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Icefalcon wrote:

Damian Magecraft wrote:a 25% gain is above the norm for new comers to the hobby regardless of system.
a 25% gain is better than most systems see from experienced players switching systems.
not the best metric to use to shore up your points.

Not really. In my experience, the norm is close to 40-50% of people that try a system will buy the books for that system. For people switching systems, that number is closer to 70%. In almost every group I have ever been a part of, except my current one, all of the group will at least buy a core book. After that, I see at least half buy the books pertinent to their characters. Beyond that, maybe 10% will buy most if not all of the books because they are completionists. But even among completionists, I see very few of them buy more than three or four Palladium books. They just do not like the system enough to buy more than just the core book and maybe one or two that they will use for their characters.

Damian Magecraft wrote:

say652 wrote:still better than a flat out NO that is all to common on the forums. the examples i gave were questions that i needed to answer to use my super. and it forced me to focus on my abilities more. i think more people would play rifts if we argued less, listened to other peoples ideas, not always back up your friend, stop attacking people that are new to the forums and most of all stop saying "In my game" in a sentence directed at people who wouldn't play with you. acceptance breeds unity, unity breeds strength.

and here we see a prime example of the Player knows better than the gm.
that does not just chase players from your system of choice but the hobby as a whole.
It is the GM who has to juggle everything in order to insure everyone (not just you) has fun.
If he says no Powers then that means no powers it is his adventure and setting (yes the company created it but he has modified it) you have agreed to share. If you are not allowed one choice surely in the plethora of choices available there is another you may have fun with? If you cannot say yes then obviously instead of crying that GM X wont let you play Y you move on to a GM that will.

Damian Magecraft wrote:

say652 wrote:still better than a flat out NO that is all to common on the forums. the examples i gave were questions that i needed to answer to use my super. and it forced me to focus on my abilities more. i think more people would play rifts if we argued less, listened to other peoples ideas, not always back up your friend, stop attacking people that are new to the forums and most of all stop saying "In my game" in a sentence directed at people who wouldn't play with you. acceptance breeds unity, unity breeds strength.

and here we see a prime example of the Player knows better than the gm.
that does not just chase players from your system of choice but the hobby as a whole.
It is the GM who has to juggle everything in order to insure everyone (not just you) has fun.
If he says no Powers then that means no powers it is his adventure and setting (yes the company created it but he has modified it) you have agreed to share. If you are not allowed one choice surely in the plethora of choices available there is another you may have fun with? If you cannot say yes then obviously instead of crying that GM X wont let you play Y you move on to a GM that will.

say652 wrote:

Damian Magecraft wrote:

say652 wrote:still better than a flat out NO that is all to common on the forums. the examples i gave were questions that i needed to answer to use my super. and it forced me to focus on my abilities more. i think more people would play rifts if we argued less, listened to other peoples ideas, not always back up your friend, stop attacking people that are new to the forums and most of all stop saying "In my game" in a sentence directed at people who wouldn't play with you. acceptance breeds unity, unity breeds strength.

and here we see a prime example of the Player knows better than the gm.
that does not just chase players from your system of choice but the hobby as a whole.
It is the GM who has to juggle everything in order to insure everyone (not just you) has fun.
If he says no Powers then that means no powers it is his adventure and setting (yes the company created it but he has modified it) you have agreed to share. If you are not allowed one choice surely in the plethora of choices available there is another you may have fun with? If you cannot say yes then obviously instead of crying that GM X wont let you play Y you move on to a GM that will.

and as a gm i have never limited anybody elses creativity by allowing them to use any book legal class in a game. varying power levels in a party make for good roleplaying. especially in a game that sells itself on the FALSE premise of allowing you to be anything. the system is sound, the source books great, the players want to have fun, the gm's.....pfffffft. control freaks who destroy the whole basis of the game. at least in heroes unlimited you can actually play whatever you want to. rifts was eh.......and just broke down to trying to justify why to the gm.

Damian Magecraft wrote:

Icefalcon wrote:

Damian Magecraft wrote:a 25% gain is above the norm for new comers to the hobby regardless of system.
a 25% gain is better than most systems see from experienced players switching systems.
not the best metric to use to shore up your points.

Not really. In my experience, the norm is close to 40-50% of people that try a system will buy the books for that system. For people switching systems, that number is closer to 70%. In almost every group I have ever been a part of, except my current one, all of the group will at least buy a core book. After that, I see at least half buy the books pertinent to their characters. Beyond that, maybe 10% will buy most if not all of the books because they are completionists. But even among completionists, I see very few of them buy more than three or four Palladium books. They just do not like the system enough to buy more than just the core book and maybe one or two that they will use for their characters.

We have had differing experiences then...
From where I stand with 35 years of observation the Hobby retains roughly 5% of those who try it.
and around 85% will never move beyond that game system that drew them in even after being introduced to new systems. (system loyalty is hard to over come).
Of those that look to move to or pick up another system only about 1 in 10 pick up any given system.
and perhaps a mere 5% pick up more than 1 additional system.

say652 wrote: and as a gm i have never limited anybody elses creativity by allowing them to use any book legal class in a game. varying power levels in a party make for good roleplaying. especially in a game that sells itself on the FALSE premise of allowing you to be anything. the system is sound, the source books great, the players want to have fun, the gm's.....pfffffft. control freaks who destroy the whole basis of the game. at least in heroes unlimited you can actually play whatever you want to. rifts was eh.......and just broke down to trying to justify why to the gm.

The Beast wrote:

Damian Magecraft wrote:

say652 wrote:still better than a flat out NO that is all to common on the forums. the examples i gave were questions that i needed to answer to use my super. and it forced me to focus on my abilities more. i think more people would play rifts if we argued less, listened to other peoples ideas, not always back up your friend, stop attacking people that are new to the forums and most of all stop saying "In my game" in a sentence directed at people who wouldn't play with you. acceptance breeds unity, unity breeds strength.

and here we see a prime example of the Player knows better than the gm.
that does not just chase players from your system of choice but the hobby as a whole.
It is the GM who has to juggle everything in order to insure everyone (not just you) has fun.
If he says no Powers then that means no powers it is his adventure and setting (yes the company created it but he has modified it) you have agreed to share. If you are not allowed one choice surely in the plethora of choices available there is another you may have fun with? If you cannot say yes then obviously instead of crying that GM X wont let you play Y you move on to a GM that will.

That's the thing though. There's so few Palladium players that finding a GM that'll let you play those characters is rare. Then you're stuck either looking for a group for a long time, or you're stuck playing a PC that you didn't really want to play.

And that last bit comes with its own headaches for GMs, because now they'd have to work harder to keep that player interested in that PC, or risk them becoming disruptive or leaving.

The Beast wrote:That's the thing though. There's so few Palladium players that finding a GM that'll let you play those characters is rare. Then you're stuck either looking for a group for a long time, or you're stuck playing a PC that you didn't really want to play.

And that last bit comes with its own headaches for GMs, because now they'd have to work harder to keep that player interested in that PC, or risk them becoming disruptive or leaving.

Icefalcon wrote:

Damian Magecraft wrote:

Icefalcon wrote:

Damian Magecraft wrote:a 25% gain is above the norm for new comers to the hobby regardless of system.
a 25% gain is better than most systems see from experienced players switching systems.
not the best metric to use to shore up your points.

Not really. In my experience, the norm is close to 40-50% of people that try a system will buy the books for that system. For people switching systems, that number is closer to 70%. In almost every group I have ever been a part of, except my current one, all of the group will at least buy a core book. After that, I see at least half buy the books pertinent to their characters. Beyond that, maybe 10% will buy most if not all of the books because they are completionists. But even among completionists, I see very few of them buy more than three or four Palladium books. They just do not like the system enough to buy more than just the core book and maybe one or two that they will use for their characters.

We have had differing experiences then...
From where I stand with 35 years of observation the Hobby retains roughly 5% of those who try it.
and around 85% will never move beyond that game system that drew them in even after being introduced to new systems. (system loyalty is hard to over come).
Of those that look to move to or pick up another system only about 1 in 10 pick up any given system.
and perhaps a mere 5% pick up more than 1 additional system.

Oh, I won't disagree about differing experiences. But keep in mind also, I have never attended cons either. Almost everyone I have ever gamed with was more than the casual observer type. I have only ever experienced two of those over the last 25 years. Almost everyone else was open to multiple systems and genres. Of course, you are right in that there are a few that refuse to play anything other than their favorite system but most of the people I have gamed with have been open to trying new things. Not all of the systems I or other friends have introduced have taken off but not everyone is going to like the same things.

say652 wrote:again without compromise we stand firmly on a line in the sand yelling at each other instead of playing a game. it breaks down to the gm vs the players. the gm wants his game run his way with characters of his choosing. IN A GAME THAT SAYS YOU CAN PLAY ANYTHING!!! that is why i walked away from rifts after a long time trying to make the game fun for me without being able to play a character i wanted to play. i started with rifts got fed up and purchased a game that fit my play style more. so while rifts lost a lifelong gamer Heroes Unlimited gained one.

Icefalcon wrote:

Damian Magecraft wrote:

say652 wrote:still better than a flat out NO that is all to common on the forums. the examples i gave were questions that i needed to answer to use my super. and it forced me to focus on my abilities more. i think more people would play rifts if we argued less, listened to other peoples ideas, not always back up your friend, stop attacking people that are new to the forums and most of all stop saying "In my game" in a sentence directed at people who wouldn't play with you. acceptance breeds unity, unity breeds strength.

and here we see a prime example of the Player knows better than the gm.
that does not just chase players from your system of choice but the hobby as a whole.
It is the GM who has to juggle everything in order to insure everyone (not just you) has fun.
If he says no Powers then that means no powers it is his adventure and setting (yes the company created it but he has modified it) you have agreed to share. If you are not allowed one choice surely in the plethora of choices available there is another you may have fun with? If you cannot say yes then obviously instead of crying that GM X wont let you play Y you move on to a GM that will.

I will agree with Damien here. It is up to the GM to make sure everyone at the table has fun, including himself. If he thinks that super powers would be too much of a headache, then that is what he decides. It is either decide to play something else or go find a GM that is willing to let you play what you want.

Icefalcon wrote:

say652 wrote:again without compromise we stand firmly on a line in the sand yelling at each other instead of playing a game. it breaks down to the gm vs the players. the gm wants his game run his way with characters of his choosing. IN A GAME THAT SAYS YOU CAN PLAY ANYTHING!!! that is why i walked away from rifts after a long time trying to make the game fun for me without being able to play a character i wanted to play. i started with rifts got fed up and purchased a game that fit my play style more. so while rifts lost a lifelong gamer Heroes Unlimited gained one.

But if agreed to play the game before hand, you already agreed to follow the GM's rules.

say652 wrote:again without compromise we stand firmly on a line in the sand yelling at each other instead of playing a game. it breaks down to the gm vs the players. the gm wants his game run his way with characters of his choosing. IN A GAME THAT SAYS YOU CAN PLAY ANYTHING!!! that is why i walked away from rifts after a long time trying to make the game fun for me without being able to play a character i wanted to play. i started with rifts got fed up and purchased a game that fit my play style more. so while rifts lost a lifelong gamer Heroes Unlimited gained one.

Ninjabunny wrote:

Nightmask wrote:

Icefalcon wrote:

say652 wrote:again without compromise we stand firmly on a line in the sand yelling at each other instead of playing a game. it breaks down to the gm vs the players. the gm wants his game run his way with characters of his choosing. IN A GAME THAT SAYS YOU CAN PLAY ANYTHING!!! that is why i walked away from rifts after a long time trying to make the game fun for me without being able to play a character i wanted to play. i started with rifts got fed up and purchased a game that fit my play style more. so while rifts lost a lifelong gamer Heroes Unlimited gained one.

But if agreed to play the game before hand, you already agreed to follow the GM's rules.

No, you agreed to play the game with the assumption going in that one would be playing by Palladium's rules, not necessarily the rules the GM has decided to add or modified from what the books have written.

So GM's may not restrict class?

Damian Magecraft wrote:One thing I have noticed that does cause gamers to look at other systems is settings.
Specifically Licensed ones.
I would never have picked up a FATE system game if not for the Dresden Files.
I would Never have given Unisystem a second glance if not for the Buffyverse games.
But Licensing is a double bladed sword The License has to have a fan base large enough to draw in enough players to justify the cost of the License. (and in RPG land I honestly dont believe there are that many).

Nightmask wrote:

Icefalcon wrote:

say652 wrote:again without compromise we stand firmly on a line in the sand yelling at each other instead of playing a game. it breaks down to the gm vs the players. the gm wants his game run his way with characters of his choosing. IN A GAME THAT SAYS YOU CAN PLAY ANYTHING!!! that is why i walked away from rifts after a long time trying to make the game fun for me without being able to play a character i wanted to play. i started with rifts got fed up and purchased a game that fit my play style more. so while rifts lost a lifelong gamer Heroes Unlimited gained one.

But if agreed to play the game before hand, you already agreed to follow the GM's rules.

No, you agreed to play the game with the assumption going in that one would be playing by Palladium's rules, not necessarily the rules the GM has decided to add or modified from what the books have written.

say652 wrote:no i don't think a gm should restrict classes. its not my job to police someone elses idea of an awesome hero concept. its my job to create a fun and hopefully memorable gaming experience for my group of players. not live out my fantasy of controlling someone elses reality.

Damian Magecraft wrote:

Ninjabunny wrote:

Nightmask wrote:

Icefalcon wrote:

say652 wrote:again without compromise we stand firmly on a line in the sand yelling at each other instead of playing a game. it breaks down to the gm vs the players. the gm wants his game run his way with characters of his choosing. IN A GAME THAT SAYS YOU CAN PLAY ANYTHING!!! that is why i walked away from rifts after a long time trying to make the game fun for me without being able to play a character i wanted to play. i started with rifts got fed up and purchased a game that fit my play style more. so while rifts lost a lifelong gamer Heroes Unlimited gained one.

But if agreed to play the game before hand, you already agreed to follow the GM's rules.

No, you agreed to play the game with the assumption going in that one would be playing by Palladium's rules, not necessarily the rules the GM has decided to add or modified from what the books have written.

So GM's may not restrict class?

According to some players a GM is not allowed to do anything that might have a negative impact on the Players Character.
And apparently any GM that attempts to do so is automatically a bad GM.

Here is tip for those players...
If you encounter multiple GMs consecutively that you have termed "bad GMs"...
It might not be the GM that is the problem.

Damian Magecraft wrote:The impression I get here is however we have one person being inflexible. not 10. not 100. not 1000. but 1.
Everyone else is able to work with in the limits the GMs set. Why is this one not?

Ninjabunny wrote:

Nightmask wrote:

Icefalcon wrote:

say652 wrote:again without compromise we stand firmly on a line in the sand yelling at each other instead of playing a game. it breaks down to the gm vs the players. the gm wants his game run his way with characters of his choosing. IN A GAME THAT SAYS YOU CAN PLAY ANYTHING!!! that is why i walked away from rifts after a long time trying to make the game fun for me without being able to play a character i wanted to play. i started with rifts got fed up and purchased a game that fit my play style more. so while rifts lost a lifelong gamer Heroes Unlimited gained one.

But if agreed to play the game before hand, you already agreed to follow the GM's rules.

No, you agreed to play the game with the assumption going in that one would be playing by Palladium's rules, not necessarily the rules the GM has decided to add or modified from what the books have written.

So GM's may not restrict class?

The Beast wrote:

Damian Magecraft wrote:The impression I get here is however we have one person being inflexible. not 10. not 100. not 1000. but 1.
Everyone else is able to work with in the limits the GMs set. Why is this one not?

Well what if it's the GM being inflexible? Perhaps the player was only wanting powers that would be the equivalent of wearing you average suit of MDC armor, or they weren't wanting any powers that would make the PC a MDC being, and the GM wasn't willing to negotiate with the player so he could make a PC that he'd want to play, but wouldn't upset the power level the GM was wanting to run.

Icefalcon wrote:

Nightmask wrote:

Icefalcon wrote:

say652 wrote:again without compromise we stand firmly on a line in the sand yelling at each other instead of playing a game. it breaks down to the gm vs the players. the gm wants his game run his way with characters of his choosing. IN A GAME THAT SAYS YOU CAN PLAY ANYTHING!!! that is why i walked away from rifts after a long time trying to make the game fun for me without being able to play a character i wanted to play. i started with rifts got fed up and purchased a game that fit my play style more. so while rifts lost a lifelong gamer Heroes Unlimited gained one.

But if agreed to play the game before hand, you already agreed to follow the GM's rules.

No, you agreed to play the game with the assumption going in that one would be playing by Palladium's rules, not necessarily the rules the GM has decided to add or modified from what the books have written.

So if I tell people that I am running a game set in North America and I am limiting the classes to that continent with a few exceptions but on a first come first serve basis, it is my fault that they cannot play "whatever they want"?

Ninjabunny wrote:

say652 wrote:my super vagabond. Simon level 7 scrupulous hero. major powers sonicflight,sonic speed, intangibility, energy resistance, energy expulsion electricity, extraordinary physical strength. how is this overpowered or broken in a rifts game? its not in my opinion broken or unfair by any means.

This depends on the power level of the other players. If my group wanted to be a bunch of city rats and play in a urban envoriment like the burbs then yes this guy is a no go for that. If everyone is in PA and dragons then his a go.

Icefalcon wrote:Yeah, I don't get it either Ninjabunny. If they cannot find something different to play among literally thousands of other combos of class/race without complaining about that one thing they want to play, they blame the GM.

Icefalcon wrote:

Ninjabunny wrote:

say652 wrote:my super vagabond. Simon level 7 scrupulous hero. major powers sonicflight,sonic speed, intangibility, energy resistance, energy expulsion electricity, extraordinary physical strength. how is this overpowered or broken in a rifts game? its not in my opinion broken or unfair by any means.

This depends on the power level of the other players. If my group wanted to be a bunch of city rats and play in a urban envoriment like the burbs then yes this guy is a no go for that. If everyone is in PA and dragons then his a go.

Not to mention that if you ask to play the same character in every game, then you probably are going to hear a no also.

Johnnycat93 wrote:

say652 wrote:my super vagabond. Simon level 7 scrupulous hero. major powers sonicflight,sonic speed, intangibility, energy resistance, energy expulsion electricity, extraordinary physical strength. how is this overpowered or broken in a rifts game? its not in my opinion broken or unfair by any means.

Oh my gawd!!!
How could you die!?
Your enemies could only hit you on a nat 20, and intangibility and the like is just extra gravy.

Ninjabunny wrote:

say652 wrote:my super vagabond. Simon level 7 scrupulous hero. major powers sonicflight,sonic speed, intangibility, energy resistance, energy expulsion electricity, extraordinary physical strength. how is this overpowered or broken in a rifts game? its not in my opinion broken or unfair by any means.

This depends on the power level of the other players. If my group wanted to be a bunch of city rats and play in a urban envoriment like the burbs then yes this guy is a no go for that. If everyone is in PA and dragons then his a go.

Nightmask wrote:

Icefalcon wrote:

Nightmask wrote:

Icefalcon wrote:

say652 wrote:again without compromise we stand firmly on a line in the sand yelling at each other instead of playing a game. it breaks down to the gm vs the players. the gm wants his game run his way with characters of his choosing. IN A GAME THAT SAYS YOU CAN PLAY ANYTHING!!! that is why i walked away from rifts after a long time trying to make the game fun for me without being able to play a character i wanted to play. i started with rifts got fed up and purchased a game that fit my play style more. so while rifts lost a lifelong gamer Heroes Unlimited gained one.

But if agreed to play the game before hand, you already agreed to follow the GM's rules.

No, you agreed to play the game with the assumption going in that one would be playing by Palladium's rules, not necessarily the rules the GM has decided to add or modified from what the books have written.

So if I tell people that I am running a game set in North America and I am limiting the classes to that continent with a few exceptions but on a first come first serve basis, it is my fault that they cannot play "whatever they want"?

Given it's Rifts yes, particularly if you have exceptions which means some get to play whatever they want while others do not. Some people actually like playing that victim of Rift activity ending up on Rifts earth from another world particularly a parallel Earth. Either for the uniqueness of the character or just because they like the 'oh my poor lost world!' angst RP.

The Beast wrote:

Johnnycat93 wrote:

say652 wrote:my super vagabond. Simon level 7 scrupulous hero. major powers sonicflight,sonic speed, intangibility, energy resistance, energy expulsion electricity, extraordinary physical strength. how is this overpowered or broken in a rifts game? its not in my opinion broken or unfair by any means.

Oh my gawd!!!
How could you die!?
Your enemies could only hit you on a nat 20, and intangibility and the like is just extra gravy.

Volley of missiles and a bad dodge roll to turn intangible. My first HU PC had almost the same powers listed here. When converted to Rifts he only had 95 MDC. First time out one of the SAMAS units we were fighting launched both missiles at me. I had a decent dodge bonus, but it wasn't enough that time. I took 90 MD, and spent most of the time we were there after that trying to earn enough credits to buy some armor.

Nightmask wrote:

Icefalcon wrote:Yeah, I don't get it either Ninjabunny. If they cannot find something different to play among literally thousands of other combos of class/race without complaining about that one thing they want to play, they blame the GM.

That's really not an accurate assessment of things, the GM aren't allowing all those combinations and especially if they are it comes off weak in the extreme to insist that one particular idea is forbidden while going 'but hey there's all this over here you don't want but might be close enough'. Why should someone have to settle for 'close enough' when others get exactly what they want? Especially if they're a good player and there's no reason to expect problems from them playing it.

Damian Magecraft wrote:

Nightmask wrote:

Icefalcon wrote:Yeah, I don't get it either Ninjabunny. If they cannot find something different to play among literally thousands of other combos of class/race without complaining about that one thing they want to play, they blame the GM.

That's really not an accurate assessment of things, the GM aren't allowing all those combinations and especially if they are it comes off weak in the extreme to insist that one particular idea is forbidden while going 'but hey there's all this over here you don't want but might be close enough'. Why should someone have to settle for 'close enough' when others get exactly what they want? Especially if they're a good player and there's no reason to expect problems from them playing it.

But I have no proof they are a "good" player... just their word and an "awesome" (yet tired old retread I have seen abused a thousand times) character concept.
Nope not lifting my blanket ban until you prove you are a responsible player and not some closet munchkin looking for a game group to mentally/emotionally dominate. And arguing with me over that decision is not helping your insistence that you are a "good" player and not a self centered munchkin who cares about nothing but the mental masturbation that is his kewl character concept.

Ninjabunny wrote:

say652 wrote:

Ninjabunny wrote:

say652 wrote:my super vagabond. Simon level 7 scrupulous hero. major powers sonicflight,sonic speed, intangibility, energy resistance, energy expulsion electricity, extraordinary physical strength. how is this overpowered or broken in a rifts game? its not in my opinion broken or unfair by any means.

This depends on the power level of the other players. If my group wanted to be a bunch of city rats and play in a urban envoriment like the burbs then yes this guy is a no go for that. If everyone is in PA and dragons then his a go.

the party consisted of a level 12 power amor pilot, a level 12 psi stalker loaded with rune weapons, a mind melter also level 12 who somehow learned samurai swordsmanship also at level 12, and my hero that started out at first level. the energy resistance works like this any energy based attack deals damage-30 then half, so a 60 md blast only deals 15 md. the intangibility while awesome is limited to self plus 40lbs and requires an action to activate. true i did have like 140mdc and did supernatural damage with punches the lack of any useful skills more than made up for the fact he was a super vagabond using the conversion book. i wore crusader armor, carried a vibrosword an energy pistol and an energy rifle. at level seven i sold my pulse rifle and bought another pistol. he was fast and strong but not game unbalancing in any way. 100% rifts legal using the conversion book. most of the time i scouted ahead intangible so my main skill was Prowl. took me a year of wanting to play the character before i was allowed to join the game.

My group clear to go as I told you, do you know why the GM didn't let you play the PC? Did they own heros?

say652 wrote:well in the first adventure everybody else was carving wild vampires like pumpkins while i wrestled around and somehow got into a one on one with a secondary vampire which i did manage to stake after i got knocked through enough buildings to create a large pile of kindling. but without a lore demons and monster skill, i left the staked leader to help out the rest of the party in the fight. which of course the staked vamp got rescued by a wild vamp and kept returning until i learned you have to decapitate a staked vamp to really kill it. i was allowed any rifts core book class at level 7 which i didn't want or a conversion book super at level 1. i was told super powers are game unbalancing?

Icefalcon wrote:

Damian Magecraft wrote:

Nightmask wrote:

Icefalcon wrote:Yeah, I don't get it either Ninjabunny. If they cannot find something different to play among literally thousands of other combos of class/race without complaining about that one thing they want to play, they blame the GM.

That's really not an accurate assessment of things, the GM aren't allowing all those combinations and especially if they are it comes off weak in the extreme to insist that one particular idea is forbidden while going 'but hey there's all this over here you don't want but might be close enough'. Why should someone have to settle for 'close enough' when others get exactly what they want? Especially if they're a good player and there's no reason to expect problems from them playing it.

But I have no proof they are a "good" player... just their word and an "awesome" (yet tired old retread I have seen abused a thousand times) character concept.
Nope not lifting my blanket ban until you prove you are a responsible player and not some closet munchkin looking for a game group to mentally/emotionally dominate. And arguing with me over that decision is not helping your insistence that you are a "good" player and not a self centered munchkin who cares about nothing but the mental masturbation that is his kewl character concept.

A bit harsh but an accurate description of how I am also.

Nightmask wrote:

Icefalcon wrote:

Damian Magecraft wrote:

Nightmask wrote:

Icefalcon wrote:Yeah, I don't get it either Ninjabunny. If they cannot find something different to play among literally thousands of other combos of class/race without complaining about that one thing they want to play, they blame the GM.

That's really not an accurate assessment of things, the GM aren't allowing all those combinations and especially if they are it comes off weak in the extreme to insist that one particular idea is forbidden while going 'but hey there's all this over here you don't want but might be close enough'. Why should someone have to settle for 'close enough' when others get exactly what they want? Especially if they're a good player and there's no reason to expect problems from them playing it.

But I have no proof they are a "good" player... just their word and an "awesome" (yet tired old retread I have seen abused a thousand times) character concept.
Nope not lifting my blanket ban until you prove you are a responsible player and not some closet munchkin looking for a game group to mentally/emotionally dominate. And arguing with me over that decision is not helping your insistence that you are a "good" player and not a self centered munchkin who cares about nothing but the mental masturbation that is his kewl character concept.

A bit harsh but an accurate description of how I am also.

A really bad position to work from though, assuming the worst about everyone and scrutinizing everything they do looking for evidence of something that's highly subjective and can easily take something innocent and read it wrong. Because generally if you're looking really hard for something you'll always find proof of it even if it doesn't exist. I've seen that too often over the years, people who couldn't do anything without it being taken wrong and eventually giving up over the frustration sucked all hope of any enjoyment out of things.

You deal with a problem when you actually have a problem, from that person, not because you had someone else be a problem and now cynically assume everyone's just a bad player that you have to just look to see where his bad area is. There are enough real problems that crop of no point to creating problems that aren't there or making extra trouble for everyone over something that has a good chance of not being a problem.

Eashamahel wrote:So, from 'how to get more players' all the way to why someones super hero is totally awesome but also totally balanced and fits into any game anyone could ever run and if he's not allowed to play that character in any game ever then that GM is terrible because he doesn't play it right and is bad at being a GM.

This has gone places.

Anyways, got my new group going, added yet another first time roleplayer, who happens to be the first gay man I have ever RPG'd with. Have gamed with a couple of lesbians before, but actually made a mental note to myself to include NPC's he could flirt/interact with, as I almost forgot that his character would default not be interested in women.

As he and I made his character, a process that I guided him through step by step which still took nearly 2 hours after I chose half of his skills for him, wrote his bonuses and set up the actual Character on paper, the three young women giddily played on I-Phones and Tablets. After going out to gaming stores in the area, they had spent a whole day looking at books, being swayed by salespeople, and become super hyped to play that night. Again of course, not to play Palladium games, but just to roleplay in general. Why not to play Palladium/Rifts in particular? Easy, no one sells it, no on in shops talks about it, and if you want to know why, it's clearly spelled out earlier in this thread (and no, it has nothing to do with forums).

Anyways, as they are all considering whether or not they are going to put their characters on I-Pads or leave them on the notebooks they all bought just to put their characters in, they start searching online. Are there Rifts Apps for character sheets, classes, that kind of stuff? Are there Rifts podcasts? 'Does Palladium do a Podcast?' 'I can't find one, but Dungeons and Dragons does!'. Is there a Rifts website? Any videos? Cool art?

Nope. Palladium doesn't do any of that.


Game went great. Everyone had fun. I run games so loose that no one comes up with rule problems, and they all loved it. Every Wednesday and Sunday we are playing, from now until they let their guards down and I can make a run for it. They would play any RPG if it was fun and someone they like ran it for them. They would never have chosen Rifts/Palladium on their own though, they never would have even heard about it.

PS- (my players, who dress up and try and hit fan expos every year)

Player 1 - Oh, look, Vampire and Changeling do LARPING, where you dress up in costumes.
Player 2 - Like at fan expo? That would be awesome! But I'd be too nervous to talk to anyone.
Me- Yeah, White Wolf has always done that, it's called Mind's Eye Theatre, it's pretty neat.
Player 2 - That would be neat. Have you ever seen anyone dressed up as anything from Rifts?
Me - ...nope.

Nightmask wrote:No, you agreed to play the game with the assumption going in that one would be playing by Palladium's rules, not necessarily the rules the GM has decided to add or modified from what the books have written.

Nightmask wrote:Why should someone have to settle for 'close enough' when others get exactly what they want?

Akashic Soldier wrote:Damian, this is only relivant from a page or so ago, but just so you know man. There are rules with hard numbers for creating your own spells in Mysteries of Magic, so when people ask if there are rules for making your own spells, you can say "Yes!"

say652 wrote:and yet we wonder why new people do not want to join rifts. the rules this but my house rule is this. the book says this but in my game its this. i no longer feel bad about leaving rifts, this is not the game for me and i will not ask new people to play.

The Beast wrote:

Akashic Soldier wrote:Damian, this is only relivant from a page or so ago, but just so you know man. There are rules with hard numbers for creating your own spells in Mysteries of Magic, so when people ask if there are rules for making your own spells, you can say "Yes!"

There's also a set of rules in Through the Glass Darkly, which are much better IMO.

say652 wrote:and yet we wonder why new people do not want to join rifts. the rules this but my house rule is this. the book says this but in my game its this. i no longer feel bad about leaving rifts, this is not the game for me and i will not ask new people to play.