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wow, all I can do is apologize for the fact that the ship I posted is post modification by our player group. The standard New Coventry version does not have the robot crew or the AI. We added those things in later after our characters terms of enlistment were up & we purchased a civilian refit of the ship. For the military version remove the robot crew & A.I. with a cost of 350,000,000 for the civilian yacht version reduce armor by 40% remove the large particle beam cannons, Military sensors, all stealth systems, A.I. & the power armor launch system. with a cost of 300,000,000

taalismn wrote:

SolCannibal wrote:In an utterly obscure aside, did not TMNT/After the Bomb's Guide to the Universe have some bare bones stuff on spaceships & other vehicles? Good bet it's even more out of synch than Mechanoids Trilogy stuff, but who knows, might be worth tinkering a little with.

Indeed, but aside from the Triceratons' massive asteroid ships/arks, the vessels in TMNT were essentially tin-walled shuttles.

From what i'm seeing, yeah, most of them might be pretty light and fragile even in other SDC settings like HU.... that said, stuff like the Utroms' transmats would make lots of people go stir-crazy - but truth be told, they already do in TMNT 'verse itself.

Appropo of nothing, a nice visualizer for "getting into the right head space" for doing anything space battles or otherwise for Phaseworld is a game on STEAM called Endless Space.

Sorta Masters of Orion meets Catan meets Gratuitous space battles.

Some nice ship designs in that thar game... I'm partial to the generic 'Pirate' vessles, even if they do keep on distracting me while empire building.

DhAkael wrote:Appropo of nothing, a nice visualizer for "getting into the right head space" for doing anything space battles or otherwise for Phaseworld is a game on STEAM called Endless Space.

Sorta Masters of Orion meets Catan meets Gratuitous space battles.

Some nice ship designs in that thar game... I'm partial to the generic 'Pirate' vessles, even if they do keep on distracting me while empire building.

Personally, I'm paradoxically and perversely attracted to the 'dieselpunk' starships of the now defunct general-system setting game Rocketship Empires(1936), because it allows you to use 1930s-1940s aircraft and warships as the basis of spacecraft.http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs10/i/2006/139/1/0/The_Other_Woman___Cutaway_by_Malaveldt.jpg

taalismn wrote:

DhAkael wrote:Appropo of nothing, a nice visualizer for "getting into the right head space" for doing anything space battles or otherwise for Phaseworld is a game on STEAM called Endless Space.

Sorta Masters of Orion meets Catan meets Gratuitous space battles.

Some nice ship designs in that thar game... I'm partial to the generic 'Pirate' vessles, even if they do keep on distracting me while empire building.

Personally, I'm paradoxically and perversely attracted to the 'dieselpunk' starships of the now defunct general-system setting game Rocketship Empires(1936), because it allows you to use 1930s-1940s aircraft and warships as the basis of spacecraft.http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs10/i/2006/139/1/0/The_Other_Woman___Cutaway_by_Malaveldt.jpg

Space Battleship Yamato 'verse meets Jules Verne. Iiiiiiii LIKE IT! Definately great for "You find an alien space craft; IT's toast but some of the tech inside..." reverse engineering of said tech and placing into contemporary vehicles for a space programme. Also great source material for Technowizards. Fleets of the 3G has a plethora of spells that would work for designs like this... IF the GM was willing to stretch the size limits.

More like Indiana Jones Meets E.E. 'Doc' Smith and HG Wells with heavy doses of HP Lovecraft.
It's very easy to throw in 'The Shadow' style psychics and 'Doc Savage' geniuses.
It's basically a general setting with generic guidelines allowing folks to plug in their own favorite game systems. It works rather well with SDC systems like Ninjas and Superspies and Aliens Unlimited, though the spacecraft construction rules are rather light on vessels larger than shuttles/fighters(basically anything larger than a 1930s/40s China Clipper aircraft or U-boat). These were supposed to addressed in follow-on books for capital ships and cargo traders(which like the Terran Trade Authority RPG supplements) never materialized.

Sorry, I gotta go with this....

https://www.flickr.com/photos/68675242@N08/8718943286/

taalismn wrote:More like Indiana Jones Meets E.E. 'Doc' Smith and HG Wells with heavy doses of HP Lovecraft.
It's very easy to throw in 'The Shadow' style psychics and 'Doc Savage' geniuses.
It's basically a general setting with generic guidelines allowing folks to plug in their own favorite game systems. It works rather well with SDC systems like Ninjas and Superspies and Aliens Unlimited, though the spacecraft construction rules are rather light on vessels larger than shuttles/fighters(basically anything larger than a 1930s/40s China Clipper aircraft or U-boat). These were supposed to addressed in follow-on books for capital ships and cargo traders(which like the Terran Trade Authority RPG supplements) never materialized.

Terran Trade Authority, loved those books in my early teens - the rpg was promising though the CG imitations of the originals were a little lackluster compared to the originals.

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Not related but daaamn!

SolCannibal wrote:

taalismn wrote:More like Indiana Jones Meets E.E. 'Doc' Smith and HG Wells with heavy doses of HP Lovecraft.
It's very easy to throw in 'The Shadow' style psychics and 'Doc Savage' geniuses.
It's basically a general setting with generic guidelines allowing folks to plug in their own favorite game systems. It works rather well with SDC systems like Ninjas and Superspies and Aliens Unlimited, though the spacecraft construction rules are rather light on vessels larger than shuttles/fighters(basically anything larger than a 1930s/40s China Clipper aircraft or U-boat). These were supposed to addressed in follow-on books for capital ships and cargo traders(which like the Terran Trade Authority RPG supplements) never materialized.

Terran Trade Authority, loved those books in my early teens - the rpg was promising though the CG imitations of the originals were a little lackluster compared to the originals.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/pulpcrush ... otostream/
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Not related but daaamn!

Indeed, and the supplement/remake book dropped the 'Hawksnest' anti-gravity base(you can go online through youtube to see some fan CGI of it, though).
And I was SO looking forward to the Capital Ships supplement...

Well, the great thing about the original TTA books is that they can be adapted to any rpg system with rules for spaceships as long as you feel like taking the time for it as they did have "stats" in a format heavily inspired by books of fighter planes and similar stuff. Pretty available even nowadays.

http://www.amazon.com/Spacecraft-2000-2 ... 0890092117
http://www.terrantradeauthority.com/tta-books-2/

That said, something i disliked from the RPG was how it tried to "upgrade" the TTA into some sort of neoliberal totalitarist cyberpunk state in space instead of "Space UN/NATO" its original portrayal tended towards.

But back on the original books, some review/analysis of their potential uses.
"Spacecraft 2000 to 2100 AD" is the one with "ship stats" i previously mentioned that could be ported into Phaseworld, Aliens Unlimited or any other interestelar setting of one's preference with a little work. It is the "crunchiest" work of the series.
"Great Space Battles" is pretty much a background book and along with "Spacecraft" chronicles the growth pains and expansion of (apparently human centric) Terran Federation (of which the TTA serves as administrative body) as its people spread across the stars, painting a dramatic scenario that could fit nicely as either past backstory of one many established states in the CCW (in Corckscrew even) or used in the present as the basis for a stellar power bloc of its own on either Anvil or Thundercloud.
"Spacewreck, Ghostships and Derelicts of Space" fits pretty well with Thundercloud and its themes of exporation, mystery & surprises.
"Starliners, Commercial Spacetravel in 2200 AD" is a comprehensive study of the largest civilian space-faring concerns operating in the books setting, making it great source material for organizations and the worlds that shaped them. Many of the organizations have also a line or two on the size and variety of their fleets. All around useful in any of the Threee Galaxies (or the space setting of your preference) i would say.

if you like the TTA stuff here are a few artist's to check out..

Vulnpro, who did the redo's used in the RPG.. you'll recognize him from some of palladium's stuff.

Artracoon, who does a lot of TTA and other source inspired ships. his art style is more anime-ish though. (you'll also need to sort through a bunch of pinup art, he hasn't sorted his gallery)

glitterboy2098 wrote:if you like the TTA stuff here are a few artist's to check out..

Vulnpro, who did the redo's used in the RPG.. you'll recognize him from some of palladium's stuff.

Artracoon, who does a lot of TTA and other source inspired ships. his art style is more anime-ish though. (you'll also need to sort through a bunch of pinup art, he hasn't sorted his gallery)

Going to check it out at least.

Other interesting material are the "Galactic Encounters" books: http://www.terrantradeauthority.com/gal ... ncounters/
Clearly inspired by the previous and sharing at least a few artists though made by a different publishing house. While there are some similarities and treating as complementary material might be possible, the 'verse they portray always seemed more fanciful and fantastic, veering more into planetary romance, Zardos and weird classic Star Trek-esque away team misadventures than the "semi-hard" sci-fi tone of the TTA books.

SolCannibal wrote:[
Other interesting material are the "Galactic Encounters" books: http://www.terrantradeauthority.com/gal ... ncounters/
Clearly inspired by the previous and sharing at least a few artists though made by a different publishing house. While there are some similarities and treating as complementary material might be possible, the 'verse they portray always seemed more fanciful and fantastic, veering more into planetary romance, Zardos and weird classic Star Trek-esque away team misadventures than the "semi-hard" sci-fi tone of the TTA books.

Got the whole series. Loved Space Patrol. And I fell in love with the Venture-class battleship(the Lima-class troop carrier in the original TTA books) Aliens In Space, too(though it presents a decidedly different take on the Alphans and the Proximans(especially the RPG updates where the respective species are less human-in-different-space-clothing).
The big problem with them, however, is more mundane; the bindings on the original hardcover editions fall apart very easily.

Great fun stuff indeed. Aliens In Space take on the Alphans and the Proximans, the fact Venture-class battleship, even though of a period supposedly a century later, is just like the Lima-class troop carrier of TTA's Lagunan, the implication in Space Quest that the Phalan Empire were the Federation's first encounter with a threatening space civilization, completely counter to TTA's Proximan AND Lagunan Wars, along other funny bits here and there make me conclude that treating the series as close but separate groups is the best way to make the most out of both in game.

And Phaseworld itself mentions how more than once in the history of the 3 Galaxies has some group of humans or other that thought itself alone in the cosmos named its world "earth" or the local equivalent and stick to the name long after they started to explore the stars and make colonies of their own, so it could fit nicely right away.

All hail the Elsonian Empire, whose ships all look cool!

a peek at a project i'm working on..
i named it after one ofthe stations in the old british Postal packet ship service..


Falmouth Class Courier
One of the lightest civilian ships on the open market, the Falmouth class is effectively a light space fighter built for non-military use. Roughly the size of the CAF's Scorpion fighter, the Falmouth is a flatish ovoid, with a low dome shaped bulge at the front for a cockpit. A single small airlock/hatch with steps on the outer door is on the bottom of the vessel, allowing entry into a small passageway to the cockpit. On each side of the vessel are retractable delta wings for greater atmospheric control. Just below the cockpit in the nose is a laser cannon, usually hidden behind a small, nearly invisible hatch.
Inside the ship, on one side of the passage way to the cockpit, is a small narrow bunk above the main cargo compartment, both of which are only accessible from the passageway. On the other side of the passageway is the utility closet, a small toilet and shower compartment, and a small kitchenette with systems for heating and cooling ration packs and a water dispenser. The cockpit itself has two seats, side by side, and while small, has room to move around and stretch ones limbs.
The Falmouth has become a staple of most CCW postal networks, using its high powered FTL drive and long endurance for its size to move physical messages and small valuable cargo's between worlds and outposts. The CAF has also adopted this vessel to carry orders and secure correspondence between fleets and bases, when transmission via FTL comm is not desired. Some private citizens have adopted the Falmouth for fast cargo delivery, prospecting, even as a personal transport. Those in private hands have often been modified, although no standard modifications have emerged.

Model Type: LPS-231
Class: Light Packet Ship
Crew: One, room for one passenger
M.D.C. By Location:
Nose Laser - 40
Retractable Delta Wings (2) – 100 each
Reinforced Pilot Compartment - 120
Force Field (regular) - 600
*Main Body – 450
* Depleting the M.D.C. of the Main Body means the ship is in tatters, with life support and contragravity systems knocked out, and is unable to fight or move under its own power. if the ship is reduced to -100 M.D.C., antimatter containment is breached and the ship explodes, doing 3D6x10 M.D. to everything within a 500 foot radius around the ship.

Speed: In space, Mach 8. In an atmosphere, maximum speed is mach 4. In FTL drive mode the ship can reach up to 6 Light years per hour.
Bonuses: +2 to dodge in atmosphere, +4 to dodge in space.
Range: Effectively unlimited, limited by the pilot's endurance and supplies. (life support lasts 24 days.)

Statistical Data:
Height: 10 feet (3.0 m)
Width: 31 feet (9.5 m) with the wings deployed. 20 feet (6 m) with wings retracted.
Length: 34 feet (10.4 m)
Weight: 10 tons
Cargo: Small utility closet with room for a light spacers suit, sidearm, rations for 24 days, and a limited amount of pilot personal effects. The main cargo compartment is a 6 foot long by 3 foot wide by 3 foot tall secured compartment used primarily for storage of physical mail, small packages, and small very valuable items.
Power System: antimatter, with an average energy life of 5 years.
Market Cost: 30 million credits.

Weapons and Systems:
1. Light HI Laser Cannon: the main and only weapon of the Falmouth class is a light laser intended for defense in the event the Courier is attacked.
Primary Purpose: Anti-fighter
Secondary Purpose: Point Defense
Mega-Damage: 2D4x10
Rate of Fire: Equal to the total number of hand to hand attacks of the pilot.
Effective Range: 2 miles (3.2 km) in space, half in an atmosphere.
Payload: Effectively unlimited.

2. Sensors: carries all standard fighter sensor systems (as found on page 20 of Dimension Book 13: Fleets of the Three Galaxies)

Oh, I like. Commercial craft for random adventuring.

taalismn wrote:Oh, I like. Commercial craft for random adventuring.

It's basically a "customize your own fighter" platform for mercenaries and criminals who want less of the government/black market hassle involved in acquiring military surplus and such...

Ok, groups like Naruni will sell weapons for anyone if given the chance, but it's a pretty good bet many states ain't quite so liberal or happy with that idea, so civilian craft that can be upgraded into combat worthiness might have an appeal and market potential among private individuals and groups - and would have uses even with those who do have the clout to possess military hardware, who might have occasional use for ships that aren't obviously militar (specially for less than legal operations).

i got frustrated with the lack of civilian craft in the game material (especially ones that could be used by a group of players), so decided to write up an article with say, half a dozen.. the Falmouth is #2 so far. (the procurer i did earlier is being added as well)

i based the size and performance off the Scorpion fighter, which being one of the smaller craft seemed a good idea. i then postulated a more shuttlecraft like design. (actually, i think the shuttlepod from star trek enterprise wound up this thing's distant cousin by way of looks. ) the interior layout is derived from a mix of the SU-34 bomber (which has the dual seat, kitchenette, and toilet), and Semi-trucks (which have a sleeping berth sometimes.) the closet i expanded on from the scorpion (which had a compartment only big enough for a sidearm, 12 days of dried food, and a water jug) to make it more useful, and i made the cargo compartment basically a big safe.

although i gave it a type based more on a naval concept, it's role is actually closer to the old air mail aircraft.. these are the craft that would carry the urgent mail (stuff that can't wait long enough to be bundled, loaded onto slower freighter, and brought to their destination to be unloaded and distributed) that is either too private, or not important enough, to be sent via FTL comm..

glitterboy2098 wrote:i got frustrated with the lack of civilian craft in the game material (especially ones that could be used by a group of players), so decided to write up an article with say, half a dozen.. the Falmouth is #2 so far. (the procurer i did earlier is being added as well)

i based the size and performance off the Scorpion fighter, which being one of the smaller craft seemed a good idea. i then postulated a more shuttlecraft like design. (actually, i think the shuttlepod from star trek enterprise wound up this thing's distant cousin by way of looks. ) the interior layout is derived from a mix of the SU-34 bomber (which has the dual seat, kitchenette, and toilet), and Semi-trucks (which have a sleeping berth sometimes.) the closet i expanded on from the scorpion (which had a compartment only big enough for a sidearm, 12 days of dried food, and a water jug) to make it more useful, and i made the cargo compartment basically a big safe.

although i gave it a type based more on a naval concept, it's role is actually closer to the old air mail aircraft.. these are the craft that would carry the urgent mail (stuff that can't wait long enough to be bundled, loaded onto slower freighter, and brought to their destination to be unloaded and distributed) that is either too private, or not important enough, to be sent via FTL comm..

It's a valid idea - some writers get too much into a "if it's not going to enter combat, it doesn't really need stats" mentality when it comes to material presented in the books.

i'm still working on coming up with ideas for the other ships.. i'd like to have at least 1 alternative runner ship type, just thinking on features right now. i want it to be different from the one in the main phaseworld book.

i've had suggestions of a space cruise liner. and someone else suggested a coast guard type ship.. personally though i'd prefer to stick top stuff that would be more likely to be in the hands of a player character group..

Something that has crossed my mind is what would be ship models be like in Anvil Galaxy's Central Alliance. Considering most of the worlds there no longer have FTL capability, i would imagine the greater part of Noldek's fleet - or at least that of the regional governors - would be composed of second hand materials bought or taken by force from pirates, local warlords and any groups that crossed his territory or thought of using it as a hideout, but starships of all kinds would be rare and valued to be protected and salvaged as possible.

Combine that line of thought with local appeal of 'borgs and personal combat and you can get into a "lives are cheap, drives irreplaceable" kind of logic. I imagine their ships somewhat like those in the original Starship Troopers book, where the focus is not on ship-to-ship combat per se, but on dropships and troopships, possibly ones that literally shoot their heavily armored troopers at the enemy so it may assault and take over the enemy's resources by force.

Just a crazy image of sorts that has crossed my mind that i have no idea of how pratical or feasible would be.

What Ships from AU and Galaxy guild,do you think look good?

I like them all. All of them. Just because.

SolCannibal wrote:

glitterboy2098 wrote:i got frustrated with the lack of civilian craft in the game material (especially ones that could be used by a group of players), so decided to write up an article with say, half a dozen.. the Falmouth is #2 so far. (the procurer i did earlier is being added as well)

i based the size and performance off the Scorpion fighter, which being one of the smaller craft seemed a good idea. i then postulated a more shuttlecraft like design. (actually, i think the shuttlepod from star trek enterprise wound up this thing's distant cousin by way of looks. ) the interior layout is derived from a mix of the SU-34 bomber (which has the dual seat, kitchenette, and toilet), and Semi-trucks (which have a sleeping berth sometimes.) the closet i expanded on from the scorpion (which had a compartment only big enough for a sidearm, 12 days of dried food, and a water jug) to make it more useful, and i made the cargo compartment basically a big safe.

although i gave it a type based more on a naval concept, it's role is actually closer to the old air mail aircraft.. these are the craft that would carry the urgent mail (stuff that can't wait long enough to be bundled, loaded onto slower freighter, and brought to their destination to be unloaded and distributed) that is either too private, or not important enough, to be sent via FTL comm..

It's a valid idea - some writers get too much into a "if it's not going to enter combat, it doesn't really need stats" mentality when it comes to material presented in the books.

Yea not every thing needs to be about blowing things up. I ran a game with an Idea the party was part of UWW Supernatural response and research. There ship was an TW research ship and its most distinguished feature is it was a flying saucer to make use of Circle of protection greater. The idea was that the ship would be dispatched to an area with a SN crisis and find a way to solve it. I was thinking about bringing it back for the whole minion war thing. Think I have the stats in a old notebook. Might be worth posting.

Blue_Lion wrote:

SolCannibal wrote:It's a valid idea - some writers get too much into a "if it's not going to enter combat, it doesn't really need stats" mentality when it comes to material presented in the books.

Yea not every thing needs to be about blowing things up. I ran a game with an Idea the party was part of UWW Supernatural response and research. There ship was an TW research ship and its most distinguished feature is it was a flying saucer to make use of Circle of protection greater. The idea was that the ship would be dispatched to an area with a SN crisis and find a way to solve it. I was thinking about bringing it back for the whole minion war thing. Think I have the stats in a old notebook. Might be worth posting.

The shape to make the most of the circle's effect? Awesome example of TW-style logic at work.
Got to keep it in mind for my "1st contact shifter diplomat" homeworld in Rifts.

SolCannibal wrote:

Blue_Lion wrote:

SolCannibal wrote:It's a valid idea - some writers get too much into a "if it's not going to enter combat, it doesn't really need stats" mentality when it comes to material presented in the books.

Yea not every thing needs to be about blowing things up. I ran a game with an Idea the party was part of UWW Supernatural response and research. There ship was an TW research ship and its most distinguished feature is it was a flying saucer to make use of Circle of protection greater. The idea was that the ship would be dispatched to an area with a SN crisis and find a way to solve it. I was thinking about bringing it back for the whole minion war thing. Think I have the stats in a old notebook. Might be worth posting.

The shape to make the most of the circle's effect? Awesome example of TW-style logic at work.
Got to keep it in mind for my "1st contact shifter diplomat" homeworld in Rifts.

When I find the stats for it I will type them up and post them. given the minion war a Supernatural Response and Research Idea might be something people want to try. Think of them as FEMA for magical problems.

Blue_Lion wrote:

SolCannibal wrote:

Blue_Lion wrote:

SolCannibal wrote:It's a valid idea - some writers get too much into a "if it's not going to enter combat, it doesn't really need stats" mentality when it comes to material presented in the books.

Yea not every thing needs to be about blowing things up. I ran a game with an Idea the party was part of UWW Supernatural response and research. There ship was an TW research ship and its most distinguished feature is it was a flying saucer to make use of Circle of protection greater. The idea was that the ship would be dispatched to an area with a SN crisis and find a way to solve it. I was thinking about bringing it back for the whole minion war thing. Think I have the stats in a old notebook. Might be worth posting.

The shape to make the most of the circle's effect? Awesome example of TW-style logic at work.
Got to keep it in mind for my "1st contact shifter diplomat" homeworld in Rifts.

When I find the stats for it I will type them up and post them. given the minion war a Supernatural Response and Research Idea might be something people want to try. Think of them as FEMA for magical problems.

The UWW makes me think more of a Lazlo Foundation with gonzo 007 style vehicles and guns but magical FEMA certainly works too.

Well there are not going to responding to floods and earthquakes. But things like finding a way to stop X alien intelligence from enter, dealing with vampire infestations, or removing the cause of demon outbreak. So there jobs can involve investigation, research and development of counter measures and even combat. Typically if they are called in the event is beyond what the locals can deal with on their own. The also had a proficient navigation system that could predict where they would be most useful with a 25% accuracy rate but never told them how they would be useful when they got there.

Think the slogan for the group was "You call it saving your world we call it just another day at the office."

Blue_Lion wrote:Well there are not going to responding to floods and earthquakes. But things like finding a way to stop X alien intelligence from enter, dealing with vampire infestations, or removing the cause of demon outbreak. So there jobs can involve investigation, research and development of counter measures and even combat. Typically if they are called in the event is beyond what the locals can deal with on their own. The also had a proficient navigation system that could predict where they would be most useful with a 25% accuracy rate but never told them how they would be useful when they got there.

Think the slogan for the group was "You call it saving your world we call it just another day at the office."

I wasn't even thinking of that, as i didn't really know of FEMA until i checked google 5 minutes ago - i simply thought you meant a TW-version of Chaos Earth's NEMA, Chrome Defenders and all that jazz, because there's no kill like overkil.

And i meant Lazlo Society, from Beyond the Supernatural, not any real group called Lazlo (or Laszlo) Foundation that might exist online.

SolCannibal wrote:

Blue_Lion wrote:Well there are not going to responding to floods and earthquakes. But things like finding a way to stop X alien intelligence from enter, dealing with vampire infestations, or removing the cause of demon outbreak. So there jobs can involve investigation, research and development of counter measures and even combat. Typically if they are called in the event is beyond what the locals can deal with on their own. The also had a proficient navigation system that could predict where they would be most useful with a 25% accuracy rate but never told them how they would be useful when they got there.

Think the slogan for the group was "You call it saving your world we call it just another day at the office."

I wasn't even thinking of that, as i didn't really know of FEMA until i checked google 5 minutes ago - i simply thought you meant a TW-version of Chaos Earth's NEMA, Chrome Defenders and all that jazz, because there's no kill like overkil.

And i meant Lazlo Society, from Beyond the Supernatural, not any real group called Lazlo (or Laszlo) Foundation that might exist online.

But lets face it playing as a member of a group that saving the world is just another Monday. Lots of pressure for a group like that, lots of ways to take it, and room to play with. It also led to allot brain storming on how the TWs could use there powers to counter threats, as well as prevent future threats. So they did fight when needed but the players often focused on giving the locals the tools to defend them self from the threat.(at least that is what the group I ran did) A group like that would be in high demand in the Minion wars, a front line RD lab to develop new tactics and strategies to fight back. (I do not have beyond the supernatural.)

Any ideas on a ship to the replace the CCW,s Warshield cruiser?

Seeing that the TGE,s Smasher carry 36 fighters,the CCW wants the New Cruiser to carry the same number.

What do you think?

gaby wrote:Any ideas on a ship to the replace the CCW,s Warshield cruiser?

Seeing that the TGE,s Smasher carry 36 fighters,the CCW wants the New Cruiser to carry the same number.

What do you think?

Wish i did - probably only after holidays, as i'm in the middle of nowhere right now.

gaby wrote:Any ideas on a ship to the replace the CCW,s Warshield cruiser?

Seeing that the TGE,s Smasher carry 36 fighters,the CCW wants the New Cruiser to carry the same number.

What do you think?

Do they really need that? The Warshield is a very dangerous ship in the line of cruisers without a real competitor. It is cheap for what it can do, its firepower is fearsome and carry multiple small crafts. On its own, it can destroy any other canon ship (except the TGE dreadnought and the largest daemon ship and the Altess battlecruiser but all of these ships are capital class targets not sub capital like the Warshield) without problem.
The Warshield do not need extra fighters to get its job done. Where the CCW fleet needs a greater number of fighters, they simply deploy a fleet carrier or multiple cruisers or a single cruiser with frigate/Destroyer escort (each one with their own fighter screen).

I think the mentioned two ships are built for different roles. The Smasher is an up-armed light carrier (this is why it carries 36 realtively weak and slow fighters), while the Warshield is a war cruiser (heavily armed and armored, with a fighter squadron and assault robot). The former designed to carry multiple small craft and release them to overwhelm enemy defense or made a blokade, while support its fighters from long range away from the close combat where it will be shot down less than a minute whitout doing any real damage. The Warshield is a war crusier designed as a real ship of the line that can go face to face against any target, can withstand enemy fire both from long range and close, it can defend itsel against fighters/frigates and cruisers without extra support. But it also carries multiple fighters and even a ship killer robot vehicle. This ship is a real beast without them, they only extends its strike/detection range.
A Smasher without its fighters is a very weak transport ship with a single, slow heavy gun and must be used in large numbers to deliver damage. It needs all of its fighters to do similar damage done by a single Warhield cruiser and in this case, the warshield not even used its own fighters and robot just its guns and missiles.

Also the CCW's fighters have greater firepower, better agility and are more survivable than the TGE's Flying Fang. A single Black Eagle/Katana (especially the latter with anti-fighter pods) could kill two or even three FFs without problem. Even a single Scorpion can kill any FF from long range (I know, the FF can release 4-8 MRM-s but those need time to hit their taget and those missiles can be shot down if they released from long range or the Scorpion simply outrun them without problem).

If you really need such ship, just use a reconfigured Warshield (a cargo wariant). Put on 24 medium sized (BE/Katana) or 36 small sized (Scorpion) fighters. Use the same stats (armament, speed, MDC, shield and so on) without the heavy guns and CRMs, smaller crew, no or minimal marine contingent. Such ship can still kill multiple frigates/destroyers without problem and able to cripple any larger targets with large missile salvoes from long range.

Or use the Aranae (form the Fleets book) as the base template for a mid sized battlecarrier (heavy armed carrier, that can jump in the middle of a battle, release its fighters and remain in close combat with other ships). Just rearm it (a dozen extra medium weapon systems will be more than enough, maybe with a single heavy turret to be more intimidating), drop the interdictor field (I think this system fills most of the internal space). Without the filed, I think you can double or even triple its basic aerospace group size.
You can even replace the SAS shuttles or the Proctors (each proctor can be replaced by two medium fighters while each large shuttles can be replaced by 12 fighters which means 120 fighters if you replace both the shuttles and the Proctors) with fighters and you have your new, shiny carrier with a lots of fighters and enough guns to kill almost any other ship on its own. This ship can be run by a much smaller crew than the Aranae and you can get a dozen or more for the price of a single Aranae class interdictor ship. As above, use the speed/hull MDC/shield and other stats of the Aranae with smaller crew, extended armament and larger aerospace group and you got a very good ship.

Your Right that in a One on One fight the Warshield is better then Smasher.
But I think light carriers will be in the IDF,to keep Warshield in the main forces.

gaby wrote:Your Right that in a One on One fight the Warshield is better then Smasher.
But I think light carriers will be in the IDF,to keep Warshield in the main forces.

The Warshield and its 12 fighters (especially 12 Katanas) are more than a match to two or even three Smashers. It can gun down two less than a minute (two main guns, each shooting two double blasts per melee which means 8D4x1000 MDC damage) from long range, way beyond the range of the enemy fighters, and in this case only its main guns used, not a single missile released, not even its fighters attack its target. Katanas with their insane amount of MRMs (32 per Katana with 2 anti-fighter pods) will kill the enemy fighters without problem and outrun their missiles if they want. After killing enemy fighter cover, they close in to their carriers and release their CRMs (4 per Katana, carried on pylons).

On one on one fight, the Warshield is better than any other cruiser class ship in the canon. It can easily outgun two or three sometimes without using its fighters and they are rarely go patrol alone. Sometimes they used that way, but most of the time, they are escorted by Proctors and frigates/destroyers. Only its speed is a little low and need a tweak/upgrade, but beyond that, this single ship can kill almost a small fleet of other lighter ships or even several other "cruisers" alone, without help.

The CAF can put more fighters in the cargo bays on the standard Warshield if they want to (we don't know how large are the cargo bays on that crusier, we only know its capacity in tons). Maybe you can double the number of fighters this way and this will cost you nothing.

I think the CCW need a carrier type instead of a new cruiser with a little more fighter on it. No other cruiser can match their Warshield and if they need more firepower, they ca nuse multiple Warshields or a Protector Battleship if they want to.
All of the currently used CCW ships can carry fighters so they all have additional firepower thanks to them, but their only carrier type is a capital class fleet carrier and their new dreadnought.
A smaller, cheap light carrier will give them much more than a cruiser with more fighter and firepower. A light carrier, escorted by frigates and destroyers can be the core of their system defence forces or patrol fleets. Suchs small force, with a light carrier that carries 4 to 6 fighter squadrons (CCW fighters) can delay or even destroy a TGE flotila (3 Smashers and 6 Berserkers) and damage them before the cavalry (a Warshield and its escort ships) arrives to finish the job and devastate the enemy. Even a TGE battleship with a small flotila will be in danger against this force.

Such lighter carrier types are ideal system defense/scout ships, excellent escort for a single or several cruisers, you can use them for blockade and capture/interdiction/interception missions and usually they are faster than a cruiser so they can avoid close combat if they want to. Also they can be used as mobile repair/resupply station for FTL fighters and patrol ships. Yes, they are not a (close)combat ship like a cruiser, but that is why you deploy and use cruisers, to kill enemy cruisers and heavy ships.

The CAF can even reconfigure the Scimitar to escort carrier role if they want. I think it could carry a dozen fighter craft easily. You just need to lower its passenger capacity to free enough space for that. A very light ship, small price tag, no changes on its external parts (easily fool any enemy that calculates only 6 attack craft per ship), that carries 12 or even 18 fighters (if you use the smaller scorpions) will be a very good addition for the CCW and a really good escort ship for a cruiser or larger ship.


IDF are independent form the CAF Fleets. They are maintained (and bought) by individual planets/systems and governments, not commanded by the fleet commanders. Also, these forces can buy any number of Warshields if they want, but for triple cost, so I think if there is a reason why a Warshield is not a common ship in IDF this will be that reason.

gaby wrote:Any ideas on a ship to the replace the CCW,s Warshield cruiser?

Seeing that the TGE,s Smasher carry 36 fighters,the CCW wants the New Cruiser to carry the same number.

What do you think?

Err... Nope.

As per DMB3, Three Smashers and six Berserkers form the typical TGE flottila.

Their CCW equivalent are a Warshield plus 2d4 frigates (SCimitar or Hunter), plus 2d6 Proctor or Black Eagle.

And this means a slight CCW advantage on average.

No need to phase out or even supplement the Warshield (thought it is hard to beleive that there is only one
"frontline cruiser" type for the CCW of this size and role).

Especially not, if the Flying Fang keeps to form the main (and only) TGE fighter type and Silverhawks can still go toe to toe with "proper" fighters.

KLM wrote:
No need to phase out or even supplement the Warshield (thought it is hard to beleive that there is only one
"frontline cruiser" type for the CCW of this size and role).

There are three another cruiser types (I know, only one of this could be frontline cruiser, but all of them can be used this way). The first one is the Aranae with its interdictor field. The second one is the Stonewall (Fleets of the Three Galaxies, page 26., basic stats only) and the third one is the Explorer (Three Galaxies, Page 135-138., this could be the other frontline cruiser type).

The Aranae can be modified to carry much more fighters (just replace each assault shuttles with 8 heavy - like the Star Ghost or the Draygon Bomber - or 12 medium fighters). Even the proctors can be replaced with smaller fighters (2 smaller fighters in place of each proctor). Without other modification than replacing the shuttles with fighters, the fighter capacity goes up to 96 fighters and 12 proctors (without proctors, this number will be 120)!

Over the already mentioned 4 ships, I think that the CAF bought several hundred Conquistador cruisers (Minion Wars Dimensional Outbreak, page 162-164.) from the NE, just like many IDF mentioned in its description. It is not as good as their Warshield (its main gun is much weaker, no shields), but still much better and cheaper than their other alternatives and carries more fighters. Also, as a common ship, can be used for covert operations.

You know this got me thinking maybe we should come up with what rolls of ships fleets would need then identify what wholes empires might need.

Such as-

Civilian- Small- Racer, personal transport/commuters, supply shuttles.
Civilian-Large-Cargo transport, Yacht, Pleasure, Cruise/people transport, research, Medical/disaster relief, salvage and slaver transport.
(For a good variety for group perhaps 2-3 of each type.)

Military-Small- Interceptor(anti-Fighter), bomber, Attack, Recon, Supply/cargo shuttle, Medical shuttle, slaver and stealth.
Military-Large- Supply, Support, Medical, Troop transport, escort, assault(front line combat), carrier, Intelligence, Stealth, Missile boat, Command/flag, Stealth, Flack/anti-aircraft, raider, slaver and research.
(Some ships would fill multiple rolls, not every empire will have ships for every roll, IE CCW will probably not have raiders or slavers.)

sagajr wrote:

KLM wrote:
No need to phase out or even supplement the Warshield (thought it is hard to beleive that there is only one
"frontline cruiser" type for the CCW of this size and role).

There are three another cruiser types (I know, only one of this could be frontline cruiser, but all of them can be used this way). The first one is the Aranae with its interdictor field. The second one is the Stonewall (Fleets of the Three Galaxies, page 26., basic stats only) and the third one is the Explorer (Three Galaxies, Page 135-138., this could be the other frontline cruiser type).

Partly right.

The Aranea is the right size, but the fighter/small craft compliment is strange... If I remember correctly, there are no troops, nor tanks for the shuttles.

We do not know the Stonewall's size (tonnage, to be proper).

As for the Explorer... She has a few million tons, so she is more like "half a Protetector".

Blue_Lion wrote:You know this got me thinking maybe we should come up with what rolls of ships fleets would need then identify what wholes empires might need.

It should be noted, that - as well as most historical and contemporary wet navies - empires usually come up with the tasks for one design within the fleet, then name give the class a well sounding name.

For example within the fleet, we need some long range vessels, capable to patrol for months, usually alone, and fullfill a variety of tasks, like anti-piracy, first contact, humanitarian help, moving cargo and personell, mapping space and planets, etc.

During design the team assess most situation and threats, that the vessel-to-be would encounter (like the ubiqtous Berserker ).

So they call it a "patrol ship" (Scimitar), thought it is generally frigate size.

KLM wrote:

Blue_Lion wrote:You know this got me thinking maybe we should come up with what rolls of ships fleets would need then identify what wholes empires might need.

It should be noted, that - as well as most historical and contemporary wet navies - empires usually come up with the tasks for one design within the fleet, then name give the class a well sounding name.

For example within the fleet, we need some long range vessels, capable to patrol for months, usually alone, and fullfill a variety of tasks, like anti-piracy, first contact, humanitarian help, moving cargo and personell, mapping space and planets, etc.

During design the team assess most situation and threats, that the vessel-to-be would encounter (like the ubiqtous Berserker ).

So they call it a "patrol ship" (Scimitar), thought it is generally frigate size.

Think that was just a long explanation of the idea I was talking about. Identifying the major rolls that ships would be designed to fill and seeing what the fleet is lacking.

I do not think I have all the phase world books to look up fleets ships in. So without knowing what the fleet already had I would be likely to make a ship that they already had a ship for.

I do not think a long range patrol ship would be good for moving troops and cargo as most of its cargo space would be for consumables and repairs. But you could add anti-smuggling and anti incursion missions. Given the size and roll humanitarian help would probably be limited by the amount of supplies they have on hand. They will of course help when they can but a ship with a focus on what is needed might exist. Such as Medical frigate, that is basically a space traveling hospital helping with a plague out break (during combat such ship would serve as a medical evac point for ground forces but not every empire would use them.)

KLM wrote:[

Partly right.

The Aranea is the right size, but the fighter/small craft compliment is strange... If I remember correctly, there are no troops, nor tanks for the shuttles.

We do not know the Stonewall's size (tonnage, to be proper).

As for the Explorer... She has a few million tons, so she is more like "half a Protetector".

The Aranae is a strange ship indeed. It carries 750 people without purpose or dedicated roles (general enlisted). Maybe it use its shuttles for carry the captured ship's cargo onboard?
Also its crew is too large for the carried equipment and forces.

The Stonewall's stats can be found in the Rifter 66 (in the pirate article). Sadly I don't own that Rifter.

The Explorer is also a strange ship. Too heavy for its size. I think its author is miscalculated its mass. It will be good as a 500,000 tons cruiser (still a bit heavy, yet much better), but it is too heavy (and underarmed/unprotected) as an 8,500,000 tons military craft.

sagajr wrote:

KLM wrote:[

Partly right.

The Aranea is the right size, but the fighter/small craft compliment is strange... If I remember correctly, there are no troops, nor tanks for the shuttles.

We do not know the Stonewall's size (tonnage, to be proper).

As for the Explorer... She has a few million tons, so she is more like "half a Protetector".

The Aranae is a strange ship indeed. It carries 750 people without purpose or dedicated roles (general enlisted). Maybe it use its shuttles for carry the captured ship's cargo onboard?
Also its crew is too large for the carried equipment and forces.

The Stonewall's stats can be found in the Rifter 66 (in the pirate article). Sadly I don't own that Rifter.

The Explorer is also a strange ship. Too heavy for its size. I think its author is miscalculated its mass. It will be good as a 500,000 tons cruiser (still a bit heavy, yet much better), but it is too heavy (and underarmed/unprotected) as an 8,500,000 tons military craft.

Maybe a troop transport ship. Shuttles could be to shuttle troops to and from planets. The would need a way to transfer troops to and from outpost, most of the combat resources could be at the base. Or it could be a infantry shuttle.

Blue_Lion wrote:I do not think a long range patrol ship would be good for moving troops and cargo as most of its cargo space would be for consumables and repairs.

Patrol ships happen to patrol around outposts, colonies and so on. This means that they might be the only means of resupply, releive personell, etc.

KLM wrote:

Blue_Lion wrote:I do not think a long range patrol ship would be good for moving troops and cargo as most of its cargo space would be for consumables and repairs.

Patrol ships happen to patrol around outposts, colonies and so on. This means that they might be the only means of resupply, releive personell, etc.

Only in emergencies, typically, or when budgets are really really threadbare.
If specialized/dedicated transport vessels are not available(or politically/economically desirable), then the government running the outpost may commission (vetted) commercial craft to do the transporting. Often the heavy gear and the troops will travel in separate vessels if the destination has secured facilities already ready and the troops aren't expected to combat-drop at trip's end.

taalismn wrote:

KLM wrote:

Blue_Lion wrote:I do not think a long range patrol ship would be good for moving troops and cargo as most of its cargo space would be for consumables and repairs.

Patrol ships happen to patrol around outposts, colonies and so on. This means that they might be the only means of resupply, releive personell, etc.

Only in emergencies, typically, or when budgets are really really threadbare.
If specialized/dedicated transport vessels are not available(or politically/economically desirable), then the government running the outpost may commission (vetted) commercial craft to do the transporting. Often the heavy gear and the troops will travel in separate vessels if the destination has secured facilities already ready and the troops aren't expected to combat-drop at trip's end.

Both situations are equally valid. Since they both require default presumptions about the set up of the space nation in question that are pretty much utterly up to the GM to make up anyway.
The Navy may be the main means of resupply and relief personal rotation for outposts for all sorts of reasons. (Budget is just one of them. Security may be another. Or perhaps the nation has legal issues against the use of mercenaries of any stripe, including armed merchantmen by the government. Maybe the relief troops rotations require a certain number days ship board for customary reasons, or...)
The Navy may also be expected to only transport men and material into active shooting zones, and anything less should be handled by a vetted contractor. Again this could be for any number of reasons. Maybe the PMC industry has a strong lobby with the government; maybe the government has some tight treaties with other nations on the number of hulls it can man, which would mean they want every ship a war ship; maybe the nation would rather move things by civilian ship for diplomatic reasons; Or.......
When world building for a game, don't ever be afraid to start with the ideas you want (The colonies are supplied by a network of patrol ships) and then work backwards to build/tweek the universe to fit this (because there is a treaty limiting the number of warships over a certain tonnage (so patrol class) but there is equally a strong backlash against mercenaries (so to make sure the ships are properly protected from the raiders you just invented, they need to have military grade defenses)

eliakon wrote:

taalismn wrote:

KLM wrote:

Blue_Lion wrote:I do not think a long range patrol ship would be good for moving troops and cargo as most of its cargo space would be for consumables and repairs.

Patrol ships happen to patrol around outposts, colonies and so on. This means that they might be the only means of resupply, releive personell, etc.

Only in emergencies, typically, or when budgets are really really threadbare.
If specialized/dedicated transport vessels are not available(or politically/economically desirable), then the government running the outpost may commission (vetted) commercial craft to do the transporting. Often the heavy gear and the troops will travel in separate vessels if the destination has secured facilities already ready and the troops aren't expected to combat-drop at trip's end.

Both situations are equally valid. Since they both require default presumptions about the set up of the space nation in question that are pretty much utterly up to the GM to make up anyway.
The Navy may be the main means of resupply and relief personal rotation for outposts for all sorts of reasons. (Budget is just one of them. Security may be another. Or perhaps the nation has legal issues against the use of mercenaries of any stripe, including armed merchantmen by the government. Maybe the relief troops rotations require a certain number days ship board for customary reasons, or...)
The Navy may also be expected to only transport men and material into active shooting zones, and anything less should be handled by a vetted contractor. Again this could be for any number of reasons. Maybe the PMC industry has a strong lobby with the government; maybe the government has some tight treaties with other nations on the number of hulls it can man, which would mean they want every ship a war ship; maybe the nation would rather move things by civilian ship for diplomatic reasons; Or.......
When world building for a game, don't ever be afraid to start with the ideas you want (The colonies are supplied by a network of patrol ships) and then work backwards to build/tweek the universe to fit this (because there is a treaty limiting the number of warships over a certain tonnage (so patrol class) but there is equally a strong backlash against mercenaries (so to make sure the ships are properly protected from the raiders you just invented, they need to have military grade defenses)

I would see it more likely the military has its own dedicated supply ships than use patrol ships for routine supply missions. The ship is likely to need much of its cargo for its own needs of consumables and materials to make repairs should it find itself taking damage in remote sectors. (However they might be used to do covert drops off Intelligence assets under the cover of routine patrols.)

Blue_Lion wrote:

eliakon wrote:

taalismn wrote:

KLM wrote:

Blue_Lion wrote:I do not think a long range patrol ship would be good for moving troops and cargo as most of its cargo space would be for consumables and repairs.

Patrol ships happen to patrol around outposts, colonies and so on. This means that they might be the only means of resupply, releive personell, etc.

Only in emergencies, typically, or when budgets are really really threadbare.
If specialized/dedicated transport vessels are not available(or politically/economically desirable), then the government running the outpost may commission (vetted) commercial craft to do the transporting. Often the heavy gear and the troops will travel in separate vessels if the destination has secured facilities already ready and the troops aren't expected to combat-drop at trip's end.

Both situations are equally valid. Since they both require default presumptions about the set up of the space nation in question that are pretty much utterly up to the GM to make up anyway.
The Navy may be the main means of resupply and relief personal rotation for outposts for all sorts of reasons. (Budget is just one of them. Security may be another. Or perhaps the nation has legal issues against the use of mercenaries of any stripe, including armed merchantmen by the government. Maybe the relief troops rotations require a certain number days ship board for customary reasons, or...)
The Navy may also be expected to only transport men and material into active shooting zones, and anything less should be handled by a vetted contractor. Again this could be for any number of reasons. Maybe the PMC industry has a strong lobby with the government; maybe the government has some tight treaties with other nations on the number of hulls it can man, which would mean they want every ship a war ship; maybe the nation would rather move things by civilian ship for diplomatic reasons; Or.......
When world building for a game, don't ever be afraid to start with the ideas you want (The colonies are supplied by a network of patrol ships) and then work backwards to build/tweek the universe to fit this (because there is a treaty limiting the number of warships over a certain tonnage (so patrol class) but there is equally a strong backlash against mercenaries (so to make sure the ships are properly protected from the raiders you just invented, they need to have military grade defenses)

I would see it more likely the military has its own dedicated supply ships than use patrol ships for routine supply missions. The ship is likely to need much of its cargo for its own needs of consumables and materials to make repairs should it find itself taking damage in remote sectors. (However they might be used to do covert drops off Intelligence assets under the cover of routine patrols.)

Or maybe use civilian supply ships for routine work while not in emergency situations? It's a classic way to get around intervention in conflicts while not fully entering a war...

Depending on your tech-base...using your patrol ships as tugs or wear your cargo as external canisters where they provide extra physical shielding...NOT recommended for troop carrying, though, unless you take 'ablative meat shields' seriously as a concept.