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Huh, good to see I am not the only one with what is apparently a common opinion on Burle's style.

Though my favourite artist for RIFTS has got to be Breaux, I really feel like he was the successor to Long for detail, realism, and capturing character. Perez is a great artist, but his 'good guys in tank tops' style doesn't do it for me for the realistic feel I like(d) about RIFTS.

Pepsi Jedi wrote:Oy, vey. Don't get me started on Burles "Palladium" art.

I will say his work went well with Lemuria.

Eashamahel wrote:I think you may have forgotten what exactly XI says about Lazlo's upcoming war with the Xiticix, their goals and outcome.

You are correct, been reading through it again the past few days. Most of my attention is usually on Tolkeen and my mind tends to assume a 'hippy filter' when considering what Lazlo is up to. They intend an all-out war with the bugs.

Eashamahel wrote:So yes, Lazlo would be exterminating the Xiticix, and after they were done ensuring the bug-men's race was doomed, the CS would be cleaning up the rest. But it's all ignored, because it doesn't fit into the story of the War on Tolkeen, which was written afterwards. I don't know how many others did this, but we actually played the Lazlo war against the Xiticix, it went exactly like the book said it did, and when the War on Tolkeen came out, well, we just gave up and rolled up new characters (thinking we were going to be able to play that as it was released as well) because it was impossible for both events to have occured.

That is still incorrect, however. The Xiticix Invasion does not have an "exactly like the book said it did", it gives you the likely outcomes of various events (some exclusive of others), but no timeline and no set events. It even references CS reactions from a during and post Tolkeen view. Your reference to SB1r is just an article reminding us about the fragile condition of 'civilization' in North America, in a book covering adventures and information pre-dating the Mechanoid invasion, along with events after the SoT, not a timeline of events. Even XI says that actually clearing the Hive Networks closest to them will be taken on by the CS in the wake of the Lazlo campaign, and doing a queen snipe on the hive next to their one-time friends in Tolkeen would get Tolkeen pressed by aggressive Xiticix activity during a war on an another front, and I can't picture Lazlo dicking Tolkeen over directly like that, no matter how much Tarn disapproves of their tactics.
No matter how you run it, it is certainly not impossible for both events to occur.

Eashamahel wrote:Huh, good to see I am not the only one with what is apparently a common opinion on Burle's style.

Though my favourite artist for RIFTS has got to be Breaux, I really feel like he was the successor to Long for detail, realism, and capturing character. Perez is a great artist, but his 'good guys in tank tops' style doesn't do it for me for the realistic feel I like(d) about RIFTS.

Lol, I'm just the opposite, with Perez my favorite for Rifts. I like Breaux, but not as much as Perez.

Course I also consider Burles Artwork in any of PB's releases as a reason NOT to buy it.

So, we're not really that opposite, I just have Breaux as #1 and Perez as #2, but the same about where Burle comes in. I was hoping to pick up Lemuria sometime soon (and by pick up I mean order online), but now I wonder how much of the art is his. His name isn't first on the list of artists, so hopefully that counts for something. Nothing hurts me as bad as the Reboot cover of Black Market though...

I've heard mostly good things about the interior, and will probably pick up the hardcover version of it eventually but i have to ask, does it have a scan of the soft cover picture inside the hardcover, Sourcebook 1: Revised style?



Also, I believe someone mentioned this already, but Coalition Navy has to place pretty high up there in the 'least' section. It's rarely referenced, doesn't seem to have any carryover to other books, and the only time you here about the waters of RIFTS earth it's either the oceans (where I seem to remember the CS has a minimal presence), or the great lakes, where the CS Navy get's devasted/embarassingly destroyed by Free Quebec or whatever other faction is out there. Is Coalition Navy also the basis for what Free Quebecs Navy is, with the same types of ships and power armour?

Eashamahel wrote:So, we're not really that opposite, I just have Breaux as #1 and Perez as #2, but the same about where Burle comes in. I was hoping to pick up Lemuria sometime soon (and by pick up I mean order online), but now I wonder how much of the art is his. His name isn't first on the list of artists, so hopefully that counts for something. Nothing hurts me as bad as the Reboot cover of Black Market though...

well, the thing is, if you miss out on lemuria because you're worried about the burle art, you'll also miss out on this guy's art, and that would be a real shame

Ha! Good sale, someone should put you on the payroll!

Rappanui wrote:despite the black market cover being nothing but bad poser art... it's still good book.

Thats the best description of the Black Market Cover Art ever!

I like some of Breaux's work, but definitely not all.
His robots in Japan, for instance...

For me it's Madhaven. I loved the cover art but the concept if NY/Manhattan just being an area that's effectively too dangerous for ANYONE to travel in and is filled with completely incomprehensible/inexplicable mutants just came across as too much BS for me to swallow. I could handle the massive tidal wave and much of the city being in ruin, but the pyschic scar that drives everyone insane EXCEPT for the Mystic knights hidig out i Centrsl Park just killed it for me.

I actually loved the psychic scar idea, nice to see Palladium finally use the 'haunted ruins' of the past to great effect. And I loved the cover art. And much of the info. The mutants kind of killed it for me though, I mean, those have got to be the most stable mutations of all time, somehow the human race drastically altered into nearly a dozen, consistantly replicating types... Most of which have Robotic PS... Was definately cool that they got the references to the Egyptian Gods in there though.

It'd have to be Skraypers for me. I think the average decent GM was more than capable already of integrating HU characters into Rifts or vice versa on their own, and we already had the Conversion Book. I know I'm in the minority, but I like Africa. The battle vs the Horsemen is a really cool "hero" level quest, and I think the Phoenix Empire has a ton of potential for being a big baddie adversary, they've just been largely ignored in Rifts canon ever since the book came out. I also looooove Australia. I haven't GMed in years, but I think it would be a really cool idea to rift in the Jakartans from AtB: Down Under to Indonesia and have them attempt to move into Northern Australia.

Armorlord wrote:

Pepsi Jedi wrote:Oy, vey. Don't get me started on Burles "Palladium" art.

I will say his work went well with Lemuria.

The funny thing as shown in some of the lemuria stuff he can do really nice human face drawings and his background/landscape stuff is pretty decent. It is just that a lot of his stuff gets sorta melty and mushy especially when doing any kind of tech drawing.

kaid wrote:

Armorlord wrote:

Pepsi Jedi wrote:Oy, vey. Don't get me started on Burles "Palladium" art.

I will say his work went well with Lemuria.

The funny thing as shown in some of the lemuria stuff he can do really nice human face drawings and his background/landscape stuff is pretty decent. It is just that a lot of his stuff gets sorta melty and mushy especially when doing any kind of tech drawing.

I didn't like his Lemuria stuff either. Generalized lumpy organic buildings and stuff isn't anything I got excited about. I'm not going to get my self in trouble by going into too much detail.

As for the last sentence of your post, I agree with that. Again, I'm not going to go into detail least I get in trouble.

Shark_Force wrote:

Eashamahel wrote:So, we're not really that opposite, I just have Breaux as #1 and Perez as #2, but the same about where Burle comes in. I was hoping to pick up Lemuria sometime soon (and by pick up I mean order online), but now I wonder how much of the art is his. His name isn't first on the list of artists, so hopefully that counts for something. Nothing hurts me as bad as the Reboot cover of Black Market though...

well, the thing is, if you miss out on lemuria because you're worried about the burle art, you'll also miss out on this guy's art, and that would be a real shame

Art in lemuria is overall pretty excellent. Lots of Chuck waltons work so if the art worries you it has way more good art than bad. And of the burle art in it it actually is some of his best work he can do really nice faces and portraits that don't involve the scenery melting.

Lemuria was a bit weak, China 1 and 2 didn't appeal to me at all, and Australia was a bust for me as well.

I like England, and Spirit West which a lot of people seem to have a problem with...

Overall, most palladium books are pretty good, which is probably why they have been in business so long. The one thing I refuse to buy is the Rifter though. It usually has about 6 decent pages and the rest is just junk to me, that means it's about $2 a useful page, no thanks, I will pass.

I wonder how much sales would jump on the Rifter if they offered it as a digital subscription at a discount. Half price and you get the PDF when the Physical rifter goes to press.

I expect many people that don't take the plunge for the physical subscription would do so digitally if able.

kaid wrote:

Shark_Force wrote:

Eashamahel wrote:So, we're not really that opposite, I just have Breaux as #1 and Perez as #2, but the same about where Burle comes in. I was hoping to pick up Lemuria sometime soon (and by pick up I mean order online), but now I wonder how much of the art is his. His name isn't first on the list of artists, so hopefully that counts for something. Nothing hurts me as bad as the Reboot cover of Black Market though...

well, the thing is, if you miss out on lemuria because you're worried about the burle art, you'll also miss out on this guy's art, and that would be a real shame

Art in lemuria is overall pretty excellent. Lots of Chuck waltons work so if the art worries you it has way more good art than bad. And of the burle art in it it actually is some of his best work he can do really nice faces and portraits that don't involve the scenery melting.

He's good just the Lemuria and splicer artwork looks very interchangeable with each other

I think some of the lemuria/splicer art work interchangability is I am pretty sure given what I have seen on his art page that at least some of the warsteeds were originally for splicers to begin with they just worked well with the lemuria setting.

Pepsi Jedi wrote:Best thing about it was the cover and some Perez art inside. The rest, I wouldn't even use to paper the bottom of my rat's cage.

That is one opinion. I personally found it very good and very accurate to Australian culture, plus some of the O.C.C.s are the best and most interesting in the game to date.

As for the Aboriginals thing, I've said it before but clearly I need to say it again... the American preconception about Aboriginal culture is bollocks. You guys have no idea and don't want to know. They are not a mystical people. Their culture never really was. The dreamtime ISNT what it is commonly preconceived of being and they have a fractured mythology that--

Just Watch This or This.

Rifts Australia embodied mankind pulling together to survive the apocalypse, even if large parts were scumbags that pulled together. That is Australian culture. That is how it is here. We've argued about the toad thing on multiple times in the past but I SERIOUSLY think you lack the perspective required to interpret the material correctly.

You need to understand what the toad represents to our country and how it has effected the environment. They're not like bullfrogs.

This sums up their cultural impact, plus its a song. Enjoy.

The book that I find the least useful is She-marrian nation. I have everything I need to know about the She-marrians in SB1r in a few pages, nothing in the book really added to the setting or jumped out at me as particularly useful.

Here is more on the toad.

Armorlord wrote:

flatline wrote:I totally have to get SA1 and SA2.

I read lots of complaints about it, but all the complaints seem to revolve around the damage levels, not the meat of the presented materials.

--flatline

It is actually quite good, and some really interesting ideas. Most of the burn was from just how wild the power jump was from other books at the time. My main beef with the writing was the vast power attributed to the Arkons and Megaversal Legion (ML being the overpowered group standing out in a book of high power) and how impossible it was for anyone to ever have their gear or do anything with them.
Which is a shame because they are really awesome and have cool stuff associated with them, but feel like a set piece of "These guys a totally awesome and have cool stuff, but they they just maintain status quo against these other crazy powerful guys and fight wars in other dimensions and unless you are a part of them there isn't much interaction you can have with them." While the Arkons are crazy powerful actual aliens from the space within Rifts Earth's own dimension.. that get beat down by ancient Inca magic and dimension-hopping foreign legion, and get used as a plot device to postpone the war between the orbital communities in a paragraph in another book. Both parties possessing unique technologies that no one else ever will have. (Other than young GMs letting people start with that gear in uncontrolled games because "It says 'of choice' so..". Which didn't help SA's reputation as THE munchkin resource.)

Looking at it today, there is still a few seriously broken things in there, and a number of questionable numbers, but when it came out it was just straight up huh??? powerful in comparison to the world at the time.

Yeah, BUT was it really such a jump up from Rifts Atlantis?

How come no one has mentioned Mutants in Orbit? Technically a source book for both After the Bomb and Rifts, it is a total mess, only half of it is specifically Rifts material, and the setting is very weakly fleshed out. It has some interesting gear (3 variants of the Glitterboy that you just won't see planet side) and that's about it. If there are these giant space stations and moon colonies, why can't they be seen? Why can't the CS, the NGR or anyone communicate with them via radio or laser communication systems? It shouldn't be that hard with the level of tech on the surface to open communications or signal the folks in orbit to at least talk back and forth, even if travel is out of the question.

As for England, even with some of the Camelot wonkiness, I always kind of liked it as a unique place in Rifts with some interesting flora and fauna, and a higher emphasis on magic over technology. I think it could use an update and expansion but it is far from horrible.

I'd say that the ones most worth owning are the ones you like and the ones least worth owning are the ones you don't.

I'm lucky, I like them all so I have the most fun.

flatline wrote:Snagged from another thread, not wanting to derail it...

jaymz wrote:Rifts Scotland (and maybe package it with Ireland too) - would go a long way to supplementing England (considered by most to be the worst Rifts book there is) and making the entire area more playable for a lot of people if done right.

Wait, most people consider England to be the worst Rifts book? It seems like there was a thread not too long ago about the worst books and as I recall, even though there was general consensus that the whole New Camelot thing was lame, the Millennium Tree material, (some of the) druid OCCs, and Temporal Magic and Practitioners made England worth having.

Am I remembering wrong?

Edit: changed title.

--flatline

For the record I didn't say it was the worst just that many do think it is. For ME the worst is Heroes of the Megaverse. To me it is the PALLADIUM books least worth having let alone for Rifts.

Rifts Africa.I would give it away for free.

It would have been much better,if they spilt it into 2 or 3 Books,One focus on the Phoenix empire and North Africa,One on the reast of Afirca adding a few more nations and the last covering the Supernatural in Afirca from Magic to monsters.

That's a very 'Hindsight' view of Africa though. The earliest world books give general overviews of huge areas. England and Africa were small books that covered not only the people, creatures and organizations of that nature, but that continue a single narrative of exploring the world of RIFTS. It wasn't until much later that what would have been a single 180pg world book was split into two 220pg+ books.

The concept of what the World Books should be changed over time, making the early books much different. Most of the early books relied heavily on the main book for OCCs, ect, whereas the later books are all nearly stand-alones.

Probably Madhaven for me. It's got some neat terrain, and the White Knights story is nice, but otherwise the mutants were lackluster and I ended up rolling my eyes far more often than I did for any other WB.

I hated Madhaven, the art ruined it for me. I couldn't get past the splatterpunk type visuals.

I think heroes of the megaverse or rifts africa. Really the best thing about africa was the necromancer OCC and mystic russia has a better more complete version of the OCC. Rifts africa fell into the weird rift between adventure book with all the horsemen of the appocalypse and world book and did not do either really well. It probably would have worked better had they had a sepearate book for the 4 horsemen stuff and had a specific world book that fleshed out africa.

Rappanui wrote:I agree, heroes of the megaverse is the lamest rifts book ever... a lame stab at superheroes... and mostly released to appease a kickstarter.

I agree Heroes of the Megaverse is the lamest book but that last part about a kickstarter is absolute nonsense. Heroes of the Megaverse was released almost two years before Palladium's first foray into the Megaversal Insider Program (Their house version of a kickstarter) and that first M.I. program went off without a hitch.

I think I may pick up Aftrica. Even if the horsemen are lame, it sounds like there is lots of setting information in it.

--flatline

flatline wrote:I think I may pick up Aftrica. Even if the horsemen are lame, it sounds like there is lots of setting information in it.

--flatline

Not really. At all. there's about 30 pages on the 4 hoursemen. Then 60 or so pages on the Egyptian gods in rifts earth flavor, their minions and stuff. Some kinda sterotypical OOC"s Witch, Medicine man, Rain maker, etc. The 'old' necromancer, which has been superseded by the newer one in Vamp Kingdoms revised.

The "Setting" info is 20, 25 pages, depending on how you count it, and that's with 4 OOCs in there Pygmy talismans and charms.

Two or three pages of monsters

Then a ten page wrap up on the gathering of heroes pulling together to fight the horsemen.

With the time line having moved 'on' and the assumption that the Horsemen were defeated. (Tarn was there and now she's moved past it and is detailing other happenings in the world and such. There's mild references to the event in other books) The book is just a faint, FAINT swipe at thousands an thousands of miles of land.

Not trying to be funny but we know far more about the UP of Michigan than we do the entirety of Africa, in/on rifts earth.

We know more about Merctown alone, than we do all of Africa.

I wouldn't call Africa the worst book. SA 1 and SA 2 "Land of the twinky crap even Kevin disavows now" Would rate lower.. but Africa is limited in usage. To be honest... you could re-title it 'Victor Lazlo is back, fightin' some Horsemen" and it'd be more or less the same book. As it doesn't really DETAIL Africa. It's more Victor Lazlo and his party of Good fighting the horsemen. "in" Africa, so here's some cliffs notes on Africa. Now roll the Horsemen in! There is a lengthy section on the Gods of the Nile. So if that's of interest to you, then the book could be fun. Rifts style Egyptian gods could be interesting. Our parties just aren't umber enough to be slugging it out with gods or get mixed up in their affairs.

Why is everyone so quick to throw away the Four Horsemen? They are a really big deal and can make for a pretty fun campaign. I don't understand this nonsense about it having already happened and stuff unless you have already experienced the fun of defeating the Four Horsemen in your campaign and if you have, unless your GM borked the entire thing for you, why would you complain?
It doesn't matter if your game is set in 101 P.A., 105 P.A., 109 P.A., 120 P.A. or even a Chaos Earth game, the Four Horsemen is something the GM can bring into the game at any point, unless you have already defeated them (even then it could be possible for a return but that would be kind of lame).

The only book I own, that I have never used, is Australia. I dont think Ive even read it all the way through. Thus, it the least worth owning IMHO.

Giant2005 wrote:Why is everyone so quick to throw away the Four Horsemen? They are a really big deal and can make for a pretty fun campaign. I don't understand this nonsense about it having already happened and stuff unless you have already experienced the fun of defeating the Four Horsemen in your campaign and if you have, unless your GM borked the entire thing for you, why would you complain?
It doesn't matter if your game is set in 101 P.A., 105 P.A., 109 P.A., 120 P.A. or even a Chaos Earth game, the Four Horsemen is something the GM can bring into the game at any point, unless you have already defeated them (even then it could be possible for a return but that would be kind of lame).

Because most of us HAVE dealt with it or have deemed it dealt with over two decades ago. (Literally. Book came out in 93). And it's not 'Nonsense' of it having happened. The metaplot (As light as it is) Has progressed past it. "The Four Horsemen" Is an event referenced now as in 'the past' which was one of the events in the prophecy (Which is largely ignored, but still mentioned every 5 to 10 books). Yeah your GM could giggle with the time line, but if you're playing a canon game, they happened at a certain point, then things happened after that point.

It's not that they're 'bad' but it's something you've done. And if a 'world book' focus' more on an event than a giant continent, that's a thing. When the 'setting' information is 15 or 20 pages out of the entire World book. That's kinda a thing.

It's not that the horsemen are bad, but if it's going to be an adventure book set in Africa it could have been, a sourcebook or something. The Mechinoids was set in eastern US seaboard but it wasn't called "World book 39 Eastern US Seaboard"

There's just very little 'Africa' in Rifts Africa. There's much more about the Egyptian gods and Horsemen. If you took the --Africa-- information out and stood it alone, you might have a 48 page splat book.

Probably vampire sourcebook, there is way too many words dedicated to monsters that can be killed by a slip and slide.

Pepsi Jedi wrote:It's not that the horsemen are bad, but if it's going to be an adventure book set in Africa it could have been, a sourcebook or something. The Mechinoids was set in eastern US seaboard but it wasn't called "World book 39 Eastern US Seaboard"

Palladium's nomenclature of books have been wonky and they really dont fit the description of their titles.

Somebody, please show me on a map where "D-Bees of North America" is. D-Bees should have been called a Source Book, straight up.

Likewise, Juicer Uprising, Mechanoid Invasion, and Xiticix Invasion should have all been Adventure Books which advance story.

But back in the day, they didnt have Sourcebooks or Adventure Books. Just World Books. So yeah, it has Metaplot, but it also details the continent of Africa, which in my opinion still counts as a World Book.

I dont think Kevin and company ever thought Rifts was going to be as big as it has become and they didnt plan out all those nomenclatures back in the early 90s. However, if they ever do a much needed Revised edition of Palladium rules, Id think they would do with the following:

-World books should be set in a specific timeline and detail the world from a single point in time (lets say 100 PA).
-Source books should be books that augment the World Book in which it references, these very well can advance the story line to explain the new toys, races, and OCCs. This would be where books like Coalition War Campaign would fit in.
-Adventure books push Metaplot style adventures and advance timelines. Don't like metaplot, dont buy Adventure books. But there shouldnt be any new toys, races, or OCCs in these books, just working with the material from the Source and World books.

Giant2005 wrote:

Rappanui wrote:I agree, heroes of the megaverse is the lamest rifts book ever... a lame stab at superheroes... and mostly released to appease a kickstarter.

I agree Heroes of the Megaverse is the lamest book but that last part about a kickstarter is absolute nonsense. Heroes of the Megaverse was released almost two years before Palladium's first foray into the Megaversal Insider Program (Their house version of a kickstarter) and that first M.I. program went off without a hitch.

What would you call the "please buy this limit 2000 copy art print to save Palladium Books for $50" if not an in house crowdsource? HotM was in large part to give recognition to the 2000 people that bought the save palladium art print after all .....

And the first one did not go off without a hitch, but I will say it went of minimal hitches....especially when compared to the NG MIs

jaymz wrote:

Giant2005 wrote:

Rappanui wrote:I agree, heroes of the megaverse is the lamest rifts book ever... a lame stab at superheroes... and mostly released to appease a kickstarter.

I agree Heroes of the Megaverse is the lamest book but that last part about a kickstarter is absolute nonsense. Heroes of the Megaverse was released almost two years before Palladium's first foray into the Megaversal Insider Program (Their house version of a kickstarter) and that first M.I. program went off without a hitch.

What would you call the "please buy this limit 2000 copy art print to save Palladium Books for $50" if not an in house crowdsource? HotM was in large part to give recognition to the 2000 people that bought the save palladium art print after all .....

That is called retail.

Giant2005 wrote:

jaymz wrote:

Giant2005 wrote:

Rappanui wrote:I agree, heroes of the megaverse is the lamest rifts book ever... a lame stab at superheroes... and mostly released to appease a kickstarter.

I agree Heroes of the Megaverse is the lamest book but that last part about a kickstarter is absolute nonsense. Heroes of the Megaverse was released almost two years before Palladium's first foray into the Megaversal Insider Program (Their house version of a kickstarter) and that first M.I. program went off without a hitch.

What would you call the "please buy this limit 2000 copy art print to save Palladium Books for $50" if not an in house crowdsource? HotM was in large part to give recognition to the 2000 people that bought the save palladium art print after all .....

That is called retail.

No that is not retail. Retail is "we already have this product would you like to buy it?" which is different than "we need to raise funds to stay in business due treachery in our ranks, please help us and I'll make a limited print to give you in return". The former is standard retail. The latter is fundraising. The latter is no different than a crowdsource with the end result being the company being able to stay open instead of a product. HotM was just a means to thank those people on top of the print they received. It was still a crap book.

jaymz wrote:

Giant2005 wrote:

jaymz wrote:

Giant2005 wrote:

Rappanui wrote:I agree, heroes of the megaverse is the lamest rifts book ever... a lame stab at superheroes... and mostly released to appease a kickstarter.

I agree Heroes of the Megaverse is the lamest book but that last part about a kickstarter is absolute nonsense. Heroes of the Megaverse was released almost two years before Palladium's first foray into the Megaversal Insider Program (Their house version of a kickstarter) and that first M.I. program went off without a hitch.

What would you call the "please buy this limit 2000 copy art print to save Palladium Books for $50" if not an in house crowdsource? HotM was in large part to give recognition to the 2000 people that bought the save palladium art print after all .....

That is called retail.

No that is not retail. Retail is "we already have this product would you like to buy it?" which is different than "we need to raise funds to stay in business due treachery in our ranks, please help us and I'll make a limited print to give you in return". The former is standard retail. The latter is fundraising. The latter is no different than a crowdsource with the end result being the company being able to stay open instead of a product. HotM was just a means to thank those people on top of the print they received. It was still a crap book.

My memory is far from the best (actually it is decidedly crappy) but that isn't how I remember it happening. No-one paid for anything in advance.

Um yes they did. They paid for the print. Kevin made it then sent it out. He didn't just have 2000 copies of the print lying around the warehouse last I checked. Not to mention it was a fundraiser to keep palladium's doors open, not a normal retail "hey we're selling this, do you want it?" scenario. Being fundraiser as it was by deifinition makes it a corm of crowdsource.

All crowdsourcing is essentially a retail transaction of some kind. It's the intent and the why behind the crowdsource that makes it a fundraiser rather than "retail".

Edit - It was no different the MIs. They asked for money for a special product (the limited print) in order to attain something (keeping the company's doors open). The MIs asked for money for a special product (PDFs, hardcovers, special editions or a call from Kevin depending on the level you bought in at) in order to attain something (production of the book). Seems to be the same thing to me. A crowdsource.

jaymz wrote:Um yes they did. They paid for the print. Kevin made it then sent it out. He didn't just have 2000 copies of the print lying around the warehouse last I checked. Not to mention it was a fundraiser to keep palladium's doors open, not a normal retail "hey we're selling this, do you want it?" scenario. Being fundraiser as it was by deifinition makes it a corm of crowdsource.

All crowdsourcing is essentially a retail transaction of some kind. It's the intent and the why behind the crowdsource that makes it a fundraiser rather than "retail".

Edit - It was no different the MIs. They asked for money for a special product (the limited print) in order to attain something (keeping the company's doors open). The MIs asked for money for a special product (PDFs, hardcovers, special editions or a call from Kevin depending on the level you bought in at) in order to attain something (production of the book). Seems to be the same thing to me. A crowdsource.

If it was indeed paid for in advance like you are saying, then you are right. I don't remember it happening like that though, although as I said, my memory is far from a trustworthy source.

Kagashi wrote:

Pepsi Jedi wrote:It's not that the horsemen are bad, but if it's going to be an adventure book set in Africa it could have been, a sourcebook or something. The Mechinoids was set in eastern US seaboard but it wasn't called "World book 39 Eastern US Seaboard"

Palladium's nomenclature of books have been wonky and they really dont fit the description of their titles.

Somebody, please show me on a map where "D-Bees of North America" is. D-Bees should have been called a Source Book, straight up.

*Shows you a map..... of North America* Not trying to be funny but... that question kinda kicked ya in the rear.

Kagashi wrote:
Likewise, Juicer Uprising, Mechanoid Invasion, and Xiticix Invasion should have all been Adventure Books which advance story.

Well the Mechanoids was a source book, not a world book. Technically Juicers covered both Juicers and then that area and it's inclusion into the CS, but I don't disagree on that one. We just happened to be talking about Africa and why it's not that good of a world book at the time.

Kagashi wrote:

But back in the day, they didnt have Sourcebooks or Adventure Books. Just World Books. So yeah, it has Metaplot, but it also details the continent of Africa, which in my opinion still counts as a World Book.

I don't have them open to look at the published dates, but I'm fairly certain that Sourcebook 1, came out before Rifts Africa.

Nor do I think 20 or 30 pages is 'detailing' anything, much less a land mass the size of Africa.

Kagashi wrote:
I dont think Kevin and company ever thought Rifts was going to be as big as it has become and they didnt plan out all those nomenclatures back in the early 90s. However, if they ever do a much needed Revised edition of Palladium rules, Id think they would do with the following:

-World books should be set in a specific timeline and detail the world from a single point in time (lets say 100 PA).
-Source books should be books that augment the World Book in which it references, these very well can advance the story line to explain the new toys, races, and OCCs. This would be where books like Coalition War Campaign would fit in.
-Adventure books push Metaplot style adventures and advance timelines. Don't like metaplot, dont buy Adventure books. But there shouldnt be any new toys, races, or OCCs in these books, just working with the material from the Source and World books.

I don't think that'd work at all. If you have all your setting information at a static time (In the past mind you.) And then put out metaplot like that you're basicly saying 'Here's the world. Now here's some optional plots to go with it." You can't really build a world like rifts like that.

If it were built like that from the start we'd be literally 20 years in, with all thesetting around 104-5 PA and some adventure books with it that people are going to ignore as optional. Heck, there's already people that just hand wave the Tolkeen war. Which is the biggest 'event' to have happened in rifts ever.

Eashamahel wrote:Yeah, England is definately one of the more imaginative books ever made, probably has a lot to do with the fact it was early in the history of the game.

I suppose if it was filled with yet more laser rifles (doing between 2D6-4D6MD at 1600-2000ft range) and armour types, and more redundant OCCs, it would be more popular.

I'm also an England fan.Alien plants and bugs, some of the latter as playable RCCs, sounds like loads of fun to me.
And I enjoy the original take on the Matter of Britain.

If I used Rifts England in play, I would alter of ignore or alter some aspects it. But that's true of most world books and does not mean I think poorly of the work.

Rappanui wrote:but shemarian nation is pages after pages of Robot barbarian babes?

Wait, is that bad thing?


Shemarrians, hell yeah!


I've been thinking of buying that book. I really love my Sourcebook One, and the two would seem to go well together.

Hmmm I own every Rifts book, even scored a copy of Manhunter when I learned about it. Guess I may be in the minority but I've never come across a Rifts book I would consider not worth owning. Maybe disappointing but never worthless.

I was disappointed with the West books, I feel they could have done so much more with the Native Americans then they did... I like England but never got into the Camelot stuff, but then Aurtherian legend never interested me much.

Of course I'm one of those people who collects all the Palladium ranges.

Rifts unlimited edition.