Triax 2? Any love for the Gargoyle Empire?

[Omega6]

The gargoyles got several new pieces of equipment. There are three new giant rifles, four new giant melee weapons and two giant shields. The gargoyles are going to take those new Triax weapons off of defeated soldiers without hesitation.

[runebeo]

The gargoyles got several new pieces of equipment. There are three new giant rifles, four new giant melee weapons and two giant shields. The gargoyles are going to take those new Triax weapons off of defeated soldiers without hesitation.

I agree with you, adding theses weapon to the gargoyle arsenal will go along way. I say load the gargoyles up with corrupt Millennium Tree weapons, staffs and wands. Since there from Hades they should have access to the weapons & netherbeasts in the Hades book. Our GM often have the gargoyles tie multiple human captives to their chest and go on raiding attacks deeper in boarder. Can't tell me firing throw your own people won't add stress to a bad situation.

The main problem with this NGR vs Gargoyle Nation is that every thing the NGR uses cost money, only using energy weapon have no cost minus upkeep and replacing the nuclear power supply. While the gargoyles can make fortune by selling the soils of war, won't see the NGR making any money with oversized gargoyle equipment and their dirty old caves.

[Hystrix]

The gargoyles got several new pieces of equipment. There are three new giant rifles, four new giant melee weapons and two giant shields. The gargoyles are going to take those new Triax weapons off of defeated soldiers without hesitation.

Neat. How dose your average Gargoyal tribe maintain these weapons? How do they recarge e-clips. Ever think that in a fight some weapons might sustain damage the the gargoyals can't repair?

And before you say, "But the gargoyals have energy weapons of thier own!" True, but this is a tiny percentage, and very, very few know how to use such weapons. Also, the average gargoyal/gurgoyal IQ is 6 or 7. So you are really gonna give someone with the human equivilant of a mental disabilty the most high tech weapons out there? You all are give gargoyals WAYYY to much credit.

[Anthar]

WP skill gives the basic ability to maintain weapons and as for more complex weapons they have other creatures that are more mechanically inclined to maintain the weapons.
They won't be getting any help from Hades as they are independent and Hades would like nothing better than to see the Gargoyles fall.
I don't know if the Gargoyles can construct their own power armor and robots since the books indicate that they come from an outside force but I'm betting that they have in-house capabilities to build basic armor and weapons.

[dark brandon]

The gargoyles got several new pieces of equipment. There are three new giant rifles, four new giant melee weapons and two giant shields. The gargoyles are going to take those new Triax weapons off of defeated soldiers without hesitation.

Neat. How dose your average Gargoyal tribe maintain these weapons? How do they recarge e-clips. Ever think that in a fight some weapons might sustain damage the the gargoyals can't repair?

And before you say, "But the gargoyals have energy weapons of thier own!" True, but this is a tiny percentage, and very, very few know how to use such weapons. Also, the average gargoyal/gurgoyal IQ is 6 or 7. So you are really gonna give someone with the human equivilant of a mental disabilty the most high tech weapons out there? You all are give gargoyals WAYYY to much credit.

No, but they do have "allies" that do use and make equipment. Splynn (for example) might not be supplying them with much in the way of armor and weapons anymore, but gargs can still take captives as slaves and trade them, even for basic things like Eclips if need be. They can probably also do this trade with blood druids (if human, they may have access to eclip rechargers or know someone who can repair a weapon), or any other of the more evil things that would want slave trade. The gargs might not have any official allies, but that doesn't mean they are completely solitary either, nor that they haven't taken some items themselves and have been trained on how to use or maintain them. The average gargoyle won't know how to maintain a weapon, but out of millions of gargs you're probably going to have some that have an IQ of 12+ and with things they've captured from NGR along with slaves been taught how to keep and maintain an eclip charger. Heck, they could have a couple of captive NGR slaves for this very reason.

There are lots of "what ifs", but the point is that it's not completely out of the realm of the imagination to think that Gargs have a way to maintain and recharge captured weapons.

[Hystrix]

The gargoyles got several new pieces of equipment. There are three new giant rifles, four new giant melee weapons and two giant shields. The gargoyles are going to take those new Triax weapons off of defeated soldiers without hesitation.

Neat. How dose your average Gargoyal tribe maintain these weapons? How do they recarge e-clips. Ever think that in a fight some weapons might sustain damage the the gargoyals can't repair?

And before you say, "But the gargoyals have energy weapons of thier own!" True, but this is a tiny percentage, and very, very few know how to use such weapons. Also, the average gargoyal/gurgoyal IQ is 6 or 7. So you are really gonna give someone with the human equivilant of a mental disabilty the most high tech weapons out there? You all are give gargoyals WAYYY to much credit.

No, but they do have "allies" that do use and make equipment. Splynn (for example) might not be supplying them with much in the way of armor and weapons anymore, but gargs can still take captives as slaves and trade them, even for basic things like Eclips if need be. They can probably also do this trade with blood druids (if human, they may have access to eclip rechargers or know someone who can repair a weapon), or any other of the more evil things that would want slave trade. The gargs might not have any official allies, but that doesn't mean they are completely solitary either, nor that they haven't taken some items themselves and have been trained on how to use or maintain them. The average gargoyle won't know how to maintain a weapon, but out of millions of gargs you're probably going to have some that have an IQ of 12+ and with things they've captured from NGR along with slaves been taught how to keep and maintain an eclip charger. Heck, they could have a couple of captive NGR slaves for this very reason.

There are lots of "what ifs", but the point is that it's not completely out of the realm of the imagination to think that Gargs have a way to maintain and recharge captured weapons.

Not enough to outfit the entire army with energy weapons. Most are still going to be using melee weapons. Also most will likely have an IQ of 6-8 rather than 12+ 9there is a reason they call it "average"), and for every 12 there is a garg out there with a 2 or 3 IQ who can barely put a sentence together. There just arn't that many that are that (IQ of 12) smart. As for the allies you speak of, who are they? The Brodkil were the only ally I know of (ok the pheonix empire, but I wasn't aware they sent troops up there), and they arn't really allys anymore...

I get what you are saying, but I think everyone is trying to establish the exception as the norm, and that's kinda rediculous. It's like saying most NGR soldiers are 10th level, because it's possible for an NGR soldier to have be 10th level...

[dark brandon]

Not enough to outfit the entire army with energy weapons. Most are still going to be using melee weapons. Also most will likely have an IQ of 6-8 rather than 12+ 9there is a reason they call it "average"), and for every 12 there is a garg out there with a 2 or 3 IQ who can barely put a sentence together. There just arn't that many that are that (IQ of 12) smart. As for the allies you speak of, who are they? The Brodkil were the only ally I know of (ok the pheonix empire, but I wasn't aware they sent troops up there), and they arn't really allys anymore...

I get what you are saying, but I think everyone is trying to establish the exception as the norm, and that's kinda rediculous. It's like saying most NGR soldiers are 10th level, because it's possible for an NGR soldier to have be 10th level...

Allow me to clarify. I don't think the average garg is going to have access to weapons. Not even melee weapons, except for like a tree trunk. I'm saying that if they do have them, it's not unheard of to find a way to keep them with ammo or repaired it really doesn't take all that much.

As for allies, though the gargs have no formal alliance with any nation, I don't think it's out of the realms of possibility that they have some way to recharge and repair their weapons. For example, any evil mage with sub-partical acceleration could have a deal with a group of gargs who may have a few tech weapons that in exchange for recharging them, they give him humans/dbees for slaves/sacrifice. Unlike a real military, I think each weapon is owned by the gargs who holds it, and they are responcible for recharging it. The book doesn't say "yeah, they have 10 evil mages as allies", but that's not to say they are an island unto themselves.

I will say most military items are built to have the lowest common denominator factor, meaning I think it's reasonable that most energy weapons can be used by the average (6-8 IQ) gargs. Repairing is another matter, though, honestly there is no IQ prerequisite for having WP Energy rifle/pistol, so it's not out there that they could have it if they wanted it. I've known mentally handycapped people, and while they don't have the "expansive" knowledge the average person has, they can learn something especially if it interests them. They don't really need to know how the laser works, but since it involves killing they certainly have the capacity to learn it and to know how to make it tick, not really why it ticks the way it does.

[Omega6]

Page 202 of Triax 1 says that the gargoyles can not build their own modern weapons but they know how to maintain them.

They do make their own melee weapons as stated about metalsmiths on page 196, so they have better options than tree trunks.

A gargolye mage (I.Q. 2D6+6) is also described as a scholar and has access to any skill at 10% which could include Weapons Engineer or Field Armorer.

Page 196 of Triax 1 says "The gargoyles and their minions have actively hired high-tech mercenaries, designers builders and mechanics."

If you do not think a gargoyle/gurgoyle with a low I.Q. should have a full modern W.P., PFRPG was a W.P. that could fill the role for a more ignorant firearm user. W.P. Modern Weapons allows the use of a gun by thinking of it as a magic weapon. When it is out of ammo it is discarded.

As I said earlier the gargolyes will be taking the new giant weapons. After thinking about it, the gurgoyles, being smaller, will have a lot more new weapons since they can handle human sized weapons with a little modification. The gurgolye of page 204 of Triax 1 has a TX-16 Pump Rifle that has the hand-guard/folding stock removed making it a pistol.

The weapons are probably not going to be issued to the gargoyles/gurgoyles, unless they find a large weapon cache. They are going to trophies taken from fallen foes.

The TX-H3 Blast Hammer recharges itself as long as it is moving. A giant shield doesn't require a high I.Q. to hide behind it. For that matter, the electro-mace or morning star doesn't take intelligence to use it to beat something with, charged or not.

As for real life low I.Q., I would bet if you gave a water pistol to someone with low intelligence, you would get wet. If he/she watches T.V. than the concept of a gun is known. Back to gurgoyles, they see others using firearms, so the concept of a gun is known. Monkey see, monkey do.

My last note is that the I.Q. of a gargoyle is 2D6+2, not 2D6 (that is a gurgoyle). Also, when rolling up a character with 2D6 for an attribute, you get a bonus die when the result is "12", so an average gargolye can have an I.Q. up to 20 and a gurgoyle can have an I.Q. of 18. Those of you stating averages should take that into account.

[Hystrix]

Not enough to outfit the entire army with energy weapons. Most are still going to be using melee weapons. Also most will likely have an IQ of 6-8 rather than 12+ 9there is a reason they call it "average"), and for every 12 there is a garg out there with a 2 or 3 IQ who can barely put a sentence together. There just arn't that many that are that (IQ of 12) smart. As for the allies you speak of, who are they? The Brodkil were the only ally I know of (ok the pheonix empire, but I wasn't aware they sent troops up there), and they arn't really allys anymore...

I get what you are saying, but I think everyone is trying to establish the exception as the norm, and that's kinda rediculous. It's like saying most NGR soldiers are 10th level, because it's possible for an NGR soldier to have be 10th level...

Allow me to clarify. I don't think the average garg is going to have access to weapons. Not even melee weapons, except for like a tree trunk. I'm saying that if they do have them, it's not unheard of to find a way to keep them with ammo or repaired it really doesn't take all that much.

As for allies, though the gargs have no formal alliance with any nation, I don't think it's out of the realms of possibility that they have some way to recharge and repair their weapons. For example, any evil mage with sub-partical acceleration could have a deal with a group of gargs who may have a few tech weapons that in exchange for recharging them, they give him humans/dbees for slaves/sacrifice. Unlike a real military, I think each weapon is owned by the gargs who holds it, and they are responcible for recharging it. The book doesn't say "yeah, they have 10 evil mages as allies", but that's not to say they are an island unto themselves.

I will say most military items are built to have the lowest common denominator factor, meaning I think it's reasonable that most energy weapons can be used by the average (6-8 IQ) gargs. Repairing is another matter, though, honestly there is no IQ prerequisite for having WP Energy rifle/pistol, so it's not out there that they could have it if they wanted it. I've known mentally handycapped people, and while they don't have the "expansive" knowledge the average person has, they can learn something especially if it interests them. They don't really need to know how the laser works, but since it involves killing they certainly have the capacity to learn it and to know how to make it tick, not really why it ticks the way it does.

The problem is that Emporer Z only has about 50,000 gargs armed with modern weapons. That's a very small percentage in and of itself. Even if you saiod that spread out all over the Gargoyal Empire there are another 50,000 with modern weapons that is still a very small percentage. I don't think Triax 2 gives a great total population estimate for the gargs. I know Emporer Z has about 1 million, so lets say the total population of all Gargoyals in Europe is 5 mil. That means that only 2% use modern weapons.

As for the Sub Partical Acceleration thing. Remember 7th level spells are uncommon. A mage with Sub Partical Acceleration is a little bit more uncommon. A group of mages willing to help the gargs is yet even more uncommon. However, I'll humor you. Even with 10 mages with the spell, it cost 20 PPE to recharge 6 shots. So a 30 shot e-clip would require 100 PPE. 10 Mages with, say, 200 PPE each would be able to recharge 20 eclips at a time (and then rest for HOURS before they can do more). That's not much, and it's WAY too small scale to make a difference in the war. And this is what I'm talking about. The gargs don't have the infrestructure to acheive any of this. There is a reason Lord Z's modernized army is as small as it is.

I agree that on a small scale anything is possible, but the gargs as a whole can't compete with the NGR, and it has shown. The Brodkil might be a different story, but they are squabiling with the NGR. Face it, even the Xiticx outclass (and out number) the gargoyals...

[Hystrix]

Page 202 of Triax 1 says that the gargoyles can not build their own modern weapons but they know how to maintain them.

Maintain them how? Keep them from not breaking down? Ok, but they still wouldn't be able to recharge there stuff.

They do make their own melee weapons as stated about metalsmiths on page 196, so they have better options than tree trunks.

OK, I'll give you that.

A gargolye mage (I.Q. 2D6+6) is also described as a scholar and has access to any skill at 10% which could include Weapons Engineer or Field Armorer.

<sigh> Ok there is about 1 Gargoyal Mage for every 20,000 or so Gargoyals (Triax 1 page 200). That would give them a few hundred Gargoyal Mages at the most. Even if most of them had the skill, it wouldn't be enough to help. Hey, on a small level, that's cool, but not for an empire of millions.

EDIT- Scratch that. I just read that those are secondary skills the Gargoyal Mages get. Weapons Engennier can't be taken as a secondary skill.

Page 196 of Triax 1 says "The gargoyles and their minions have actively hired high-tech mercenaries, designers builders and mechanics."

Might be the best argument so far. However, the fact the Lord Z has only been able to maintain an army of 50,000 modern weapons fighters tells me how limited in number those mercenaries are.

If you do not think a gargoyle/gurgoyle with a low I.Q. should have a full modern W.P., PFRPG was a W.P. that could fill the role for a more ignorant firearm user. W.P. Modern Weapons allows the use of a gun by thinking of it as a magic weapon. When it is out of ammo it is discarded.

Agreed. However maintain an army of milllion using the discard doctrine (I love that term), would still make for a very limited army. Again on a small scale, no big deal.

There is a reason that modern armies reuse and recharge e-clips.

As I said earlier the gargolyes will be taking the new giant weapons. After thinking about it, the gurgoyles, being smaller, will have a lot more new weapons since they can handle human sized weapons with a little modification. The gurgolye of page 204 of Triax 1 has a TX-16 Pump Rifle that has the hand-guard/folding stock removed making it a pistol.

Still dosn't solve the problem of ammo, and required WPs...

The weapons are probably not going to be issued to the gargoyles/gurgoyles, unless they find a large weapon cache. They are going to trophies taken from fallen foes.

Again, why I'm saying the gargoyal are ill-equipped.

The TX-H3 Blast Hammer recharges itself as long as it is moving. A giant shield doesn't require a high I.Q. to hide behind it. For that matter, the electro-mace or morning star doesn't take intelligence to use it to beat something with, charged or not.

Decent weapon, poor range. I contend the gargs are awesome at melee combat. It's the long range stuff that kicking thier butts...

As for real life low I.Q., I would bet if you gave a water pistol to someone with low intelligence, you would get wet. If he/she watches T.V. than the concept of a gun is known. Back to gurgoyles, they see others using firearms, so the concept of a gun is known. Monkey see, monkey do.

The same logic dosn't really apply to firearms. If a weapons gets jammed or just malfuctions to they know how to do a function check?

My last note is that the I.Q. of a gargoyle is 2D6+2, not 2D6 (that is a gurgoyle). Also, when rolling up a character with 2D6 for an attribute, you get a bonus die when the result is "12", so an average gargolye can have an I.Q. up to 20 and a gurgoyle can have an I.Q. of 18. Those of you stating averages should take that into account.

I'm going to disagree that gargs get higher rolls for IQ. I can't remember the source, but I belive it's already be covered that only humans and d-bees with 3D6 attributes get the bonus rolls. I can't vouch for the 2D6+2 thing because it depends on which book you got that out of. I'll give that one to you. Even with that there average IQ is far below human averages.

[dark brandon]

I'm honestly not sure what you're arguing about hystrix. That, on average, the weapons stolen can't be maintained and replenished?

[Hystrix]

I'm honestly not sure what you're arguing about hystrix. That, on average, the weapons stolen can't be maintained and replenished?

Not enough to equip hundreds of thousands to millions, no.

[The Galactus Kid]

I'm honestly not sure what you're arguing about hystrix. That, on average, the weapons stolen can't be maintained and replenished?

Not enough to equip hundreds of thousands to millions, no.

I agree.

[dark brandon]

I'm honestly not sure what you're arguing about hystrix. That, on average, the weapons stolen can't be maintained and replenished?

Not enough to equip hundreds of thousands to millions, no.

But the ones that are stolen, they could, Right? As far as I know, they don't have hundreds of thousands of items stolen.

[jreece06]

Well they certainly could stage a ambush. Lots of predators do that. The problem then becomes if the predator doesn't kill it's target with that ambush, he goes hungry (or in this case gets itself killed).

So they're capable of executing complex combat missions on one hand but on the other they're just mindless meat-eaters who have no capability of grasping any concept other than predation or doing anything more complicated than predation? That doesn't make any sense to me.

Well I certainly wouldn't equate a ambush as a complex battle mission.

Coordinating multiple simultaneous such attacks at the same time while jamming enemy communications to prevent back-up from arriving, then moving onto additional targets and attacking again simultaneously, with minimal casualties; that would be a complex battle mission. And again would need someone/thing other than a regular gargoyle so they don't fly off when they see something shiny.


And they are unbeatable only in the sense of superior numbers overpowering defenders quickly. Superior ranged weapons and tactics will carry the day.

I think an ambush is complex even for humans to plan and execute.

well, IMHO, I think you are wrong about that. we stage overly complex ambushes all the time, however, wolves, Jaguars, Panthers, most Constrictor snakes.... i could go on and on... all these animals can attack from ambush.

[Jefffar]

Out of Triax 2 I got an impression that the front lines were far more fluid than they seemed to be in Triax 1.

In Triax 1 I got the idea that there was human territory and there was gargoyle territory and there was a pretty specific border between the two. In Triax 2 we have Gargoyle raids interfering with road and rail traffic deep inside NGR territory, we have the gargoyles overrunning a major Triax production facility and we have small gargoyle strike teams able to hit well protected high value targets deep within NGR territory (trying not to give away too much there).

Also, we found out that without the extraordinary means the NGR is taking to commit genocide, the Gargoyles would make good all their losses of the last ten years before the end of the next decade.

So while the gargoyle empire got pounded pretty good, they actually seem more dangerous than they were before.

[Dustin Fireblade]

So four Gargoyles, sentient predators who have survived as a species in Hades for millenia, are going to attack a numerically superior and well armed force of enemies, with whom they are at least anecdotally if not directly experienced, by charging in and shouting "Gargoyle smash?" Somehow I think their plans would not be nearly so . . . well, honorable. I think they would be just a little bit sneakier. Maybe even report it to their alpha to arrange a bigger force for a direct attack, or maybe even do something, dare I say it, ambushy, like waiting silently and carrying off the Troopers one at a time, dropping them from high altitudes, thus removing the fire support from the Dyna-Bots, making them easier to pick at in a pack style smack and run wearing down.

Because...

gargoyles are animalistic creatures who are driven by instinct more than intellect

So yes, they can exhibit some trickery. Not really in depth trickery, but something very basic. As I said before it should be enough to make combat interesting, but the outcome shouldn't be in doubt, especially going up against a well trained military.

[Dustin Fireblade]

That's how I see it anyway. how you play gargoyles is up to you in your games, so hey, but based on stats, and on descriptions, the gargoyles in Palladium Books, are not as oafishly stupid as you seem to be saying they are. If nothing else, think how much more interesting running gargoyles as having a predatory mindset would make your game!

Obviously we have very different idea's on what makes combat interesting, and that's fine. What works for one doesn't mean it works for everyone.


(This whole discussion reminds me of the old story in Dragon Magazine about "Tucker's Kobolds" where the high level characters went down in the dungeon to face the demons rather than the kobolds.)

[dark brandon]

gargoyles are animalistic creatures who are driven by instinct more than intellect

So yes, they can exhibit some trickery. Not really in depth trickery, but something very basic. As I said before it should be enough to make combat interesting, but the outcome shouldn't be in doubt, especially going up against a well trained military.

Just to note, it says more on instinct...but not only on instinct.

[Hystrix]

I'm honestly not sure what you're arguing about hystrix. That, on average, the weapons stolen can't be maintained and replenished?

Not enough to equip hundreds of thousands to millions, no.

But the ones that are stolen, they could, Right? As far as I know, they don't have hundreds of thousands of items stolen.

Of course. But that isn't the point. The point is outfitting an army of millions is not possible for them. You can have exceptions to the rule. PC's could even encounter rather intelegent, well-organized gargs with a wide variety of tech and magic. However, this isn't common...

Look, part of the debate here has been that the gargs are awesome because of thier numbers, and that's kinda true... but outside of melee combat they arn't that great. The NGR excels in long range combat. They're currently winning... this shouldn't shock anyone.

And, I know, someone is gonna say "But there are other supernatural creatures and allies of the gargoyals!" Yes, there probably are...and they are hardly mentioned. The big powers in Eroupe: 1.) NGR, 2.) Gargoyals, and 3.) Brodkil. If two of the top three major players are sub-demons, the competion isn't all that great...

[Dustin Fireblade]

gargoyles are animalistic creatures who are driven by instinct more than intellect

So yes, they can exhibit some trickery. Not really in depth trickery, but something very basic. As I said before it should be enough to make combat interesting, but the outcome shouldn't be in doubt, especially going up against a well trained military.

Just to note, it says more on instinct...but not only on instinct.

Yes.

[RoadWarriorFWaNK]

Out of Triax 2 I got an impression that the front lines were far more fluid than they seemed to be in Triax 1.

In Triax 1 I got the idea that there was human territory and there was gargoyle territory and there was a pretty specific border between the two. In Triax 2 we have Gargoyle raids interfering with road and rail traffic deep inside NGR territory, we have the gargoyles overrunning a major Triax production facility and we have small gargoyle strike teams able to hit well protected high value targets deep within NGR territory (trying not to give away too much there).

check the map. none of the places attacked by Gargoyles are "deep" within NGR territory.

[Jefffar]

However the autobahn tables that have a 10% chance of running into Gargoyles every 20 miles don't indicate that this sort of penetration is limited to the border regions.

[RoadWarriorFWaNK]

However the autobahn tables that have a 10% chance of running into Gargoyles every 20 miles don't indicate that this sort of penetration is limited to the border regions.

that's true, but that's why they are "random" tables. it's always best to keep those silly Player Characters on their toes. The GM could come up with a myriad of reasons why there might be a few or a even a few dozen gargoyles deep inside NGR territory. They could have been summoned by an evil spellcaster, or just popped through a random rift. And sometimes monsters get lucky and just slip through the border when no one is watching.

[Hystrix]

However the autobahn tables that have a 10% chance of running into Gargoyles every 20 miles don't indicate that this sort of penetration is limited to the border regions.

that's true, but that's why they are "random" tables. it's always best to keep those silly Player Characters on their toes. The GM could come up with a myriad of reasons why there might be a few or a even a few dozen gargoyles deep inside NGR territory. They could have been summoned by an evil spellcaster, or just popped through a random rift. And sometimes monsters get lucky and just slip through the border when no one is watching.

Yep. Big difference between 1D4+1 Gargoyals being encountered and a few hundred being encounted...

[Jefffar]

Yes, but it does establish that the borders of the NGR are porous and establishes that the gargoyles capable of strikes within NGR territory.

[The Galactus Kid]

Yes, but it does establish that the borders of the NGR are porous and establishes that the gargoyles capable of strikes within NGR territory.

As evidenced by the fact that they assassinated the President.

[RoadWarriorFWaNK]

Yes, but it does establish that the borders of the NGR are porous and establishes that the gargoyles capable of strikes within NGR territory.

As evidenced by the fact that they assassinated the President.

im a firm believer that no border is entirely secure. Not the NGR, not the CS, not even IRL.

[The Galactus Kid]

Yes, but it does establish that the borders of the NGR are porous and establishes that the gargoyles capable of strikes within NGR territory.

As evidenced by the fact that they assassinated the President.

im a firm believer that no border is entirely secure. Not the NGR, not the CS, not even IRL.

Agreed

[dark brandon]

Yes, but it does establish that the borders of the NGR are porous and establishes that the gargoyles capable of strikes within NGR territory.

As evidenced by the fact that they assassinated the President.

im a firm believer that no border is entirely secure. Not the NGR, not the CS, not even IRL.

I would guess that the borders of Rifts Earth countries would be far less secure than our borders today(as we don't have any Invisible terrorists that can teleport).

or...do we?

[Natasha]

However the autobahn tables that have a 10% chance of running into Gargoyles every 20 miles don't indicate that this sort of penetration is limited to the border regions.

that's true, but that's why they are "random" tables. it's always best to keep those silly Player Characters on their toes. The GM could come up with a myriad of reasons why there might be a few or a even a few dozen gargoyles deep inside NGR territory. They could have been summoned by an evil spellcaster, or just popped through a random rift. And sometimes monsters get lucky and just slip through the border when no one is watching.

Yep. Big difference between 1D4+1 Gargoyals being encountered and a few hundred being encounted...

Which doesn't change the degree or success of penetration in to NGR territory. Long range operations are conducted by small units because large units tend to stand out.

[anarchclown]

Why be offended. It's a fictional universe 400 years into the future. Besides the germans are depicted as a lot nicer than most of the other nations on earth save for the republic of japan and lazlo maybe.

[Jorel]

Well Triax 2 arrived today here in Munich.
I am currently looking into it and I am trying to decide if I should be amused or offended.

I'm curious. Which is it?

[Jorel]

nice. Thanks.