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Braden Campbell wrote:I can pretty much assure everyone that the Vampires themselves, including their rules, attributes, abilities, and general game mechanics, will not be changed significantly.

Is that to mean there may be some other more subtle changes made? Like say a bump here and there to thier combat bonuses or sumsuch?

Braden Campbell wrote:I can pretty much assure everyone that the Vampires themselves, including their rules, attributes, abilities, and general game mechanics, will not be changed significantly.

I still want them to have autododge. other than that, I'm ok with them as is.

A few tweeks here and there is all they realistically need... possibly +2 attacks to bring them up to RUE speed, very likely autododge, very likely NPC Vamps will also be able to use the PC Vamp experience chart so that they too can gain additional bonuses/resistances.

As I said to Kevin the other day, "we're taling John Carpenter's Vampires, not the Twilight ones."

That sounds good to me. Actually, that sounds excellent to me.

Braden Campbell wrote:A few tweeks here and there is all they realistically need... possibly +2 attacks to bring them up to RUE speed, very likely autododge, very likely NPC Vamps will also be able to use the PC Vamp experience chart so that they too can gain additional bonuses/resistances.

As I said to Kevin the other day, "we're taling John Carpenter's Vampires, not the Twilight ones."

Is the Kryntoc getting expanded upon? And the gods updated?
That's what I really wanted in revised edition.

The Galactus Kid wrote:That sounds good to me. Actually, that sounds excellent to me.

Then I disagree.....


Seriously, aside from bringing them up to speed on new rule changes. Don't change them at all.

I have to say that this gets a solid and resounding meh from me.

Two new attacks, supernatural strength and automatic dodge require like three lines of errata. Any world information updates that have occurred in the area probably don't need more than a few to a dozen new pages of material.

And this is pretty consistant with past revisions of books that Palladium has done. Source Book One should have been left more or less alone and we should have had a new book on the Republicans. Maybe rolled into the Shemerian book.

There's nothing that has been suggested in this thread or anywhere else that would cause me to actually want to spend any money on this. I'm not excited about it or remotely interested.

And really, what would you expect? I've already bought the original. Either you have to change so much about the original as to invalidate it which will **** me off because I've already 'wasted' money (which is why people don't like retcons, BTW) or not enough is changed to vindicate spending money on product that is not cost effective.

If you're going to do it, don't package it as a revision. All I want to see is new material and that is all I'm willing to spend money on. Package it as a new book with updated material. As soon as you start cutting and pasting anything, you're wasting my time and money (and therefore yours as I refuse to waste either).

Triax 2, I could get excited and worked up over. I would spend money on that. If the Palladium company wants my money, they need to focus on producing product I will spend it on.

Cybermancer wrote:I have to say that this gets a solid and resounding meh from me.

Two new attacks, supernatural strength and automatic dodge require like three lines of errata. Any world information updates that have occurred in the area probably don't need more than a few to a dozen new pages of material.

And this is pretty consistant with past revisions of books that Palladium has done. Source Book One should have been left more or less alone and we should have had a new book on the Republicans. Maybe rolled into the Shemerian book.

There's nothing that has been suggested in this thread or anywhere else that would cause me to actually want to spend any money on this. I'm not excited about it or remotely interested.

And really, what would you expect? I've already bought the original. Either you have to change so much about the original as to invalidate it which will **** me off because I've already 'wasted' money (which is why people don't like retcons, BTW) or not enough is changed to vindicate spending money on product that is not cost effective.

If you're going to do it, don't package it as a revision. All I want to see is new material and that is all I'm willing to spend money on. Package it as a new book with updated material. As soon as you start cutting and pasting anything, you're wasting my time and money (and therefore yours as I refuse to waste either).

Triax 2, I could get excited and worked up over. I would spend money on that. If the Palladium company wants my money, they need to focus on producing product I will spend it on.

I will reiterate the suggestion I made on another thread, a book which takes all of the pre RUE world books and possibly Sourcebooks and brings them up to current RIfts, in Rules and if needed, in timeline. a sort of Rifts Aftermath for rules changes and major events which have changed that part of the world.

I suspect most books wouldn't require more than 6-8 pages, maybe a few would require 12. This could be a 160 pg book, or if needed 192 pg book. I suspect a LOT of people would by that. I know I would.

Cybermancer wrote: If the Palladium company wants my money, they need to focus on producing product I will spend it on.

It's not just your money they want though.

sHaka wrote:

Cybermancer wrote: If the Palladium company wants my money, they need to focus on producing product I will spend it on.

It's not just your money they want though.

It's your soul!

Danger wrote:

sHaka wrote:

Cybermancer wrote: If the Palladium company wants my money, they need to focus on producing product I will spend it on.

It's not just your money they want though.

It's your soul!

No less than a greater pact.

Greyaxe wrote:

Danger wrote:

sHaka wrote:

Cybermancer wrote: If the Palladium company wants my money, they need to focus on producing product I will spend it on.

It's not just your money they want though.

It's your soul!

No less than a greater pact.

No matter the currency they wish to deal in, they first must provide something I desire. I wouldn't even consider a lesser pact for this product. This wouldn't even get me out to the Church of Seimbieda on either of the soltices or equinoxes.

The autododge by itself isn't bad, if juicer level of bonuses and PP is given to them, well then the book would only be looked at and determined if the rest of the setting material is worth getting the book for as that in my opinon isn't

will not be changed significantly.

That is turning Rifts vampires into immortal juicers and clearly demonstrating the power creep in the game is getting out of control.

Gamer wrote:The autododge by itself isn't bad, if juicer level of bonuses and PP is given to them, well then the book would only be looked at and determined if the rest of the setting material is worth getting the book for as that in my opinon isn't

will not be changed significantly.

That is turning Rifts vampires into immortal juicers and clearly demonstrating the power creep in the game is getting out of control.

Is getting? Surely you mean has gotten.

Misfit KotLD wrote:

Gamer wrote:The autododge by itself isn't bad, if juicer level of bonuses and PP is given to them, well then the book would only be looked at and determined if the rest of the setting material is worth getting the book for as that in my opinon isn't

will not be changed significantly.

That is turning Rifts vampires into immortal juicers and clearly demonstrating the power creep in the game is getting out of control.

Is getting? Surely you mean has gotten.

Eh I dont find the power creep to be as bad as most...i look at it is the ability to throw even bigger and badder things at my players as my players play bigger and badde thigns themselves

Gamer wrote:That is turning Rifts vampires into immortal juicers and clearly demonstrating the power creep in the game is getting out of control.

Creep has happened, will happen. So sit back, enjoy the ride and don't worry too much about it. Powercreep is the natural order of things.

dark brandon wrote:

Gamer wrote:That is turning Rifts vampires into immortal juicers and clearly demonstrating the power creep in the game is getting out of control.

Creep has happened, will happen. So sit back, enjoy the ride and don't worry too much about it. Powercreep is the natural order of things.

so is powere pull back. everyone though FQ would be a power creep extraordianire but in reality most of hte new GBs are weaker than the original....

dark brandon wrote:

Gamer wrote:That is turning Rifts vampires into immortal juicers and clearly demonstrating the power creep in the game is getting out of control.

Creep has happened, will happen. So sit back, enjoy the ride and don't worry too much about it. Powercreep is the natural order of things.

So is not buying books you don't like.

Gamer wrote:So is not buying books you don't like.

Do you believe there's a book they could write that would make everyone happy?

Logically though, if powercreep didn't sell, you wouldn't see books that have it. It seems to me that Power creep sells. Not to everyone, but there's not going to be any book you write that will make everyone happy, so you make the majority of the one's happy. And since previous power creep books sell, it makes logical sense to make it a Power creep, at least to me. Simply put, if it didn't sell we wouldn't see it.

jaymz wrote:so is powere pull back. everyone though FQ would be a power creep extraordianire but in reality most of hte new GBs are weaker than the original....

Diversity is always good.

dark brandon wrote:

jaymz wrote:so is powere pull back. everyone though FQ would be a power creep extraordianire but in reality most of hte new GBs are weaker than the original....

Diversity is always good.

True but they didnt need new GB bodies to do it Just optional weapon packages.

Rogue_Scientist wrote:I'd be very interested in hearing solid reasons for introducing auto-dodge. From either a thematic or game designer point of view.

In my personal opinion, Master and Secondary Vamps (perhaps not wild Vampires) should get such an upgrade for several easons. Firstly, it reflects the vampire's traditional above-superhuman agility and speed. Secondly, while there are many ways for mortal characters to get it (drugs, magic, hand-to-hand forms, suits of powered armour), there are almost no monsters in the entire game that can dodge without burning up an attack - thus, giving it to vampires only makes them a more unique threat to face off against in combat.

From a Game Master perspective, vampires cease to be the pant-wetting type of danger that they ought to be when a single Player Character can have twice the number of melee actions as they. If a vampire hunter with 7 actions (quite possible by even 3rd level) goes toe to toe against a vampire with only 4 attacks, the hunter has to only force the vamp to burn up four dodges... then hit him with impunity. And if the same vampire is jumped by a small party of PC's, then he often gets to do nothing at all because he is swarmed by attacks, and gets dropped within 15 seconds, not even having time to escape. Wasn't that a fun and nail biting encounter? Hoever, if the vampire gets to dodge for free, the odds go further in the monster's direction, the danger level goes up, and the Player's satisfaction at actually staking a vamp through the heart likewise increases.

Let me ask you this: why shouldn't they get auto-dodge?

Let me ask you this: why shouldn't they get auto-dodge?

I'd have to see all the other added abilities they are given on top of the already existing ones before I could determine the justification for/against Auto-dodge.

Braden Campbell wrote:

Rogue_Scientist wrote:I'd be very interested in hearing solid reasons for introducing auto-dodge. From either a thematic or game designer point of view.

In my personal opinion, Master and Secondary Vamps (perhaps not wild Vampires) should get such an upgrade for several easons. Firstly, it reflects the vampire's traditional above-superhuman agility and speed. Secondly, while there are many ways for mortal characters to get it (drugs, magic, hand-to-hand forms, suits of powered armour), there are almost no monsters in the entire game that can dodge without burning up an attack - thus, giving it to vampires only makes them a more unique threat to face off against in combat.

From a Game Master perspective, vampires cease to be the pant-wetting type of danger that they ought to be when a single Player Character can have twice the number of melee actions as they. If a vampire hunter with 7 actions (quite possible by even 3rd level) goes toe to toe against a vampire with only 4 attacks, the hunter has to only force the vamp to burn up four dodges... then hit him with impunity. And if the same vampire is jumped by a small party of PC's, then he often gets to do nothing at all because he is swarmed by attacks, and gets dropped within 15 seconds, not even having time to escape. Wasn't that a fun and nail biting encounter? Hoever, if the vampire gets to dodge for free, the odds go further in the monster's direction, the danger level goes up, and the Player's satisfaction at actually staking a vamp through the heart likewise increases.

Let me ask you this: why shouldn't they get auto-dodge?

First, I'll preface that I'm not against vampires getting auto-dodge. Since it became an ability that an unmodified human could train for (Hand to Hand: Commando), I can grudgingly accept a vampire having it.

However, vampires are already super humanly fast.

An unmodified secondary vampire has five attacks right out of the box. No combat training, just raw natural ability. Untrained human from RUE has three attacks, sorry no, actions out of the box. They only get two attacks for living. Which means a vampire is two and a half times faster than a base line human. With seven attacks, the gulf between the regular human and the super human vampire just grows.

A regular Coalition grunt who is trained for combat only gets four attacks. So bringing regular vampires up to RUE standards and giving them seven total attacks (without any combat training!) still sets them apart as super humanly fast.

The fact that vampires compare to Juicers, power armor and robot pilots, borgs, crazies and the such with thier number of attacks per melee only proves that they possess super human speed already. Don't forget that one of the major themes of Rifts is the creation of augmented humans with superhuman abilities. Therefore vampires do not need auto-dodge to be superhuman. They achieve that with having their attacks raised to the RUE level parity. And I know that the Juicers I mentioned above get auto-dodge but they're the only one of the superhumans that I rattled off the top of my head that do. Yes, others do as well, but many more don't and remain superhuman.

Again, I'm not inherently against auto-dodge for vampires, but what you're hoping to achieve already exists for them. They already have demonstratable superhuman speed.

Finally, when attempting to add an ability to something in a game such as Rifts, "Why not?" is not a justification. As the person wanting to make the change, it is up to you to justify that change. It is not up to those supporting the status quo to provide reasons not to change until you've done that. In other words, if you wish to champion the cause for auto-dodge you really should do better than,

Why shouldn't they get auto-dodge?

The obvious answer is, "Because they don't have it already and there is no justification for them to have it."

Until you actually provide that justification.

Cybermancer wrote:

Braden Campbell wrote:

Rogue_Scientist wrote:I'd be very interested in hearing solid reasons for introducing auto-dodge. From either a thematic or game designer point of view.

In my personal opinion, Master and Secondary Vamps (perhaps not wild Vampires) should get such an upgrade for several easons. Firstly, it reflects the vampire's traditional above-superhuman agility and speed. Secondly, while there are many ways for mortal characters to get it (drugs, magic, hand-to-hand forms, suits of powered armour), there are almost no monsters in the entire game that can dodge without burning up an attack - thus, giving it to vampires only makes them a more unique threat to face off against in combat.

From a Game Master perspective, vampires cease to be the pant-wetting type of danger that they ought to be when a single Player Character can have twice the number of melee actions as they. If a vampire hunter with 7 actions (quite possible by even 3rd level) goes toe to toe against a vampire with only 4 attacks, the hunter has to only force the vamp to burn up four dodges... then hit him with impunity. And if the same vampire is jumped by a small party of PC's, then he often gets to do nothing at all because he is swarmed by attacks, and gets dropped within 15 seconds, not even having time to escape. Wasn't that a fun and nail biting encounter? Hoever, if the vampire gets to dodge for free, the odds go further in the monster's direction, the danger level goes up, and the Player's satisfaction at actually staking a vamp through the heart likewise increases.

Let me ask you this: why shouldn't they get auto-dodge?

First, I'll preface that I'm not against vampires getting auto-dodge. Since it became an ability that an unmodified human could train for (Hand to Hand: Commando), I can grudgingly accept a vampire having it.

However, vampires are already super humanly fast.

An unmodified secondary vampire has five attacks right out of the box. No combat training, just raw natural ability. Untrained human from RUE has three attacks, sorry no, actions out of the box. They only get two attacks for living. Which means a vampire is two and a half times faster than a base line human. With seven attacks, the gulf between the regular human and the super human vampire just grows.

A regular Coalition grunt who is trained for combat only gets four attacks. So bringing regular vampires up to RUE standards and giving them seven total attacks (without any combat training!) still sets them apart as super humanly fast.

The fact that vampires compare to Juicers, power armor and robot pilots, borgs, crazies and the such with thier number of attacks per melee only proves that they possess super human speed already. Don't forget that one of the major themes of Rifts is the creation of augmented humans with superhuman abilities. Therefore vampires do not need auto-dodge to be superhuman. They achieve that with having their attacks raised to the RUE level parity. And I know that the Juicers I mentioned above get auto-dodge but they're the only one of the superhumans that I rattled off the top of my head that do. Yes, others do as well, but many more don't and remain superhuman.

Again, I'm not inherently against auto-dodge for vampires, but what you're hoping to achieve already exists for them. They already have demonstratable superhuman speed.

Finally, when attempting to add an ability to something in a game such as Rifts, "Why not?" is not a justification. As the person wanting to make the change, it is up to you to justify that change. It is not up to those supporting the status quo to provide reasons not to change until you've done that. In other words, if you wish to champion the cause for auto-dodge you really should do better than,

Why shouldn't they get auto-dodge?

The obvious answer is, "Because they don't have it already and there is no justification for them to have it."

Until you actually provide that justification.

Remember folks, Braden is suggesting only Secondary and Master vampires get autododge. The “Boss” vampires, who are fewer in number and should present a greater challenge. I think it’s well balanced.

Yeah.

Another way to handle it might be to have vampires retain their normal dodge bonuses, but then have an automatic dodge available as well that wouldn't eat up a melee attack, but would have a lower bonus.

For example, a Secondary Vampire might have +5 to dodge (normally), but could auto dodge with a bonus of only +2, or something.

Greyaxe wrote:Remember folks, Braden is suggesting only Secondary and Master vampires get autododge. The “Boss” vampires, who are fewer in number and should present a greater challenge. I think it’s well balanced.

I've never used secondary vampires as a boss fight. There are over 15 thousand of them in the Vampire Kingdoms. That doesn't count the untold numbers of wild vampires sent north to act as a buffer. Both secondary and wild vampires hunt in packs, much like wolves. This is how they are described in the existing book and fits with many modern conceptions of them such as the movie "The Lost Boys". In fact a common vampire trope is the heroes fighting through several or many lesser vampires to get to the master.

Only master vampires really cut it as a 'boss' fight.

Further more, 'balance' does not exist in Rifts. It is not a concern nor a justification in a game where a human rogue scholar is as valid a choice as a super-powered rogue scholar. Or a demi-god rogue scholar. It's just not an issue.

Braden Cambell wrote:Yeah.

Another way to handle it might be to have vampires retain their normal dodge bonuses, but then have an automatic dodge available as well that wouldn't eat up a melee attack, but would have a lower bonus.

For example, a Secondary Vampire might have +5 to dodge (normally), but could auto dodge with a bonus of only +2, or something.

This doesn't really address any concerns that have been raised by anyone on the subject. And as was mentioned above if you don't list a bonus for auto-dodge than the default rules grant them PP bonus only.

To get Vampires up to RUE speed, if you really think it's needed, I feel there are two simple changes.

1) Make their HP, SP, and other stats like the Tarlock in Skrapers. They get more powerfull as they age.
A level based progression for the vamps like the Tarlock would make perfect sense,and would allow GM's to tailor the vamps to there groups on a case by case basis.

2) Allow Vampires to keep more of what they knew in there former life and to even to gain new levels in it if need be.
This simple little change could make vampire much more like characters in the game world rather than the plug n play monsters they are now.

Darkorinth wrote:

Shadow Wyrm wrote:To get Vampires up to RUE speed, if you really think it's needed, I feel there are two simple changes.

1) Make their HP, SP, and other stats like the Tarlock in Skrapers. They get more powerfull as they age.
A level based progression for the vamps like the Tarlock would make perfect sense,and would allow GM's to tailor the vamps to there groups on a case by case basis.

2) Allow Vampires to keep more of what they knew in there former life and to even to gain new levels in it if need be.
This simple little change could make vampire much more like characters in the game world rather than the plug n play monsters they are now.

I've already been on these boards saying that I don't want vampires to get a big rewrite because I like them. Still thinking about it the times I have used them I pretty much did exactly what you just suggested, so I will second the motion.

At least no one suggested allowing characters and npcs to have an O.C.C. and an R.C.C.........

Darkorinth wrote:

Braden Campbell wrote:Yeah.

Another way to handle it might be to have vampires retain their normal dodge bonuses, but then have an automatic dodge available as well that wouldn't eat up a melee attack, but would have a lower bonus.

For example, a Secondary Vampire might have +5 to dodge (normally), but could auto dodge with a bonus of only +2, or something.

Just don't list a bonus to auto-dodge, then by standard rules they only get PP to it.

That would be extremely reasonable.

Shadow Wyrm wrote:Make vampire much more like characters in the game world rather than the plug n play monsters they are now.

I think you're totally missing the boat here on this statement. In Rifts Vampires are monsters. They aren't the cuddly weepy Anne Rice/Twilight Vampires. They are inhuman monsters who serve an alien intelligence.

In fact, Buffy the Vampire Slayer is a better comparison to what Rifts Vampires are. They don't want to know you, just eat you.

Danger wrote:

Shadow Wyrm wrote:Make vampire much more like characters in the game world rather than the plug n play monsters they are now.

I think you're totally missing the boat here on this statement. In Rifts Vampires are monsters. They aren't the cuddly weepy Anne Rice/Twilight Vampires. They are inhuman monsters who serve an alien intelligence.

In fact, Buffy the Vampire Slayer is a better comparison to what Rifts Vampires are. They don't want to know you, just eat you.

Sounds like "Ye Olde" zombies to me....

Danger wrote:

Shadow Wyrm wrote:Make vampire much more like characters in the game world rather than the plug n play monsters they are now.

I think you're totally missing the boat here on this statement. In Rifts Vampires are monsters. They aren't the cuddly weepy Anne Rice/Twilight Vampires. They are inhuman monsters who serve an alien intelligence.

In fact, Buffy the Vampire Slayer is a better comparison to what Rifts Vampires are. They don't want to know you, just eat you.

I totally agree that they are monsters,and I wouldn't want to see a newer friedlier vamp. I just feal that allowing vamp's to have more of a character aspect to them would make them better mosters for better role-playing, becuase they are great roll-playing now as I see them.

Shadow Wyrm wrote:

Danger wrote:

Shadow Wyrm wrote:Make vampire much more like characters in the game world rather than the plug n play monsters they are now.

I think you're totally missing the boat here on this statement. In Rifts Vampires are monsters. They aren't the cuddly weepy Anne Rice/Twilight Vampires. They are inhuman monsters who serve an alien intelligence.

In fact, Buffy the Vampire Slayer is a better comparison to what Rifts Vampires are. They don't want to know you, just eat you.

I totally agree that they are monsters,and I wouldn't want to see a newer friedlier vamp. I just feal that allowing vamp's to have more of a character aspect to them would make them better mosters for better role-playing, becuase they are great roll-playing now as I see them.

The only reason a vamp should have character is if it WERE a character, or if it's truly interesting NPC villian. I DO NOT want a cuddly, sparkly vampire I also DO NOT want Vampires that get MORE powerful as they age, (kevin himself and others have mentioned that these aren't "standard" vampires) they're powerful enough as it is. They also DO NOT need an auto dodge, their dodge is already good enough (if they get an auto dodge then EVERY OCC/RCC should get auto dodge).
I'm in favor of vampires having one or two more weaknesses, like fire (for one) and maybe even allow them to take half HP damage (at least) from MD heat based weaponry, tho' I feel that they don't need a new sourcebook at all, that instead the creative talents involved should be put to use on Australia 2 and Lemuria and the New Navy. Or how about actual COMPANY PRODUCED maps of Rifts Earth detailing where things actually are, not that I mind fan work, but Kevin knows in his own mind (as game creator) where everything really is.

As per the latest Murmur, E M Gist will be drawing the covers both to WB1 and the vampire sourcebook

As much as I like Long's original, I can't wait to see what Gist's sick mind cooks up - his work on Dead Reign has been awesome

sHaka wrote:As per the latest Murmur, E M Gist will be drawing the covers both to WB1 and the vampire sourcebook

As much as I like Long's original, I can't wait to see what Gist's sick mind cooks up - his work on Dead Reign has been awesome

Yes. This is going to be awesome. I can't wait. Both of these books (well...ALL Palladium books) are at the top of my list.

While I am also looking forward to both books my enthusaism for the revised WB1 has lessened a little. I really wish they had done away with the water pistols and rifles. I always found them silly. Sadly it seems that they will be left in. I do hope the artwork on them gets an upgrade. Rather than just copy and pasting the same sections of the old sourcebook twice. As for the Rifts® Vampire Sourcebook I hope with get some sort of continuation of events from WB1. The last thing I want is for it too be just left open. Maybe one vampire intelligence is slain or subverted or something similar.

Sureshot wrote:While I am also looking forward to both books my enthusaism for the revised WB1 has lessened a little. I really wish they had done away with the water pistols and rifles. I always found them silly. Sadly it seems that they will be left in. I do hope the artwork on them gets an upgrade. Rather than just copy and pasting the same sections of the old sourcebook twice. As for the Rifts® Vampire Sourcebook I hope with get some sort of continuation of events from WB1. The last thing I want is for it too be just left open. Maybe one vampire intelligence is slain or subverted or something similar.

They should not have made a new sourcebook. at least, not yet....

ShepherdGunn wrote:So... is there going to be an Atlantis Revised as well? An updated Undead Slayer would be nice.

I don't know if this is going to be a conituned trend, but if it is, I would like to see some of the olderbooks done justice. I LOVE Atlantis, and Splynn Dimensional Market did a good job at giving us some additional material. I think an updated Atlantis would give us more of the same with some tweaks here and there. I strongly hope England and the Brittish Isles gets revised and Africa needs some help too. I would stop there with the revised editions, and focus on more new books.

The Galactus Kid wrote:

ShepherdGunn wrote:So... is there going to be an Atlantis Revised as well? An updated Undead Slayer would be nice.

I don't know if this is going to be a conituned trend, but if it is, I would like to see some of the olderbooks done justice. I LOVE Atlantis, and Splynn Dimensional Market did a good job at giving us some additional material. I think an updated Atlantis would give us more of the same with some tweaks here and there. I strongly hope England and the Brittish Isles gets revised and Africa needs some help too. I would stop there with the revised editions, and focus on more new books.

I would prefer a brand new book for these locations with Erratta at the end regarding any upgrades necessary for previous material instead of a revision to the previous book. Atlantis II, England II, etc. could give us a look at what's happening now without making the previous book completely obsolete.

Danger wrote:

The Galactus Kid wrote:

ShepherdGunn wrote:So... is there going to be an Atlantis Revised as well? An updated Undead Slayer would be nice.

I don't know if this is going to be a conituned trend, but if it is, I would like to see some of the olderbooks done justice. I LOVE Atlantis, and Splynn Dimensional Market did a good job at giving us some additional material. I think an updated Atlantis would give us more of the same with some tweaks here and there. I strongly hope England and the Brittish Isles gets revised and Africa needs some help too. I would stop there with the revised editions, and focus on more new books.

I would prefer a brand new book for these locations with Erratta at the end regarding any upgrades necessary for previous material instead of a revision to the previous book. Atlantis II, England II, etc. could give us a look at what's happening now without making the previous book completely obsolete.

Agreed

Elthbert wrote:

Danger wrote:

The Galactus Kid wrote:

ShepherdGunn wrote:So... is there going to be an Atlantis Revised as well? An updated Undead Slayer would be nice.

I don't know if this is going to be a conituned trend, but if it is, I would like to see some of the olderbooks done justice. I LOVE Atlantis, and Splynn Dimensional Market did a good job at giving us some additional material. I think an updated Atlantis would give us more of the same with some tweaks here and there. I strongly hope England and the Brittish Isles gets revised and Africa needs some help too. I would stop there with the revised editions, and focus on more new books.

I would prefer a brand new book for these locations with Erratta at the end regarding any upgrades necessary for previous material instead of a revision to the previous book. Atlantis II, England II, etc. could give us a look at what's happening now without making the previous book completely obsolete.

Agreed

I would find this preferable as well.

Cybermancer wrote:

Elthbert wrote:

Danger wrote:

The Galactus Kid wrote:

ShepherdGunn wrote:So... is there going to be an Atlantis Revised as well? An updated Undead Slayer would be nice.

I don't know if this is going to be a conituned trend, but if it is, I would like to see some of the olderbooks done justice. I LOVE Atlantis, and Splynn Dimensional Market did a good job at giving us some additional material. I think an updated Atlantis would give us more of the same with some tweaks here and there. I strongly hope England and the Brittish Isles gets revised and Africa needs some help too. I would stop there with the revised editions, and focus on more new books.

I would prefer a brand new book for these locations with Erratta at the end regarding any upgrades necessary for previous material instead of a revision to the previous book. Atlantis II, England II, etc. could give us a look at what's happening now without making the previous book completely obsolete.

Agreed

I would find this preferable as well.

how about an update of splicers as well? new biotech, mebbe?

The Unknown Mage wrote:how about an update of splicers as well? new biotech, mebbe?

Pick up Rifter #50. New OFFICIAL Splicers material.

What no-humans that can be turn into a Vampire?

I like seeing more Vampire Hunter Groups.

When I heard that VK was going to get a revision I was estatic and I'm hoping that they come with rules or guidelines that allow you to customize your vampires to your liking and tastes here are some of the things I'm hoping they'll allow us to do:

1.Allow vampires to become more powerful with age and have access to new powers such as superspeed ("The Dead Travel Fast" you know) and the like

2.Get rid of the running water vulnerability .....I can understand running water from like rivers and such as that was actual folklore...but give them a Pathological Fear of it...and water squirt guns? Please don't give me started...unless said water guns have holy water in them.

3. Allow vampires of any stripe to continue gaining levels in their O.C.C....Imagine Facing a 300 year old master vampire that has not only the increased powers of a vampire that old but has the skill and spells of a 15th level ley line walker....or a 15th level man-at-arms etc... I wouldn't want to face such things haphazardly..would you?

4.Give optional rules to have vampires that have not been created by or bound to a vampire intelligence as the concept of the vampire intelligence is a little too Lovecraftian for my taste and I love Lovecraft's stories but I want vampires to be the vampire of legend.

5. I would love to see how Dracula would be like if given the palladium treatment
and I think he would be abberant alignment for sure.

And that's all I got to say about this. Thanks

Gangrel44 wrote:1.Allow vampires to become more powerful with age and have access to new powers such as superspeed ("The Dead Travel Fast" you know) and the like.

Too Vampire the Masquerade for my liking.

Gangrel44 wrote:2.Get rid of the running water vulnerability .....I can understand running water from like rivers and such as that was actual folklore...but give them a Pathological Fear of it...and water squirt guns? Please don't give me started...unless said water guns have holy water in them.

I think I'm one of a few that don't mind that vulnerability. It ties them directly into their earth element nature.

Gangrel44 wrote:3. Allow vampires of any stripe to continue gaining levels in their O.C.C....Imagine Facing a 300 year old master vampire that has not only the increased powers of a vampire that old but has the skill and spells of a 15th level ley line walker....or a 15th level man-at-arms etc... I wouldn't want to face such things haphazardly..would you?

This I could almost get on board with, but it amplifies the Vampire Horde threat to such epic levels that it starts to get a little on the silly side. It's a little too much. Or as the Bud Light commercials say: Too Heavy.

Gangrel44 wrote:4.Give optional rules to have vampires that have not been created by or bound to a vampire intelligence as the concept of the vampire intelligence is a little too Lovecraftian for my taste and I love Lovecraft's stories but I want vampires to be the vampire of legend.

But they aren't. Much of Palladium's 'lore' is based on Lovecraftian themes. The Vampire Intelligence is just an extension of that. I don't have any desire to see a 'Free Agent' origin option for vampires. It opens up the door for Vampires as player characters, which they ain't.

Gangrel44 wrote:5. I would love to see how Dracula would be like if given the palladium treatment
and I think he would be abberant alignment for sure.

Interesting. Why do you believe that?

I'd just as soon prefer them to not include Dracula. It's rather cliche, and then you'll always have those players that brag about 'killing Dracula' or somesuch.

Gangrel44 wrote:
5. I would love to see how Dracula would be like if given the palladium treatment
and I think he would be abberant alignment for sure.
Danger Wrote:
Interesting. Why do you believe that?


Well think about it he was brought up as a Christian Knight and the Code of Conduct for a knight would be to show respect for his enemies,be honorable in his dealings,tell the truth always and so on and so forth even though he was a sadistic SOB who impaled people and dipped his bread into the blood of his enemies if not drank the blood outright he still acted within certain guidelines..skewed and flawed as they may be. Dracula's ethics would not have changed even after he got turned because let's face it any palladium player here would probably agree that Dracula was abberant alignment long before he got his fangs.

That's my two cents.

Danger wrote:

Gangrel44 wrote:1.Allow vampires to become more powerful with age and have access to new powers such as superspeed ("The Dead Travel Fast" you know) and the like.

Too Vampire the Masquerade for my liking.

Gangrel44 wrote:2.Get rid of the running water vulnerability .....I can understand running water from like rivers and such as that was actual folklore...but give them a Pathological Fear of it...and water squirt guns? Please don't give me started...unless said water guns have holy water in them.

I think I'm one of a few that don't mind that vulnerability. It ties them directly into their earth element nature.

I agree that it is a bitto VtM. And I don't mind the water vulnerability either. Infact I gave an explination earlier this thread about how exactly I tied it in with there link to the element of Earth.

I do phowever play it as only a weakness on planets with intense magic, this increases there powers, but also increase their link to Earth.

Darkorinth wrote:Besides the vampires of legend don't come even close to resembling the vampires everyone is asking for. I've actually read books on old vampire legends, they only vaguely similar to the post-stroker cliche.

anyone else hear of the other mythological ways to kiil vamps? ive heard you have to nail one or two (im not sure which) feet to the floor.....