Nightbane comment), so no they don't count.

What about a combat oriented Alchemist with thier own Rune weaponry?

As of yet I have not seen a true Rune Smith O.C.C. that someone can play (all have been N.P.C., even the Splugorth Highlord with Rune Smith training can't make Rune Weapons) so I'd say no to this one.

What about an Undead Slayer?

Yep, #4 (moved to #5) on the list

Anti-Monster?

I'm not sure about this one...?Anyone elses thoughts on TW Borgs (Anti-Monster) and TW Juicers (Dragon Juicers)? Technically they don't cast spells, but have access to innate spell like abilities. I had originally classified the combat mage as using P.P.E. and these two don't really use it (save for the Dragon Juicer using TW items?) Anyone else have any thoughts on them?

Daniel Stoker wrote:

You still left out the Smoker from Manhunter.

Yeah, I haven't read through Manhunter (only skimmed it briefly) to know the full details on that O.C.C. any suggestions on the placement in the top 10 list?

[Joey Jo Jo Jr]

What do you guys think?

I think an Undead Slayer is better than a Maxi-man (no insanities)
and it depends on what kind of top ten you are talking about.

[Fyrpower]

A couple more to consider...

Paradox Shaman from Spirit West

Rune Warrior from South America 2

[DBX]

[/quote]

As of yet I have not seen a true Rune Smith O.C.C. that someone can play (all have been N.P.C., even the Splugorth Highlord with Rune Smith training can't make Rune Weapons) so I'd say no to this one.

[quote]

Asgardian Dwarves from Pantheons book are available as Player characters, and they can be a rune smith type occ.

they are hunted down and killed by splugorth or enslaved by them to make rune weapons for them, as they are one of the few other species that can make rune weapons

[DBX]

What about Mystically bestowed and Mystic Object/Weapon from HU2? Or are we dealing exclusively with Rifts only?
What about a combat oriented Alchemist with thier own Rune weaponry?
What about an Undead Slayer?
Anti-Monster?

i knew i ha dforgotten one of them!!

if you including non rifts, then Mystically Bestowed is up there with 7th lvl t-man with invulnerability tattoo.

IMO: in power terms i would go with these two and possibly Sea Inquisitor and maybe warlock marines. but in BEST terms it would be Demon Queller,Warlock Marines and Apok.

[Greg Diaczyk]

Sorry, just Rifts combat mages, so no cross overs from Nightbane, Heroes, etc.

Also the consensus seams to indicates no magical constructs/creatures. (i.e. Anti-Monsters, Dragon Juicers)

Redefining/clarifying the top 10 combat mages as:

Any warrior class (must have Hand to Hand: Expert, Martial Arts or another advanced combat form as an O.C.C. skill, focused on combat in general orientation) and must use thir P.P.E. to produce magical/spell like effects for combat.

Fyrpower wrote:

A couple more to consider...

Paradox Shaman from Spirit West

Rune Warrior from South America 2

Paradox Shamans... possibly, though I might consider these more of a support mage (do they start with H to H: Expert or better? Have combat orientation? sorry can't check my books right now.

Rune Warrior, don't have my book with me but aren't they just supped up with Nazca tattoos and have a magic staff, they don't really use P.P.E. to cast magic?

DBX wrote:

Asgardian Dwarves from Pantheons book are available as Player characters, and they can be a rune smith type occ.

they are hunted down and killed by splugorth or enslaved by them to make rune weapons for them, as they are one of the few other species that can make rune weapons

Yeah I remember them now, they are supposed to be a GM tool, and though the Rune Smith O.C.C. is mentioned, no real write up is given for it... So I'm inclined to think no for this one.


With this thinking in line, what does everyone think about the Vanguard (as outlined in SoT3, not the Adventure book, as in SOT3 they could take Ley Line Walker, Mystic, TW or Conjurer and start with Hand to Hand: Martial Art with the selection of only one other skill)?

[Guest]

Here is My List as I see it.

1. Battle Magus
2. Tattooed Undead Slayer
3. Mystic Knight
4. Temporal Warrior
5. Tattooed Archer
6. Tattooed Maxi-Man
7. Demon Queller
8. Mystic Kuznya
9. Song Juicer
10. Combat Techno-Wizard (Rifter)

I agree with this one more then the others.

[Sureshot]

What should be interesting to see is the Combat Mage Occ which is going to appear in the upcoming Rifts Mercenary Adventures book. I wonder what they will be able to do?

[Nekira Sudacne]

The most powerful spellcaster is the Elightened Immortal

[Gomen_Nagai]

Fire/water fusionists are the kings of combat with that fire storm ability ... by 10th lvl 10 10d6 firebolts for 6 ppe and fire cloak shielding for 250 mdc for 3 ppe..

and that's with a single melee action. .. by 10th they have 6 or so attacks and they can do 6d6x100 Md!
... throw in that Nova spell from rifter 9.. and tehy can do 6d6 x 10 MD to a 2000ft radius

[Greg Diaczyk]

Had a chance to check out my books last night.

Rune Warrior is definitely in, they have a base P.P.E. and use it to power up their drawering (...My name is Simon and and like to do drawerings...)

Paradox Shamans, though powerful I would not classify as a combat mage. Now the Totem Warrior and Spirit Warriors would be a definite yes.

Sea Inquistors are a psionic "upgrade", like the Psyscape bonuses, so no I would not consider this an O.C.C. on it's own, even if you did add this one any of the combat mage O.C.C.'s could have it.

Now I've been noting allot of Tattoo variants, do we want to lump them into one grouping or call them out in order of the top 10 list?

[Greg Diaczyk]

Extending the discussion on the T-Men variants:

We have:

Chiang Ku (Hatchling) Tattoo Master
True Atlantean Undead Slayer
Sunaj
Maxi-Men
Gun Brother (Bio-wizardry + tattoos)
T-Man
T-Monster-Man
T-Archer

Note I've placed them in what I think is the order of best/most powerful, any votes to lump them as one or keep their places on the top 10?

[DBX]

Extending the discussion on the T-Men variants:

We have:

Chiang Ku (Hatchling) Tattoo Master
True Atlantean Undead Slayer
Sunaj
Maxi-Men
Gun Brother (Bio-wizardry + tattoos)
T-Man
T-Monster-Man
T-Archer

Note I've placed them in what I think is the order of best/most powerful, any votes to lump them as one or keep their places on the top 10?

lump them as one because if they are 7th level or above and have invulnerability tattoo, it doesn't matter what type of t-man they are, because S.I's submit to them and be their *****.


for a species that invented tattooes, Chiang ku are **** at using them or appear that way as they are written in England book.

[Greg Diaczyk]

So here's another updated list with a few comments to justify their position feel free to comment or suggest changes in the order (or justification):

1. Mystic Knight: Impervious to Energy & Energy Manipulation, Spell Casting and Psionics
2. Battle Magus: W.P. Sharp Shooting, Spell Casting, Good Combat Skills, Pilot Automatons (basically robots/power armour)
3. Temporal Warrior: Auto Dodge & Heightened Reflexes, Temporal & Common Spells,
4. Demon Queller: Martial Art Body Hardening Abilities, Spell Casting and Hand to Hand: Kendo
5. Chiang-Ku (Hatchling) Tattoo Master: Dragon (metamorphosis (superior and mist), teleportation), Mystic Tattoos (can make them too!), Potions of Power and Deceit
6. True Atlantean Undead Slayer or Monster Hunter: True Atlantean, Mystic Tattoos
7. Spirit Warrior: Native American Heritage, 3 Powers (from Earth, Fire, Air, Water, Plant or Animal), plus a Greater Spirit Weapon.
8. Totem Warrior: Shape Shifting (animal and super animal), a few select animal related spells, minor psionics
9. Nazca Rune Warrior: Pattern Powers (similar to mystic tattoos), Magical Staff
10. Smoker: (Don’t have Manhunter, anyone what to fill this one in?)

Other Contenders:

Song Juicer: (sorry forget their specific abilities, I know their MDC and have bonus, but what else do they get?)
Sky-Knight: Cloud Magic
Elemental Fusionist: Control over either Fire/Water or Air/Earth Elemental magic
Controller Battle Magus: Lesser version of Battle Magus but they are focused on the Automations (magical robots/power armour)
Combat Techno-Wizard: (from Rifter or Ninja TW if you want something canon), with appropriate TW equipment
Demon & Monster or Serpent Slayer: (from Mystic Russia) Spell Caster, See through disguises/metamorphosis
Mystic Kuznya: Create magical MD weapons and armour, minor spell casting
Warlock Marine: Spell Casting ,Magical Power Armour
Maxi-Men: Mystic Tattoos
Sunaj: Mystic Tattoos, Psionics
T-Men: Mystic Tattoos
T-Monster-Man: Mystic Tattoos
Gun Brother: Bio-Wizardry upgrades and Mystic Tattoos
T-Archer: Mystic Tattoos
Witch: Bond with supernatural, spell casting abilities
Vanguard: SOT3 option for Ley Line Walker, TW, Mystic and Conjurer