Robotech Alt 2: Protoculture Boogaloo

[Chronicler]

Hey does anyone have a complete list of all the mech in Robotech (sans the stuff in the rpg books, I can list those on my own)? Going to work on that along with listing every character (both in show and some new ones that might just fit with everything).

[Chronicler]

Ok so been listing the mecha in the RPG for earth forces, can't believe there are that many alone and not including other models of that mecha. One thing that I've found is that so far the gaps in mecha are VF-2, VF-3,VR-010, and VR-020, and VF-7 I heard was from the comics which I think I do have a picture of in my files.

If anyone has suggestions on mech I would be glad to listen. I do have some ideas for a VF-2 and VF-3 if there is no such model in the RT canon.

[Chronicler]

On what the world did when the ship crashed:

It was a big shock for the world that we where not alone. Even bigger when they learned about how big they where. Scientist from around the world gathered at Macross island to study what they labeled as Unknown Alien Ship (U.A.S)-01. The most prominent scientist at the time, the young Dr. Emil Lang (was 26 when the ship crashed) was sent in first along with Capt. Gloval and a complement of troops. After the initial accident with the ships A.I Lang and the science community propose several projects in order to study the U.A.S-01 and to develop ways to keep humanity safe from an extinction level event.

The first project was code named Prometheus. The goal of Project Prometheus was an all hours study and exploration of the wreck. Scientist worked around the clock to find anything important from the U.A.S-01. Other teams started to revers engineer the tech and materials. Governments pored a lot of capital into the study that a lot of it went to other projects that came up during Prometheus. The project lasted from 1999 to late 2001 when other projects were prioritized.

(on a note Dr. Lang did find stored areas of protoculture and production facility, but there was no way to get to the original Matrix as it was in a sort of vault. They where going to open it up but prioritization went to other things, and they where still able to access the protoculture through pipes to the main Reflex Furnish.)

The second project was code name Fortress. With most of the ship intact it was proposed to be reconstructed at the main ship in the proposed U.N. Spacy. It was to be both a main battleship, super carrier, and as a mobile fortress. The ships designation was changed to The Super Dimensional Fortress (S.D.F)-01. The reconstruction began piece by piece from 2000-2001, and then full blown construction began from 2001-2009.

The third project, code name Enterprise, was the formation and construction of a Spacy. This advanced space exploration greatly as different companies and corporations studied and revers engineer ship propulsion and reactor technology. This lead to more advanced ships to bring parts to space as space stations and harbors where created. This also lead to the first man flight to mars in 2005 and moon landing/colonization in 2006. Extensive colonization on mars began in that same year but due to a reactor malfunction on mars base Sara killing several technicians (most notably Kyle Revere). The new Warships where laid down in 2006 with both the Oberth class ships and Armor class ships. This lasted from 2000 to 2011 when the rain of death occurred.

Will have more info on other projects that happened in another post.

[Seto Kaiba]

Hey does anyone have a complete list of all the mech in Robotech (sans the stuff in the rpg books, I can list those on my own)?

Nope... even Harmony Gold doesn't have a complete list of all the mecha in Robotech. You won't find any fan who can honestly claim to have one either, for a variety of reasons. The few official Robotech references are painfully incomplete and even more painfully inaccurate, and Macross was the only one of the original three shows with reference material that could be said to be comprehensive, though what we have for MOSPEADA is at least reasonably complete (if lacking in detail).

The proverbial waters are also substantially muddied by the incomplete nature of the reference material for Southern Cross, inconsistencies introduced by the adaptation process, Harmony Gold's having thrown out large swathes of material, and their having produced more via licensees that is not considered accurate for the official Robotech universe and many years of fan-produced misinformation and theories which have tried to turn every in-joke, animation error, and inconsistency in the originals into a "secret" design.

To give a few brief examples:

Disowned designs would be things that were once part of Robotech titles that are not officially part of Robotech anymore for various reasons. Stuff like the material from Megazone 23 Part I, which was used in Robotech: the Untold Story... which Harmony Gold disowned after completion and have since lost the rights to. That'd also cover material from the novels and the old comics that Harmony Gold disowned during their reboot of Robotech's continuity... particularly the ones that infringe upon copyrights owned by other companies (like the VF-4 that was used in "The Misfits", the VF-19F knockoff in "Wings of Gibraltar", or the many, MANY instances of tracing).

In-joke designs would be things like the Orguss Valkyrie and Haros that appear briefly in scenes from the original Macross series, which for various reasons probably don't officially exist.

In-series inconsistencies would be things like the mistaken designation of the Condor armo-soldier of MOSPEADA or the Shrewfield/Sylphid fighter of Southern Cross as transforming mecha, which is utterly unsubstantiated by reliable sources.

Lastly, debated existences would be things like the alleged variant subclasses of Tristar or the numerous other bits of off-model animation that are consistently off-model but lack substantiating evidence or official acknowledgement... and as such every fan has their own take on them while Harmony Gold says and does nothing.

One thing that I've found is that so far the gaps in mecha are VF-2, VF-3,VR-010, and VR-020, and VF-7 I heard was from the comics which I think I do have a picture of in my files.

Most of that is artifacts of the adaptation of OSM specs.

The absence of a VF-2 or VF-3 is an artifact of imperfectly copying from the Macross OSM... they were skipped because Macross jumped right from the VF-1 to the VF-X-4 in terms of what showed up in the series proper. Numbers 2 and 3 were assigned to prototypes that weren't mass produced... the VF-X-2 was the VF-1's design rival that the UN Gov't passed on, and the VF-X-3 was the VF-X-4's rival, but the data for the design and the prototype were lost when the Zentradi destroyed Earth's surface. Robotech copied the numbering system, but didn't copy the explanation for why 2 and 3 are apparently unused. (There are actually very few unused numbers in Macross.)

Nothing is said for any model of Armored Bike/Ride Armor in MOSPEADA. The VR-038 Bartley was the lowest-numbered (and apparently oldest) model to ever appear.

If I'm right, the VF-7 you're thinking of is a fan-made transformable version of the non-transforming fighter from Southern Cross known variously as the Sylphid or Shrewfield... though I guess you could also be referring to the unused design from the canceled Robotech Academy pilot. Neither of those should be designated VF-7 though, since canon has it that the Beta fighter was designated VF-X-7 for most of its development (until technology problems got it put on hold and eventually redesignated VF/B-9).

[Chronicler]

If I'm right, the VF-7 you're thinking of is a fan-made transformable version of the non-transforming fighter from Southern Cross known variously as the Sylphid or Shrewfield... though I guess you could also be referring to the unused design from the canceled Robotech Academy pilot. Neither of those should be designated VF-7 though, since canon has it that the Beta fighter was designated VF-X-7 for most of its development (until technology problems got it put on hold and eventually redesignated VF/B-9).

Yes I was referring to that design, which from the source I got the photo from said it was used in the Antarctic Press run of Robotech. Again never read the comics except prelude which I picked up at the comic shop after you guys told me about it (oddly it was in the manga section which I rarely look at anymore).

So with that I'm probably going to have to bullsh@# a lot of it, or at least look at what others I've done. And even then this is a non canon fan creation so that gives me a lot of options on what to do too.

[Seto Kaiba]

So with that I'm probably going to have to bullsh@# a lot of it, or at least look at what others I've done. And even then this is a non canon fan creation so that gives me a lot of options on what to do too.

I'd just throw it a new designation... since 7 is the Beta prototype, maybe use the unused 5.

[Chronicler]

or just have it as a rejected model that the southern cross didn't need. Which brings me to another subject, why the hell where all the mech designs diffrent in a short span of time.

I'd figured that Leonard favored cheaper war-machines thus few transformable mechs and a lot of standard fair mechs, though some veritechs got approved by other commanders.

The Marines in the U.E.E.F favored more utilitarian mechs and more ground attack fighters/bombers. I always thought the alpha was suited more as a mass produced IFV that happened to fly, any soldier can use, but need extra training for flying. I can also see the VF-1 lasting a little longer like the fighter it was based off of.

Now my own faction the United Colonial Governments kept more of its former self advancing the Destroids more and kept designing true air superiority style veritechs. The U.E.E.F space navy would buy these to supplement the marines (though the VF/A-6Z is still a cheaper option, not the best mind you).

And of course there are "off brand" stuff each army would develop (Leonard: "Now that I think about it, maybe we do need more veritechs.").

[Seto Kaiba]

or just have it as a rejected model that the southern cross didn't need. Which brings me to another subject, why the hell where all the mech designs diffrent in a short span of time.

That's a good question... one we don't have an official answer for.

The closest we get to a rationalization is that the vaguely Macross-y Alpha fighter was the successor to the VF-X-4, and then things took a turn for the blocky. IIRC, the RPG's line is just that Leonard had the ASC develop its own new tech to set itself apart from the UEEF he felt abandoned by.

My personal suspicion has always been that Earth simply lost a lot of its technological refinement when things went to hell in the first war... and that simplified, blocky, and utilitarian were "good enough" to get by with an enormously reduced development cycle when getting mechanized troops to grips with the enemy ASAP was a more pressing concern than making each craft an ideal all-regime fighter.

(Sort of the Imperial Guard strategy... build all your equipment to be interchangeable and disposable, so the only resource you need to be concerned about losing is manpower.)

[Chronicler]

or just have it as a rejected model that the southern cross didn't need. Which brings me to another subject, why the hell where all the mech designs diffrent in a short span of time.

That's a good question... one we don't have an official answer for.

The closest we get to a rationalization is that the vaguely Macross-y Alpha fighter was the successor to the VF-X-4, and then things took a turn for the blocky. IIRC, the RPG's line is just that Leonard had the ASC develop its own new tech to set itself apart from the UEEF he felt abandoned by.

My personal suspicion has always been that Earth simply lost a lot of its technological refinement when things went to hell in the first war... and that simplified, blocky, and utilitarian were "good enough" to get by with an enormously reduced development cycle when getting mechanized troops to grips with the enemy ASAP was a more pressing concern than making each craft an ideal all-regime fighter.

(Sort of the Imperial Guard strategy... build all your equipment to be interchangeable and disposable, so the only resource you need to be concerned about losing is manpower.)

Funny how I was going to go with the rpg on Leonard's tech too. I would figure that other scientist's under Dr. Lang's teachings went their own way, thus the difference in design. I'm even giving the body armor a different designation than CBR and other changes like new manufacturing firms. Other older companies found it more profitable to head out into the colonies due to new resources, thus continuing the macross like stuff (or new stuff that pops into my head).

Also never though of the imperial guard when making that dissension, I just thought it was commonsense to do that given that you need something tougher and longer lasting machines. I mean the U.E.E.F was planet hopping, or they got the idea from the Zent's.

[taalismn]

And brute force high-efficiency propulsion technologies like compact Protoculture- or SLMH-powered fusion thrusters meant shaving a few decimel points of drag really wasn't considered important enough to spent hours reconfiguring the schematics and production templates for optimal streamlining. The mindset of 'we got go-power up the wazoo, let's concentrate on armor and firepower' may have taken hold.

[Chronicler]

And brute force high-efficiency propulsion technologies like compact Protoculture- or SLMH-powered fusion thrusters meant shaving a few decimel points of drag really wasn't considered important enough to spent hours reconfiguring the schematics and production templates for optimal streamlining. The mindset of 'we got go-power up the wazoo, let's concentrate on armor and firepower' may have taken hold.

Again I'm going for the alpha being more of a mass produced fighting vehicle for ground troops. And considering advanced propulsion engines and more advanced materials you can probably slap on more armor and weapon systems in something like the alpha or beta.

I'm wondering if I should make a wiki for this

[yell0w_lantern]

Very interesting stuff. Keep it up.

Jumping back a bit: have you considered that Edwards likely has Post Traumatic Stress Disorder? Nightmares, flashbacks, irritability, hypervigilance, aggression are all common symptoms. It would certainly provide a window for sympathizing with the character and would also provide a stark contrast to the comparatively unscathed members of the UEEF command.

[Chronicler]

Very interesting stuff. Keep it up.

Jumping back a bit: have you considered that Edwards likely has Post Traumatic Stress Disorder? Nightmares, flashbacks, irritability, hypervigilance, aggression are all common symptoms. It would certainly provide a window for sympathizing with the character and would also provide a stark contrast to the comparatively unscathed members of the UEEF command.

Huh, never thought about that since sadly I don't know much about ptsd other than people reliving those events and having panic-attacks from those recurring memories. It would make sense for other members from that generation giving the fact that 99% of humanity died in a few seconds. Really wish I took that psychology class back in community college.

Anyways here are some of my ideas for the other world projects that came with the arrival of the SDF-1.

Project Excalibur: With the stark realization that humanity would be going up against 50ft humanoids world militarizes had to come up with something to combat them. The proposition of fighting giants with giants came from Dr. Lang and a few of his friends in the science community. It was easy to convince the brass to develop new energy weapons technology, power systems, and materials for armor, but it took great convincing to make humanoid combat vehicles. It actually forced Lang and the others to show popular mecha anime to them as a "demonstration of concept". The brass reluctantly went ahead with it (only to stop Lang and the others from another Gundam marathon).

Successful testing of bipedal locomotion and hydrogen based reactor plants seen on the ship lead way for the design team to come up with a modular system around this. The Modular Battle Robot (MBR) was approved and many designs were created from different companies. Others created different mecha to compete with the MBR, but only two where approved, the Spartan and Monster. Mass production and use of the final designs started in 2005.

Project Valkyrie: The most famous of the projects was actually started as a drunken bet between Dr. Lang and Admiral Haze. Haze one night took Lang out for a drink and to discuss other ways to combat the giants. After a few beers and crumbled up napkins Lang brought up the transformable properties of the technology to Haze and said "Bet I can make a Transformer." Even though Lang was joking Admiral Haze thought it mite work and bet a grant from the military if he can pull it off.

After about a week Lang had written up a proposal for a fast multipurpose fighting unit to supplement the MBR using a new technology he calls Veritech. Both Haze and the brass approved of this. It was decided that a fighter jet that can become a ground capable unit would fit the bill and a call to different companies to propose a chassis design for it.

and I'll stop because I need to think about how all of it will turn out.

[taalismn]

(facepalms) Lang's...an otaku...

[glitterboy2098]

my response to that.. well duh!

[Chronicler]

(facepalms) Lang's...an otaku...

Dr. Lang: "I prefer geek. Besides it was my friends in college that came up with the idea."

[taalismn]

(facepalms) Lang's...an otaku...

Dr. Lang: "I prefer geek. Besides it was my friends in college that came up with the idea."

Strange how the term 'geek' has come to mean somebody smart and quite respectable, if not totally socially adept.
Used to mean the type of guy you'd see in circus sideshows, biting the heads off chickens.
Whereas 'nerd', which had the support of (if not fatherhood by) no less than Doctor Seuss, seems to have faded in glory.

[Chronicler]

Ugh you guys got me thinking on protoculture

so I'm just typing away at some ideas:

Protoculture is an interesting subject within RT, as it is a source of confusion. Is it a power source? Is it a way of life? What the hell is it?

Well sort of. One of the things I’m going to run off on in Alt is that Protoculture is life energy, and that Protoculture is a miss interpretation when Zor was deciphering the obelisk (will get to that in a minute). Even the Regess miss interpret as her deity. The fact of the matter is is that Protoculture is referring to the beings that created and seeded planets with Protos, or the Protos Culture.

Now the Protos Culture is a complete mystery in that the only thing left of them is pretty much most life that exists in our galaxy. They were more or less planet seeders. What was the basis of life was derived from the energy source of the same name. This energy creates cells from simple matter, and naturally goes off every which way in evolutionary standards.

Anyways the most propionate life form that had a close relationship to Protos is the flower of life. It is ever evolving, is finicky as hell, and is only naturally growing in a couple of places in our galaxy total (around 1000 planets spread out there). And the closes to the flower of life was the Invid.
So in all Protoculture is both life and a power source that even the Protos used.

[taalismn]

Whatever extra properties it has beyond being a power source or component in advanced Tirolian medicine/industrial cloning, I imagine are downplayed by the UEG and UEEF.
"Protoculture is Mind-Expanding' doesn't look good in official press-releases. Nor does 'Protoculture is Mutagenic'.
That's part of the rift between Terrans, Robotech Masters, and Invid. To the Terrans, it's fuel, to the RTs, it's both staff of life and justification for their three-based society, for the Invid it's just about everything, and seeing the former two groups profaning the Flower by trapping it as Protoculture can't be doing be doing the Regis's blood pressure any good, at least before she started using it as a leash for the human communities under her thumb.

[Chronicler]

Whatever extra properties it has beyond being a power source or component in advanced Tirolian medicine/industrial cloning, I imagine are downplayed by the UEG and UEEF.
"Protoculture is Mind-Expanding' doesn't look good in official press-releases. Nor does 'Protoculture is Mutagenic'.
That's part of the rift between Terrans, Robotech Masters, and Invid. To the Terrans, it's fuel, to the RTs, it's both staff of life and justification for their three-based society, for the Invid it's just about everything, and seeing the former two groups profaning the Flower by trapping it as Protoculture can't be doing be doing the Regis's blood pressure any good, at least before she started using it as a leash for the human communities under her thumb.

Well the Terrans found it's genetic properties to be extra useful in this time line.

Another property that people don't quite comprehend (The Regess knows only a little about it) is that it exist in a multidimensional scale. That's why it can punch holes in space and time easily and produce reflex like properties by itself.

But those are some crackpot things I have so far.

[taalismn]

Well, certainly its use in instant-elsewhere fold drives makes it all the more valuable, but folks may figure it's all because 'you throw enough energy into it, it can crack the FTL barrier', rather than a property of the Flower itself.

[Chronicler]

Well, certainly its use in instant-elsewhere fold drives makes it all the more valuable, but folks may figure it's all because 'you throw enough energy into it, it can crack the FTL barrier', rather than a property of the Flower itself.

Which pretty much is. Regular FTL can be achieved, but it would be more or less like the ones in Halo or Aliens where it is a long voyage that requires cryo-sleep. Powered by "Protoculture" you would get to you destination in under an hour (or instantaneous if close by, like Pluto).

[taalismn]

[
Which pretty much is. Regular FTL can be achieved, but it would be more or less like the ones in Halo or Aliens where it is a long voyage that requires cryo-sleep. Powered by "Protoculture" you would get to you destination in under an hour (or instantaneous if close by, like Pluto).

An event noted in Lang's engineering log as "Oops..."

[Chronicler]

[
Which pretty much is. Regular FTL can be achieved, but it would be more or less like the ones in Halo or Aliens where it is a long voyage that requires cryo-sleep. Powered by "Protoculture" you would get to you destination in under an hour (or instantaneous if close by, like Pluto).

An event noted in Lang's engineering log as "Oops..."

Lang: "How the @#%& would I know it would do that! The &%$@ is older than I am!"

Little does anyone know the fold system landed next to the Regess missing her. Sadly a Trooper was next to her.

Regess: "....bob?"