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Jabborwacky wrote:Looked it over a little bit more. CS has 0% chance of victory here. Either they are defeated by the repo-bots or they commit suicide using their nuclear warheads to destroy the repo-bots out of their own xenophobia(blow up their own territory and assets, forever crippling their power base).

On the other hand, the secondary scenario would be quite the poetic end of the CS, killed by their own hatred and fear.

"This nuclear wasteland used to be a thriving agricultural and industrial power. It can be again, thanks to Naruni Enterprises' Planetary Renewal Program! We've putting the final touches on a massive new facility that will provide comfortable housing and productive jobs for the thousands of people displaced by this disaster!"(cue CGI simulation of a massive sprawling monolithic black structure...along its walls are written in High Naruni; NARUNI PRODUCTION PLANT #2349653245234695234523456423556 WORK SMARTER WORK HARDER)
"All brought to you courtesy of your helpful, friendly, community-minded Naruni Enterprises! The Company That Cares."

Pepsi Jedi wrote:I didn't think any of them got through. My point was that the CS did launch nukes that worked and didn't get shot down by the Killer Orbital Satalites. But I thought all got sucked through rifts and none actually landed and hit tolkeen? It's been a while since I read the first book in that series.

Correct. However the repo bots don't know that spell for a varaity of reasons.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Pepsi Jedi wrote:I didn't think any of them got through. My point was that the CS did launch nukes that worked and didn't get shot down by the Killer Orbital Satalites. But I thought all got sucked through rifts and none actually landed and hit tolkeen? It's been a while since I read the first book in that series.

Correct. However the repo bots don't know that spell for a varaity of reasons.

Right, but magic in palladium is largely line of sight, and if mages can intercept the missiles with magic. Robots using robotic reflexes and radar able to pick up such things dozens or 100s of miles away should (( in theory)) also be able to intercept the incoming missiles, via more conventional means?

Even if it's their jet fighters getting in the way and ramming the missiles? (( though I'd imagine the space fighters would lift off. Use their super speed. fly up there and shoot the missiles with either other missiles or lasers or plasma or rail guns))

Jabborwacky wrote:I think this is pretty self explanatory. Repo-bots get attacked. Repo-bots realize that ship contains company assets and recognizes where the attacks are coming from. Repo-bots mobilize. Repo-bots go straight for CS military assets. Repo-bots win because they are ludicrously more powerful than anything in the CS arsenal and there is 99,400 of them (they probably only need to use half that number).
Meanwhile, CS would be forced to go on the defensive and would be launching nukes left and right to kill the repo-bots.

Jabborwacky wrote:Looked it over a little bit more. CS has 0% chance of victory here. Either they are defeated by the repo-bots or they commit suicide using their nuclear warheads to destroy the repo-bots out of their own xenophobia(blow up their own territory and assets, forever crippling their power base).

On the other hand, the secondary scenario would be quite the poetic end of the CS, killed by their own hatred and fear.

Everything you have said is badly scewed...
FIRST The CS Beats the Heck out of (in size/numbers) the numbers the OP's listed number for Repo bots.

SECOND Repo bots are NOT all that. They are Just Normal borgs (as per their stats) but with twice the MDC (big whoop!) a decent partical beam in some cases and a Force Feild! The Force feild is the ONLY thing that the CS ain't got but... Who cares. The CS has Plenty of near (enough) equivalent types of tech and they got tons more of it.

THIRD No matter HOW PC kids are rased these days, to believe in the Ideal that Humanism 'will Always win out' against the "Evils of Ignorant Right-winger thinkers", or that Just because you hate them (thanks to years of such leftist crack nut propaganda) for not thinking or believing the way you do, that they MUST be less intelligent than you and Your kind or that "The Enemy" is Always going to fall before Your self-rightious moral rewrite of what a Hero is... well it's just plain dangerious!

The CS (right-wingers that they are) are NOT stupid Nor ignorant about war. They are In fact Masters of it (no matter How bad SoT made them out to be). The FIRST rule of war is "Never, never, Ever underestimate your opponents and their intelligence" and that is what you lefties are being taught in school nowa days to believe (Yes we can retoric). That is dangerious and it IS ignorance by definition.

Clue
The CS has JUST been involved in years long wars on multiple fronts such as with Tolkeen, Kingsdale, Quebec. They clearly screwed up ALLOT but this was a new kind of war for them, they'd never had Full scale war and Despite "horrid" failures and **** poor designs, the fact is that They DID win.

I'm not meaning to come down hard on you and in no way am I angery in the least (correctively consernd perhaps) but what you have said goes to adress a Much deeper issue in our society in that we have Just seen decades of people rising up against 'close-mindedness', ignorance', and the evils of 'propaganda' when fielded by the Right-wing of the US (who usedta control the US in practice if not in word) and to nowa days see left-wingers doing the same after soooo long of saying things to right wingers like "Becareful that in hating your enemy, you don't become them" or "Everyones side thinks the other guy is evil/the bad guy", just to have those same (at the time, correct) people now pushing collective Commi-mind-set via leftist propaganda...

That IS the same as Nazi-Germany and look where it got them. Why bother calling left the left when in the end they do everything the right does... Then they are Exactly the same. One uses Pro-American capitalism calling it Patriotism calling it Freedom, only to go nuts and end up being facist and seeing in the end that freedom die, but the Other side uses Pro-American Socialism & democracy calling it Liberty, only to go nuts and end up being communist and seeing in the end that liberty die as well. the Both groups end up creating the Very Dystpoian Futures thay both fought so very hard against and both accused the other of trying to make.


The points are, DON'T assume that the CS is incompatent just because you don't like them. Just remember that, Adolf "Almost" won and he Did take over a large portion of the world in a Very short time. If (in the end) he'd have kept a leveler head, he Would have... And those Great Liberalistic humanist Americans of that era would have let him do it too.
So those REPO-BOTS aren't push overs, but then Neither is the CS!

Pepsi Jedi wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Pepsi Jedi wrote:I didn't think any of them got through. My point was that the CS did launch nukes that worked and didn't get shot down by the Killer Orbital Satalites. But I thought all got sucked through rifts and none actually landed and hit tolkeen? It's been a while since I read the first book in that series.

Correct. However the repo bots don't know that spell for a varaity of reasons.

Right, but magic in palladium is largely line of sight, and if mages can intercept the missiles with magic. Robots using robotic reflexes and radar able to pick up such things doze

Expect the mages can't. The books made it clear that the only reason that tolkeen was able to do so was because they deciphered a number of Prophesies Poor Yorik, a unique artifact, gave that told them exasctly when to do it, and that without these prophecies tolkeen would have been toast. So no, they can't see them coming without a similarly powerful artifact.

Also, they don't have to intercept them directly, the actual spell involved specifically says that it's effect is to suck in all oncoming missles. So they don't have to be precice, all they have to do is know they're coming WELL in advance so they can use the ritual.

Sorry, that exsample actually hurts your position badly, as it establishes that your saying isn't possible with conventional means.

dragonfett wrote:Thank you KC. I think the reason I didn't find better results is that I was doing a search on ICMB's in general and not anyone specific one that the Coalition may have been able to get. And the missiles that they got from the old US Navy via GAW were Tomahawk Cruise missile.

Some of them were, but the Tomahawks only have warheads in the 100-200 kiloton range, and the book mentions that they found bigger stuff than that (and that they can create up to 50 one-megaton nukes per year based on what they found).

Colt47 wrote:blow any kind of ICBM out of the sky as they wouldn't get past the remaining active guns,

Already covered several reasons why that wouldn't work.

Some of them were, but the Tomahawks only have warheads in the 100-200 kiloton range, and the book mentions that they found bigger stuff than that (and that they can create up to 50 one-megaton nukes per year based on what they found).

Just because the Tomahawks that they found/bought had smaller yield warheads doesn't mean that they couldn't be fitted with warheads capable of higher yields.

dragonfett wrote:

Some of them were, but the Tomahawks only have warheads in the 100-200 kiloton range, and the book mentions that they found bigger stuff than that (and that they can create up to 50 one-megaton nukes per year based on what they found).

Just because the Tomahawks that they found/bought had smaller yield warheads doesn't mean that they couldn't be fitted with warheads capable of higher yields.

Hm.
None of the warheads available for that missile today come close to 1 megaton, but the CS might have improved things a bit.
I'll check out my books when I'm near them again, and see if they have anything more on the subject that would give us a clearer picture.

Well, on nukes, most of the nukes in Rifts are potshot nukes. Even if they did the 1d4-1d6x100 MD the Triax multi-warhead nukes do, it'd take 100 to do 6000md at max damage....6000 out of 160,000? I just can't see nukes being a truely viable option, especially once the bots get out and figure out who's launching against them.

Speaking of the RB, these guys are seriously nasty customers. I'd say 3000 of them could pretty much overcome anything up to a mid sized city. Roughly 33 individual squads of 3000...thats a lot of collateral damage.

However, honestly, people have said it before. Naruni is all about the bottom line. The bots probably are programmed to radio for instructions as soon as they can. They'd get a "Hold on" response and within hours there would be a rift there extracting the whole operation. Phase world gives them a lot of access and makes buying magical rift service easy as pie.

Dr Megaverse wrote:Well, on nukes, most of the nukes in Rifts are potshot nukes. Even if they did the 1d4-1d6x100 MD the Triax multi-warhead nukes do, it'd take 100 to do 6000md at max damage....6000 out of 160,000? I just can't see nukes being a truely viable option, especially once the bots get out and figure out who's launching against them.

The 100k and 200k kiloton nukes in New Navy inflict 2d4x100 MD and 3d4x100 MD respectively.
But the CS has (according to the same book) nukes in the 1 megaton range.
Going by the "every doubling of force = a 50% damage increase" that seems to be the rule for Rifts explosives, the progression would probably look something like this:
100k kilotons = 2d4x100
200k kilotons = 3d4x100
400k kilotons = 3d6x100
800k kilotons = 4-5d6x100

Which would put the 1 megaton nukes in the >5d6x100 MD range. Rounding it off at 6d6x100 MD per nuke, that would be an average of around 2100 MD per hit
1050 MD on average for everything in the blast radius, IF the ship's main gun is still functioning and is able to aim well enough to shoot at incoming missiles, and the CS has to have the nukes hit out of gun range.

The CS can make 50 of these nukes per year, but there is no indication of how many they actually have so far.
If they've been at it for only 3 years, and want to shoot their whole wad at this ship, that would probably come to around 330,000 megadamage, more than enough to kill the ship.
Plus, each one should have a 25% chance of knocking out the ships electronics, rendering it helpless and completely vulnerable to more conventional missiles, of which the CS has thousands to tens of thousands (maybe millions when it comes to mini-missiles).

Speaking of the RB, these guys are seriously nasty customers. I'd say 3000 of them could pretty much overcome anything up to a mid sized city. Roughly 33 individual squads of 3000...thats a lot of collateral damage.

The CS has something like a 1 million man army.
Each and every CS grunt is trained in the use of power armor combat.
The CS has something like 2.5 million SAMAS in storage.
I think they'd win, if it came down to it.

However, honestly, people have said it before. Naruni is all about the bottom line. The bots probably are programmed to radio for instructions as soon as they can. They'd get a "Hold on" response and within hours there would be a rift there extracting the whole operation. Phase world gives them a lot of access and makes buying magical rift service easy as pie.

I can go with that. They'd probably be gone before the CS even noticed they were there, or during some preliminary attacks.
And when they left, the CS would declare victory against the evil aliens.

Dr Megaverse wrote:Well, on nukes, most of the nukes in Rifts are potshot nukes. Even if they did the 1d4-1d6x100 MD the Triax multi-warhead nukes do, it'd take 100 to do 6000md at max damage....6000 out of 160,000? I just can't see nukes being a truely viable option, especially once the bots get out and figure out who's launching against them.

I thought that those nukes in 'Navy' got up into the 1million range of MDC! 1D6x100 seems a bit far off when compaired to what I read them as doing. That puts them about equal to the (comparative) pea-shooter heavy weapons from the books. D6x100 sounds way off. R U guys sure about those numbers?

Dr Megaverse wrote:Speaking of the RB, these guys are seriously nasty customers. I'd say 3000 of them could pretty much overcome anything up to a mid sized city. Roughly 33 individual squads of 3000...thats a lot of collateral damage.

Excerp from my above post...

Steeler49er wrote:FIRST The CS Beats the Heck out of (in size/numbers) the numbers the OP's listed number for Repo bots.

SECOND Repo bots are NOT all that. They are Just Normal borgs (as per their stats) but with twice the MDC (big whoop!) a decent partical beam in some cases and a Force Feild! The Force feild is the ONLY thing that the CS ain't got but... Who cares. The CS has Plenty of near (enough) equivalent types of tech and they got tons more of it.

As I said above in the prior statements, outside of the larger MDC (which CS Borgs can get pretty close to with heavy borg armor) and the Force feild, there is honestly nothing "All-that" about Reop-Bots. SURE they look neat, but for borgs they're not great.


Also, the CS has allotta Psychics with TK (hard to fight and aim when you're lifted up high in the air for others to shoot at you, and TK Sheild with which the CS can create walls on the battle field to stop RB progression & to sheild the CS from attack (not to mention holding a bot in place). Not to mention that many psychics can go astral (which Repo-bots can't see) and can move and spy on the goings on of the 'RB' at mach speed.
The CS has HUGE dividions of Skelebots to use as front line canon fodder (plus never forget that they can Still you) that would take time for the Repo-Bots to mow through. then the CS has a Powerful standing Air Force that can pull off lethal long range barrages and strafing runs. The CS has a Very Large Mech division with robots able to do Devistating (and Apparently based on your guys posts, near Nuke level) damage from their weapons...
ALPHA STRIKE!!!

All and all the CS could only loose by being caught off guard by a full on BLITZ of Repo-bots. Which it would take the Repo-Bots ALLOT longer (after the crash) to figure out what is going on and where they were and Who is an enemy and How should they respond to them... Than it would take for the CS to respond AND gather an army of tens of thousands... It'd take the CS 1hour, by which point the Repobots would be faced with a p!ssed off army of little black-ant-nazis.

Killer Cyborg wrote:

Dr Megaverse wrote:Well, on nukes, most of the nukes in Rifts are potshot nukes. Even if they did the 1d4-1d6x100 MD the Triax multi-warhead nukes do, it'd take 100 to do 6000md at max damage....6000 out of 160,000? I just can't see nukes being a truely viable option, especially once the bots get out and figure out who's launching against them.

The 100k and 200k kiloton nukes in New Navy inflict 2d4x100 MD and 3d4x100 MD respectively.
But the CS has (according to the same book) nukes in the 1 megaton range.
Going by the "every doubling of force = a 50% damage increase" that seems to be the rule for Rifts explosives, the progression would probably look something like this:
100k kilotons = 2d4x100
200k kilotons = 3d4x100
400k kilotons = 3d6x100
800k kilotons = 4-5d6x100

Which would put the 1 megaton nukes in the >5d6x100 MD range. Rounding it off at 6d6x100 MD per nuke, that would be an average of around 2100 MD per hit
1050 MD on average for everything in the blast radius, IF the ship's main gun is still functioning and is able to aim well enough to shoot at incoming missiles, and the CS has to have the nukes hit out of gun range.

The CS can make 50 of these nukes per year, but there is no indication of how many they actually have so far.
If they've been at it for only 3 years, and want to shoot their whole wad at this ship, that would probably come to around 330,000 megadamage, more than enough to kill the ship.
Plus, each one should have a 25% chance of knocking out the ships electronics, rendering it helpless and completely vulnerable to more conventional missiles, of which the CS has thousands to tens of thousands (maybe millions when it comes to mini-missiles).

Speaking of the RB, these guys are seriously nasty customers. I'd say 3000 of them could pretty much overcome anything up to a mid sized city. Roughly 33 individual squads of 3000...thats a lot of collateral damage.

The CS has something like a 1 million man army.
Each and every CS grunt is trained in the use of power armor combat.
The CS has something like 2.5 million SAMAS in storage.
I think they'd win, if it came down to it.

However, honestly, people have said it before. Naruni is all about the bottom line. The bots probably are programmed to radio for instructions as soon as they can. They'd get a "Hold on" response and within hours there would be a rift there extracting the whole operation. Phase world gives them a lot of access and makes buying magical rift service easy as pie.

I can go with that. They'd probably be gone before the CS even noticed they were there, or during some preliminary attacks.
And when they left, the CS would declare victory against the evil aliens.

Thing is this argument stipulates that the CS would unload 150 (or more) 1 Megaton nukes inside their own borders at a threat. They've never launched against the Bugs like this. Or Calgary, or Atlantis (outside their borders) Or anything. And the fall out from launching that sort of attack would surely kill the CS as well. Remember for all their might, the CS 'controls' a pretty narrow corridor of the US. Maybe 1/5th of the country, and that's claimed control not true control. Shooting off 150 nukes in the middle of the US is not going to be good for anyone. There's reasons nukes were used once and never again. You're sure not going to use them for threats on domestic soil. (( even being what it is with the CS))

So the CS has over 1 million troops, great. Just out of curiousity, how fast can the CS mobilize and fully arm 1 million troops?

The CS has something like a 1 million man army.
Each and every CS grunt is trained in the use of power armor combat.
The CS has something like 2.5 million SAMAS in storage.
I think they'd win, if it came down to it.

Numbers don't work in this deal. The space fighters far outclass the Samas and even rocket bikes. They can enter range, fire, and pull out before the enemy can return fire. Also, they will never get a chance to mobilize all that firepower even if they had it. (They don't have a 1 million man army when they just got done beating their face in with Tolkeen. At least not a 1 million man army worth mentioning.)

The RDF is what would be dispatched against the ship, and assuming they are within range of four or five cities RDFs that puts the numbers just over 100,000 men. The repobots outgun and armor them, and they got support from a mobile juggernaut with four wings of fighter/bombers that can out maneuver the CS fighters and SAMAS, and that ship has 600 cruise missiles that do as much damage as the low yield pot shot nukes listed. Oh, and the fighter/bombers have bomb/missiles with similar damage capabilities.

Can the CS hypothetically wear the ship down in the long run? Yes, but it would not be worth the cost.

Killer Cyborg wrote:

Colt47 wrote:blow any kind of ICBM out of the sky as they wouldn't get past the remaining active guns,

Already covered several reasons why that wouldn't work.

Wouldn't work as in the ICBMs wouldn't work, or the guns on the ship wouldn't work on the missiles? They aren't going to use megaton missiles here KC.

Colt47 wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:

Colt47 wrote:blow any kind of ICBM out of the sky as they wouldn't get past the remaining active guns,

Already covered several reasons why that wouldn't work.

Wouldn't work as in the ICBMs wouldn't work, or the guns on the ship wouldn't work on the missiles?

Guns on the ship won't work against ICBMs.

They aren't going to use megaton missiles here KC.

Why wouldn't they?

blaze wrote: The CS wouldnt use nukes in there own territory for the simple fact. Nuclear Fallout. they have lived through that once and had to rebuild. The radiation alone drifting through the area would affect more than just were this ship landed. But they wouldnt rule out nukes till the last ditch effort. but it wouldnt come to that. because it would take them to long to just make up there mind what to do. formulate a plan and execute it. It is the way the military runs ladies in gentlemen. It is how it has always been.
The ship will be gone before the CS has a chance to do anything about it. they will find a hole in the ground. Or the research team may catch a glance as it as it rockets off away from the CS territory.

Big nukes wouldn't be their first option, but it'd happen pretty fast if the threat were deemed big enough.
Also, IIRC, New Navy mentions that the nukes the CS goes for are designed for minimal fallout, so the radiation might not be that huge a deal.
Also, also, considering the fact that North America doesn't glow at night (except for the ley lines), and the sheer number of nuclear power supplies that irradiate an area if it's breached during combat, I think it's probable that they have much better means of cleaning up radiation than we have today.

Pepsi Jedi wrote:Thing is this argument stipulates that the CS would unload 150 (or more) 1 Megaton nukes inside their own borders at a threat.

Actually, it stipulates that they could probably do so.
As I said before, they wouldn't need that many. Probably 4 would do it, because each one has a 25% chance of knocking out the electronics of the ship, rendering it fairly helpless against conventional missiles.

They've never launched against the Bugs like this. Or Calgary, or Atlantis (outside their borders) Or anything.

No threat on that scale has ever plopped down into their lap before.

And the fall out from launching that sort of attack would surely kill the CS as well. Remember for all their might, the CS 'controls' a pretty narrow corridor of the US. Maybe 1/5th of the country, and that's claimed control not true control. Shooting off 150 nukes in the middle of the US is not going to be good for anyone. There's reasons nukes were used once and never again. You're sure not going to use them for threats on domestic soil. (( even being what it is with the CS))

[/quote]

Addressed in another post to another poster.

dragonfett wrote:So the CS has over 1 million troops, great. Just out of curiousity, how fast can the CS mobilize and fully arm 1 million troops?

IIRC, they had something like a million troops for the Siege on Tolkeen. Not sure what the numbers are now.
How fast could they mobilize?

Probably not with lightning speed, but they are a military nation designed to attack hostile forces and defend their territory. They probably have quite a few contingency plans that would involve massive deployment of troops.

Colt47 wrote:

The CS has something like a 1 million man army.
Each and every CS grunt is trained in the use of power armor combat.
The CS has something like 2.5 million SAMAS in storage.
I think they'd win, if it came down to it.

Numbers don't work in this deal. The space fighters far outclass the Samas and even rocket bikes.

Oh.
Okay.

Uh.. .what space fighters?

At least not a 1 million man army worth mentioning.

As I pointed out before, every single CS Grunt is trained for power armor combat.
Even their raw recruits learn this before leaving boot camp, because it's an OCC skill.

(but yeah, their numbers might well be lower after SoT. Then again, they might have Quebec backing them up this time.)

The RDF is what would be dispatched against the ship, and assuming they are within range of four or five cities RDFs that puts the numbers just over 100,000 men.

Robotech Defense Force?

Killer Cyborg wrote:

Colt47 wrote:

The CS has something like a 1 million man army.
Each and every CS grunt is trained in the use of power armor combat.
The CS has something like 2.5 million SAMAS in storage.
I think they'd win, if it came down to it.

Numbers don't work in this deal. The space fighters far outclass the Samas and even rocket bikes.

Oh.
Okay.

Uh.. .what space fighters?

At least not a 1 million man army worth mentioning.

As I pointed out before, every single CS Grunt is trained for power armor combat.
Even their raw recruits learn this before leaving boot camp, because it's an OCC skill.

(but yeah, their numbers might well be lower after SoT. Then again, they might have Quebec backing them up this time.)

The RDF is what would be dispatched against the ship, and assuming they are within range of four or five cities RDFs that puts the numbers just over 100,000 men.

Robotech Defense Force?

Rapid Deployment force. Look in the CWC for details. This is the best I got to go on as for what an individual city can deploy within a reasonable pace.

Also, the ship has four wings of 11 Naruni Fire Spitter attack ships which are detailed two pages prior to the Commodity. It also comes with 30 fully upgraded Naruni Juggernaut hover tanks (Anti matter generators, K-hex missiles, no cool-down on main gun), a full crew with additional four companies of repo bots, the 99,400 in pods over in storage that are likely active considering the reasons why they would be carrying them.

Also this ship isn't immobile. I reread the first post and it still can move around. So it's a giant mobile base with enough firepower to level an entire city. Honestly KC, this ship could take out one or two full CS fortress cities if the Naruni felt like it long before they could get a sizable enough force to actually force it to retreat.

However, you have to look at it this way: we are comparing a Rifts Earth power to a 3 galaxies power. The CS just don't have the tech level to deal with them very well. You could replace the Commodity with any number of other major battle ships from the 3 galaxies setting and get a similar result. (assuming they have wings of fighters as well and a sizable landing force to do clean up work.)

The ship itself would be shredding the enemy ground forces while the Fighters would be providing cover against incoming missiles and aircraft (The ship can even help with the missiles as it has plenty of spare guns). The ground tanks would be deployed after the main guns make short work of the enemies front lines, and the repo-bot infantry would follow suit.

Killer Cyborg wrote:

Pepsi Jedi wrote:Thing is this argument stipulates that the CS would unload 150 (or more) 1 Megaton nukes inside their own borders at a threat.

Actually, it stipulates that they could probably do so.
As I said before, they wouldn't need that many. Probably 4 would do it, because each one has a 25% chance of knocking out the electronics of the ship, rendering it fairly helpless against conventional missiles.

They've never launched against the Bugs like this. Or Calgary, or Atlantis (outside their borders) Or anything.

No threat on that scale has ever plopped down into their lap before.

And the fall out from launching that sort of attack would surely kill the CS as well. Remember for all their might, the CS 'controls' a pretty narrow corridor of the US. Maybe 1/5th of the country, and that's claimed control not true control. Shooting off 150 nukes in the middle of the US is not going to be good for anyone. There's reasons nukes were used once and never again. You're sure not going to use them for threats on domestic soil. (( even being what it is with the CS))

Addressed in another post to another poster.[/quote]


You're still shooting your own country with Nukes. be it 150 (( Quite a few)) to 4 megaton nukes. Betting that... a group of interstellar arms merchants don't have EMP Shielded systems or back up systems in their huuuuuge intergalactic and interdimensional Army transport ships or super advanced robotic soldiers.

Now, this is just me, but I think if they're intergalactic and interdimensional arms brokers they have pretty much figured out to shield thier stuff from EMP a long time back.

And again this is skirting the fact that these ships are ment to take over planet size targets. The planets, in theory are not just going to roll over like the French. They're going to fight back. And sooner or later somone is going to use the outdated 'lets launch an ICBM' at um technology. They're going to have some sort of missle defence on a ship that holds that many thousands of expensive troops.

To not, but field it as an interdimensional army would show gross and massive oversight. If you can move faster than the speed of light and build hundreds of thousands of repo bots and repossess entire planets to pay off depts. Rift's earth 400 year old ICBM's aren't going to have a chance.

The Bots would probably detect the silo's fueling up and could take them out on the launch pads or such before launch. The US has this ability now and we're not intersteller/interdimensional travelers/ arms merchants. And with the CS being as "small" as it is. As soon as the nukes start spinning up, the Repo bots could fly there and take um out.

In theory.

Killer Cyborg wrote:

Colt47 wrote:

The CS has something like a 1 million man army.
Each and every CS grunt is trained in the use of power armor combat.
The CS has something like 2.5 million SAMAS in storage.
I think they'd win, if it came down to it.

Numbers don't work in this deal. The space fighters far outclass the Samas and even rocket bikes.

Oh.
Okay.

Uh.. .what space fighters?

The imaginary Naruni ones brought in to win the arguement of course
I kid I kid.
I know about the ships I kid.

Killer Cyborg wrote:

The RDF is what would be dispatched against the ship, and assuming they are within range of four or five cities RDFs that puts the numbers just over 100,000 men.

Robotech Defense Force?

Yeah, I went there as well.

Colt47 wrote:Also, the ship has four wings of 11 Naruni Fire Spitter attack ships which are detailed two pages prior to the Commodity. It also comes with 30 fully upgraded Naruni Juggernaut hover tanks (Anti matter generators, K-hex missiles, no cool-down on main gun), a full crew with additional four companies of repo bots, the 99,400 in pods over in storage that are likely active considering the reasons why they would be carrying them.

Ah, I missed where Lenwen mentioned other ships. That would make a difference.

Also, I have been going off of your post earlier where you quoted the book:
If it is being used exclusively for troop transport, then nearly any mix of men and machines imaginable can be used. At its maximum, it can transport 99,400 Repo-Bots (roughly 650 companies), but the robots are powered down, and stacked up like cordwood until the ship arrives at the combat zone.

From that, it sounded like if the ship was carrying that many repos, there wouldn't be room for tanks or anything else.

Also this ship isn't immobile. I reread the first post and it still can move around. So it's a giant mobile base with enough firepower to level an entire city. Honestly KC, this ship could take out one or two full CS fortress cities if the Naruni felt like it long before they could get a sizable enough force to actually force it to retreat.

Yup; rereading that, it would make things a LOT harder.
On the other hand, is there any reason that a Naruni ship that was still fully capable of atmospheric flight would even bother to hang out in CS territory at all, much less attack cities?

The ship itself would be shredding the enemy ground forces while the Fighters would be providing cover against incoming missiles and aircraft (The ship can even help with the missiles as it has plenty of spare guns). The ground tanks would be deployed after the main guns make short work of the enemies front lines, and the repo-bot infantry would follow suit.

Then I think it would be very probable that the big nukes would be used.

Pepsi Jedi wrote:Now, this is just me, but I think if they're intergalactic and interdimensional arms brokers they have pretty much figured out to shield thier stuff from EMP a long time back.

The 25% is for the stuff that's shielded from EMPs. Without shielding, they'd be screwed with the first nuke.

They're going to have some sort of missle defence on a ship that holds that many thousands of expensive troops.

Didn't see anything listed, other than guns and missiles.

TThe Bots would probably detect the silo's fueling up and could take them out on the launch pads or such before launch.

Really?
They must have really good sensors that can reach for many miles.

Killer Cyborg wrote:

Pepsi Jedi wrote:Now, this is just me, but I think if they're intergalactic and interdimensional arms brokers they have pretty much figured out to shield thier stuff from EMP a long time back.

The 25% is for the stuff that's shielded from EMPs. Without shielding, they'd be screwed with the first nuke.

They're going to have some sort of missle defence on a ship that holds that many thousands of expensive troops.

Didn't see anything listed, other than guns and missiles.

TThe Bots would probably detect the silo's fueling up and could take them out on the launch pads or such before launch.

Really?
They must have really good sensors that can reach for many miles.

The problem is that the nukes would be destroyed before impacting or dodged all together. Those kinds of missiles are meant to be used against non-mobile emplacements, not something capable of moving at Mach 2 Atmospheric flight. They might just move out of the way of a nuclear strike as well and let the nuke do the clean up for them: Why bother sending ground forces when the opponent is being so gracious?

But again, this is all saying Naruni decides to do some damage. Most likely they would be more concerned with leaving and getting back on track to whatever other planet they were supposed to lay the smack down on as many people have pointed out before, including yourself.

only briefly read through some of the messages in this thread, so apologies if this has been mentioned before, but if any naruni war ship decides to even break wind anywhere near rifts earth, old splynny is going to rift it to the nearest black hole before it knows whats hit it

If it is an ICBM that they use, they would have a tough time outrunning a missile that can move at Mach 23 (or there abouts). But you do have a good point on the fact that ICBM's are meant more for attacking immobile cities, not small, moving spaceships (small compared to a city, that is). But that doesn't mean that they wouldn't use their Tomahawk Cruise Missiles or some other LRM (which have a air speed of Mach 3), not to mention that a Death's Head Transport and their version of a Bomber can both do Mach 2 in atmosphere IIRC.

DBX wrote:only briefly read through some of the messages in this thread, so apologies if this has been mentioned before, but if any naruni war ship decides to even break wind anywhere near rifts earth, old splynny is going to rift it to the nearest black hole before it knows whats hit it

We are going under the assumption the ship made it planet side. We are also assuming that it is being attacked by CS forces because the ship is in CS territory, which is leading down two different possibilities without including the rest of the factions on the NA Continent.

I don't agree with the Rifting it to a black hole deal (you can rule that as a GM if you want to) but in any case, the situation is really out of left field. This would never happen in the Rifts Setting under any normal situation. Maybe for a short cross over scenario, but even then you'll have another 3 Galaxies force coming to the planet as well to combat the threat. The tech level of the highest immediately aggressive tech powers on the NA continent are too far behind the tech of this ship, making any kind of counter action against the Commodity ill conceived and self damaging. The one thing the book doesn't detail well is the sensor range on ships. We know that all spacecraft of this type have "Radar, Sonar, Gravity wave (doesn't work in atmosphere), Thermographic, Motion, and radiation sensors in normal space with a range of 200,000 miles". I'd assume the systems would have a monstrous range on the planets surface (Probably 2,000 + miles), but if anyone can find an exact number that would be good.

dragonfett wrote:If it is an ICBM that they use, they would have a tough time outrunning a missile that can move at Mach 23 (or there abouts). But you do have a good point on the fact that ICBM's are meant more for attacking immobile cities, not small, moving spaceships (small compared to a city, that is). But that doesn't mean that they wouldn't use their Tomahawk Cruise Missiles or some other LRM (which have a air speed of Mach 3), not to mention that a Death's Head Transport and their version of a Bomber can both do Mach 2 in atmosphere IIRC.

Right now things are leaning towards it could detect a nuclear launch at a pretty good range, which means it shouldn't have issues moving out of the way with the speed the ship is capable of. The ship can out run the blast wave.

Colt47 wrote:The problem is that the nukes would be destroyed before impacting or dodged all together. Those kinds of missiles are meant to be used against non-mobile emplacements, not something capable of moving at Mach 2 Atmospheric flight. They might just move out of the way of a nuclear strike as well and let the nuke do the clean up for them: Why bother sending ground forces when the opponent is being so gracious?

They could be dodged, to a point. The nukes would be faster than that ship, though, and the CS can make LRMs that are Smart Missiles, capable of repeated attacks if they miss.
Since the nukes we're talking about are probably currently set up for at least relatively stationary land or sea targets, though, the CS would probably have to take a little time to do this.

Again, though, the nuke wouldn't even have to hit the ship directly; if it detonated NEAR the ship, there would be a 25% chance of knocking out the entire ship with the EMP.
And by Palladium rules, IIRC, shooting down a missile detonates it.
If they're flying when the electronics get shot, it's probably not going to end that well for them. As lame as I think it is, MDC vehicles can get totaled in high-speed crashes. This one probably wouldn't be, but it'd surely get messed up pretty bad.

And, of course, the CS could launch a battery of hundreds or thousands of other missiles at the same time, to provide cover, to do additional damage, and to act as chaff to distract the gunners.

But again, this is all saying Naruni decides to do some damage. Most likely they would be more concerned with leaving and getting back on track to whatever other planet they were supposed to lay the smack down on as many people have pointed out before, including yourself.

Yup. We're in 100% agreement on that.

Two other possible factors:
1. The orbiting satellites. The ship can't leave the atmosphere, but they might stray high enough to attract attention from some of the lower-orbit satellites, depending on how high the ship can go, how low the nearest satellites are, and what their range is.
2. Psychics. The CS has quite a few psychics among them, including Mind Melters and others capable of Telemechanic powers.
IF they could get one in range of the ship (and I agree that's a big IF), one psychic could potentially take out (or take over) the entire ship. Or even just get its blueprints for the CS to analyze for vulnerabilities.
I'm not saying that it would happen, but it's possible that if the ship was flying around tearing stuff up, that the CS would even get a mage to cast Invisibility Superior on the psychic and/or psychic's vehicle to help it get into range.

Colt47 wrote:The ship can out run the blast wave.

A C4 explosion moves at 26,400 feet per second, which comes out to 18,000 miles per hour, which is faster than Mach 2 (1,522 mph at sea level).
Nuclear explosions might be even faster, since there is that much more force behind the blast.

The orbital killer satellites are based around rifts earth not really having any space forces though aren't they. Not phase world or better space tech. I got the impression that the killer Sats kept the stuff on earth because it was alot easier to keep the post apocalyptic feeling if people couldn't just hop in a ship and leave any time they wanted. Couldn't/doesn't phase world ships pretty much zip in and out if they feel like it? Thusly this big ol thing not really worry about those? Kinda feel it'd just blast a hole in the killer sat coverage field and leave --if-- it could (( the entire hypothetical is that the ship crashed on earth. Not got lost and landed looking for directions))

You know, I wouldn't really be that worried about the naruni ship. I would be paranoid about the mysterious thing that was able to send the ship crashing down to earth. Even if it only did minor damage the fact is this ship has been driven off, shot down or chased by something that it couldn;t deal with.
Dominators? Demon Planet?

Killer Cyborg wrote:

Colt47 wrote:The ship can out run the blast wave.

A C4 explosion moves at 26,400 feet per second, which comes out to 18,000 miles per hour, which is faster than Mach 2 (1,522 mph at sea level).
Nuclear explosions might be even faster, since there is that much more force behind the blast.

KC we can go back and forth on this all day. If you are assuming the ship is going to hold still as a megaton nuclear missile launches, flies through the air, lands, and detonates next to it, yes it wont be able to out run the blast range at ground zero.

Just drop it with the nukes:

1. They aren't a miracle card that solves all of the CS's problems.

2. They will not kill the ship.

3. They wont even hit the ship.

4. It will probably end up doing more damage to the planet and people on it than the ship and the people inside the ship.

6. Megaton nukes are ballistic missiles, no the CS can not just jury rig them into heat seeking missiles within a time frame that would even matter as that would involve completely overhauling the delivery systems.

Also C4 does not equal atomic explosion. Edit: Can't find any numbers for the blast wave, but the ship would be way outside of the blast of the nuclear bomb anyway so it doesn't really matter. (It can lay siege to a city or ground attack force from 7+ Miles up in the sky)

Jabborwacky wrote:Looked it over a little bit more. CS has 0% chance of victory here. Either they are defeated by the repo-bots or they commit suicide using their nuclear warheads to destroy the repo-bots out of their own xenophobia(blow up their own territory and assets, forever crippling their power base).

On the other hand, the secondary scenario would be quite the poetic end of the CS, killed by their own hatred and fear.

The CS isn't that stupid, and no single super carrier / battleship, no matter how powerful it is, is going to take down the CS. I'm arguing that it will do significant damage before being forced to retreat if it went on the offensive.

Killer Cyborg wrote:

Pepsi Jedi wrote:

TThe Bots would probably detect the silo's fueling up and could take them out on the launch pads or such before launch.

Really?
They must have really good sensors that can reach for many miles.

Using 2010 tech we have sensors that can detect missiles fueling up and spinning up in their silos over like 96% of the earth. and that's just the US. Many of them are sat based but as noted the ship has wings of space fighters. Once it crashes it's going to put some of those in the sky for eyes and range them out. Current jet fighters here on earth have over the horizon radar that can not only pick out targets but fire missiles before the pilot can even see them and shoot down jets and stuff the pilot never even eyeballs. That's 2010 tech.

The opponents in question are literally masters of FTL travel and inter-dimensional rifting. To assume their tech is behind 2010 tech is a pretty big jump.

I do totally agree though that they wouldn't be spoiling for a fight. They'd make contact with the blues at Merc town or Atlantis to get a rift opened up to get their down shipped reclaimed and get on with business. Only if the CS Jumped and attacked like rabid dogs would it come to a big battle.

And as much as the CS is Xenophobic. I don't think they'd rush into a battle of this size. They'd recon first and try and figure out what to do. They came to power during the dark ages and have prospered on rifts earth. You don't get to be the big bad boy on the block by stupidly just charging anything that shows up.

During their recon they'd probably figure out. whoooooooooooooooooooooooooooa this is a BIIIIG fight... and by the time they figured out what they wanted to do about it. the blues would have reclaimed their ship, removing the problem. lol

Killer Cyborg wrote:and the book mentions that they found bigger stuff than that (and that they can create up to 50 one-megaton nukes per year based on what they found).

Book an pg number please ?

Killer Cyborg wrote:Ah, I missed where Lenwen mentioned other ships. That would make a difference.

I never mentioned the ships .. because I had thought more people had the book itself and actually would read up on the whole ship and its entire stock ..

I had no idea this many people would simply say the CS would win .. with out even going over the material that I presented in the first place.

Just goes to show you how easy and cheesy it is for people just to simply wave their hand an say the CS would win .. just cause ..

Sorta makes me laugh a lil when people give the knee-jerk reaction of "the CS wins" ..

If faced by an even numbered amount of troops .. with the same training .. and better tech .. The CS would go down faster then a .. well lets just say fast .

Killer Cyborg wrote:Also, I have been going off of your post earlier where you quoted the book:
If it is being used exclusively for troop transport, then nearly any mix of men and machines imaginable can be used. At its maximum, it can transport 99,400 Repo-Bots (roughly 650 companies), but the robots are powered down, and stacked up like cordwood until the ship arrives at the combat zone.

From that, it sounded like if the ship was carrying that many repos, there wouldn't be room for tanks or anything else.

Actually .. KC ..

The section above "Possible Cargos" is another heading called "Additional Vehicles" .. Which are in fact along with the Ship no matter what cargo it is carrying .. As in .. Ships automatic compliment included with .. what it is transporting.

Or it would flat out state otherwise .. Which it does not.

Colt47 wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:

Colt47 wrote:The ship can out run the blast wave.

A C4 explosion moves at 26,400 feet per second, which comes out to 18,000 miles per hour, which is faster than Mach 2 (1,522 mph at sea level).
Nuclear explosions might be even faster, since there is that much more force behind the blast.

KC we can go back and forth on this all day. If you are assuming the ship is going to hold still as a megaton nuclear missile launches, flies through the air, lands, and detonates next to it, yes it wont be able to out run the blast range at ground zero.

Actually, I'm assuming that the missiles move faster than the ship does in an atmosphere, and that volleys of 4+ missiles cannot be dodged, and that the CS has smart-missile technology that allows a missile that misses (or gets dodged) to attack repeatedly until it is destroyed or lands a hit and that smart missiles can dodge incoming attacks directed at them.

1. They aren't a miracle card that solves all of the CS's problems.

Never said they were. Just that they are effective weapons, and that each time a nuke goes off the EMP field will have a 25% chance of taking out any electronics in the area.

2. They will not kill the ship.
3. They wont even hit the ship.

If you've got any in-game support for that, please share it.
Do these ships have a huge bonus to dodge? Do they have autododge? Can they dodge volleys of more than 4 missiles?
Are they listed as having shielding that makes them impervious to all EMPs, even from heavy nukes?
If you're right about those ideas, then all you have to do is to show me the evidence.

4. It will probably end up doing more damage to the planet and people on it than the ship and the people inside the ship.

That would depend on 2 and 3.

6. Megaton nukes are ballistic missiles, no the CS can not just jury rig them into heat seeking missiles within a time frame that would even matter as that would involve completely overhauling the delivery systems.

All they'd have to do, actually, is to transfer the warheads to other missiles.

Also C4 does not equal atomic explosion.

Agreed. Nukes are usually more powerful.

Edit: Can't find any numbers for the blast wave, but the ship would be way outside of the blast of the nuclear bomb anyway so it doesn't really matter. (It can lay siege to a city or ground attack force from 7+ Miles up in the sky)

Uh.. you DO know that CS missiles can travel hundreds or thousands of miles, right?
And, again, if you have any solid reason to believe that the ship couldn't get hit by a nuke, feel free to share.

I'm arguing that it will do significant damage before being forced to retreat if it went on the offensive.

Barring any new information that supports your claim that nukes couldn't hit the ship, I'd say that the ship would do significant damage before being forced to retreat or got destroyed.
So at least we agree on the "significant damage" part.

Pepsi Jedi wrote:Using 2010 tech we have sensors that can detect missiles fueling up and spinning up in their silos over like 96% of the earth.

Welcome to Palladium's Megaverse, where high technology ain't what it's cracked up to be.
Not all of the high tech stuff in Palladium, no matter how futuristic, is better (or even equal to) what we have today.

Now, if the book that describes this ship lists sensors that can detect missiles fueling up and spinning up in their silos over like 96% of the earth, then that's what they have.
If not, then don't bet on it.

I do totally agree though that they wouldn't be spoiling for a fight. They'd make contact with the blues at Merc town or Atlantis to get a rift opened up to get their down shipped reclaimed and get on with business.

I think we're all onboard with that.

And as much as the CS is Xenophobic. I don't think they'd rush into a battle of this size. They'd recon first and try and figure out what to do. They came to power during the dark ages and have prospered on rifts earth. You don't get to be the big bad boy on the block by stupidly just charging anything that shows up.

During their recon they'd probably figure out. whoooooooooooooooooooooooooooa this is a BIIIIG fight... and by the time they figured out what they wanted to do about it. the blues would have reclaimed their ship, removing the problem. lol

Agreed.

Lenwen wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:and the book mentions that they found bigger stuff than that (and that they can create up to 50 one-megaton nukes per year based on what they found).

Book an pg number please ?

New Navy, pp 46-48
Specifically, By the early 21st century, the specter of world war had ended, the need for nuclear weapons was no longer manifest, and, as a result, the US Navy divested itself of these repugnant weapons. Some nuclear weapons were retained however, for deterrence purposes, stored in heavily guarded facilities just in case they were needed. Sadly, these weapons and their designs were inherited by the Coalition.
Hand-in-hand with the construction of the CS Navy, the CS military has also developed a large-scale nuclear weapons program.

and

... many arms manufacturers sell long-range missiles with mini-tactical nuclear warheads. The CS program, however, represents a major shift in nuclear warheads...
...CS nukes are patterned after the pinnacle of pre-apocalypse nuclear weapons design- the same design that touched off the Great Cataclysm. These are "clean" devices that produce minimal fallout (long-term radiation) but combine the destruction of a thermonuclear explosion with the enhanced radiation of a neutron bomb. What this means is that these nukes can utterly destroy enemy cities, bases and armies without causing long-term devastation of the environment, or so the CS believes.

and

Due to the abundance of weapons-grade nuclear, a material produced in the power plants of the CS war machines, the Coalition is able to produce 50 devices of up to 1 megaton yield per year!

and

The only reason the CSN has been furnished with nukes is to deter Splugorth/Atlantis aggression, and to provide Navy vessels with the capacity to sink enormous ships such as the US Ticonderoga (20,000 MDC), Horune Dream Ships (20,000 MDC), and Splugorth Sea Skimmers (30,000 MDC).

The 1 megaton nukes aren't statted out, but they're designed to go after moving targets (slower than spaceships) with tens of thousands of MDC.

By the way, this thing weighs 907,184,740 Kilograms and is moving at 680.58 meters per second in an atmosphere. Do you have any idea what this ships shock wave would be like? Well, the momentum is at 617,411,000,000 in Kilograms x meters per second with most of the energy being turned into heat and sound. every cubic meter of air that comes in direct contact with this ship will be given a velocity of 514,509,166,700 meters per second, which isn't possible since the air would be moving faster than the speed of light.

I really don't want to think about what this ship is doing to the planet as it moves at Mach 2...

The highest hurricane force winds ever recorded were moving at 93.874 meters per second....

BINGO AND PERFECTLY SAID JABBORWACKY
YEAH... WE HAVE A WINNER!!!

Although I don't agree that the impact from falling 100,000 ft up would be anywhere the World wide level of devistation that is assumed to have killed the dino's, i DO agree with Absolutely everything else.

Jabborwacky has hit this nail Smack on the head. If SNoW nukes go off ((The Real ones used to Wipe states, were described in one of the books as being in the millions of MDC range-forgot page NO#)) and would send an EMP that Would most [non-hardend] electronics for a hundered miles, plus it would cause a mini-nuke winter, Plus it would send high winds all over and Vape dozens of miles and Devistate a hundered miles with easy...

Tactical-Nukes on the Other hand would do Crap for damage (D6x100+/-) and would At Best do some heavy scuff damage to the ships hull while reducing their force feilds by very little (Every Large high tech ship, which is all of them, in Phase world has an average of 10,000MDC worth of variable force feilds) damage all and all.

PLUS, Neither the Repo-bots Nor the CS would want this fight.
The CS psychics that can see the future would get a Horrid vision a week or more prior that a horrible fate would bestow the innitiator of a fight with the "Falling Naruni star".
The CS would use Psychics and check out the ship... then let them.

War is costly, and Yes the CS Would use Nukes when all else failed, and those nukes Would likely destroy the ship if enough hit. If those nukes were State killer (SNoW Nukes) then heck yah the ship would get blasted from the thing even if it 'pre-detonated' at even a few mile out. The second SNoW coming in out of the newly made Blind spot would finish whatever the first one didn't...
But that would fragg ½ the US in nuke winter, Blind millions look up, and fragg ½ the tech in the old US And it would(as the CS fears) T-off many nations who remember what Started the caticlysm off, Including the Splooies.
And the CS would rather let this whole thing Go away. Yes the two forces may skirmmish but, in the end the two would hold back and the NE star ship would Just leave earth in a few hours after crashing.


Arguement in favor

Hey KC, just how big are the EMP blasts from a nuke? Does the yield of the nuke matter? The reason I ask is because I just thought of something. You are going on the assumption that the CS could get a nuke close enough to the Naruni ship that the EMP blast would actually have any effect. With weapons that have a range of 17 miles and their own compliment missiles to shoot down the incoming missiles. True?

One of the queastions we are forgetting is why did it crash and what made it crash?

Maybe it got hit by a Rift Cannon (off of a UWW ship, IIRC).

kogwar wrote:One of the queastions we are forgetting is why did it crash and what made it crash?

I already mentioned that AND what was the ships original mission a while back and got no reply from the OP...
Still waiting as that answers allot.

dragonfett wrote:Hey KC, just how big are the EMP blasts from a nuke? Does the yield of the nuke matter? The reason I ask is because I just thought of something. You are going on the assumption that the CS could get a nuke close enough to the Naruni ship that the EMP blast would actually have any effect. With weapons that have a range of 17 miles and their own compliment missiles to shoot down the incoming missiles. True?

Not to but in here but (as i mentioned in a prior post), the best way for anyone to get some hits in with a nuke when you are up against an opponent with the ability to shoot down your missles is to lobb more than one at them.

Let the first one detonate just out of range of the enemies guns (18 mile mark) and this will scramble both visual & other sensors types for a few melees, let the next nuke be trialing the first by about 20miles. At High mach speeds of M5+/3600mph+ ((Way over Mach 2 btw since that is as slow as a jet, rockets are much faster, IE: the X-51 hypersonic cruise missile is designed to hit Mach 5)) it could clear that distance in 20 seconds, then in 10 more seconds it would hit the ship! That way it would det at about 10 miles out so that the Full blast radius would blanket the the ship one more time, thus fragging the ships sensors again, only this time far worse.
This would leave the ship Blind and open to other hypersonic missle (nuke or otherwise) attacks.

A simple and Great tactic that can be pulled with low yeild nukes.

Killer Cyborg wrote:The only reason the CSN has been furnished with nukes is to deter Splugorth/Atlantis aggression, and to provide Navy vessels with the capacity to sink enormous ships such as the US Ticonderoga (20,000 MDC), Horune Dream Ships (20,000 MDC), and Splugorth Sea Skimmers (30,000 MDC).

So the very nukes your even talking about are all on CS Naval ships ..

Which means their being launched from over 1,000 miles away .. more then within the range of getting picked up by the naruni star ship .. and if their able to pick them up .. their able to track them .. and shoot them down.

That is only with the main ships abilities .. that does in fact not include the ships compliment of "Additional Vehicles" ..

I'm sorry KC, but It looks more an more like your CS Nuke theory is even less an less apt to being able to hit the Naruni star ship.

At any rate .. the Ship has an MDC Value of 160'000 !! One of the CS's biggest nukes does 3d4x100 MD .. The fact of the matter is that the CS will not be able to put enough of them on target to do anything serious ..

Before the Ship can shoot down the missiles .

Steeler49er wrote:
Let the first one detonate just out of range of the enemies guns (18 mile mark) and this will scramble both visual & other sensors types for a few melees, let the next nuke be trialing the first by about 20miles. At High mach speeds of M5+/3600mph+ ((Way over Mach 2 btw since that is as slow as a jet, rockets are much faster, IE: the X-51 hypersonic cruise missile is designed to hit Mach 5)) it could clear that distance in 20 seconds, then in 10 more seconds it would hit the ship! That way it would det at about 10 miles out so that the Full blast radius would blanket the the ship one more time, thus fragging the ships sensors again, only this time far worse.
This would leave the ship Blind and open to other hypersonic missle (nuke or otherwise) attacks.

A simple and Great tactic that can be pulled with low yeild nukes.

That would be a great tactic ..

If not for the 44 Spit Fire Attack ships .. who can literally just reach a ceiling higher then that of anything in the CS military and park themselves up there for even FURTHER .. radar tracking ability .. and up to the second intel on what the CS is sending in.

Sure the plan you just mentioned would *possibly* enable other nukes to get threw .. but if there were at least 4 Spit Fire's up doing what I said .. it would not trick the Naruni .. in the least ..

Basically they would be able to do exactly what sat's do now .. only at a higher/faster range ..

Thats not even taking into account the Spit Fire's themselves .. launching their missiles at the nukes and taking them out either ... And let's not forget .. Naruni has the tech to make every single missile they launch a smart missile enabled enough to track and hunt their targets ..

No way does the CS land more then a couple of their nukes against the ship .. which in effect will not be enough to do anything to the ship.