Legal Vampire/Soul Harvester/Necromancer With THOUSANDS o HP

[Mallak's Place]

@Mallak
Harvester's description - "The foul mage then adds the PPE of the victim to his own PPE base."
Return from Grave's description - "Hit Points equal to Necromancer's base PPE at the time of his death."

This implies that the PPE base includes the additional PPE doesn't it? Because surely the Necromancer's base PPE has expanded at the time of his death? Of course you can play a game of words and argue that PPE base means only the PPE which you start out with.

If that is the case, go start your own thread about the real definition of a PPE base then. Thanks.

You'd rather crunch numbers then talk Verbage.. Fine

[Thinyser]

Sunlight = poof!

Actually since the character would have thousands of HP and only takes 1d6x10 HP every 15 seconds when exposed to direct sun (and then regenerates 2d6 HP 15 seconds later) a character like this should be able to survive in the sun for a long time.

Might I point out that the regeneration only takes place after they exit the sunlight, not while they are in it.

You might but i'd disagree since i just reread the sunlight vs vampire section in VK and it did not say anything at all about having to wait till it was not in sunlight to regenerate... tho attacks and movement are reduced to 1/3.

Thinyser ..

Vampires stuck out in the light of Day .. lose all powers .. to include regeneration. They are still able to move around with severe penalties ..

But the fact remains .. they can not use any Powers they have .. they can not change into mist .. they can not change into a wolf .. they can not change into a bat .. they can not use thier psionic powers .. they can not regenerate ..

In Sunlight .. Vampires are powerless .. 100% completely unable to use any of thier powers .. as it is written in Vampire Kingdoms ..

Actually it says Specifically "They can not use their powers..."
Do you "use" the ability to heal?
No, it just happens.

IMO There is no decision to heal and no action taken so they are not "using" a power.

I can see the other side of the coin but I think any ability that doesn't require the character to take any conscious action (and would automically happen even when unconscious) will continue to work because no "use" of a power is required.

Things like psychic Bio-Regeneration, metomorophosis to mist/bat/wolf, super hypnonsis etc. that require a decision to use, and at least an action, would be effected.

[Lenwen]

Actually it says Specifically "They can not use their powers..."
Do you "use" the ability to heal?
No, it just happens.

IMO There is no decision to heal and no action taken so they are not "using" a power.

Thats ok and fine and dandy ..

But your "Decision" is wrong canonly speaking ..

Otherwise please explain to me how the regeneration does not work when the Vampire is in the light of day ?

Its a Power ... Its negated in the light of day .. can not be used .. period. according to ..

While exposed to the power of the light of day the creatures are powerless.

Regeneration is in fact a Vampire power .. like it or not .. chosen to be used or in use .. not withstanding ..

Vampires in the light of day = Powerless .. hence no regeneration and can in fact not regen "Choosing" to or not to .. has no bereing on the actual power in an of itself ..

Decision or not ..

[Lenwen]

What happens if a non-psychic Mortal SDC Necromancer turns into a Soul Harvester, leeches off thousands of PPE from all the dragons and gods he killed and used the Level 14 Necro-Spell Return from Grave?

A legal Master Vampire with thousands of hit points.
Rule 1- WB12 Psycape Pg 19 - Harvesting of Souls - "This is the power of the Harvester to literally rip the soul of his victim and binds it to himself. The foul death mage then gains the PPE of his victim which is added to his own PPE base."
Rule 2 - WB18 Mystic Russia - Level 14 Return from Grave spell - "Hit points are equal to twice the Necromancer's base PPE at the time of his death."

Perhaps this is how "Intelligences" are created ?

This has given me a new idea for such an adventure ..



Thanks man.

[Thinyser]

Actually it says Specifically "They can not use their powers..."
Do you "use" the ability to heal?
No, it just happens.

IMO There is no decision to heal and no action taken so they are not "using" a power.

Thats ok and fine and dandy ..

But your "Decision" is wrong canonly speaking ..

Otherwise please explain to me how the regeneration does not work when the Vampire is in the light of day ?

Its a Power ... Its negated in the light of day .. can not be used .. period. according to ..

While exposed to the power of the light of day the creatures are powerless.

Regeneration is in fact a Vampire power .. like it or not .. chosen to be used or in use .. not withstanding ..

Vampires in the light of day = Powerless .. hence no regeneration and can in fact not regen "Choosing" to or not to .. has no bereing on the actual power in an of itself ..

Decision or not ..

IMO when the book has a simple word like powerless with a simple meaning like to be devoid of power, or as Merriam Webster would say

Main Entry: pow·er·less
Pronunciation: \-ləs\
Function: adjective
Date: 15th century
1 : devoid of strength or resources <powerless victims>
2 : lacking the authority or capacity to act <was powerless to help>

and then qualifies or further explains it with a more descriptive statement like

They cannot use their powers and can barrely move (reduce the number of melee attacks/actions and speed to one third)

describing what the previously very vague (game wise at least) use of the term powerless means game wise tells me that they are not really "powerless" at all and rather only suffer the losses stated in the actual descriptive text.

That states they cannot use powers, are slower runners, and have fewer (but no less powerfull or potent) attacks/actions...

There are no other bonus reductions (ie no negitives to strike parry or dodge or skills other than those that are applied simply for them being awake in the daytime hours)... Which according to that marvolous p.28 is only 1/2 of their normal bonuses.

Lets see here, that means by the canon, they are at
1/3 speed and have 1/3 attacks and 1/2 of there normal stike parry and dodge bonuses, perform skills at 1/2 normal % chance (no mention of loss in quality of outcome) and still have their SN PS (no where does it say they lose it though you might play they do i would not)...

seems to me they are not very "powerless" at all so I think that the "decision" to say that they lose the ability to use powers is what "powerless" in your book quote actually means, NOT that they are truly devoid of all power.

[Lenwen]

Actually it says Specifically "They can not use their powers..."
Do you "use" the ability to heal?
No, it just happens.

IMO There is no decision to heal and no action taken so they are not "using" a power.

Thats ok and fine and dandy ..

But your "Decision" is wrong canonly speaking ..

Otherwise please explain to me how the regeneration does not work when the Vampire is in the light of day ?

Its a Power ... Its negated in the light of day .. can not be used .. period. according to ..

While exposed to the power of the light of day the creatures are powerless.

Regeneration is in fact a Vampire power .. like it or not .. chosen to be used or in use .. not withstanding ..

Vampires in the light of day = Powerless .. hence no regeneration and can in fact not regen "Choosing" to or not to .. has no bereing on the actual power in an of itself ..

Decision or not ..

IMO when the book has a simple word like powerless with a simple meaning like to be devoid of power, or as Merriam Webster would say

Main Entry: pow·er·less
Pronunciation: \-ləs\
Function: adjective
Date: 15th century
1 : devoid of strength or resources <powerless victims>
2 : lacking the authority or capacity to act <was powerless to help>

and then qualifies or further explains it with a more descriptive statement like

They cannot use their powers and can barrely move (reduce the number of melee attacks/actions and speed to one third)

describing what the previously very vague (game wise at least) use of the term powerless means game wise tells me that they are not really "powerless" at all and rather only suffer the losses stated in the actual descriptive text.

That states they cannot use powers, are slower runners, and have fewer (but no less powerfull or potent) attacks/actions...

There are no other bonus reductions (ie no negitives to strike parry or dodge or skills other than those that are applied simply for them being awake in the daytime hours)... Which according to that marvolous p.28 is only 1/2 of their normal bonuses.

Lets see here, that means by the canon, they are at
1/3 speed and have 1/3 attacks and 1/2 of there normal stike parry and dodge bonuses, perform skills at 1/2 normal % chance (no mention of loss in quality of outcome) and still have their SN PS (no where does it say they lose it though you might play they do i would not)...

seems to me they are not very "powerless" at all so I think that the "decision" to say that they lose the ability to use powers is what "powerless" in your book quote actually means, NOT that they are truly devoid of all power.

And yet .. for all that ..

Vampires regeneration is negated .. in Sunlight ..

Tricky how that works aint it ..

[Thinyser]

And yet .. for all that ..

Vampires regeneration is negated .. in Sunlight ..

Tricky how that works aint it ..

Address a point or dont post.
All you seem to be doing here is saying "wrong!" in a snarky way and repeating that "regeneration is negated" without so much as a hint as to how you seem to get an obviously clarified statment of "powerless" to mean that they are in in truth totally devoid of all powers and therefore cannot heal at their normal rate simply because they are in the sun.

It may not be as Kev intended but at least I've shown you my reasoning behind my interpretation.

You can call their super regeneration a power sure I'll agree to that that no problem... but its not a power that gets "used" so by the actual descriptive sentance (which IMO is the total scope of the effects) that tells us what the actual in game consequences of being in direct sunlight are it should not be effected.

You can say it is but it doesn't say that in the book. It does say they cannot use their powers.

Where do you stop pulling powers?
When exposed to sun are they no longer immune to fire? normal weapons? Hey their immunity to them is not a used power but it is a power and its always on so like their regeneration this would be negated right?

Admittedly if a vamp is in the sun the least of his worries is probably the dude with a regular lead loaded .45 or flaming torch. However, that is not the issue, the issue is this, there are powers that can be used (ie activated) and ones that are just "on" all the time, so when the book says "cannot use powers" I take that as they cannot activate any power that requires activation but those that are not activated are still in effect.

Play it how you see fit, and have a blast doing it... but don't simply address the explination of my interpretation with some snarky 3 line post that does not address anything I said and simply spouts "regeneration is negated" without so much as bit of reasoning that shows us (if there is anybody else besides me following this) how you came to such a conclusion.

[Lenwen]

And yet .. for all that ..

Vampires regeneration is negated .. in Sunlight ..

Tricky how that works aint it ..

Address a point or dont post.

I have addressed it.

Just because you refuse to believe what I say.. does not make it any less truthfull ..

Vampires can not regenerate if they are outside in the daytime. Hence they get killed by daylight sunlight if trapped outdoors .. in minutes ..

Fight it all you want .. but that is in fact 100% canon .. like it or not ..

And as such .. it is not up for debat by you .. unless you are KS himself an rewrite the Vampire class .. (which I doubt)

You can house rule it differently .. but then your not going with canon your going against it.

Either case .. Canonly speaking Vampires do not regenerate if they are trapped out in the light of the daytime.

Peace .

[Thinyser]

And yet .. for all that ..

Vampires regeneration is negated .. in Sunlight ..

Tricky how that works aint it ..

Address a point or dont post.

I have addressed it.

No you haven't, because you have not once shown where it says specifically they cannot regenerate. All you have said is that they are powerless. Which I've quite clearly illustrated is not to mean litterally "powerless".

Just because you refuse to believe what I say.. does not make it any less truthfull ..

And your belief doesnt make it more truthfull

Vampires can not regenerate if they are outside in the daytime.

where does it say this in the book? and dont bother with the "powerless" bit...

Hence they get killed by daylight sunlight if trapped outdoors .. in minutes ..

that will still happen even when the regenerate... it simply prolongs the process (and only a little at that)

Fight it all you want .. but that is in fact 100% canon .. like it or not ..

again (without the powerless bit), where in the book does it state that they lose the ability to regenerate while in the sun?

And as such .. it is not up for debat by you .. unless you are KS himself an rewrite the Vampire class .. (which I doubt)

I can debate it all i want though with some people like yourself it seems a pointless debate since you fail to address anything I've said and STILL keep spouting "sunlight negates regeneration" without anything other than an (obviously not ment to be taken litteraly) statment of powerlessness.

You can house rule it differently .. but then your not going with canon your going against it.

in your interpretation (that you keep failing to even attempt to rationalize beyond the "powerless" statement) Maybe.

Either case .. Canonly speaking Vampires do not regenerate if they are trapped out in the light of the daytime.

Either case? What "Two cases" are we talking about??? now you are not making any sense whatsoever..

Until you can hold a rational debate all I have left to say is Whatever, dude. Whatever...I've said my piece and though it may be 180 degrees from what Kev thinks is crystal clear by his canon text, at least I have explaind it in rational terms and not simply (to paraphrase) "they are "powerless" end of story."

Don't even bother to reply to anymore if all you're going to say boils down to "I'm right you're wrong and its not up for debate".

[jaymz]

Aside from all the Vmapire powerless arguing above how about we get back on topic on the thread hmm?

About teh Soul Harvester here....I'd like to see it done up in detail as to how exactley it gets done and not just a few lines of do this this and this and tada! 180 000 hp.

That way it can be properly analyzed, scrutinized and critisized accordingly...

[Anthar]

Just a little point about the vampire getting double his base PPE as hit points at the time of death. When a Harvester dies all the souls they possess are released, so they don't have that extra PPE to double.