Strength and Damage in Rifts!!

[cchopps]

Yeah, always though it very weird that a magic-engorged setting like Rifts Earth has weaker SN P.S. than HU2

IMO, it is because HU is suppose to be more like a comic book or cartoony. You want characters in tights throwing loaded 18-wheeler fueler tanks around.

Rifts is.... a little more gritty and for some people "realistic" though I know that is a dumb word to use.

It is a setting thing and not linked to the magic level of the dimension. More so just like a dimensional rule. I imagine that if characters from Rifts or Beyond the Supernatural went to HU it would be like "Last Action Hero."

Just like supernatural beings going to Rifts Earth and enjoying their new almost invulnerable status, I see the same supernaturals going to the HU world and almost equally enjoying their ridiculous strength. It would be great to see Armageddon Unlimited touch on that.

C. Chopps

[The Baron of chaos]

Yeah, always though it very weird that a magic-engorged setting like Rifts Earth has weaker SN P.S. than HU2

IMO, it is because HU is suppose to be more like a comic book or cartoony. You want characters in tights throwing loaded 18-wheeler fueler tanks around.

Rifts is.... a little more gritty and for some people "realistic" though I know that is a dumb word to use.

It is a setting thing and not linked to the magic level of the dimension. More so just like a dimensional rule. I imagine that if characters from Rifts or Beyond the Supernatural went to HU it would be like "Last Action Hero."

Just like supernatural beings going to Rifts Earth and enjoying their new almost invulnerable status, I see the same supernaturals going to the HU world and almost equally enjoying their ridiculous strength. It would be great to see Armageddon Unlimited touch on that.

C. Chopps

Do you understand that the weird thing is the damage rate, in persepective, do not change(consider that in S.D.C. universe do not exist M.D.C.); only the weight lifting change. And is weird. Even more weird since the old "do supernatural damage because is supernatural in nature" and "M.D.C. is due magic environment" do not work anymore, since in Splicer setting, completely without any form of Magic whatsoever, Supernatural PS exist and Megadamage too.
And again the even bigger paradox is the HU, while being more comic book like bear more "verisimiltude"(I prefer this word over "realism", expecially in setting where people launch volley of nuclear missile, dodge with psionic force field and can counter throwing an fiery plasma spheres, hoping that that will be enough to pierce the few inches thik armor that is as tough as a battleship). One of main problem of many Megadamage setting is WHY and HOW punches can do KINETIC Megadamage. At least HU give one reasoo on why the different strength do more damage, they are a completely different strength that allow great lifting strength. Fair enough. In other setting things are not as clear. The low 50 lbs per PS point is nice in a setting like Nightbane(BTW 'Banes in HU settign got their strength equal to SH PS....UH? WHAT?) but in M.D.C. is confusing.
A rail gun does megadamage because of the Mach speed. Why a ROBOT punch does Megadamage then? And a Dragon? And a Mutant? And why a rock fallign on you does SO little damage then? And why many SDC punches do never do Megadamage when if simultaneous?
Kinetic damage in Megadamage setting is THAT confusing.
More thant a person shed tears of frustration and sadness over the argument.

[Killer Cyborg]

Still not seeing any relevance.

The spell, Superhuman Strength gives someone supernatural P.S., while the Titan Juicers are pumped with drugs to gain the supernatural P.S., and it lasts longer than the spell, and till they expire. There are beings with supernatural P.S. that are limited compared to those beings that are naturally created to have it.

So you think it's reasonable for drugs to make somebody magic, because spells can make people magic.
Okay. Have fun with that logic.

S.D.C. P.S. = S.D. melee weapons = S.D.C. attacks.
M.D.C. P.S. = M.D. melee weapons = M.D.C. attacks.
Robots and Power Armor P.S. = M.D. melee weapons = Psionic attacks (Pilot inside it, similar to how the brain is inside the body).
Supernatural P.S. = M.D. melee weapons = Magic attacks.

Uh-huh.
Looks like gibberish.

Because it's not based in character class in the first place.

Whoever said the individual must be exactly the same as the other individuals in the same class?

Nobody, and I don't know how you think that sentence fits into the conversation.

Same with every other skill in existence. Nothing exists in a vacuum.
But that doesn't affect anything that I've said, nor any point that I've made.

But your argument brought up climbing and arm wrestling, in the first place. *shrugs*

Because in the Palladium system, if you're defaulting a skill, you roll percentile dice under the appropriate attribute.
If you don't know what that means, then feel free to ask some questions.
If you DO know what that means, then you should understand that it doesn't matter whether or not other attributes are involved in climbing or arm wrestling; they're both situations where strength is the most important factor, and would be used as the appropriate attribute.
OR, if you don't think so, then substitute ANY SKILL THAT YOU THINK STRENGTH WOULD BE THE APPROPRIATE ATTRIBUTE FOR, and once again try to answer the question of how it would be resolved between people of the different strength categories, and try to figure out why a supernatural creature with a much higher level of strength (carrying capacity and damage) would have a smaller chance of success in such a default than a normal human who happens to have a numerically higher PS attribute.

More and more people are just dismissing you as a troll and/or lunatic, and putting you on Ignore, but so far I'm undecided.
But it's stuff like all the dodging and the word-salad you're tossing here that makes it hard for anybody to take you seriously.

Correction: you never noticed such inconsistencies.

Correction again: there might have been a misinterpretation on your part.

Correction: No, there might not.

[Killer Cyborg]

Just like supernatural beings going to Rifts Earth and enjoying their new almost invulnerable status, I see the same supernaturals going to the HU world and almost equally enjoying their ridiculous strength.

I see them more likely to be confused at why they can lift a lot more, but there punches are hundreds of times weaker than before.


"What the.... why can't I punch through something as flimsy as a brick wall!? This sucks!"

[Damian Magecraft]

Because in the Palladium system, if you're defaulting a skill, you roll percentile dice under the appropriate attribute.

Now I understand that this is the official rule. (never did like it.)
I default to the base percentage (no bonuses not even IQ) with the caveat that certain skills cannot be attempted without training (like surgery).

Couple that with standardizing the multipliers (Only one set of multipliers instead of the 2 to 3 that currently exist) in each Tier of strength and the 4 steps of strength works pretty well. (although I am still playing around with a damage bonus system that I prefer.)

[Killer Cyborg]

Because in the Palladium system, if you're defaulting a skill, you roll percentile dice under the appropriate attribute.

Now I understand that this is the official rule. (never did like it.)
I default to the base percentage (no bonuses not even IQ) with the caveat that certain skills cannot be attempted without training (like surgery).

You mean the base percentage of the skill?
So everybody effectively has every default-able skill at level 1 proficiency, the only penalty being that IF the person has an IQ bonus, it doesn't apply?

[The Baron of chaos]

Just like supernatural beings going to Rifts Earth and enjoying their new almost invulnerable status, I see the same supernaturals going to the HU world and almost equally enjoying their ridiculous strength.

I see them more likely to be confused at why they can lift a lot more, but there punches are hundreds of times weaker than before.


"What the.... why can't I punch through something as flimsy as a brick wall!? This sucks!"

Well yes, that the main pradox problem , as i said.

[MaxxSterling]

You can default skills in this game? Where's it say that at? I've always just played it that unless you have the skill, you are out of luck. Don't recall ever seeing anything about defaulting them to attributes, is it possible I've overlooked it for 15 years? Can someone point me to a book and page # please. Thanks.

[Killer Cyborg]

You can default skills in this game? Where's it say that at? I've always just played it that unless you have the skill, you are out of luck. Don't recall ever seeing anything about defaulting them to attributes, is it possible I've overlooked it for 15 years? Can someone point me to a book and page # please. Thanks.

Unfortunately, I don't believe that it's in the books anywhere.
The question has come up online and (IIRC) at the open house, and the answer was given by Kev and Palladium staffers.

[Killer Cyborg]

So you think it's reasonable for drugs to make somebody magic, because spells can make people magic.
Okay. Have fun with that logic.

Put it this way, supernatural P.S. basically is stronger than extraordinary human P.S. and normal human P.S. It's more of a level of P.S., than where it is classified from.

Meaning that the name has jack-all to do with the function.
WHICH IS MY COMPLAINT.

Your argument is basically taking the position that the supernatural P.S. "must" be from supernatural means. Whereas my argument is simply pointing out that supernatural P.S. is perceived as a level, more than where the origin of the description of the P.S.

Words have meanings. If you don't mean the word, don't use it.

how it would be resolved between people of the different strength categories, and try to figure out why a supernatural creature with a much higher level of strength (carrying capacity and damage) would have a smaller chance of success in such a default than a normal human who happens to have a numerically higher PS attribute.

Let's look back at the throwing object portion of the P.S. attribute, shall we, . . .

Nah. I wasn't asking about throwing.

[Damian Magecraft]

Because in the Palladium system, if you're defaulting a skill, you roll percentile dice under the appropriate attribute.

Now I understand that this is the official rule. (never did like it.)
I default to the base percentage (no bonuses not even IQ) with the caveat that certain skills cannot be attempted without training (like surgery).

You mean the base percentage of the skill?
So everybody effectively has every default-able skill at level 1 proficiency, the only penalty being that IF the person has an IQ bonus, it doesn't apply?

yes. and no.
Yes - every default-able skill is available at its base percentage.
No - not being able to apply your IQ bonus is not the only penalty. (also even if your class says you may have x skill with y bonus to it that as well does not apply.) Situational modifiers also still apply to the attempt.

[Killer Cyborg]

Meaning that the name has jack-all to do with the function. WHICH IS MY COMPLAINT.

Perhaps it is best to just perceive it more as a level, than the origin of the label, so there won't be any confusion.

It's best to get rid of the multiple categories entirely.
Barring that, it would be best to change things back to the original intent, where only supernatural creatures had supernatural PS.
Barring THAT, it would be best for Palladium to change the name of the strength categories to something more appropriate for their new purpose.
Barring THAT, I'm going to complain about it when it comes up.

Words have meanings. If you don't mean the word, don't use it.

Normally words have multiple meanings in their respective definitions. Best to match the meaning that accurately fits to the usage of the word.

What meaning of "supernatural" accurately fits "Takes a lot of drugs?"

Nah. I wasn't asking about throwing.

I think the incorporation of the physical skills presented a more complex variable into the equation, in which it is much easier to solve by just the P.S. attribute means itself.

You toss a mean word salad.

[Killer Cyborg]

I think we've reached the point of agreeing to disagree, Ryu.

[TechnoGothic]

I like the Different Strength types myself. I dont want a One Strength Table/chart deal.
That would be like using GURPS or HERO too much. I dislike their single chart. Why ? It makes playing really strong characters too powerful to use in games.

Could you Imagine if the whole Strength chart used Carry x10 and Lift x20 ??
A Character who could Lift 10 tons would have what a PS 500 ?? No thanks. I dont even want to see what the damage tables would look like at those levels of Strength.

[Killer Cyborg]

I like the Different Strength types myself. I dont want a One Strength Table/chart deal.
That would be like using GURPS or HERO too much. I dislike their single chart. Why ? It makes playing really strong characters too powerful to use in games.

Odd. I find that the multiple tables presented make really strong characters too powerful.
Every 1d6 MD is the equivalent of about 1 stick of TNT, and the current strength tables go up to 10x that on a normal punch.
Really sit and think about how strong somebody would have to be in order to punch that hard.

(Also, the 10x is really conservative, because explosives damage in Palladium usually uses the formula of "every doubling of explosives equals 1.5x damage, so that'd be quite a bit more than 100 sticks of TNT at that level)

Could you Imagine if the whole Strength chart used Carry x10 and Lift x20 ??
A Character who could Lift 10 tons would have what a PS 500 ?? No thanks. I dont even want to see what the damage tables would look like at those levels of Strength.

They'd look about the same as they do now, only you'd need a hell of a lot higher strength in order to inflict the kind of damage presented.
Instead of needing a Supernatural PS of 60, you'd need a PS of 6000 if you wanted your punches to be the equivalent of 100+ sticks of TNT.

[The Baron of chaos]

I like the Different Strength types myself. I dont want a One Strength Table/chart deal.
That would be like using GURPS or HERO too much. I dislike their single chart. Why ? It makes playing really strong characters too powerful to use in games.

Odd. I find that the multiple tables presented make really strong characters too powerful.
Every 1d6 MD is the equivalent of about 1 stick of TNT, and the current strength tables go up to 10x that on a normal punch.
Really sit and think about how strong somebody would have to be in order to punch that hard.

(Also, the 10x is really conservative, because explosives damage in Palladium usually uses the formula of "every doubling of explosives equals 1.5x damage, so that'd be quite a bit more than 100 sticks of TNT at that level)

Could you Imagine if the whole Strength chart used Carry x10 and Lift x20 ??
A Character who could Lift 10 tons would have what a PS 500 ?? No thanks. I dont even want to see what the damage tables would look like at those levels of Strength.

They'd look about the same as they do now, only you'd need a hell of a lot higher strength in order to inflict the kind of damage presented.
Instead of needing a Supernatural PS of 60, you'd need a PS of 6000 if you wanted your punches to be the equivalent of 100+ sticks of TNT.

Well KC your reasinogn is kinda flawed, in a world where even spoons can deliver the power of 1 TNT. Sure you could say that we are talking about supertechnology and hypermagics, but Superstrength is being a staple of the setting from the start. And is one of the reason why some monsters are an actualy menace. Not everything form the rifts is magical, and even amongst those with magical nature not everyone can cast magic or have psionic(yeah sure like they are of any combat use...) so there must be a reason for them being a menace for humankind, and require those bullying 100+ MDC armro and guns that deliver the destructive power of a 20th centure nuclear warhead. That means they must be tought as tanks and strong as a comic book villain, being able to deliver barehanded the same damage of a railgun.

[Killer Cyborg]

Well KC your reasinogn is kinda flawed, in a world where even spoons can deliver the power of 1 TNT.

Where do they list the damage for spoons?

Sure you could say that we are talking about supertechnology and hypermagics, but Superstrength is being a staple of the setting from the start. And is one of the reason why some monsters are an actualy menace.

Wrong.
Look through the main book, and you won't see the term "Supernatural Strength" anywhere.
What you'll see is mention that supernatural creatures being able to lift/carry more than normal people, but you won't see any tables for Supernatural PS inflicting mega-damage.
Because it didn't.

That didn't come around until CB1, and it was a big mistake when it did happen.

You're probably thinking, "But if supernatural PS didn't inflict MD, why do supernatural creatures inflict that kind of damage in the main book?"
The answer is: "Because they're supernatural."
They're magical creatures that have magic damage effects to their attacks.
That's why ALL vampires (of a type) in VK inflict the exact same amount of damage, no matter what their PS is.
Xiticix, in spite of being supernatural, only inflicted SDC.
Flip to p. 249 of Rifts, and you'll see the section for rolling PS scores for randomly rolled creatures. Notice that there is NO mention of damage or a MD damage bonus based on PS.
Now flip the page and look at the Natural Weapons section.
They list horns, tentacles, bite, claws, tails, and fire breath.
NOT strength of any kind.
You could roll up a supernatural creature with PS 15, or a creature with a PS of 30, and if their main attack was "Clawed Hands: 1d6 MD," that's how much damage they'd inflict.
Because Physical Strength was not a factor.
Nor should it have ever been.

Not everything form the rifts is magical, and even amongst those with magical nature not everyone can cast magic or have psionic(yeah sure like they are of any combat use...) so there must be a reason for them being a menace for humankind, and require those bullying 100+ MDC armro and guns that deliver the destructive power of a 20th centure nuclear warhead. That means they must be tought as tanks and strong as a comic book villain, being able to deliver barehanded the same damage of a railgun.

To an extent, you're right.
But it doesn't need to be through physical strength.
And if/when it IS through physical strength, the lift/carry capacity should match the damage that they inflict.
Unless you can think of a very good reason for the discrepancy...?

[The Baron of chaos]

Where do they list the damage for spoons?

In the old, epic, Zombies vs. Vibrospoon was stated ebing 1d4 megadamage. But take it with a grain of salt as is not official.

That didn't come around until CB1, and it was a big mistake when it did happen.

No, it wasn't. It was needed to make the growth of Rifts universe possible. Otherwise a good 90% of weapons, armors and spells need to be slightly nerfed down in order to make the entire "humakind struggle to survive" making any sense whatsoever.(and even so, I sometimes puzzle how gigantes had not replaced the Panda as WWF symbol, considering how low powered they are. And they are MDC beings with supernatural PS!)

The answer is: "Because they're supernatural."

Oh really? And the dinosaurs?
Also Supernatural, while originally meant for magical creature, is technically something different, more beyon the natural
And frankly if you don't like superstrong aliens and mutants then we have nothing to talk about sir...

Because Physical Strength was not a factor.
Nor should it have ever been.

ah but speed, speed and weight do remain a factor, yes?
Now this is somethign inherent palladiumsystem that always irkened me(actually common to many RPG) in that Strength, Mass and Speed are not related anyway. While is actually the opposite (Strenght is the abilty to exert a given force, force is related to momentum over time, momentum is Mass per Velocity...).
Agai I understand why in RPG this flaw is kept. Otherwise you would have dragon flying a Mach Speed delivering crazy amoung of HtH damage. Better tone down.
Of course still trying to make them a viable menace, consdiering that a Coalition Soldier in Armor (100+ MDC) can now withstand many firebreath and lot of MD physical punishment before being killed. Bahh

And if/when it IS through physical strength, the lift/carry capacity should match the damage that they inflict.
Unless you can think of a very good reason for the discrepancy...?

I think would be more sensible adopting the HU Strengths, and would fit better also the pics of many creature exerting their strength

_____________________________________

On an addition different note. Since we are talking about Super Strength how do you manage to do some of the following feats

Impale a Solider in full eba MDC armor, let's say 100 MDC, with a long MDC tube through the abdomen

Breake a Soldier in full MDC armor,a s above, or an MDC being, in half, literally in half, with the back fo head touching the heels.

Rip someone's, in MDC armor or being an MDC being, arm off and beat them to death with it

Break someone, in MDC armor or being an MDC being, in half and shoving the head insider the bottom of his body

Geld someone, ripping the crotch area off

using someone as a clubbing weapon

Crusching an Head, wearing an MDC helmet or belonging to an MDC being, like an orange

Chopping an head off

Ripping an head off

Turning an head 180°

Turnign a torso 180°

Ramming thumbs in the temple of the head till they touch

Smashing an head into floor or walls or armored vehicle

Ripping the spine off

chopping a humanoid sized MDC target in half

chopping a giant humanoid MDC target in half

Using a coalition soldier in full armor to dig through a MDC wall

Bending a boomg gun like pretzel

Curshing a Megadamage gun

Eating a boom gun round(not being shot)

Eating the fingers of a power armor

Shake someone in a EBA armor so much to turn the SDC being inside in marmelade

Do the same to someoen in light power armor

Flying thourgh a building while graplling with an opponent in power armor

Do the same while grappling wiht a dragon

Same as above only sword fightin

Freefalling instead of flying

stopping a running ATV vehicle BAREHANDED

Stopping a running ATV and lifitng it on its side

Using a Dinosasur as clubbing weapon/shield

Breaking/removing the joints(kneecap, of a giant opponent, be it robot vehicle or a giant properly said.

Ramming a MDC bladed weapon in the middle of the head of an opponent (same condition as crushing)

Ram an sam MDC object through the eye of an opponent(same condition as crushing heads)

Headbutting someone to death(the someone in qeustion is either an MDC being or wear an MDC armor)

Headbutting a dinosaur to death

Knocking out a dinosaur with one punch

squeezing a piece of carbon so much to tun it into a diamond

Write poetry on the plates of a MDC armored vehicle barehanded!

Peel armor off form an opponent using only MDC melee weapon, ZORRO STYLE!!

Chopping a gun barrel in half with one single Megadamage melee weapon and looking awesomely nonchalant doing so

Eat MDC inorganic material

make an hole, roughly the size of a fist, on a MDC structure(an armor do count as one)

Making a small hole in an armor and use an MDC straw to literally suck the SDC wearer to death

Now guys lemme hear how do you perform any of those feats.

[Killer Cyborg]

That didn't come around until CB1, and it was a big mistake when it did happen.

No, it wasn't. It was needed to make the growth of Rifts universe possible. Otherwise a good 90% of weapons, armors and spells need to be slightly nerfed down in order to make the entire "humakind struggle to survive" making any sense whatsoever.

That depends entirely upon:
-Which armor, weapons, and spells you're thinking of
-How common you believe Mega-Damage IS in the setting, and who has it.

In the original setting, Mega-Damage was rare. The PCs have it, some NPCs have it, and monsters/demons have it.
Most people didn't.
Even most towns didn't have very much of it.

The CS's main assault rifle, for example, had an SDC setting, because they regularly encountered SDC foes.

The fact that this has slowly changed through power creep doesn't justify the power creep; in fact, it does the opposite.

The answer is: "Because they're supernatural."

Oh really? And the dinosaurs?

They're dinosaurs. They're massive and powerful, so they can inflict massive damage.
(Though they were always way over-powered in my opinion).
Even then, the human-sized dinos could only do SDC damage with their claws, and minor damage with their bite (1d4 MD), which was their most powerful weapon.
Even a 50' tall predator dino only inflicted 2d6 MD with his bite, 1d4 MD with his forearm claws, and 2d6 MD with the claws on his feet.

Also Supernatural, while originally meant for magical creature, is technically something different, more beyon the natural

Not the definition Palladium was going by.

And frankly if you don't like superstrong aliens and mutants then we have nothing to talk about sir...

I don't have a problem with super-strong aliens and mutants.
Where we differ, apparently, is in what we see as constituting "super-strong."
For me, you're super-strong if you can inflict even 1 MD. That's an insane amount of damage.
You could smash a motorcycle with one hit. You could snap padlocks with your bare hands.
You'd be stronger than any human being on the entire planet.

Inflicting 1d6 or more, and you're starting to get beyond the realm of human comprehension.
2 MD would destroy a 10'x10' section of a brick wall.
3 MD would destroy a 10'x10' section of cinder block wall.
4 MD could smash a single-engine airplane to pieces, or a 10'x10' section of reinforced concrete.
5 MD would destroy a cabin cruiser.
6 MD would destroy a military-grade armored car or armored personnel carrier.
11 MD would destroy a 41 ton T-72 Main Battle Tank.
15 MD, and you can destroy an artillery piece.
20 MD, and you've just punched a 747 airliner into ruins.
And so on.

Of course, if MDC is so common in your game world that it's effectively the new standard, that won't be so impressive.
But if that's how you play, you're not playing the setting that Kevin Siembieda wrote.

Because Physical Strength was not a factor.
Nor should it have ever been.

ah but speed, speed and weight do remain a factor, yes?

Not with supernatural creatures, no.
For bots and dinosaurs, yeah, it was probably factored in to the damage, but with them, so was physical strength.

Of course still trying to make them a viable menace, consdiering that a Coalition Soldier in Armor (100+ MDC) can now withstand many firebreath and lot of MD physical punishment before being killed. Bahh

Why is that a problem?
A guy in Plastic Man armor, carrying a Wilk's 320, is the equivalent of a 20th century tank.
Dragons in legend were killed by swords, wielded by guys in simple metal armor.

Why would you expect a dragon to be able to easily destroy a tank?

And if/when it IS through physical strength, the lift/carry capacity should match the damage that they inflict.
Unless you can think of a very good reason for the discrepancy...?

I think would be more sensible adopting the HU Strengths, and would fit better also the pics of many creature exerting their strength

As long as they're inflicting HU damage, I'd be fine with that.

On an addition different note. Since we are talking about Super Strength how do you manage to do some of the following feats

Not entirely sure what you're asking.
Before I go through the list of situations, would you mind clarifying?
Are you asking how realistic I'd find the situation, how I'd handle it GMing Rifts, or how I'd handle it in Rifts using the unified PS table that I posted earlier?
Or something else?

[The Baron of chaos]

As long as they're inflicting HU damage, I'd be fine with that.

Actually, in quite paradox, I think that Megadamage system WOULD FIT BETTER HU more than RIFTS that could work awesomely withing an SDC system. Think about it. In many Comic books and Manga, from what one can see, most characters are MDC being with megadamage power/strength in a SDC setting.

Not the definition Palladium was going by.

But is the definitiion they are going by NOW

Of course, if MDC is so common in your game world that it's effectively the new standard, that won't be so impressive.
But if that's how you play, you're not playing the setting that Kevin Siembieda wrote.

Uh? I think we've read very different sourcebooks, and worldbooks and Dimension books, most with KS name on it.

Why would you expect a dragon to be able to easily destroy a tank?

Because you've then to explain me why the hell people of Rifts eaerth are so scared as hell to leave a COSMIC d-Bag like Karl Prosek tell them how to live?
And again the sword example you did was kinda flawed. The sword is generally magicla, the knight, in the myth, had godly help on his side, and frankly orginal myth dragon(st. George style to be exact) were smaller and quite unimpressive. The one in RPG are more close to GODZILLA level. ANd at that level you EAT tanks and vomit nuclear fire(Oh I still dream of being free to convert godzilla for rifts, or better post a conversion of godzilla for rifts...ehhhh)

Not entirely sure what you're asking.
Before I go through the list of situations, would you mind clarifying?
Are you asking how realistic I'd find the situation, how I'd handle it GMing Rifts, or how I'd handle it in Rifts using the unified PS table that I posted earlier?
Or something else?

Whatever you or anyone else feel appropriate.

[Killer Cyborg]

As long as they're inflicting HU damage, I'd be fine with that.

Actually, in quite paradox, I think that Megadamage system WOULD FIT BETTER HU more than RIFTS that could work awesomely withing an SDC system. Think about it. In many Comic books and Manga, from what one can see, most characters are MDC being with megadamage power/strength in a SDC setting.

I more or less agree with you.
Mega-Damage would fit pretty well in the super-hero universe.

As a side comment:
Think about the origin of Rifts. It came (in part) from Robotech, which (as anime) used more or less the same rules as manga.

Now think about how Robotech (the cartoon) is presented, especially during the Invid Invasion.
Characters are normal humans, more or less, who are completely and utterly outmatched by super-technology if they try to face this technology on their own.
Luckily, they have their own mega-damage equipment and weapons (Cyclone armor), so they can fight mega-damage threats effectively.
But they don't go around wearing their mega-damage gear all the time; they lead a primarily SDC existence, only pulling out the mega-damage gear when it's needed.

By that same token, a LOT of manga and anime works the same way: Most everything is pretty much normal strength and tech, except for the protagonists and their enemies.
They're titans duking it out in a world of fragile humans. The heroes ride into town, hear a scream, see a defenseless person being eaten by a demon, so they suit up (or charge their powers, or twirl around in circles until they're in costume, or whatever powers them up beyond the normal range), then go into battle

This is how the world of Rifts was meant to be.

Not the definition Palladium was going by.

But is the definitiion they are going by NOW

Ah, but it's not. Look up the definition of "Supernatural Being" in the RGMG or RUE.
Even the explanation of Supernatural Strength uses demons as examples and explains that "supernatural beings are NOT human. They are something else. Creatures that defy the laws of physics and draw upon arcane forces and energies (like magic) as part of their inner essence."

Of course, if MDC is so common in your game world that it's effectively the new standard, that won't be so impressive.
But if that's how you play, you're not playing the setting that Kevin Siembieda wrote.

Uh? I think we've read very different sourcebooks, and worldbooks and Dimension books, most with KS name on it.

Yes and no.
MDC is STILL officially uncommon. Most people don't have it.
RUE 346 "Living creatures such as demons, dragons, and other inhuman beings may also have MDC; it represents their physical resistance to Mega-Damage and makes them supremely powerful on Rifts Earth."
RUE 357 "Mega-Damage weapons are still uncommon. It might not seem like it to the player characters, because getting and using such items and battling MDC opponents are all part of the job description. However, to the average person, Mega-Damage items are rare and valuable. The typical SDC town will be 90-98% SDC in its construction. Members of its militia, lawmen and/or some citizens may be the only ones who have one or two MD energy weapons and MDC armor each, plus one or two MDC combat vehicles or giant robots to the entire town; if that. Many communities hire mercs on an as-needed basis, or invite a band of mercenaries and adventurers with Mega-Damage capabilities to retire in their home town and serve as the community's champions and defenders. Some will even pay them for the service. This way the townspeople can go about the everyday necessities of living, and their champions can deal with Mega-Damage threats."
"Perhaps one should think of two modes of life, MDC and SDC. The MDC life is wandering through the wilderness, exploring the world and taking on Mega-Damage threats. [u]Its what sets your character apart- he or she is out of the ordinary."

Most of the stuff in the books is Mega-Damage, [i]but only because the stuff in the books is written for the exceptions, adventurers and soldiers who are out of the ordinary.
Palladium doesn't feel that writing about the average person of Rifts Earth would be any more interesting than writing about the average person in Heroes Unlimited Earth.
IMO, this is a mistake, because it gives the impression to many players and GMs that MDC is common, and leads them to view their characters from this perspective. They feel that the low-end weapons aren't powerful, and the low-end armor isn't strong, when in reality any mega-damage puts you a cut above the majority of the population.

Why would you expect a dragon to be able to easily destroy a tank?

Because you've then to explain me why the hell people of Rifts eaerth are so scared as hell to leave a COSMIC d-Bag like Karl Prosek tell them how to live?

Because the people of Rifts Earth in general don't have mega-damage technology. They're fairly helpless against mega-damage threats.
The Coalition is one of the few powers that has Mega-Damage technology, and until about PA 70 the CS was one of only four groups that possessed the knowledge of how to manufacture mega-damage equipment. Since then, the technology has been leaking into more and more people's hands, but most places still just don't have the technology.

And again the sword example you did was kinda flawed. The sword is generally magicla, the knight, in the myth, had godly help on his side, and frankly orginal myth dragon (st. George style to be exact) were smaller and quite unimpressive.

I see where you're coming from with the magic sword. Beowulf arguably had one, Sigurd arguably had one, and there were probably some others as well.
On the other hand, the Lampton worm was killed with pointy armor, and the Wawel Dragon was killed by poisoned bait.
The hydra was mostly killed using conventional weapons, though Hercules did apparently need a special sword from Athena to take off it's one immortal head.
I don't know enough about dragons to really come up with more.

On the other hand, how many of these dragon-slayers had magic armor?
Of the ones that died, how many died from being ripped in half, armor and all?
Most knights/heroes that I can remember dragons killing died from fire or poison.

The one in RPG are more close to GODZILLA level.

The average dragon in Rifts are hatchlings that are 20' long.
I can't think of any dragons that approach Godzilla in size.

[The Baron of chaos]

Most of the stuff in the books is Mega-Damage, [i]but only because the stuff in the books is written for the exceptions, adventurers and soldiers who are out of the ordinary.
Palladium doesn't feel that writing about the average person of Rifts Earth would be any more interesting than writing about the average person in Heroes Unlimited Earth.
IMO, this is a mistake, because it gives the impression to many players and GMs that MDC is common, and leads them to view their characters from this perspective. They feel that the low-end weapons aren't powerful, and the low-end armor isn't strong, when in reality any mega-damage puts you a cut above the majority of the population.

Yes I think that's was the problem. Is like the skewed perspective someone could get reading superhero comic books. They lead to think that superhuman are freaking everywhere(and that new york city is sort of nexus mundi). Truth is that in all comic book universes, superhuman(counting also aliens and supertech users), are never more thant 5% of world population.
Infact one thing I found unnerving on Rifts earth is how the tech using armies of Rifts earth seem to have endless resources, and can get micro nuclear power cell like is nothing. Would be nice, at least once a while in a book, pointing out that low end tech is, more or less, easily available to Tech powermongers like Coalition but TOP stuff like a SAMAS power armor is not as easy, and they probably prefer to lose the life of a grunt than losing a full working SAMAS armor.
I lked Triax TWo because address how much effort Triax and NGR put in their offensive and tech devlopment(was not nothing they could come within few months, took years!) and that some of the new cool toys are prototypes not exatlcy widely available. Same line I like how, of all books, Rifts:russia tend to give more space than usual to people who do not have lot of MDC stuff.

Ah, but it's not. Look up the definition of "Supernatural Being" in the RGMG or RUE.
Even the explanation of Supernatural Strength uses demons as examples and explains that "supernatural beings are NOT human. They are something else. Creatures that defy the laws of physics and draw upon arcane forces and energies (like magic) as part of their inner essence."

Not necessary "magical". Using the Comic book refernec eI've used so far, is interesting to notice one thing.
While superhuman strength and resistance are possible due purely biological and physical factors, for the true high end Supernatural PS you need to have a sort of energy "doping". Be it using your body to channel immense nuclear energies, conver solar energy into a powerfull Telekinetical force field, or just switch psionically the the carbon atoms of your body with extradimansion Megadamage substance atoms, or even creating a chi kombat aura and channel it into a sphere on palm of your hand, you know there is somethingelse othern than just being strong and tough.
These two factor seem a consequence for Supernatural creatures to survive this powerful reality ebnding energy process(soemthign like this was said about hulk on a message board, Banner grow with additionjal muscles and mass because his body adapt to survive the nuclear energy process in act withins his cellular structure, he would be superstrong but die from it otherwise).
Seem we are on same line here. Biology can give you megadamage bodies and some level of augmnted strenght(judging by Splicer setting, completely non magical, the best a biological organism can get is Robotic/superhuman, With Supernaturla Strength requiring a more extensive tweaking and more intense energy requirement) but if you want SN strength well you need ot channel lot of ISP/PPE or energy(the energy leech R.C.C. come to mind as proof of this case)

The average dragon in Rifts are hatchlings that are 20' long.
I can't think of any dragons that approach Godzilla in size.

Adult Dragons can be 65 ft long and 20 to 30 feet high with a 100 ft wingspan, perhaps not quite godzilla like but quit big, and they are as tough as a battleship, where ass hatchling are just as tough as a glitterboy. This not counting extra magical powers(could a dragon cast Giant spell on himself by the way?)

[Shark_Force]

just thought i'd point out, even 5% of the population having superpowers (or whatever) is huge.

think about it. i live in a city with about 800,000 people in it. that would mean (assuming standard proportion, which may or may not be likely) 40,000 super powered beings. and that's not counting suburbs, other nearby cities, etc. in your average school class, you'd have 1-2 super powered beings. that is actually really, really common, all things considered. in order for superbeings to be really rare, you'd have to have well less than 1%. probably even less than 1/10th of a percent (which is 1 in 1000, which means that there would still 800 in my city alone... still seems like a bit much, but not *quite* as ridiculous).

but something as common as 5%? that would mean that there would probably be several of them in a single apartment building.

edit: spell correction.

[Killer Cyborg]

A long time ago, I decided that everybody on Earth in the Marvel Universe either was a superhero or supervillian, or knew one, or worked for one.
Not just from the sheer number of heroes and villains, but the insane amount of henchmen.

[TechnoGothic]

Why would you expect a dragon to be able to easily destroy a tank?

I honestly would not want them to. Which is why I've turned to the SDC settings for Strength amounts, Damages, etc... (HU2, NB, PBFrpg, etc..)

I think would be more sensible adopting the HU Strengths, and would fit better also the pics of many creature exerting their strength

I agree. HU2 Strength charts fit the games much better.

As long as they're inflicting HU damage, I'd be fine with that.

Agreed. More or Less.
I have Extraordinardy PS, Superhuman PS inflict more than standard damages though.
Supernatural as is, nothing changed. Superhuman PS does Supernatural PS -10ps on the chart. Extraordinary PS does Supernatural PS -20ps on the chart. So a Extraordinary PS 50 does damage like a Supernatural PS 30 damages. A Superhuman PS 50 does Supernatural PS 40 damages.

[TechnoGothic]

As long as they're inflicting HU damage, I'd be fine with that.

Actually, in quite paradox, I think that Megadamage system WOULD FIT BETTER HU more than RIFTS that could work awesomely withing an SDC system. Think about it. In many Comic books and Manga, from what one can see, most characters are MDC being with megadamage power/strength in a SDC setting.

Not the definition Palladium was going by.

But is the definitiion they are going by NOW

Of course, if MDC is so common in your game world that it's effectively the new standard, that won't be so impressive.
But if that's how you play, you're not playing the setting that Kevin Siembieda wrote.

Uh? I think we've read very different sourcebooks, and worldbooks and Dimension books, most with KS name on it.

Why would you expect a dragon to be able to easily destroy a tank?

Because you've then to explain me why the hell people of Rifts eaerth are so scared as hell to leave a COSMIC d-Bag like Karl Prosek tell them how to live?
And again the sword example you did was kinda flawed. The sword is generally magicla, the knight, in the myth, had godly help on his side, and frankly orginal myth dragon(st. George style to be exact) were smaller and quite unimpressive. The one in RPG are more close to GODZILLA level. ANd at that level you EAT tanks and vomit nuclear fire(Oh I still dream of being free to convert godzilla for rifts, or better post a conversion of godzilla for rifts...ehhhh)

Not entirely sure what you're asking.
Before I go through the list of situations, would you mind clarifying?
Are you asking how realistic I'd find the situation, how I'd handle it GMing Rifts, or how I'd handle it in Rifts using the unified PS table that I posted earlier?
Or something else?

Whatever you or anyone else feel appropriate.

I disagree. I've used MDC Superpowers as written. Its too much crapola to be worth it.
The SDC setting method is much better for all the settings actually.
Super-Tech using Natural AR rules is enough to give them the Super-tech outlook and feel.

[TechnoGothic]

As a side comment:
Think about the origin of Rifts. It came (in part) from Robotech, which (as anime) used more or less the same rules as manga.

Now think about how Robotech (the cartoon) is presented, especially during the Invid Invasion.
Characters are normal humans, more or less, who are completely and utterly outmatched by super-technology if they try to face this technology on their own.
Luckily, they have their own mega-damage equipment and weapons (Cyclone armor), so they can fight mega-damage threats effectively.
But they don't go around wearing their mega-damage gear all the time; they lead a primarily SDC existence, only pulling out the mega-damage gear when it's needed.

By that same token, a LOT of manga and anime works the same way: Most everything is pretty much normal strength and tech, except for the protagonists and their enemies.
They're titans duking it out in a world of fragile humans. The heroes ride into town, hear a scream, see a defenseless person being eaten by a demon, so they suit up (or charge their powers, or twirl around in circles until they're in costume, or whatever powers them up beyond the normal range), then go into battle

This is how the world of Rifts was meant to be.

Not the definition Palladium was going by.

But is the definitiion they are going by NOW

Ah, but it's not. Look up the definition of "Supernatural Being" in the RGMG or RUE.
Even the explanation of Supernatural Strength uses demons as examples and explains that "supernatural beings are NOT human. They are something else. Creatures that defy the laws of physics and draw upon arcane forces and energies (like magic) as part of their inner essence."

Of course, if MDC is so common in your game world that it's effectively the new standard, that won't be so impressive.
But if that's how you play, you're not playing the setting that Kevin Siembieda wrote.

Uh? I think we've read very different sourcebooks, and worldbooks and Dimension books, most with KS name on it.

Yes and no.
MDC is STILL officially uncommon. Most people don't have it.
RUE 346 "Living creatures such as demons, dragons, and other inhuman beings may also have MDC; it represents their physical resistance to Mega-Damage and makes them supremely powerful on Rifts Earth."
RUE 357 "Mega-Damage weapons are still uncommon. It might not seem like it to the player characters, because getting and using such items and battling MDC opponents are all part of the job description. However, to the average person, Mega-Damage items are rare and valuable. The typical SDC town will be 90-98% SDC in its construction. Members of its militia, lawmen and/or some citizens may be the only ones who have one or two MD energy weapons and MDC armor each, plus one or two MDC combat vehicles or giant robots to the entire town; if that. Many communities hire mercs on an as-needed basis, or invite a band of mercenaries and adventurers with Mega-Damage capabilities to retire in their home town and serve as the community's champions and defenders. Some will even pay them for the service. This way the townspeople can go about the everyday necessities of living, and their champions can deal with Mega-Damage threats."
"Perhaps one should think of two modes of life, MDC and SDC. The MDC life is wandering through the wilderness, exploring the world and taking on Mega-Damage threats. [u]Its what sets your character apart- he or she is out of the ordinary."

Most of the stuff in the books is Mega-Damage, [i]but only because the stuff in the books is written for the exceptions, adventurers and soldiers who are out of the ordinary.
Palladium doesn't feel that writing about the average person of Rifts Earth would be any more interesting than writing about the average person in Heroes Unlimited Earth.
IMO, this is a mistake, because it gives the impression to many players and GMs that MDC is common, and leads them to view their characters from this perspective. They feel that the low-end weapons aren't powerful, and the low-end armor isn't strong, when in reality any mega-damage puts you a cut above the majority of the population.

Why would you expect a dragon to be able to easily destroy a tank?

Because you've then to explain me why the hell people of Rifts eaerth are so scared as hell to leave a COSMIC d-Bag like Karl Prosek tell them how to live?

Because the people of Rifts Earth in general don't have mega-damage technology. They're fairly helpless against mega-damage threats.
The Coalition is one of the few powers that has Mega-Damage technology, and until about PA 70 the CS was one of only four groups that possessed the knowledge of how to manufacture mega-damage equipment. Since then, the technology has been leaking into more and more people's hands, but most places still just don't have the technology.

And again the sword example you did was kinda flawed. The sword is generally magicla, the knight, in the myth, had godly help on his side, and frankly orginal myth dragon (st. George style to be exact) were smaller and quite unimpressive.

I see where you're coming from with the magic sword. Beowulf arguably had one, Sigurd arguably had one, and there were probably some others as well.
On the other hand, the Lampton worm was killed with pointy armor, and the Wawel Dragon was killed by poisoned bait.
The hydra was mostly killed using conventional weapons, though Hercules did apparently need a special sword from Athena to take off it's one immortal head.
I don't know enough about dragons to really come up with more.

On the other hand, how many of these dragon-slayers had magic armor?
Of the ones that died, how many died from being ripped in half, armor and all?
Most knights/heroes that I can remember dragons killing died from fire or poison.

The one in RPG are more close to GODZILLA level.

The average dragon in Rifts are hatchlings that are 20' long.
I can't think of any dragons that approach Godzilla in size.

MDC = MANGA Damage Capacity


Seriously now. We can get the Manga/Anime feel using the SDC system though.
The real extreme manga examples of course would be harder, but so is the Higher levels of Comic books in general harder to contend with in most RPG systems.

[Killer Cyborg]

The average dragon in Rifts are hatchlings that are 20' long.
I can't think of any dragons that approach Godzilla in size.

Adult Dragons can be 65 ft long and 20 to 30 feet high with a 100 ft wingspan, perhaps not quite godzilla like but quit big, and they are as tough as a battleship, where ass hatchling are just as tough as a glitterboy. This not counting extra magical powers(could a dragon cast Giant spell on himself by the way?)

Gozilla ranges from about 164' to 328' tall.
Even 30' tall is still less than 1/5th of his height.

[The Baron of chaos]

Gozilla ranges from about 164' to 328' tall.
Even 30' tall is still less than 1/5th of his height.

Yeah, Thats why I love rifter 44. I am saying here, we need BIGGER DRAGONS!!! So far the only Megaverse monster of decent frightening size are demon planets. (pehraps a demon galaxy won't hurt).

MDC = MANGA Damage Capacity


Seriously now. We can get the Manga/Anime feel using the SDC system though.
The real extreme manga examples of course would be harder, but so is the Higher levels of Comic books in general harder to contend with in most RPG systems.

Eh don't know, perhaps some low powered starting level, like the first few number of any manga shohen series, yes, but fter 13th takobon YOU NEED to pass to Megadamage, and roughyl toward the end you had to rely on gigadamage, since at some point any manga hero is able to destroy a planet, if not using Galaxies as shurinken

I disagree. I've used MDC Superpowers as written. Its too much crapola to be worth it.
The SDC setting method is much better for all the settings actually.
Super-Tech using Natural AR rules is enough to give them the Super-tech outlook and feel.

I disagree with the disagreement. MDC superpowers work actually smooth, but I agree that SDC work fine too, most of the time

A long time ago, I decided that everybody on Earth in the Marvel Universe either was a superhero or supervillian, or knew one, or worked for one.
Not just from the sheer number of heroes and villains, but the insane amount of henchmen.

just thought i'd point out, even 5% of the population having superpowers (or whatever) is huge.

Weeeell, actually I did a mistake here, was meant to be 0,5% not 5%, but the sourc eis unreliable actually, as no one can agree exactly the amount. The marvel Wiki on of most complete database of Marvel Universe characters list over 20000 characters(including parallele dimensions version of same character). So is not exactly a large slice of world population.

[Killer Cyborg]

Weeeell, actually I did a mistake here, was meant to be 0,5% not 5%, but the sourc eis unreliable actually, as no one can agree exactly the amount. The marvel Wiki on of most complete database of Marvel Universe characters list over 20000 characters(including parallele dimensions version of same character). So is not exactly a large slice of world population.

It's not just the number of people with super-powers and/or tights; it's the support staff.
How many thousands of people work for AIM? For HYDRA? SHIELD?
How many people are employed by Stark Industries? The Maggia? Watchdogs?
What's the population of Latveria? Genosha? Wakanda?

[The Baron of chaos]

Weeeell, actually I did a mistake here, was meant to be 0,5% not 5%, but the sourc eis unreliable actually, as no one can agree exactly the amount. The marvel Wiki on of most complete database of Marvel Universe characters list over 20000 characters(including parallele dimensions version of same character). So is not exactly a large slice of world population.

It's not just the number of people with super-powers and/or tights; it's the support staff.
How many thousands of people work for AIM? For HYDRA? SHIELD?
How many people are employed by Stark Industries? The Maggia? Watchdogs?
What's the population of Latveria? Genosha? Wakanda?

Actually iw as just talking about actually superpowered persons. Support staff is irrelevant generally.(I like to consider them funny guys who end p on wrong side of , well, pretty muhc everything. With the worst ebing the HAMMER agents, really they got lowest stick possible.(between risk of getting killed by a psycho within your ranks and psycho outside your ranks...Heeeey I notice similarity with Coalition Soldier life here..well at least coalition soldier do not risk of being devoured by its own teammates, unless he work at Lone Star)

[Killer Cyborg]

Actually iw as just talking about actually superpowered persons.

Yup. But I was talking about more than that:
"A long time ago, I decided that everybody on Earth in the Marvel Universe either was a superhero or supervillian, or knew one, or worked for one.
Not just from the sheer number of heroes and villains, but the insane amount of henchmen."

[The Baron of chaos]

Actually iw as just talking about actually superpowered persons.

Yup. But I was talking about more than that:
"A long time ago, I decided that everybody on Earth in the Marvel Universe either was a superhero or supervillian, or knew one, or worked for one.
Not just from the sheer number of heroes and villains, but the insane amount of henchmen."

Much on same line everyone in Star Wars universe had meet or dealed with Han Solo, or how pretty much everyone in DC universe had meet and worked with or against Superman and Batman(when they aren't part of a lantern corp...oh for the chronicle ***** you Hal Jordan!!)

[Killer Cyborg]

Actually iw as just talking about actually superpowered persons.

Yup. But I was talking about more than that:
"A long time ago, I decided that everybody on Earth in the Marvel Universe either was a superhero or supervillian, or knew one, or worked for one.
Not just from the sheer number of heroes and villains, but the insane amount of henchmen."

Much on same line everyone in Star Wars universe had meet or dealed with Han Solo, or how pretty much everyone in DC universe had meet and worked with or against Superman and Batman(when they aren't part of a lantern corp...oh for the chronicle ***** you Hal Jordan!!)

Good ones.

[TechnoGothic]

Well my personal dislike of the MDC method comes from a simple fact with RIFTS type settings.
If used as Written setting wise. Everyone needs or requires MDC weapons, Magics, abilties to survive the opponets of the setting.

I'd rather just set up everything in the SDC method. Give Super-tech Armor a Natural AR to represent the super-toughness. People dont get vaporized "just because" or require Anti-Tank level weapons or powers to get by on.

But thats just my opinion.

[Killer Cyborg]

Well my personal dislike of the MDC method comes from a simple fact with RIFTS type settings.
If used as Written setting wise. Everyone needs or requires MDC weapons, Magics, abilties to survive the opponets of the setting.

Except that's not really true.
You can roll up SDC enemies all you want without any trouble, and there's a fairly unlimited number of MDC enemies you can roll up that are vulnerable to certain kinds of SDC attacks.

[The Baron of chaos]

Well my personal dislike of the MDC method comes from a simple fact with RIFTS type settings.
If used as Written setting wise. Everyone needs or requires MDC weapons, Magics, abilties to survive the opponets of the setting.

Except that's not really true.
You can roll up SDC enemies all you want without any trouble, and there's a fairly unlimited number of MDC enemies you can roll up that are vulnerable to certain kinds of SDC attacks.

Or as another words:
YOUR SKILLS (Lore expecially)! USE THEM YOU IDIOT!!

Seriously I noticed tha tif you use the propers skill, and with enough resource to prepare, you can deal with pretty much any opponent short of really tough ones(the sort that in D&D would be for level 20 up/Epic level challenge)
Sure there are oponenet that truly need a vibrosword or laserbalst to take down. Well Duh, most PC OCC are expected to be adventurers, the sort that are amongst the few who carry some level of such weaponry
Much like Indiana Jones is the only one who carry a gun in all India/Middles east(poor swordsmen) and kickass whipmaster, him and the nazis(but the nazis in Indy movie have less aim and luck than stormtroopers in Star Wars....must be something about Harrison Ford), the company of the rig is mad eof the TOP warrior of each kingdom, and those not good at fighting have magic weapon to back up(and then there is Gandalf who can take down a balrog all alone, just because), or The avengers that are the MIghtites hero of their world(well generally, not always, had been period where they were severly lacking in Might...), or for Manga example Dragon ball, at the begin, was about A Crazy genial girl with super tech, a indestrucible boy with unbelivable Martial art prowness and a pig that can shapechange. Not exactly run of the mill peasants..
Heroes are expecte to be or better equipped or enough powerful skilled with deal with exception menaces on daily basis
(except yamcha, the most pwned character of entire manga and anime world...well him and shinji Hikari, but with shinji we are in an entire new world of mind*****ery and abuse..)

[keir451]

Well my personal dislike of the MDC method comes from a simple fact with RIFTS type settings.
If used as Written setting wise. Everyone needs or requires MDC weapons, Magics, abilties to survive the opponets of the setting.

Except that's not really true.
You can roll up SDC enemies all you want without any trouble, and there's a fairly unlimited number of MDC enemies you can roll up that are vulnerable to certain kinds of SDC attacks.

Or as another words:
YOUR SKILLS (Lore expecially)! USE THEM YOU IDIOT!!

Seriously I noticed tha tif you use the propers skill, and with enough resource to prepare, you can deal with pretty much any opponent short of really tough ones(the sort that in D&D would be for level 20 up/Epic level challenge)
Sure there are oponenet that truly need a vibrosword or laserbalst to take down. Well Duh, most PC OCC are expected to be adventurers, the sort that are amongst the few who carry some level of such weaponry
Much like Indiana Jones is the only one who carry a gun in all India/Middles east(poor swordsmen) and kickass whipmaster, him and the nazis(but the nazis in Indy movie have less aim and luck than stormtroopers in Star Wars....must be something about Harrison Ford), the company of the rig is mad eof the TOP warrior of each kingdom, and those not good at fighting have magic weapon to back up(and then there is Gandalf who can take down a balrog all alone, just because), or The avengers that are the MIghtites hero of their world(well generally, not always, had been period where they were severly lacking in Might...), or for Manga example Dragon ball, at the begin, was about A Crazy genial girl with super tech, a indestrucible boy with unbelivable Martial art prowness and a pig that can shapechange. Not exactly run of the mill peasants..
Heroes are expecte to be or better equipped or enough powerful skilled with deal with exception menaces on daily basis
(except yamcha, the most pwned character of entire manga and anime world...well him and shinji Hikari, but with shinji we are in an entire new world of mind*****ery and abuse..)

I agree KS has said that our characters are to be larger than life heros, so even if I play a Scholar or Sceintist I equip them w/MDC weapons and armor, but it's their skills that truly win the day. If I'm running a Soldier then he/she is equipped w/MD power armor and weapons, but in these cases they typically go up against MD creatures and power armor.
In my settings Dragons CAN easily destroy a tank, esp. when the head of the dragon is the size of the Space Shuttle, and the body is nearly the length of a modern battleship (and he's just as well armored too).

[Mercdog]

In my games it's the weapon damage + the Supernatural/Robotic Punch damage or the weapon damage + the P.S. attribute bonus, whichever has the highest damage potential. This typically means that for creatures with Supernatural P.S., the Punch damage is added, while for everyone else, the P.S. attribute bonus is added.
The Supernatural punch damage is NEVER combined with the P.S. Attribute bonus except for a very rare case like Thor's hammer and belt. (Though I have been toying with the idea of allowing it for gargantuan creatures at least 50+ feet tall or so to reflect their great mass.)

So, at least in my games, the damages would be;
Teenager with P.S. 10: 1D4x10 + nothing.
Godling with P.S. 40: 1D4x10 + 5D6
(and Robot with P.S. 30: 1D4x10 + 15.)

I recently went over my RGMG and I realized that I misinterpreted the rule that I based my formula on. So I've since revised it to this:

For beings with Supernatural (or Robotic) P.S. using melee weapons, compare the weapon damage vs. the punch damage. Take the higher damage rating and add the P.S. damage bonus from the attributes table.

So if the godling in the above example was using a normal sabre that inflicted 2D6 damage, he would inflict 5D6+25 damage, since his punch damage is greater than the weapons capability. But if using a magic weapon capable of 1D4x10 damage, the damage inflicted would be 1D4x10+25 as the weapon can inflict more damage than the godlings punch.

So basically, the only reason a being with supernatural P.S. has for using a weapon is the ability to benefit from his P.S. attribute's damage bonus.