Re: On Rifts: Japan
Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 5:40 am
Gamera is really neat.
Gamera's full of turtle meat.
We all love you, Gamera!
Gamera's full of turtle meat.
We all love you, Gamera!
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Daniel2112 wrote:Give me a bit... I'm still getting over saying 'giant flying robot turtles' and 'practical' in the same breath.
vampire_hunter_D wrote:You are right, the Japanese do have better weapons tech than current Triax. My idea was based more on the idea that before the Cataclysm, Triax has a R&D office in Hiroshima, one that was working jointly with Armatech to build this new weapon system. Since this project was based in japan, and not Germany, nothing of it was lost, unlike anythign teh Germans may have had at home. The weapon I had in mind for the Vanquisher GB would come from this surviving branch of Triax, not Triax's home operations.
vampire_hunter_D wrote:MikelAmroni wrote:
I'll agree the research wouldn't be lost, but their manufacturing would have been (aside from small scale prototype work). They could make alliances with japanese corporations, but they would have to have some major leverage to keep the local corps from absorbing them. So Armatech outsourcing a new PB (A long ranged variant? That's the only real advance I can think of that would be left in terms of PB tech) would make sense, but the manufacturing would still be Armatech, not Triax.
Or maybe this small triax branch managed to absorb some other small Japanese manufactureres who's home offices were outside the Rifted area.
It's still not a fully developed idea. just one I've been banging around in my head.
Oh, and the Beam Cannon, yeah, long range is ONE of it's functions...
MikelAmroni wrote:vampire_hunter_D wrote:MikelAmroni wrote:
I'll agree the research wouldn't be lost, but their manufacturing would have been (aside from small scale prototype work). They could make alliances with japanese corporations, but they would have to have some major leverage to keep the local corps from absorbing them. So Armatech outsourcing a new PB (A long ranged variant? That's the only real advance I can think of that would be left in terms of PB tech) would make sense, but the manufacturing would still be Armatech, not Triax.
Or maybe this small triax branch managed to absorb some other small Japanese manufactureres who's home offices were outside the Rifted area.
It's still not a fully developed idea. just one I've been banging around in my head.
Oh, and the Beam Cannon, yeah, long range is ONE of it's functions...
Actually that'd be an interesting bit to develop. What non-Japanese based corps are present in the RoJ and Ichto? KLS would have offices and possibly a research center. Triax definately, Cyberworks, who else?
Yeah longe range at lower damage (matching the Boom Gun in range) and equal or greater damage at short range. It always confused me after the Destroids in Robotech, why the P-Beams in Rifts were so short range. Of course the power requirements are such that it would almost need its own small power source just to make it work (and why a GB would be needed - you'd replace the jet pack use to stablize the suit during firing with a power pack for a long range P-Beam).
Daniel2112 wrote:If you read in the book, we were promised a Japan 2. Only it was a Palladium Promise, so... yeah.
Munchkin Slappin GM wrote:The Galactus Kid wrote:Daniel2112 wrote:If you read in the book, we were promised a Japan 2. Only it was a Palladium Promise, so... yeah.
Working on it.
Thank you for working on Japan 2.
Can you tell us how long it will be.
glitterboy2098 wrote:my twin brother (who occasionally posts here under the name theblackprince) actually expressed the opposite emotions. he thought Wb:japan was decently done (he was critical of the over use of ninja's and samurai), but he was quite disappointed that aside from the tengu and the oni, very little of the mythology and folklore of japan was included.
my brother is a big fan of real world japan, and has actually travelled there, and he expressed the beleif that (aside from the over use of ninja and samurai), the groups portrayed in the WB are plausible extropolations of modern japanese culture, albiet highly americanized portrayals. and he even liked the traditionalist ninja and samurai, it was mainly the tech ones he didn't like.
his main complaints were things like "where are the kappa? the kitsune? the kodama?"
japan has a rich mythology and folklore to draw stuff from, but the WB barely scratched the surface of it.
keir451 wrote:glitterboy2098 wrote:my twin brother (who occasionally posts here under the name theblackprince) actually expressed the opposite emotions. he thought Wb:japan was decently done (he was critical of the over use of ninja's and samurai), but he was quite disappointed that aside from the tengu and the oni, very little of the mythology and folklore of japan was included.
my brother is a big fan of real world japan, and has actually travelled there, and he expressed the beleif that (aside from the over use of ninja and samurai), the groups portrayed in the WB are plausible extropolations of modern japanese culture, albiet highly americanized portrayals. and he even liked the traditionalist ninja and samurai, it was mainly the tech ones he didn't like.
his main complaints were things like "where are the kappa? the kitsune? the kodama?"
japan has a rich mythology and folklore to draw stuff from, but the WB barely scratched the surface of it.
( Sound of Applause) I totally agree, I'm an Anime fan, but I really want more of the ACTUAL Japanese culture in Rifts Japan, not an Americanized version. I spent two years in Japan and love the very rich culture they have above and beyond my interest in anime.
Munchkin Slappin GM wrote:The Galactus Kid wrote:Munchkin Slappin GM wrote:The Galactus Kid wrote:Daniel2112 wrote:If you read in the book, we were promised a Japan 2. Only it was a Palladium Promise, so... yeah.
Working on it.
Thank you for working on Japan 2.
Can you tell us how long it will be.
Until it is done or how long the book will be?
until it is done
Jesterzzn wrote:Africa...nothing of redeaming value setting wise, in my opinion. Some cool magic ideas though.
Jesterzzn wrote:I didn't say leave them out, I just said they recieved too much focus. I disliked New West for many of the same reasons I disliked Japan.Kikkoman wrote:Well, New West added cyborg, juicer and psychic gunslingers. England added arthurian stuff. Ninjas are as iconic, if not more, than Cowboys, it would be odd to leave them out.Jesterzzn wrote: Japan has a great mythology, it has a rich historical record, it has a bit of a unique societal structure, and all that could have been used to great effect. Some of it got some play in the japan book, but there was too much focus, in my opinion, on the cliche ninja juicer, ninja borg, ninja crazy, ect, ect.First, the "every anime in existance" line was hyperbole. I knew it would be the first thing some people were drawn to, but I said it anyway.Jesterzzn wrote: What I didn't want was for them to just give me all the tired cliches from every anime in existence rifterized in MDC.
whoah, what!? I was kinda bothered by the total lack of anime cliches in Rifts: Japan!
Mecha: Rifts Japan just uses north american mecha, that was really dissapointing for me.
Where are the HOT BLOODED mecha pilots using gigantic robots built by their grandfather fighting against the evil Monster Robot Empire?
What do you mean the SAMAS and Glitterboy can't shoot their fists with a ROCKETTO PAAANCH!! ?
Now, to me, the two biggest anime cliche's (and remember we are talking about settings here) are the Feudal Japan setting overrun by demons/monsters...check. And the high tech westernized super city overrun by demons/monsters...ALSO check. Rifts Japans (as it should have been titled) tries to give both typical anime settings within an island smaller than California. Both are underdeveloped and both are rather bland as written.The irony of this is that Americanized Japan is exactly what most anime is. Very very few anime show uniquely Japanese culture as it is, rather they glorify to the point of hyperbole (either as homage or as satire) the americanization of japanese culture after WWII. The genre has grown up some since its roots as a stylized derivitive of Disney's, but it remains a very western slanted view of Japan. Rifts Japan is alot like that too.On the other hand, corporate espionage ninja cyborgs are from Robocop.
If anything, my problem with Rifts Japan is it's kinda American-view-of-Japan, and doesn't exploit enough from anime/manga/etc.
Right, so if we purchase a book on finding Japanese hidden within anime, or possess experience with the Japanese in general beyond that of the average person, we will see that Japanese culture is well displayed within anime?keir451 wrote:Actually most Japanese anime DO show the unique cultural side of japan, you just need to know what to look for, now unlike Alexander, I'm not a self proclaimed expert on anime or Japanese culture(thank the gods for that), but with the rich cultural refernces in most anime(not all just most) you could easily fill in the blanks left by KS and crew. Examples of this fact are such animes as "You're Under Arrest", "Kimagure Orange Road", even "Ranma 1/2". Using a couple of books titled "What's Japanese in Japanese Animation" I've discovered the wealth of Japanese culture hidden in plain sight in most anime. Rifts Japan is just KS's take on the area for his own game (he hadn't even seen Bubblegum Crisis when he started creating what would become Rifts, wanting to call it "Boomers" after the GB railgun) with this much info at my beck and call I've found it easy to even do some of the cliched stuff for Rifts Japan.
I already addressed this, but sure, why not again.Daniel2112 wrote:Well see, here's the deal. You're dealing with Rifts Earth. So no matter what you do, the setting WILL BE overrun by demons and monsters. If that bothers you, this may not be the game for you. KS did not follow any particular Anime Cliche when he wrote Rifts Japan, he followed Rifts Cliches. The entire freaking PLANET is beset with demons and monsters! What did you expect?
Daniel2112 wrote:Well see, here's the deal. You're dealing with Rifts Earth. So no matter what you do, the setting WILL BE overrun by demons and monsters. If that bothers you, this may not be the game for you. KS did not follow any particular Anime Cliche when he wrote Rifts Japan, he followed Rifts Cliches. The entire freaking PLANET is beset with demons and monsters! What did you expect?
And there are plenty of non-North American mecha designs! Check me on this, but I recall precisely three GB variants and a SAMAS variant, everything else was homegrown. I would like to have seen some vehicles and aircraft, though. I felt that was a major omission from the material given. Ships, too. Japan is an island nation and it lives or dies by its capacity to import and export goods. The Coming of the Rifts won't change that fact.
Daniel2112 wrote:Jesterzzn, your OP was four pages and eight months ago, I know you're likely rather proud of it but I'm not re-reading this entire thread everytime it gets necromanced from the grave.
As for who is out there to trade with, there's Tritonia somewhere out there and the various Warlords of Russia. Through the Warlords or Sovietski they could learn about the NGR and If Japan is feeling particularly ambitious, they could try contacting Melbourne and Perth down in Australia.
The thing is, even with ley line storms eating a lot of radio transmissions up, some transmissions from these powers will still get through. A radio transmission isn't e-mail. It doesn't go to one specific place. Once you send the transmission, anyone listening for it can hear it and there are a LOT of high tech enclaves that will be carelessly sending transmissions around willy-nilly because they're under the delusion that they're all that's left and no one out there is listening.
Sorry, I made the mistake of thinking you were replying to my post.Daniel2112 wrote:Jesterzzn, your OP was four pages and eight months ago, I know you're likely rather proud of it but I'm not re-reading this entire thread everytime it gets necromanced from the grave.
TheGrayRaven wrote:Daniel2112 wrote:Well see, here's the deal. You're dealing with Rifts Earth. So no matter what you do, the setting WILL BE overrun by demons and monsters. If that bothers you, this may not be the game for you. KS did not follow any particular Anime Cliche when he wrote Rifts Japan, he followed Rifts Cliches. The entire freaking PLANET is beset with demons and monsters! What did you expect?
And there are plenty of non-North American mecha designs! Check me on this, but I recall precisely three GB variants and a SAMAS variant, everything else was homegrown. I would like to have seen some vehicles and aircraft, though. I felt that was a major omission from the material given. Ships, too. Japan is an island nation and it lives or dies by its capacity to import and export goods. The Coming of the Rifts won't change that fact.
Question.
What would it take to be able to actually trade across the Pacific? Say, for instance, that Japan were going to try ro trade (at least some) with a (theoretical) nation on the western side of the Americas?
The oceans are very big and are the possible pathways so filled with monsters, etc. that trade would be impossible?
sword-dancer wrote:Have The Warlords, the sovietski or the NGR Radio Systems capable of getting a reliable communications with Japan and has Japan the means to answer?
Why should they´ve them?
Crucible wrote:I actually felt that Japan was doable and not too bad. Most Carella books I'm seriously partial to, which is why I went to Eden.
My biggest irritations are...Alien Intelligences, but far more than that Rifts Africa. MAN!!! I immediately got the idea that a lot of work was NOT put into that book at all. Major stereotype uh uh. Even South America and Mexico got more love.
Thought for sure by the 22nd (almost 22nd) century before the cataclysm, Africa would be in a better situation. Also there was notech, the magic was OKAY, and the "RCC's" actually were a little flat.
If any book needs retooling its Africa.
The Phoenix Empire??? Shah! Yeah right! Kwushi Ihe Ahu...
Munchkin Slappin GM wrote:Daniel2112 wrote:The New German Republic, the Sovietski, and the Republic of Japan all have cutting edge pre-rifts communications equipment. So does the Geofront in China, for that matter. The NGR also has a sizable navy with massive submersible aircraft carriers and escort battleships that lets them go pretty much wherever they please. Of course the lion's share of those forces are being committed to the Gargoyle Empire war, but it would make zero sense to assume none of them are detailed to exploring the rest of the planet. Even a single NGR Poseidon-class subcarrier would easily be able to handle most exploratory duties the NGR could want to carry out. And quite honestly, if the NGR is as hard-pressed against the Gargoyles and Brodkils as the hype says they are, they'd be damned fools not to be out there looking for allies or fallback positions.
It's also worth mentioning that the Polish kingdom of Tarnow appears to have a significant naval presence as well. Granted their ships seem more geared for trade than just about anyone else's. That fact alone will make them likely to go looking for trading partners. No telling what sort of discoveries they might be making out there.
I think your right on the money, there should be some trade and relations between nations that are close to on another. Japan and one or two of the Russian worlords and maybe japan and Austrailia, they would makee great adventures for a group of PC's to establish relations. It seems only the CS has been able to do good international trade, having Columbia and the NGR as trading partners.
gnome888 wrote:Daniel2112 wrote:It's worth noting that a second Japan book was promised to us, but SOMEONE thought firing C.J. Carella was a good idea..
Personally I liked most of CJs work, but I dont know why he was fired. Hes been doing a pagan book called witchcraft and a gurps book called imperial rome. Interesting I always liked how he was into Rome and all that ancient latin stuff.
In Japan I liked how there was the Ottoman Shogunate Tech Ninja polluters, I think of these guys as having smoke billowing factories and toxic waste lying around in every alleyway. This place was even hit by the oni and I would think part of it is still in ruins.
Then there was the New Empire, these guys were tradisionalist and thought of the Ottoman Shogunate and technology is evil, I could see why because the shogunate dont seem to clean up very well.