On Rifts: Japan

[Jesterzzn]

Gamera is really neat.
Gamera's full of turtle meat.
We all love you, Gamera!

[MikelAmroni]

Give me a bit... I'm still getting over saying 'giant flying robot turtles' and 'practical' in the same breath.

Yeah....That's pretty much where you lost me. As I said before, I could SO see Ichto doing it, after all, they are the ones with the Tatsu. It fits their style and sense of grandeousity. I could see a "Dragon Turtle" Amphibious Assault carrier big enough to dwarf the already large Tatsu (12' wide, 105' long, can stand up to 50 ft high). The stated size of the Galapagos (70' high, 120' wide, 250' long) will do nicely. I could easily see Ichto having two or three of these in active use now, with more on the drawing board. This submersible type carrier would be a powerful troop mover, and very capable in the defense of the city and its kingdom. I think its price is pretty low, but then its troop capacity is downright tiny too. Its basically equal to a Death's Head Transport in terms of troop movement, and its slow and an easy target.

RoJ seems to be much more traditional in their methods. In fact their adoption of Nema power armor would suggest they likely use some of that same support methods. I don't have Chaos Earth, what sort of APCs and transport vehicles does NEMA have?

You are right, the Japanese do have better weapons tech than current Triax. My idea was based more on the idea that before the Cataclysm, Triax has a R&D office in Hiroshima, one that was working jointly with Armatech to build this new weapon system. Since this project was based in japan, and not Germany, nothing of it was lost, unlike anythign teh Germans may have had at home. The weapon I had in mind for the Vanquisher GB would come from this surviving branch of Triax, not Triax's home operations.

I'll agree the research wouldn't be lost, but their manufacturing would have been (aside from small scale prototype work). They could make alliances with japanese corporations, but they would have to have some major leverage to keep the local corps from absorbing them. So Armatech outsourcing a new PB (A long ranged variant? That's the only real advance I can think of that would be left in terms of PB tech) would make sense, but the manufacturing would still be Armatech, not Triax.

[MikelAmroni]

I'll agree the research wouldn't be lost, but their manufacturing would have been (aside from small scale prototype work). They could make alliances with japanese corporations, but they would have to have some major leverage to keep the local corps from absorbing them. So Armatech outsourcing a new PB (A long ranged variant? That's the only real advance I can think of that would be left in terms of PB tech) would make sense, but the manufacturing would still be Armatech, not Triax.

Or maybe this small triax branch managed to absorb some other small Japanese manufactureres who's home offices were outside the Rifted area.

It's still not a fully developed idea. just one I've been banging around in my head.

Oh, and the Beam Cannon, yeah, long range is ONE of it's functions...

Actually that'd be an interesting bit to develop. What non-Japanese based corps are present in the RoJ and Ichto? KLS would have offices and possibly a research center. Triax definately, Cyberworks, who else?

Yeah longe range at lower damage (matching the Boom Gun in range) and equal or greater damage at short range. It always confused me after the Destroids in Robotech, why the P-Beams in Rifts were so short range. Of course the power requirements are such that it would almost need its own small power source just to make it work (and why a GB would be needed - you'd replace the jet pack use to stablize the suit during firing with a power pack for a long range P-Beam).

[The Galactus Kid]

I'll agree the research wouldn't be lost, but their manufacturing would have been (aside from small scale prototype work). They could make alliances with japanese corporations, but they would have to have some major leverage to keep the local corps from absorbing them. So Armatech outsourcing a new PB (A long ranged variant? That's the only real advance I can think of that would be left in terms of PB tech) would make sense, but the manufacturing would still be Armatech, not Triax.

Or maybe this small triax branch managed to absorb some other small Japanese manufactureres who's home offices were outside the Rifted area.

It's still not a fully developed idea. just one I've been banging around in my head.

Oh, and the Beam Cannon, yeah, long range is ONE of it's functions...

Actually that'd be an interesting bit to develop. What non-Japanese based corps are present in the RoJ and Ichto? KLS would have offices and possibly a research center. Triax definately, Cyberworks, who else?

Yeah longe range at lower damage (matching the Boom Gun in range) and equal or greater damage at short range. It always confused me after the Destroids in Robotech, why the P-Beams in Rifts were so short range. Of course the power requirements are such that it would almost need its own small power source just to make it work (and why a GB would be needed - you'd replace the jet pack use to stablize the suit during firing with a power pack for a long range P-Beam).

I always liked the idea of the Japanese puting new weapons on their glitterboys. the MBiLAR system was pretty cool, but if your oponent had impervious to energy, then you're screwed. This is something that I think the Japanese would have accounted for and created an entire aresenal of new weapons for their glitterboys or other power armor.

[gaby]

I think ther needs to be a Japan 2,I like to see some NPC,s.

Any ideas for them?

[The Galactus Kid]

If you read in the book, we were promised a Japan 2. Only it was a Palladium Promise, so... yeah.

Working on it.

[The Galactus Kid]

If you read in the book, we were promised a Japan 2. Only it was a Palladium Promise, so... yeah.

Working on it.

Thank you for working on Japan 2.

Can you tell us how long it will be.

Until it is done or how long the book will be?

[keir451]

my twin brother (who occasionally posts here under the name theblackprince) actually expressed the opposite emotions. he thought Wb:japan was decently done (he was critical of the over use of ninja's and samurai), but he was quite disappointed that aside from the tengu and the oni, very little of the mythology and folklore of japan was included.

my brother is a big fan of real world japan, and has actually travelled there, and he expressed the beleif that (aside from the over use of ninja and samurai), the groups portrayed in the WB are plausible extropolations of modern japanese culture, albiet highly americanized portrayals. and he even liked the traditionalist ninja and samurai, it was mainly the tech ones he didn't like.


his main complaints were things like "where are the kappa? the kitsune? the kodama?"

japan has a rich mythology and folklore to draw stuff from, but the WB barely scratched the surface of it.

( Sound of Applause) I totally agree, I'm an Anime fan, but I really want more of the ACTUAL Japanese culture in Rifts Japan, not an Americanized version. I spent two years in Japan and love the very rich culture they have above and beyond my interest in anime.

[The Galactus Kid]

my twin brother (who occasionally posts here under the name theblackprince) actually expressed the opposite emotions. he thought Wb:japan was decently done (he was critical of the over use of ninja's and samurai), but he was quite disappointed that aside from the tengu and the oni, very little of the mythology and folklore of japan was included.

my brother is a big fan of real world japan, and has actually travelled there, and he expressed the beleif that (aside from the over use of ninja and samurai), the groups portrayed in the WB are plausible extropolations of modern japanese culture, albiet highly americanized portrayals. and he even liked the traditionalist ninja and samurai, it was mainly the tech ones he didn't like.


his main complaints were things like "where are the kappa? the kitsune? the kodama?"

japan has a rich mythology and folklore to draw stuff from, but the WB barely scratched the surface of it.

( Sound of Applause) I totally agree, I'm an Anime fan, but I really want more of the ACTUAL Japanese culture in Rifts Japan, not an Americanized version. I spent two years in Japan and love the very rich culture they have above and beyond my interest in anime.

Then you all won't be disappointed. We're going to really dive into the mythology and folklore as well as touching on the realm of the Gods to the north.

[The Galactus Kid]

If you read in the book, we were promised a Japan 2. Only it was a Palladium Promise, so... yeah.

Working on it.

Thank you for working on Japan 2.

Can you tell us how long it will be.

Until it is done or how long the book will be?

until it is done

Hopefully, we'll have a good chunk knocked out by the end of the year so we can hope that we can have it in to Palladium by early spring.

[Lenwen]

Africa...nothing of redeaming value setting wise, in my opinion. Some cool magic ideas though.

I was sorely disappointed in Rifts Africa myself.

They should have made the book at LEAST as thick as the NGR or Undersea's book .. And actually shown us more about the Pheonix Empire.

Especially since it is supposedly one of the baddest empires on Rifts Earth ..

[keir451]

Japan has a great mythology, it has a rich historical record, it has a bit of a unique societal structure, and all that could have been used to great effect. Some of it got some play in the japan book, but there was too much focus, in my opinion, on the cliche ninja juicer, ninja borg, ninja crazy, ect, ect.

Well, New West added cyborg, juicer and psychic gunslingers. England added arthurian stuff. Ninjas are as iconic, if not more, than Cowboys, it would be odd to leave them out.

I didn't say leave them out, I just said they recieved too much focus. I disliked New West for many of the same reasons I disliked Japan.

What I didn't want was for them to just give me all the tired cliches from every anime in existence rifterized in MDC.

whoah, what!? I was kinda bothered by the total lack of anime cliches in Rifts: Japan!

Mecha: Rifts Japan just uses north american mecha, that was really dissapointing for me.
Where are the HOT BLOODED mecha pilots using gigantic robots built by their grandfather fighting against the evil Monster Robot Empire?
What do you mean the SAMAS and Glitterboy can't shoot their fists with a ROCKETTO PAAANCH!! ?

First, the "every anime in existance" line was hyperbole. I knew it would be the first thing some people were drawn to, but I said it anyway.
Now, to me, the two biggest anime cliche's (and remember we are talking about settings here) are the Feudal Japan setting overrun by demons/monsters...check. And the high tech westernized super city overrun by demons/monsters...ALSO check. Rifts Japans (as it should have been titled) tries to give both typical anime settings within an island smaller than California. Both are underdeveloped and both are rather bland as written.

On the other hand, corporate espionage ninja cyborgs are from Robocop.
If anything, my problem with Rifts Japan is it's kinda American-view-of-Japan, and doesn't exploit enough from anime/manga/etc.

The irony of this is that Americanized Japan is exactly what most anime is. Very very few anime show uniquely Japanese culture as it is, rather they glorify to the point of hyperbole (either as homage or as satire) the americanization of japanese culture after WWII. The genre has grown up some since its roots as a stylized derivitive of Disney's, but it remains a very western slanted view of Japan. Rifts Japan is alot like that too.

Actually most Japanese anime DO show the unique cultural side of japan, you just need to know what to look for, now unlike Alexander, I'm not a self proclaimed expert on anime or Japanese culture(thank the gods for that), but with the rich cultural refernces in most anime(not all just most) you could easily fill in the blanks left by KS and crew. Examples of this fact are such animes as "You're Under Arrest", "Kimagure Orange Road", even "Ranma 1/2". Using a couple of books titled "What's Japanese in Japanese Animation" I've discovered the wealth of Japanese culture hidden in plain sight in most anime. Rifts Japan is just KS's take on the area for his own game (he hadn't even seen Bubblegum Crisis when he started creating what would become Rifts, wanting to call it "Boomers" after the GB railgun) with this much info at my beck and call I've found it easy to even do some of the cliched stuff for Rifts Japan.

[Jesterzzn]

Actually most Japanese anime DO show the unique cultural side of japan, you just need to know what to look for, now unlike Alexander, I'm not a self proclaimed expert on anime or Japanese culture(thank the gods for that), but with the rich cultural refernces in most anime(not all just most) you could easily fill in the blanks left by KS and crew. Examples of this fact are such animes as "You're Under Arrest", "Kimagure Orange Road", even "Ranma 1/2". Using a couple of books titled "What's Japanese in Japanese Animation" I've discovered the wealth of Japanese culture hidden in plain sight in most anime. Rifts Japan is just KS's take on the area for his own game (he hadn't even seen Bubblegum Crisis when he started creating what would become Rifts, wanting to call it "Boomers" after the GB railgun) with this much info at my beck and call I've found it easy to even do some of the cliched stuff for Rifts Japan.

Right, so if we purchase a book on finding Japanese hidden within anime, or possess experience with the Japanese in general beyond that of the average person, we will see that Japanese culture is well displayed within anime?

Do you not see how that further illustrates my point? Anime, and Rifts Japan, at face value, are not about Japanese culture. They are about the mostly fictional representation of Japanese culture you find in post-WWII Japanese entertainment. The former helped to create the latter, so of course elements are present. And sure, if you have outside sources of information you can pick out which is which, but that's also part of the point. The book doesn't stand on its own, and mirrors most anime in this regard, as an accurate depiction of Japanese culture. At least not unless you have a cliff notes, or personal experience, to show which parts are real and which parts are bastardized.

Now, there is nothing inherently wrong with using the anime culture in the books. It's just not my cup of tea.

[Jesterzzn]

Well see, here's the deal. You're dealing with Rifts Earth. So no matter what you do, the setting WILL BE overrun by demons and monsters. If that bothers you, this may not be the game for you. KS did not follow any particular Anime Cliche when he wrote Rifts Japan, he followed Rifts Cliches. The entire freaking PLANET is beset with demons and monsters! What did you expect?

I already addressed this, but sure, why not again.

It was the perfect opportunity to go a different direction. To buck the cliche, as was done when he developed several other major regions. Re-read the original post. I thought I set that up rather clearly.

[keir451]

Well see, here's the deal. You're dealing with Rifts Earth. So no matter what you do, the setting WILL BE overrun by demons and monsters. If that bothers you, this may not be the game for you. KS did not follow any particular Anime Cliche when he wrote Rifts Japan, he followed Rifts Cliches. The entire freaking PLANET is beset with demons and monsters! What did you expect?

And there are plenty of non-North American mecha designs! Check me on this, but I recall precisely three GB variants and a SAMAS variant, everything else was homegrown. I would like to have seen some vehicles and aircraft, though. I felt that was a major omission from the material given. Ships, too. Japan is an island nation and it lives or dies by its capacity to import and export goods. The Coming of the Rifts won't change that fact.

I, too, would have liked to see some more vehicles or aircraft esp. in the tech cities. I realize that KS didn't follow any Anime cliches for Rifts Japan, that is actually a good thing, as it leaves room for the rest of us, but when running a game set in the New Empire which is set to be Feudal era Japan where does one get your cultural references from. How do you describe the goings on in the Tech cities. You can't use American standards as they don't fit (these aren't your normal Rifts tech cities as they are pre-Rifts, not current Rifts).
For Japan to try to trade across the ocean they need a full fledged naval presence to protect their ships, as well as knowledge that anything else actually exists out there.
The evidence of Japanese culture in anime is always evident, we, as Americans don't always know it when we see it. All the book does is point it out. Such simple things as a character saying sempai, or addressing a person as chan, or kun are prime examples of Japanese culture.

[The Galactus Kid]

Jesterzzn, your OP was four pages and eight months ago, I know you're likely rather proud of it but I'm not re-reading this entire thread everytime it gets necromanced from the grave.

As for who is out there to trade with, there's Tritonia somewhere out there and the various Warlords of Russia. Through the Warlords or Sovietski they could learn about the NGR and If Japan is feeling particularly ambitious, they could try contacting Melbourne and Perth down in Australia.

The thing is, even with ley line storms eating a lot of radio transmissions up, some transmissions from these powers will still get through. A radio transmission isn't e-mail. It doesn't go to one specific place. Once you send the transmission, anyone listening for it can hear it and there are a LOT of high tech enclaves that will be carelessly sending transmissions around willy-nilly because they're under the delusion that they're all that's left and no one out there is listening.

The Warlords are in western russia and would be totally out of contact with Japan.

[Jesterzzn]

Jesterzzn, your OP was four pages and eight months ago, I know you're likely rather proud of it but I'm not re-reading this entire thread everytime it gets necromanced from the grave.

Sorry, I made the mistake of thinking you were replying to my post.

When you were saying "what did you expect?" to whom were you speaking?

[Crucible]

I actually felt that Japan was doable and not too bad. Most Carella books I'm seriously partial to, which is why I went to Eden.

My biggest irritations are...Alien Intelligences, but far more than that Rifts Africa. MAN!!! I immediately got the idea that a lot of work was NOT put into that book at all. Major stereotype uh uh. Even South America and Mexico got more love.

Thought for sure by the 22nd (almost 22nd) century before the cataclysm, Africa would be in a better situation. Also there was notech, the magic was OKAY, and the "RCC's" actually were a little flat.

If any book needs retooling its Africa.

The Phoenix Empire??? Shah! Yeah right! Kwushi Ihe Ahu...

[keir451]

Well see, here's the deal. You're dealing with Rifts Earth. So no matter what you do, the setting WILL BE overrun by demons and monsters. If that bothers you, this may not be the game for you. KS did not follow any particular Anime Cliche when he wrote Rifts Japan, he followed Rifts Cliches. The entire freaking PLANET is beset with demons and monsters! What did you expect?

And there are plenty of non-North American mecha designs! Check me on this, but I recall precisely three GB variants and a SAMAS variant, everything else was homegrown. I would like to have seen some vehicles and aircraft, though. I felt that was a major omission from the material given. Ships, too. Japan is an island nation and it lives or dies by its capacity to import and export goods. The Coming of the Rifts won't change that fact.

Question.

What would it take to be able to actually trade across the Pacific? Say, for instance, that Japan were going to try ro trade (at least some) with a (theoretical) nation on the western side of the Americas?

The oceans are very big and are the possible pathways so filled with monsters, etc. that trade would be impossible?

Japan would need to build it's own navy or, possibly, make contact w/ the New Navy(IMO), that way they could protect their ships.
But first they'd have to realize that there is such a plce to trade with in the first place and according to current canon they don't know alot about the rest of the world just yet.

[keir451]

Have The Warlords, the sovietski or the NGR Radio Systems capable of getting a reliable communications with Japan and has Japan the means to answer?

Why should they´ve them?

(IMO) I would beleive that at the very least the Sovietski and NGR would have radio systems capable of getting reliable communications with Japan, providing the're even aware of Japan in the first place, and yes Japan more than likely has the means to answer, again providing knowledge of either of the above. The Warlords probably could if they ever discovered Japan or stopped fighting each other long enough to look beyond their personal boundaries long enough to look into other countries.
The big thing is the "if they're aware" factor, w/out any of the above being truly aware of each other then no one will be radioing anyone deliberately for awhile.

[Balabanto]

I actually felt that Japan was doable and not too bad. Most Carella books I'm seriously partial to, which is why I went to Eden.

My biggest irritations are...Alien Intelligences, but far more than that Rifts Africa. MAN!!! I immediately got the idea that a lot of work was NOT put into that book at all. Major stereotype uh uh. Even South America and Mexico got more love.

Thought for sure by the 22nd (almost 22nd) century before the cataclysm, Africa would be in a better situation. Also there was notech, the magic was OKAY, and the "RCC's" actually were a little flat.

If any book needs retooling its Africa.

The Phoenix Empire??? Shah! Yeah right! Kwushi Ihe Ahu...

I'm with you on this. The total lack of real african cultures in Rifts Africa was not only disappointing, but bordering on racism. Please don't take offense at my opinion, it's just what I observed.

What I'd like to see in Rifts Africa 2.

1) The Ape Kingdom. This is briefly mentioned in one random place somewhere, but quite frankly, since EVERYTHING in Sci-Fi sells better with apes, this is kind of a must.

2) A real Zulu or Kenyan Empire similar to the ones that existed prior to the so-called taming of the "Dark Continent" by a bunch of freebooting pirates otherwise known as the Europeans.

3) A group of free cities down around where South Africa used to be that practice techno-wizardry and the like. All those gemstones need to start serving a purpose, and DeBeers corporation holds eighty percent of the world's diamonds in an impenetrable vault there. This should be a situation rife with political intrigue and local warfare, and it should be clustered with D-Bees.

4) More on Africa's elven population, which is also mentioned in passing but not really covered in much detail.

[Shark_Force]

iirc, the NGR has limited awareness of russia. at the very least, the GMG indicates that the NGR now makes some of the same gear you can find in russia.

[gaby]

the Gargoyle and Brokdkil empires Prevent the NGR from going East,if the War between the Brokdkil and Gargoyle happed and the former i s wipe out and the later have a mass lost the NGR may help Good Warlords with a Tech boost.


Yes Africa needed far more,D-Bees,Kingdoms and Other things.

I hope thers a Japan 2,that have Npc,s in it and map of New Empire and Repbulic,s Lands.
maybe some New Monsters.

Any ideas?

[Crucible]

Yeah, I always thought that there would be another book on Africa. Right now, the book is radioactive to me. I don't really touch it unless I'm looking to see if I missed something. The Igbo of Nigeria, the Dogons, Bantu tribes, a Zulu Nation would have worked.

I think in terms of PA struggle, so even though Africa is a continent and NOT a country I can see how hard it would be to make anything work. I have to wonder though if there being a PA type situation if people would FIND a way to fight. Many of those nations have ousted their conquerors. I don't see how they would not survive. Voodoo is pretty wide-spread but is a bit of a taboo considering most places are Christians and in our beliefs most tribes of Africa originated from one people and are the lost tribe of Israel. Especially Ethiopia. Please go to Wikipedia.org and see Igbo. Look at a few Nigerian and North African cities.

I would think that many would band together to create some sort of human, or human/D-Bee civ. The people are NOT gullible or weak to have only Mind Bleeders, Pygmies, Voodoo, and Priests around.

I actually expected no less than Warlords, which are common NOW, possibly Diamond-Based weapons making the Diamonds powered from the clustered mines...only in Africa. Maybe a few Atlantean tribes (we don't rely on Greek scholars to tell us that Atlantis is real...its coraborated through our basic cultures.

I thought about Beastmasters, sort of like the Blood Riders in South America. Hello, there is enough contact between Africa and Europe (exodus's both ways) to have lead me to believe that Triax would have possibly had a Factory and military base to protect it somewhere in the Northern Half of Africa.

Nigerians have a legend about the Azubuike (ah-ZOO-beekay) that when the end comes these would gain the strength of the continent and defend the people. Those who believe in this name a son usually born in the early spring (Aries) this name for his power and protection. One of my sons born April 7th is named as such. The word means: The strength is in the back, but to us it means: Warrior that does not fall on his back. We do not have a word for Knight. This would be our version.

Azubuike: I thought that as long as they stayed in Nigeria they would benefit from something like Extraordinary PS, PE, and PP. Maybe some regeneration.

In short, I was sure that there would be more. Japan and China are most known for dragons, but we believe in them as well. Serpent people, reptile people (may be the reason for Black people's fear of snakes). Serpent Gods, mostly evil and tricksters. The Dogons worship them. Maybe they would have Serprent Priests.

The book was very vague and generalized and felt incomplete. Most of us do not care about the old Egyptian Gods and such...many of us do believe that they were here. We translate the Bible as such (see Genesis about the Nephilim).

So many cultures, countries, languages, backgrounds, and ideas. I thought there would have been more than Pygmies. They are quite rare and not spoken of by anyone outside of America.

[The Galactus Kid]

The New German Republic, the Sovietski, and the Republic of Japan all have cutting edge pre-rifts communications equipment. So does the Geofront in China, for that matter. The NGR also has a sizable navy with massive submersible aircraft carriers and escort battleships that lets them go pretty much wherever they please. Of course the lion's share of those forces are being committed to the Gargoyle Empire war, but it would make zero sense to assume none of them are detailed to exploring the rest of the planet. Even a single NGR Poseidon-class subcarrier would easily be able to handle most exploratory duties the NGR could want to carry out. And quite honestly, if the NGR is as hard-pressed against the Gargoyles and Brodkils as the hype says they are, they'd be damned fools not to be out there looking for allies or fallback positions.

It's also worth mentioning that the Polish kingdom of Tarnow appears to have a significant naval presence as well. Granted their ships seem more geared for trade than just about anyone else's. That fact alone will make them likely to go looking for trading partners. No telling what sort of discoveries they might be making out there.

I think your right on the money, there should be some trade and relations between nations that are close to on another. Japan and one or two of the Russian worlords and maybe japan and Austrailia, they would makee great adventures for a group of PC's to establish relations. It seems only the CS has been able to do good international trade, having Columbia and the NGR as trading partners.

Triax trades with England, the CS, the Sovietski, some of the Warlords, and pretty much anyone who has money or goods to spend or trade. Japan, can't trade with russia since the warlords are in western russia and are blocked from doing so by monster infested wasteland east of the Urals. Right now, Japans only potential trading partners would be the NGR if contact is made more consistant or australia.

[Crucible]

It's worth noting that a second Japan book was promised to us, but SOMEONE thought firing C.J. Carella was a good idea..

Personally I liked most of CJs work, but I dont know why he was fired. Hes been doing a pagan book called witchcraft and a gurps book called imperial rome. Interesting I always liked how he was into Rome and all that ancient latin stuff.
In Japan I liked how there was the Ottoman Shogunate Tech Ninja polluters, I think of these guys as having smoke billowing factories and toxic waste lying around in every alleyway. This place was even hit by the oni and I would think part of it is still in ruins.
Then there was the New Empire, these guys were tradisionalist and thought of the Ottoman Shogunate and technology is evil, I could see why because the shogunate dont seem to clean up very well.

Its not hard to like most of the works. I actually liked Japan okay, somethings had been left out and the fact that Ninja are portrayed as base assassins is a little off.