Northern Gun 1 & 2

[Pepsi Jedi]

Well remember, wilks weapons are now disallowed in the CS. Their optics and stuff are fine but Wilks Weapons are now against the law.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

Well remember, wilks weapons are now disallowed in the CS. Their optics and stuff are fine but Wilks Weapons are now against the law.

It seems fairly obvious from reading the Chi-Town Burbs adventure supplements that this kind of stuff is scarcely enforced, since there are a couple of scenes where npc groups inhabit the burbs and wear obviously stolen-and-repainted CS armor and they somehow manage to survive countless patrols. And that is within miles of Chi-Town.

What i find amusing is the statement in that same section that most of the stuff the CS builds on their own uses components made by Wilks - and they dont even know it.

Basically nothing is legal in CS territory anymore - You cant use stolen CS weapons, cant use Wilks, cant use NE - leaving.. NG, Wellington Ind.... and Triax?

Certainly cant use anything explicitly Bandito/Black Market, either.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Well remember, wilks weapons are now disallowed in the CS. Their optics and stuff are fine but Wilks Weapons are now against the law.

It seems fairly obvious from reading the Chi-Town Burbs adventure supplements that this kind of stuff is scarcely enforced, since there are a couple of scenes where npc groups inhabit the burbs and wear obviously stolen-and-repainted CS armor and they somehow manage to survive countless patrols. And that is within miles of Chi-Town.

What i find amusing is the statement in that same section that most of the stuff the CS builds on their own uses components made by Wilks - and they dont even know it.

Basically nothing is legal in CS territory anymore - You cant use stolen CS weapons, cant use Wilks, cant use NE - leaving.. NG, Wellington Ind.... and Triax?

Certainly cant use anything explicitly Bandito/Black Market, either.

That's exactly the point. (( The part where you can only use NG, Wellington (Crap) and Traix, with in CS territory and not at all inside CS cities))

And not for nothing but the chi town burbs adventure supplements are a decade old and they kinda .... weren't the best books in the world when they came out.

As for surviving countless patrols, you can bet they're killed on sight when found. lol.

[flatline]

Well remember, wilks weapons are now disallowed in the CS. Their optics and stuff are fine but Wilks Weapons are now against the law.

It seems fairly obvious from reading the Chi-Town Burbs adventure supplements that this kind of stuff is scarcely enforced, since there are a couple of scenes where npc groups inhabit the burbs and wear obviously stolen-and-repainted CS armor and they somehow manage to survive countless patrols. And that is within miles of Chi-Town.

What i find amusing is the statement in that same section that most of the stuff the CS builds on their own uses components made by Wilks - and they dont even know it.

Basically nothing is legal in CS territory anymore - You cant use stolen CS weapons, cant use Wilks, cant use NE - leaving.. NG, Wellington Ind.... and Triax?

Certainly cant use anything explicitly Bandito/Black Market, either.

Lots of manufacturers make version so the L-20, so at a bare minimum, you can use a decent pulse laser rifle for a reasonable price, even in CS territory. Easily one of my favorite non-TW weapons in the setting.

--flatline

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

Oh, from an in-setting perspective, it should be that non-liscensed individuals shouldnt be able to carry ANYTHING in CS Territory, no matter who makes it. It already doesnt make a lot of sense. Ill see if i can dig up more references to 'The Burbs' being places where the laws are ignored. Im sure i read it recently in other books as well but ive been through so many books ( my personal collection stops at Free Quebec era books, had to borrow most of the newer books and dont want to keep them too long ) that my memory of which is which is blurred.

What is really hillarious to me is the supposed reason they banned Wilks armaments ("they sell to anyone, even D-Bees") - uh, so does NG and MI/WI... in giant job lots!

[Pepsi Jedi]

Oh, from an in-setting perspective, it should be that non-liscensed individuals shouldnt be able to carry ANYTHING in CS Territory, no matter who makes it. It already doesnt make a lot of sense. Ill see if i can dig up more references to 'The Burbs' being places where the laws are ignored. Im sure i read it recently in other books as well but ive been through so many books ( my personal collection stops at Free Quebec era books, had to borrow most of the newer books and dont want to keep them too long ) that my memory of which is which is blurred.

What is really hillarious to me is the supposed reason they banned Wilks armaments ("they sell to anyone, even D-Bees") - uh, so does NG and MI/WI... in giant job lots!

Well the 'reason' they did it was to help NG, who is producing things for the CS. It may not be the 'explained' reason but that's the 'real' reason. Also military grade weapon proliferation -is- something you want to keep an eye on.

[abtex]

Well remember, wilks weapons are now disallowed in the CS. Their optics and stuff are fine but Wilks Weapons are now against the law.

Why do they have an office building on the inside cover of the hard back Rifts book, just outside ChiTown?

[flatline]

Well remember, wilks weapons are now disallowed in the CS. Their optics and stuff are fine but Wilks Weapons are now against the law.

Why do they have an office building on the inside cover of the hard back Rifts book, just outside ChiTown?

One of the many dangers of advancing the time-line is that you older matrial seems to contradict newer material.

--flatline

[abtex]

Just for those who did not know there is Rifts Northern Gun One Advance Preview available. Free.

[Icefalcon]

Well remember, wilks weapons are now disallowed in the CS. Their optics and stuff are fine but Wilks Weapons are now against the law.

Why do they have an office building on the inside cover of the hard back Rifts book, just outside ChiTown?

Because they are still allowed to sell their electronics in Coalition territory.

[kaid]

Well remember, wilks weapons are now disallowed in the CS. Their optics and stuff are fine but Wilks Weapons are now against the law.

Why do they have an office building on the inside cover of the hard back Rifts book, just outside ChiTown?

Because they are still allowed to sell their electronics in Coalition territory.

The coalition is cracking down on almost every weapon vendor in their territory because they want their army to be the only ones packing serious fire power in their states which is both a pretty classic and normal move for a fascist state.

Wilks does a lot more than weapons though and they are one of the major suppliers of consumer electronics/optics and I don't think the weapon ban effects that.

I think eventually NG is going to have some serious problems with the coalition. Right now they are using their deal to their advantage and still sell to just about everybody. But as the coalition solidifies their control I see them giving NG an offer they cannot refuse. Basically join fully or get run over. After what they did in tolkeen I am not sure how willing the coalition is going to be to let NG stay independent long term.

[Icefalcon]

Regardless of weapon laws, Wilk's is the largest supplier of electronics on the North American continent. Everyone buys from them including the Coalition.

[kaid]

I was looking at some of my older books and I too am amused by ye olde crotch guns of some of the NG models. Still as silly as they look really if you think about how you arm a giant humanoid robot you have to give them something that can shoot stuff directly under their feet or you leave yourself very vulnerable especially in cities so a crotch gun is a pretty reasonable way to defend against that kind of threat. I was always amused by the old art work of the T-rex robot attacking the tank in one of the south america books that looked like it was Peeing on a tank.

[Icefalcon]

These titles just keep getting pushed back more and more. At this rate, we may not see them until 2014. I am getting to be highly angry about the delays on these books.

[kaid]

Right now things are moving about as I expected. Nothing much releases in december and with all the holidays rarely will you see much if anything happen in january. Now if they can get vamps out early feb we shall see how fast they can knock out NG1 and 2. Honestly as long as they get them out for the summer I am happy most of the kick starter stuff I do has a 1 year lead time anyway.

It seems like that vampire book has been a bit of a sticking point just must not be flowing super good creativity wise as it was supposed to come out before lemuria and has gotten preempted and bumped a few times now. I think NG1/NG2 likely will flow more smoothly.

[DhAkael]

Well...there's a shocker.
Megaverse in flames has been put to "Early 2013" which means, well...whenever.
NG Books 1 & 2 (which were kickstarter projects BTW; meaning that people who put money into 'em were assured a specific time frame to get thier books) aren't due until mid to late spring.

Honestly, not carring anymore.
SERIOUSLY, these books better be so well edited they'd make an Oxford English prof. weep with joy and filled with ORIGINAL and CREATIVE NEW STUFF to make even the most jaded gamer salivate, to make me cough out any money towards 'em.

[Athos]

Well...there's a shocker.
Megaverse in flames has been put to "Early 2013" which means, well...whenever.
NG Books 1 & 2 (which were kickstarter projects BTW; meaning that people who put money into 'em were assured a specific time frame to get thier books) aren't due until mid to late spring.

Honestly, not carring anymore.
SERIOUSLY, these books better be so well edited they'd make an Oxford English prof. weep with joy and filled with ORIGINAL and CREATIVE NEW STUFF to make even the most jaded gamer salivate, to make me cough out any money towards 'em.

I went back to some old Rifters, and Megaverse in Flames was supposed to be out in Fall of 2008... that was according to rifter 42, page 9. I guess early 2013 must be a "real" release date, I mean they wouldn't lie to us would they?

I am too easy, they know I will buy their books when they come out. I wish I were mad enough to not buy them, but I like them and enjoy the game, so eventually I will break down and give them my money, regardless of how late they come out. What is scary, is the idea that if they were better managed they could be a real company and make money, not just enough to survive, but enough to actually grow. I would spend more if they created more Rifts content. Original work that is, not cutting and pasting and reselling old books. Personally, I have little to no interest, and that is being generous, in any of their other games. But, I like Rifts, so I will continue to hope they release a book here and there, and when they do, I will buy it.

[DhAkael]

Well...there's a shocker.
Megaverse in flames has been put to "Early 2013" which means, well...whenever.
NG Books 1 & 2 (which were kickstarter projects BTW; meaning that people who put money into 'em were assured a specific time frame to get thier books) aren't due until mid to late spring.

Honestly, not carring anymore.
SERIOUSLY, these books better be so well edited they'd make an Oxford English prof. weep with joy and filled with ORIGINAL and CREATIVE NEW STUFF to make even the most jaded gamer salivate, to make me cough out any money towards 'em.

I went back to some old Rifters, and Megaverse in Flames was supposed to be out in Fall of 2008... that was according to rifter 42, page 9. I guess early 2013 must be a "real" release date, I mean they wouldn't lie to us would they?

I am too easy, they know I will buy their books when they come out. I wish I were mad enough to not buy them, but I like them and enjoy the game, so eventually I will break down and give them my money, regardless of how late they come out. What is scary, is the idea that if they were better managed they could be a real company and make money, not just enough to survive, but enough to actually grow. I would spend more if they created more Rifts content. Original work that is, not cutting and pasting and reselling old books. Personally, I have little to no interest, and that is being generous, in any of their other games. But, I like Rifts, so I will continue to hope they release a book here and there, and when they do, I will buy it.

I wish I could be as forgiving... I really really do.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

Well...there's a shocker.
Megaverse in flames has been put to "Early 2013" which means, well...whenever.
NG Books 1 & 2 (which were kickstarter projects BTW; meaning that people who put money into 'em were assured a specific time frame to get thier books) aren't due until mid to late spring.

Honestly, not carring anymore.
SERIOUSLY, these books better be so well edited they'd make an Oxford English prof. weep with joy and filled with ORIGINAL and CREATIVE NEW STUFF to make even the most jaded gamer salivate, to make me cough out any money towards 'em.

I went back to some old Rifters, and Megaverse in Flames was supposed to be out in Fall of 2008... that was according to rifter 42, page 9. I guess early 2013 must be a "real" release date, I mean they wouldn't lie to us would they?

I am too easy, they know I will buy their books when they come out. I wish I were mad enough to not buy them, but I like them and enjoy the game, so eventually I will break down and give them my money, regardless of how late they come out. What is scary, is the idea that if they were better managed they could be a real company and make money, not just enough to survive, but enough to actually grow. I would spend more if they created more Rifts content. Original work that is, not cutting and pasting and reselling old books. Personally, I have little to no interest, and that is being generous, in any of their other games. But, I like Rifts, so I will continue to hope they release a book here and there, and when they do, I will buy it.

Megaverse in Flames was supposed to be out in 2008.....?

O.o

That seems like a new record on the Palladium-is-always-late scale.

[Rockwolf66]

Well...there's a shocker.
Megaverse in flames has been put to "Early 2013" which means, well...whenever.
NG Books 1 & 2 (which were kickstarter projects BTW; meaning that people who put money into 'em were assured a specific time frame to get thier books) aren't due until mid to late spring.

Honestly, not carring anymore.
SERIOUSLY, these books better be so well edited they'd make an Oxford English prof. weep with joy and filled with ORIGINAL and CREATIVE NEW STUFF to make even the most jaded gamer salivate, to make me cough out any money towards 'em.

I went back to some old Rifters, and Megaverse in Flames was supposed to be out in Fall of 2008... that was according to rifter 42, page 9. I guess early 2013 must be a "real" release date, I mean they wouldn't lie to us would they?

I am too easy, they know I will buy their books when they come out. I wish I were mad enough to not buy them, but I like them and enjoy the game, so eventually I will break down and give them my money, regardless of how late they come out. What is scary, is the idea that if they were better managed they could be a real company and make money, not just enough to survive, but enough to actually grow. I would spend more if they created more Rifts content. Original work that is, not cutting and pasting and reselling old books. Personally, I have little to no interest, and that is being generous, in any of their other games. But, I like Rifts, so I will continue to hope they release a book here and there, and when they do, I will buy it.

Megaverse in Flames was supposed to be out in 2008.....?

O.o

That seems like a new record on the Palladium-is-always-late scale.

Lemura was late by over a decade.

[jaymz]

Yep. 2008. It is the last book in the minion war series. It was pushed back again and again and again for other titles.

[jaymz]

Well...there's a shocker.
Megaverse in flames has been put to "Early 2013" which means, well...whenever.
NG Books 1 & 2 (which were kickstarter projects BTW; meaning that people who put money into 'em were assured a specific time frame to get thier books) aren't due until mid to late spring.

Honestly, not carring anymore.
SERIOUSLY, these books better be so well edited they'd make an Oxford English prof. weep with joy and filled with ORIGINAL and CREATIVE NEW STUFF to make even the most jaded gamer salivate, to make me cough out any money towards 'em.

I went back to some old Rifters, and Megaverse in Flames was supposed to be out in Fall of 2008... that was according to rifter 42, page 9. I guess early 2013 must be a "real" release date, I mean they wouldn't lie to us would they?

I am too easy, they know I will buy their books when they come out. I wish I were mad enough to not buy them, but I like them and enjoy the game, so eventually I will break down and give them my money, regardless of how late they come out. What is scary, is the idea that if they were better managed they could be a real company and make money, not just enough to survive, but enough to actually grow. I would spend more if they created more Rifts content. Original work that is, not cutting and pasting and reselling old books. Personally, I have little to no interest, and that is being generous, in any of their other games. But, I like Rifts, so I will continue to hope they release a book here and there, and when they do, I will buy it.

Megaverse in Flames was supposed to be out in 2008.....?

O.o

That seems like a new record on the Palladium-is-always-late scale.

Lemura was late by over a decade.

Lemuria was indefinitely shelved quite a while ago prior to the "crisis of treachery" and was not offered for sale until this newer incarnation came tolight. Not like Mechanoid Space that been on "pre-order" status for i have no idea how long and was originally put out there by Kevin in 92.

[Sureshot]

I could of understand the frustration and anger at this point. Kevin needs to not promote or say anything about the book until it's at the printer. Nothing. Saying that the "book is almost done ready to go" and then six months to a year later it's still not released is annoying to be honest. Yes other stuff happens causing delays except it's not the first book that was almost done and delayed for months to a year. If the person working on the book tells me it's going to be out in a certain time I expect it to be out within that time frame. Espcially when after all this time Kevin should be able to guess how long a book will take to be worked on released in his sleep. I think some of the fanbase is giving the company a hard time because unlike most books fans paid out of pocket to get the NG books not only developed to be released in a timely manner. When the company pays out of their own pocket they can take as long as they want. When fans do so the company needs to step it up to a whole new level. Quite frankly I'm not seeing that from PB. It's the usual "its out and when it's out". Even if it means showing us that even with a outside help from the fans they can't get a book out on time. So I don't have much hope for future kickstarters. At least from PB books.

[earthhawk]

Megaverse in Flames was supposed to be out in 2008.....?

O.o

That seems like a new record on the Palladium-is-always-late scale.

Folks... I've been buying Palladium Books since the mid 80s (Robotech & TMNT, then Rifts).

They've ALWAYS been late! It's actually kind of part of the charm... you think Megaverse in Flames is late cuz it's working on 4+ years? Well, try Lemuria. That one was promised in 95? Rifts Africa 2, Scotland, Australia 2&3, all things in the pipe.

The thing is, Rifts is the bread and butter for Palladium. Unless I'm WAY off, everything else they do is paid for by Rifts. The fact that Kevin has put up his collectibles for sale on eBay points to me that Palladium isn't in the greatest financial shape, and likely isn't paying himself. Remember also, Palladium is the largest independent game company left. All the rest have been bought by bigger interests.

I do agree, some 'old ways of doing things' he should change, and they need to modernize a few things. Taking issue with the lateness of books is beating a big ol' bucket o' glue at this point.

How do you condsider late books part of the charm of Palladium? I think it's reflects very poorly on them, especially for those who paid money to be part of the Insider offer. To me it's the same story year after year, here I'll sum it up for you, and if I'm wrong please tell me:

"Wow!! ________ (insert year here) was awesome ! You guys rock!! If it wasn't for you, I don't know where Palladium would be!! Now I know that we missed some deadlines, but don't worry, I have renewed energy and I'm ready to rock for _______ (insert year hear)!! For those of you looking for ________ (insert book here), don't worry it's coming. I've been writing like a madman to get ________ (insert books here) out the door and into your hot little hands!! On another note I'm working on ______ (insert project here that will never see the light of day), and should be approving artwork for it soon. You're going to love ______ (nsert book here), it seriously rocks!!"

Now correct me if I'm wrong but the above is pretty much verbatim year after year after year. So when you say late books, missed deadlines, and calls that were supposed to made to Insider benefactors but were never made, part of the "charm" of Palladium books... well I can't help but laugh, but in a sad sort of way.

EH

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

Taking issue with the lateness of books is beating a big ol' bucket o' glue at this point.

Since it is one of the primary reasons game shops dont stock their books, and one of the primary reasons players dont order them, i think it is still a vital issue.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

I deal with game store owners for some of the conventions i work with; there are dealers here in Michigan who dont carry Palladium, because they dont get product out on time.

The size of Palladium hasn't changed significantly since they were doing very well. The size of the company isnt relevant to the discussion. Last Unicorn Games wasn't any larger, for instance, and they somehow managed to meet deadlines and get product out on time - well edited product, i might add. In short "it's a small company, and thats why stuff is late/badly edited and you just have to deal with it" doesn't hold the tiniest bit of water.

[earthhawk]

To be honest I wish they would sell Rifts to Hasbro, Fantasy Flight Games, Paizo or any other established gaming company that has the resources and reputation to make the game what it should be. As it stands right now Palladium is a niche game in an even tighter niche market, that has the reputation of not meeting deadlines on a consistent basis. Kind of hard to support the company if the only product that gets released on time is a quarterly splat book that sells for $11.95

[Sureshot]

I would not rather see Wotc have a hold of the Rifts IP. If they did and it did poorly they would sit on it. Fir years and do nothing with it. I would rather see Paizo, Fantasy Flight or anyone that has access and the money to do great minis acquire the Rifts IP. A rpg developer with the funds, the resources, the people as well as a willingness to change the rules if need be is required. To company also takes on too many projects in terms of what they can do. Mind you even companies with better resources suffer from doing too much. I'm a fan iof Green Ronin projects and a couple of months ago they released a hardcover deluxe version of their song of fire and ice rpg. Sounds good until you hear that the project was rushed, the dev thrown into the project last minute. Which resulted in them releasing a core book without errata. While having the previous version which was a less expensive pocket edition that had errata. That had to rush it out to make sure it was released in time for season 2 of the show.

Long story short it got around that the lastest version was missing errata and those like me who wanted the the current version with errata stayed away. It sold well enough yet sales were probably hurt because GR got sloppy. If I have to pay 60$ for the same book that has been worked on not one, twice but three times I expect their to be zero to no errata. Espcially when the pocket version at 20-25$ has the errata minus the full color glossy pages. I asked a month ago if the second printing odf the deluxe version was going to be released soon and it does not seem the case. I'm not trying to say that PB should not improve on release dates just that sometimes even other companies with better resources make mistakes.

[Icefalcon]

Taking issue with the lateness of books is beating a big ol' bucket o' glue at this point.

Since it is one of the primary reasons game shops dont stock their books, and one of the primary reasons players dont order them, i think it is still a vital issue.

Agreed.

[Icefalcon]

The biggest reason they're not stocked other than in specialty game stores is the name of the publisher isn't White Wolf/CCP or TSR/WotC/Hasbro. The main books are still out there. Again, Palladium is a small company. Many of their writers are freelance. Gotta play with the hand dealt. Even when the 'big' companies were independent, the game market on supply side has never been big.

The "small company" argument is getting stale. As many other people have shown in many other threads, there are tons of other small companies out there (5 or less employees). Many companies use freelance work. The only things unique to Palladium is their problem getting product out the door and the constant broken promises by the owner.

[Icefalcon]

Well...there's a shocker.
Megaverse in flames has been put to "Early 2013" which means, well...whenever.
NG Books 1 & 2 (which were kickstarter projects BTW; meaning that people who put money into 'em were assured a specific time frame to get thier books) aren't due until mid to late spring.

Honestly, not carring anymore.
SERIOUSLY, these books better be so well edited they'd make an Oxford English prof. weep with joy and filled with ORIGINAL and CREATIVE NEW STUFF to make even the most jaded gamer salivate, to make me cough out any money towards 'em.

I went back to some old Rifters, and Megaverse in Flames was supposed to be out in Fall of 2008... that was according to rifter 42, page 9. I guess early 2013 must be a "real" release date, I mean they wouldn't lie to us would they?

I am too easy, they know I will buy their books when they come out. I wish I were mad enough to not buy them, but I like them and enjoy the game, so eventually I will break down and give them my money, regardless of how late they come out. What is scary, is the idea that if they were better managed they could be a real company and make money, not just enough to survive, but enough to actually grow. I would spend more if they created more Rifts content. Original work that is, not cutting and pasting and reselling old books. Personally, I have little to no interest, and that is being generous, in any of their other games. But, I like Rifts, so I will continue to hope they release a book here and there, and when they do, I will buy it.

I wish I could be as forgiving... I really really do.

I wish I could be forgiving as well. However, I have better things to do and other games to play. I have already told my wife that after the NG books, I will not be buying any more Palladium books for a long time unless they can start getting their act together. This is not just me saying it, this is me taking my money elsewhere. I buy between 14-20 roleplaying books in a year. If Palladium is not willing to have the product out there for me to buy (especially when I fund it in advance and have been waiting 6 months already) then I will take my money to other companies whose games I enjoy playing.

As a side note, there are times when I get to drop a lot of money on roleplaying every few years. When I get that opportunity, I usually drop 5-6 thousand dollars in a single day. These are the kind of buying habits that Palladium is discouraging with their problems with releases.

[jaymz]

The biggest reason they're not stocked other than in specialty game stores is the name of the publisher isn't White Wolf/CCP or TSR/WotC/Hasbro. The main books are still out there. Again, Palladium is a small company. Many of their writers are freelance. Gotta play with the hand dealt. Even when the 'big' companies were independent, the game market on supply side has never been big.

The "small company" argument is getting stale. As many other people have shown in many other threads, there are tons of other small companies out there (5 or less employees). Many companies use freelance work. The only things unique to Palladium is their problem getting product out the door and the constant broken promises by the owner.

I'll add one thing. Before anyone of the staunch defenders jumps out to say "Kevin doesn't "promise" is books to be out on time it's just an overactive positive attitude and overconfidence in what he does and thats a good thing"

No it isn't. He promised the sequel books to BtS2. The the CoT occurred and most of us said "ok give the guy a break". In the 7 years since however we have had several books come out years late. Not months but years and the remained at best several months late. Every time the standard reason was essentially "I got too busy doing other stuff that I couldn't write/edit (and let's face it Kevin's editing is rewriting not editing)". I won't go into the fact that Kevin had been doing this for about 25 years PRIOR to the CoT and even then couldn't get anything out on time for the same reasons but you'd think at SOME point in the last 7 years of the same reasons causing him to NOT get books out in ANY kind of prompt fashion that he'd figure out he's got to change how he does things and who does certain aspects of the business in order for him to write and get things done quicker. This is never a matter of a quick cleanup. He re-writes significant portions of books and adds material in most cases which takes months to do.

I won't go into how he almost ALWAYS raves as to how awesome the freelancer's writing is which begs the question as to why it take shim so long to "edit" the manuscripts.

I also won't go into the fact he actually DID promise to get FIVE books out b year's end back in September. We got one.

And let's not rant about how the Rifter's get out on time. Kevin may do a first vetting of the material but he is pretty hands off otherwise.

Jeebus my local store doesn't stick anything. Their DISTRIBUTOR doesn't stock anything. The explanation I've been given by both is because they have no RELIABLE way to know if and or when ANY product will be out. I've gotten the same explanation from 3 other stores with different distributors all within an hour of me and I live in a fairly populated area of my country. These stores routinely carry new books by companies other than the big boys. They KNOW Palladium exists. I have ordered through them (to both support PB and to support my local shop), I have run games there (posted posters as well from the Rifts and Fantasy GM kit) and have run demos at the local con in which the local shop is one of the primary sponsors. THAT is not a good sign.

[Sureshot]

I don't want to sound like I'm making excuses for PB I"m not.Yet we are seeing even other companies that in the past have been good with release dates and editing also make mistakes and release products late. I really wanted to get the Deluxe edition of the game of thrones rpg. Between a lack of errata in the deluxe edition and GR response essentially being a polite "oops" well I'm not to sure to trust their future products as much as I used to. They have the same problem. Too much to do, too many licneses and not enough staff to do it.

As for PB one wonders how long they can keep missing release dates before it starts to really hurt the company finances. At the very lest more than it is now. I'm not sure even more kickstarters are going to fix the problem. I can understand rewriting to fits one vision. I refuse to beleive that every manuscript requires a rewrite. I wonder if it's less having to rewrite and more Kevin unfortunate habit to have to micromanage everything. Not really editing and rewriting to enhance a book more to do so for the sake of just rewriting and editing. At this point it's still the beginning of the year. Cancelling the open house was to me a good idea. Now to get at least some delays sorted out they need to focus on getting more books out. Not jumping from one project to the other. At the very least focusing on a project that can and will brin a return for the company like the Robotech minis. Anything else that might bring in a profit needs to be put aside for the moment imo.

[jaymz]

I don't want to sound like I'm making excuses for PB I"m not.Yet we are seeing even other companies that in the past have been good with release dates and editing also make mistakes and release products late.

That may be but I am willing to bet they haven't been doing it for 30 years like that....recent issues are mistakes, 30 years is standard operating procedure which is the problem.

[DhAkael]

The biggest reason they're not stocked other than in specialty game stores is the name of the publisher isn't White Wolf/CCP or TSR/WotC/Hasbro. The main books are still out there. Again, Palladium is a small company. Many of their writers are freelance. Gotta play with the hand dealt. Even when the 'big' companies were independent, the game market on supply side has never been big.

The "small company" argument is getting stale. As many other people have shown in many other threads, there are tons of other small companies out there (5 or less employees). Many companies use freelance work. The only things unique to Palladium is their problem getting product out the door and the constant broken promises by the owner.

I'll add one thing. Before anyone of the staunch defenders jumps out to say "Kevin doesn't "promise" is books to be out on time it's just an overactive positive attitude and overconfidence in what he does and thats a good thing"

No it isn't. He promised the sequel books to BtS2. The the CoT occurred and most of us said "ok give the guy a break". In the 7 years since however we have had several books come out years late. Not months but years and the remained at best several months late. Every time the standard reason was essentially "I got too busy doing other stuff that I couldn't write/edit (and let's face it Kevin's editing is rewriting not editing)". I won't go into the fact that Kevin had been doing this for about 25 years PRIOR to the CoT and even then couldn't get anything out on time for the same reasons but you'd think at SOME point in the last 7 years of the same reasons causing him to NOT get books out in ANY kind of prompt fashion that he'd figure out he's got to change how he does things and who does certain aspects of the business in order for him to write and get things done quicker. This is never a matter of a quick cleanup. He re-writes significant portions of books and adds material in most cases which takes months to do.

I won't go into how he almost ALWAYS raves as to how awesome the freelancer's writing is which begs the question as to why it take shim so long to "edit" the manuscripts.

I also won't go into the fact he actually DID promise to get FIVE books out b year's end back in September. We got one.

And let's not rant about how the Rifter's get out on time. Kevin may do a first vetting of the material but he is pretty hands off otherwise.

Jeebus my local store doesn't stick anything. Their DISTRIBUTOR doesn't stock anything. The explanation I've been given by both is because they have no RELIABLE way to know if and or when ANY product will be out. I've gotten the same explanation from 3 other stores with different distributors all within an hour of me and I live in a fairly populated area of my country. These stores routinely carry new books by companies other than the big boys. They KNOW Palladium exists. I have ordered through them (to both support PB and to support my local shop), I have run games there (posted posters as well from the Rifts and Fantasy GM kit) and have run demos at the local con in which the local shop is one of the primary sponsors. THAT is not a good sign.

One store in all of Toronto stocks new Palldium material.
ONE.
The most famous / largest comic & hoby store in all ONTARIO, 'The Silver snail' used to have every title on release day.
The last time they had ANYTHING Palladium, was the ill-fated and very poorly thought out "maga sized for your convience" Robotech half-RPG books. After that, nothing.
I have asked the manager why no more PBooks. His answer? "It's not worth it. Late release and mediocre product? I have better things to stock."
This coming from a guy who stocks McFarlane Toys (tm.) that stay on the shelves so long they go white with dust.

401 Games used to have a decent selection of PBooks titles. Now it's given over to White-Wolf.

Nope, only ONE store is bringing in new product from Palladium, and even he is getting fed up with the constant delays and having to explain to disgruntled gamers (who don't check the web-site); "No sorry, we have NO clue when it's gonna come out, and sorry the book that DID come in wasn't as awsome as advertized."

So yeah...
Think on it; largest city in all CANADA, and only one store.

That should make the people in the office think REAL hard about making any more excuses.

[Athos]

My advise is vote with your money then...

I think robotech, hu2, dead reign, etc. are all a waste of time and money, so I don't buy them. I looked at palladium fantasy, didn't like it, but kept it; won't be buying anymore titles from it though. I do like Rifts, and would like to see more emphasis put on it, and I do support it by buying the books.

Do I think all these other "games" are hurting PB? Yes. Do I think miniatures, coffee mugs, t-shirts, etc. are a waste? Yes. Is it my company? No.

Bottom line is that the owner of the company gets to make decisions, for better or worse, and that's the way a free market works. Either buy the products you like or don't. With any luck, PB will hire a business consultant to come in and tell them what to concentrate on (Rifts I hope) and they will stop wasting time and resources on junk that has little to no market. You notice they didn't go with crowd funding for anything other than Rifts? Does that tell you where their market is? So why do they waste time and energy on other things? Who knows, but that is their right.

[Sureshot]

I think they are taking baby steps with the Kickstsrters. It's not so much not wanting to do kickstarters so much that they want to see if it's worth the time and money to do so. As well considering how long it's taking for the two NG books why would they begin another kickstarter. I'm sure we will see other kickstarters for other rpg lines in the future. A lack of kickstarters for the other pb rpg lines does mean they are doing poorly imo. As for hiring anyone such as business consultant. I would be highly surprised li they did. Considering the state of the company one should have been hired years ago. At this point i'm not sure if even a BC can help the company at this point

[earthhawk]

I don't want to sound like I'm making excuses for PB I"m not.Yet we are seeing even other companies that in the past have been good with release dates and editing also make mistakes and release products late. I really wanted to get the Deluxe edition of the game of thrones rpg. Between a lack of errata in the deluxe edition and GR response essentially being a polite "oops" well I'm not to sure to trust their future products as much as I used to. They have the same problem. Too much to do, too many licneses and not enough staff to do it.

As for PB one wonders how long they can keep missing release dates before it starts to really hurt the company finances. At the very lest more than it is now. I'm not sure even more kickstarters are going to fix the problem. I can understand rewriting to fits one vision. I refuse to beleive that every manuscript requires a rewrite. I wonder if it's less having to rewrite and more Kevin unfortunate habit to have to micromanage everything. Not really editing and rewriting to enhance a book more to do so for the sake of just rewriting and editing. At this point it's still the beginning of the year. Cancelling the open house was to me a good idea. Now to get at least some delays sorted out they need to focus on getting more books out. Not jumping from one project to the other. At the very least focusing on a project that can and will brin a return for the company like the Robotech minis. Anything else that might bring in a profit needs to be put aside for the moment imo.

You think Robotech miniatures are going to turn a profit over Rifts books? I think you should count the number of posts in the Rifts forum VS. the Robotech forum. Now tell me how profitable do you think Robotech miniatures are going to be.

[DhAkael]

My advise is vote with your money then...

I think robotech, hu2, dead reign, etc. are all a waste of time and money, so I don't buy them. I looked at palladium fantasy, didn't like it, but kept it; won't be buying anymore titles from it though. I do like Rifts, and would like to see more emphasis put on it, and I do support it by buying the books.

Do I think all these other "games" are hurting PB? Yes. Do I think miniatures, coffee mugs, t-shirts, etc. are a waste? Yes. Is it my company? No.

Bottom line is that the owner of the company gets to make decisions, for better or worse, and that's the way a free market works. Either buy the products you like or don't. With any luck, PB will hire a business consultant to come in and tell them what to concentrate on (Rifts I hope) and they will stop wasting time and resources on junk that has little to no market. You notice they didn't go with crowd funding for anything other than Rifts? Does that tell you where their market is? So why do they waste time and energy on other things? Who knows, but that is their right.

I always vote with my wallet.
My bank account loves me because I haven't wasted my cash on stuff that is pretty much wasted dead tree (in my own opinion).
That being said, I'm willing to at least give NG 1 & 2 a glance over.

[Neo]

I don't want to sound like I'm making excuses for PB I"m not.Yet we are seeing even other companies that in the past have been good with release dates and editing also make mistakes and release products late. I really wanted to get the Deluxe edition of the game of thrones rpg. Between a lack of errata in the deluxe edition and GR response essentially being a polite "oops" well I'm not to sure to trust their future products as much as I used to. They have the same problem. Too much to do, too many licneses and not enough staff to do it.

As for PB one wonders how long they can keep missing release dates before it starts to really hurt the company finances. At the very lest more than it is now. I'm not sure even more kickstarters are going to fix the problem. I can understand rewriting to fits one vision. I refuse to beleive that every manuscript requires a rewrite. I wonder if it's less having to rewrite and more Kevin unfortunate habit to have to micromanage everything. Not really editing and rewriting to enhance a book more to do so for the sake of just rewriting and editing. At this point it's still the beginning of the year. Cancelling the open house was to me a good idea. Now to get at least some delays sorted out they need to focus on getting more books out. Not jumping from one project to the other. At the very least focusing on a project that can and will brin a return for the company like the Robotech minis. Anything else that might bring in a profit needs to be put aside for the moment imo.

You think Robotech miniatures are going to turn a profit over Rifts books? I think you should count the number of posts in the Rifts forum VS. the Robotech forum. Now tell me how profitable do you think Robotech miniatures are going to be.

How many rifts movies and anime series have you seen?

[earthhawk]

I have a love/ hate relationship with Rifts: It was the first RPG that I was GM for. I have all of the books for the game, and even though I can't find a group (I've tried, trust me), I still buy the books knowing that I'll probably never use them. There's so much potential with this franchise that I believe every single year, without fail, this is year they'll get it together, but in my heart of hearts I know they won't. Thirty years of history has told me they won't, and they can't, because they refuse to evolve and grow with the current times. I check the Palladium website at least once a week to see if anything has changed, but it hasn't and it never will. Palladium will always be a small gaming company that releases one to two books a year (although they say differently), and lives and breathes on the diehard fanship of a few hundred people that still play and collect the books.

EH

[earthhawk]

I don't want to sound like I'm making excuses for PB I"m not.Yet we are seeing even other companies that in the past have been good with release dates and editing also make mistakes and release products late. I really wanted to get the Deluxe edition of the game of thrones rpg. Between a lack of errata in the deluxe edition and GR response essentially being a polite "oops" well I'm not to sure to trust their future products as much as I used to. They have the same problem. Too much to do, too many licneses and not enough staff to do it.

As for PB one wonders how long they can keep missing release dates before it starts to really hurt the company finances. At the very lest more than it is now. I'm not sure even more kickstarters are going to fix the problem. I can understand rewriting to fits one vision. I refuse to beleive that every manuscript requires a rewrite. I wonder if it's less having to rewrite and more Kevin unfortunate habit to have to micromanage everything. Not really editing and rewriting to enhance a book more to do so for the sake of just rewriting and editing. At this point it's still the beginning of the year. Cancelling the open house was to me a good idea. Now to get at least some delays sorted out they need to focus on getting more books out. Not jumping from one project to the other. At the very least focusing on a project that can and will brin a return for the company like the Robotech minis. Anything else that might bring in a profit needs to be put aside for the moment imo.

You think Robotech miniatures are going to turn a profit over Rifts books? I think you should count the number of posts in the Rifts forum VS. the Robotech forum. Now tell me how profitable do you think Robotech miniatures are going to be.

How many rifts movies and anime series have you seen?

None. But Palladium owns the Rifts franchise, Harmony Gold own Robotech, so right off the bat you owe money to produce for someone else's franchise. Rifts is money in pocket, all you have to do is get product out there.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

I don't want to sound like I'm making excuses for PB I"m not.Yet we are seeing even other companies that in the past have been good with release dates and editing also make mistakes and release products late. I really wanted to get the Deluxe edition of the game of thrones rpg. Between a lack of errata in the deluxe edition and GR response essentially being a polite "oops" well I'm not to sure to trust their future products as much as I used to. They have the same problem. Too much to do, too many licneses and not enough staff to do it.

As for PB one wonders how long they can keep missing release dates before it starts to really hurt the company finances. At the very lest more than it is now. I'm not sure even more kickstarters are going to fix the problem. I can understand rewriting to fits one vision. I refuse to beleive that every manuscript requires a rewrite. I wonder if it's less having to rewrite and more Kevin unfortunate habit to have to micromanage everything. Not really editing and rewriting to enhance a book more to do so for the sake of just rewriting and editing. At this point it's still the beginning of the year. Cancelling the open house was to me a good idea. Now to get at least some delays sorted out they need to focus on getting more books out. Not jumping from one project to the other. At the very least focusing on a project that can and will brin a return for the company like the Robotech minis. Anything else that might bring in a profit needs to be put aside for the moment imo.

You think Robotech miniatures are going to turn a profit over Rifts books? I think you should count the number of posts in the Rifts forum VS. the Robotech forum. Now tell me how profitable do you think Robotech miniatures are going to be.

How many rifts movies and anime series have you seen?

I work at four major anime conventions a year and three smaller ones. Robotech is a consideration at approximately none of them. No one cares about it, shows it, or even really knows what it is. The few who are into giant-mecha anime would know Macross, but not Robotech, and that is a minority of that market now. A tiny, tiny minority.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

I want to be clear - i dont want Palladium to go under or the IP to be picked up by any of the current golden children of RPGs. I want Palladium to succeed, but given the way things are currently running, i see no path to success for Palladium.

Right now, i see two (two and a half?) options for Palladium's future:

1 - Kev and Co. continue on as theyve been doing. Palladium dies a slow death, and in 5-7 years, Kev has to throw in the towel, or, (and id hate to be right) the poor guy works himself into a heart attack or other major health problem. Simple fact is, the way things are going, there's no future for Palladium. Its already at the point where almost no one knows what it is, the system is a terrible shambles, and the product is late and often poorly produced. If things continue this way, the end is inevitable, no matter how herculean Kev's efforts to stave off the inevitable.

2 - Kev has a serious wake up call and realizes it is time for a now-or-never push. Yes, there's no money available to hire new talent - we hear that constantly - but the fact is there is NEVER going to be money to hire new talent if things go on as they are. Kev needs to realize that he's not a writer; hes an owner and a managing editor. Priority one after clearing the current "coming soons" off the docket should be a writers bible for each Palladium IP. That way, Kev shouldn't have to do massive re-writes of each manuscript to fit his ideal of Rifts - as long as the writers stick to the Bible, they shouldnt be stepping on anything Kev doesnt like. He needs to find some 'freelancers' who are willing to work on spec - yeah, easier said than done - or at least back-ended. He needs to assign the majority of the writing to them, and then manage them like a managing editor is supposed to. He shouldn't be writing more than one or two books a year himself. His first project after the writers bibles should be a massive overhaul of the entire Palladium core system to update it and consolidate (or better yet, discard) all of the myriad hundreds of rules scattered throughout dozens of books in each line, then produce a new core book for each line that is based on the core Palladium system but then customized to fit the material - like, no absurd strike penalties for high-tech vehicle combat in Rifts and Robotech but keeping those penalties in systems where it makes sense.

This can be done without invalidating old sourcebooks - the basic system for skills/combat is sound, so "converting" old books should never be hard.

Option 2 (i call it 2 1/2) has the potential to end spectacularly badly. It is also the only option i see for Palladium to ever pull out of the funk that it is currently in. If hiring more people is going to always have to "wait unilt theres money" - its never going to actually happen, because the money is never going to be there unless Palladium manages to recapture players, timeliness, and get the system itself sorted out.

Either Kev takes some risks to get the ship righted, or in a decade at the outside, there wont be a ship.

[Sureshot]

Well said. I would like to disagree with what you said. Truly I can't. Either keep the status quo and die a slow death. Or take a risk and try to at the very least streamline the system. With writers bibles needed to make sure that he runs the company. No one is saying that Kevin should never write. Constantly editing and rewriting manuscripts is not going to get them out any faster. They have a solid crew of freelancers. Your not going to convince me that Kevin needs to be looking over their shoulders 24/7 to make sure that everything they writes fits into his vision.

[Sureshot]

I really wish they had kept Chaos Earth seperate from the Rifts timeline. Orignally it was a setting where the coming of the Rifts was not as catastrophic and the effects of the Rifts were less felt on the planet. As boh a player and DM it was just great to have a Rifts style setting without the perpetual doom and gloom of the rifts setting. Instead they decide to release as basically being that no matter what your characters do humankind falls temproarily into a dark age and barely survive. In my gaming group I an no one really wants to run a rpg where no matter what the players do they get screwed in the end. Might as well just play rifts

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

I really wish they had kept Chaos Earth seperate from the Rifts timeline. Orignally it was a setting where the coming of the Rifts was not as catastrophic and the effects of the Rifts were less felt on the planet. As boh a player and DM it was just great to have a Rifts style setting without the perpetual doom and gloom of the rifts setting. Instead they decide to release as basically being that no matter what your characters do humankind falls temproarily into a dark age and barely survive. In my gaming group I an no one really wants to run a rpg where no matter what the players do they get screwed in the end. Might as well just play rifts

The moment i heard that Chaos Earth WAS the canon past of Rifts Earth and not the slightly-different, catastrophe-happened-five-minutes-later game it was originally stated to be in The Rifter and advertisements, i abandoned any plans to ever buy them.

Shoulda stuck to their guns. I liked the "Almost-Rifts" that was just one step shy of apocalypse that was originally intended. Making it just the past of Rifts Earth made it instantly boring and lame.

[Sureshot]

The moment i heard that Chaos Earth WAS the canon past of Rifts Earth and not the slightly-different, catastrophe-happened-five-minutes-later game it was originally stated to be in The Rifter and advertisements, i abandoned any plans to ever buy them.

Shoulda stuck to their guns. I liked the "Almost-Rifts" that was just one step shy of apocalypse that was originally intended. Making it just the past of Rifts Earth made it instantly boring and lame.

You know I would not have minded so much if at least they had left it open that the forces of Nema would eventually prevail. THey don't so seems kind of pointless imo to play. It's like the Old world of Darkness. Every game line from OWOD was doomed no matter what so even small victories felt useless imo. At least Rifts Earth humanity while still not fully in control of thep lanet is not at the complete mercy of what came out of the Rifts. That and the whole "it's a complete sourcebook really" also turned me off. Complete means in one book. Not having a seperate monster book, psionics book and magic book.

[jaymz]

Yeah I liked the original idea of Chaos Earth. Really don't know what happened to it to become THE great cataclysm time.

[Icefalcon]

I agree that Kevin needs to stop with these massive rewrites of every book. It is the biggest single reason for delays on every new release.

I have said it before, if I were to step away from Palladium for another ten years (the length of time I have been gone until a year ago) and then came back to catch up, I would not have to spend a lot of money to catch up. At least, if the release schedule stays like it is. I only buy Rifts, Nightbane and Dead Reign as it is. If I was gone for another ten years, by the time I got back there would only be about 6-10 books for Rifts and 2-4 for the others that I would have to buy to catch up. Unless Kevin can straighten up his act (which I seriously doubt) then this is what a lot of people are going to wind up doing.