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csbioborg wrote:he does not wear the armor all the time

KLM wrote:I do not see it as a great problem: any planetary goverment (or major corporation, private army, etc) can
muster enough power to intercept and kill a CK - or at least make him/her to run for his/her life.

Rhomphaia wrote:Mystic Knights have a real good chance. Effective energy immunity will force a CK to close range, so two of the major CK advantages (flight and energy blasts) are negated with one stone.

Plus, keep in mind that the MKs have a tendency to wield swords. Magic swords. Magic swords with all sorts of nasty little effects like life draining.

Rhomphaia wrote:Mystic Knights have a real good chance. Effective energy immunity will force a CK to close range, so two of the major CK advantages (flight and energy blasts) are negated with one stone.

Plus, keep in mind that the MKs have a tendency to wield swords. Magic swords. Magic swords with all sorts of nasty little effects like life draining.

Rhomphaia wrote:

The Beast wrote:

Rhomphaia wrote:Mystic Knights have a real good chance. Effective energy immunity will force a CK to close range, so two of the major CK advantages (flight and energy blasts) are negated with one stone.

Plus, keep in mind that the MKs have a tendency to wield swords. Magic swords. Magic swords with all sorts of nasty little effects like life draining.

IIRC, the energy blasts from a CK are cosmic energy, which effect the MK the same as magic enery does.

Where is this stated in the rules? In the books I have, there is nothing linking cosmic energy with magic energy. I was forced in a game to come up with a judgment call on this and I still stick to my decision that it is a form of radiation/light and therefore subject to damage reduction that affects both, but if that damage reduction affects only one, then it works normally.

Quote me the book and page number where cosmic energy works like magic energy and when I look it up, I will reverse my decision. As it stands without a quotation, your statement is an opinion.

Rhomphaia wrote:Not being snide in this, but is there a place where it does give a definitive definition of cosmic energy in the same way we know "magic" and "normal" energy? I am curious now because cosmic energy seems to be an anomaly. Even phase weapons are given more treatment, to my knowledge.

Rhomphaia wrote:A Mystic Knight's energy blasts use PPE, therefore I judge that they are magical in nature.

Max™ wrote:So, what other options sound good for Fallen Knights besides Mind Melter/Ley Line Walker or the witch/priests?

Angado wrote:One coalition ranger plus demolition skill.

One case of micro fusion grenades.

One cosmo knight

One sign with writing in a variety of languages "Only the virtuous may possess the strength of the forge which lies within"


One remote detonator, one pair of binoculars...


Just a thought

DhAkael wrote:what... really, seriously?
This debate is STILL going on?
here's a REAL good question...WHY would you want to fight a cosmo-kannigit?
If you are the GM; you say "hammer beats knight...end of line. Roll up a new PC."
If you are a player...Why are you trying to kill a cosmo knight? (unless you're playing a diabloic PC, in which case, well... GOOD LUCK!)

steve652 wrote:I read and reread the cosmo knight occ...and I keep racking my brain as to what could fight them in atmosphere so far I got ancient dragons(maybe) greater demons (again maybe) power armor(not really) what if any scenario could one actually lose?

Specter wrote:A Nightlord rifted in from Nightbane?

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Specter wrote:A Nightlord rifted in from Nightbane?

Nightlords have basically nothing BUT energy powers.

Giant2005 wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Specter wrote:A Nightlord rifted in from Nightbane?

Nightlords have basically nothing BUT energy powers.

Yes but they have great control over it. They can choose what form of energy they blast, CKs are vulnerable to Kinetic Energy.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Giant2005 wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Specter wrote:A Nightlord rifted in from Nightbane?

Nightlords have basically nothing BUT energy powers.

Yes but they have great control over it. They can choose what form of energy they blast, CKs are vulnerable to Kinetic Energy.

Sorry, Kenetic energy blast is the one kind they can't arbitrarily pick.

Carl Gleba wrote:

Lord Z wrote:I'll limit my answer to something that a CK is likely to actually encounter.

Any City Rat who gets his hands on a rune weapon with the Soul Drinker ability can kill a CK in a single hit and a failed saving throw. Just casually walk up to an unsuspecting CK and stab her. Even one point of damage makes the target suspectable to the soul drinking. Since Splugorth create rune weapons, I suspect that many a CK have been targeted in this way. You only have to fight the CK if he makes his first saving throw.

Using the new options in Rifter #53, Soul Drinker weapons aren't that uncommon anymore. Even Least Rune Swords can have this ability.

Quick note, guys -- Rifter #0.1 is still accepting articles if I can get the accompanying U.M.F. this month. We have a couple of Rifts Earth articles lined up, but we don't have anything representing the Three Galaxies nor other dimension books yet.

Said city rat still needs to draw blood in order for a soul drinker to take a soul. Of course it all depends on the GM on what value the CK M.D.C. is hit points and how much it takes to get to those M.D. hit points.

DBX wrote:Sea Inquisitor

Svartalf wrote:

Rhomphaia wrote:Mystic Knights have a real good chance. Effective energy immunity will force a CK to close range, so two of the major CK advantages (flight and energy blasts) are negated with one stone.

Plus, keep in mind that the MKs have a tendency to wield swords. Magic swords. Magic swords with all sorts of nasty little effects like life draining.

You joking?
a) what prevents the CK from packing a gravity rifle that would obviate the need to melee.

b) a mystic knight's specialty is energy attacks that will take forever to batter down the knight's armor

c) I sure hope that the mystic guy packs magic net or something like that, because in melee, he's gonna get clobbered even if he packs a phase sword... because, you know, it's not like everybody had the cred to just go by a life drain sword at the nearest sploog market.

Rhomphaia wrote:

Svartalf wrote:Actually, I disagree with you on that. The whole schtick of the MK is its affinity with mundane energy, as shown by its ability to recharge all kinds of devices.
Its blasts are just mundane energy blasts identical to those of an ordinary weapon, not spells or TW device. an ordinary plasma rifle charged up by a MK doesn't fire magical bolts, neither does the knight when he just fires away, unless he actually casts a spell.

That is your opinion and that is fine, as long as you acknowledge the fact that it is your opinion, like I did.

Rhomphaia wrote:

The Beast wrote:IIRC, the energy blasts from a CK are cosmic energy, which effect the MK the same as magic enery does.

Where is this stated in the rules? In the books I have, there is nothing linking cosmic energy with magic energy

Tor wrote:Short of an ambush with an Annihilation sphere (or a level 10 000 Call Lightning cast by Nxla), the only magic energy high enough tier to do notable damage to them would be UWW ships.

eliakon wrote:

Tor wrote:Short of an ambush with an Annihilation sphere (or a level 10 000 Call Lightning cast by Nxla), the only magic energy high enough tier to do notable damage to them would be UWW ships.

The write up for the cosmo-knight says that they take normal damage from magic spells. It even helpfully points out that they are totally impervious to fire, EXCEPT magic fire. Which would suggest that magic damage is NOT reduced by 100 (otherwise its not a vulnerability). So any spell is a good one to use on them. (I would recommend debuffs rather than direct damage, but that's just me.)

eliakon wrote:The write up for the cosmo-knight says that they take normal damage from magic spells. It even helpfully points out that they are totally impervious to fire, EXCEPT magic fire. Which would suggest that magic damage is NOT reduced by 100 (otherwise its not a vulnerability). So any spell is a good one to use on them. (I would recommend debuffs rather than direct damage, but that's just me.)

Tor wrote:

eliakon wrote:The write up for the cosmo-knight says that they take normal damage from magic spells. It even helpfully points out that they are totally impervious to fire, EXCEPT magic fire. Which would suggest that magic damage is NOT reduced by 100 (otherwise its not a vulnerability). So any spell is a good one to use on them. (I would recommend debuffs rather than direct damage, but that's just me.)

I'm not implying that magic damage would get reduced.

I'm just pointing out that when you have sonic flight and minute-MDC-regen and 500 MDC, it's going to take a very heavy hit to take the guy out before he can flee and come back 100% in a couple minutes to take your next barrage. Or just pot-shot from high-altitude using the ridiculous range of his cosmic blasts or weapon throws.

Tor wrote:If you could immobilize them and then reign down damage, sure. Short of ambushing with a carpet of adhesion while they happen to be walking (something they'd probably only do in civilian disguise) I don't know how to accomplish that, would a magic net even prevent them from flying off?

I guess if you could seal them inside a room it could work.

Most mages just don't seem like they could out-gun a knight. Even a 10th level mage against a 1st level knight barely breaks even.

Tor wrote:

Rhomphaia wrote:

The Beast wrote:IIRC, the energy blasts from a CK are cosmic energy, which effect the MK the same as magic enery does.

Where is this stated in the rules? In the books I have, there is nothing linking cosmic energy with magic energy

I do remember hearing this rumor, I don't remember if it got confirmed, might've been based on some FAQ online or in Rifter. Am also interested in this.

Also interested if cosmic weapons would qualify as magic weapons.

the blast/weapon clarification is important to know who they can harm

Tor wrote:Not liking Cosmo-Blasts being able to take out vamps, I'd rather an in-your-face cosmic-stake approach.

Shang Li wrote:1% of a few of the big "planet buster" size beams (the Xd6x1k and up ones) are still going to wear a cosmo knight down. Even the "big" guns on cruisers can eventually do the job (kinda like a basic laser pistol vs a dragon, but possible with enough volume).

There's a reason CK's don't go getting in fist fights with warships & naval fleets (I do however consider CK vs fighter to be "dog" fighting - especially if one or the other is wolfen) and that reason isn't often concern about colateral damage.

Even if only the biggest, meanest energy blasters will damage a cosmo night, they can still do the job. Anyone think the TGE would hesitate for a moment to vaporise some Invinceable Guardsmen (and around 1/2 the moon under him) by focusing EVERY particle beam in the fleet on the building the CK just walked into? (not to mention the GR-guns & missiles, no kill like over kill)


In a 1 on 1, her'es my top 3 contenders

1. a veritech fighter - even if the surprise of having a fighter transform to fist fight him doesn't slow the CK down, the veritech can compete with a CK both in the air, and on the ground.

Result: CK wins (more MDC & lack of ammo issues) after an epic battle where the Veritech's versatility enable it to fight the CK on the ground and in the air (breifly).

2. a phase ghost fighter - there's just so much here in the phase ghost's favor it's not even funny, phase weapons, phase teleport, phase fields, the list goes on.

Result: Fighter wins after a long, drawn out fight, using a combination of teleportation and it's phase beamer to overcome the CK's ennergy resistance & superior MDC

3. A promethian "Second stager" - really one of these guys against a CK is possibly a CK's worst nightmare. The second stage Promethian has the MDC to engage in a prolonged fight, and the phase powers/spells & ppe supply to mop the fight up pretty quick.

Result: Promethian uses phase powers to force the Cosmo Knight into causing "unacceptable" levels of collateral damage (phasing through a wall makes a decent sheild) while slowly wearing down the CK with phase blasts.


And as a truely extreme example........

4. Big Frackin Rock. Moon, orbital station, asteroid, comet, whatever..... You have a projectile with enough mass & velocity to create an Extinction Level Event, if not crack the planet - now you just have to manage to actually hit the CK, a near miss is going to be mostly energy damage rather than kinetic.

Result: Due to a miscalculation made the month before the fight, the de-orbited colony station misses the Cosmo Knight by 5 mile. The colonists in the station all die, the blast and firestorms set off by the impact kill everything on that hemisphere, and global cooling proceeds to kill of the rest..... CK vows to bring down this villain by whatever means it takes. (And eventually falls due to violating the code.)