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Rogue_Scientist wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:And in this case, the official rules are clear: some powers heal MDC, and some do not.

Even a strict "just what the book says, no common sense allowed!" interpretation may still allow psychics the ability to heal MDC.

People always forget about Psychic Surgery. The equivalent of "professional hospital treatment". Unless there's a specific ruling that says MDC beings cannot be healed in any tech-based hospitals anywhere in the Megaverse, then they can be healed by Psychic Surgery.

Except that Psychic Surgery does not heal hit points or SDC at all, so saying it can heal MDC "by extension" would not be correct. Psychic Surgery could handle what it says it can broken bones, removal of foreign objects, and being below zero, and it could do those things on MDC beings. It doesn't say what happens to non-MDC beings in the case of below zero, so we don't know what happens to MDC beings in that case.

I've never seen rules for standard healing under the term "professional hospital treatment", but there many are things I've missed before. Could you please post a reference?

In any event, all three categories of major psionic powers are, in general, non-MDC (unless the power somehow specifically states otherwise). If you want to talk about "logic", then this is completely logical when you read over all of these powers because they don't talk about MDC, but super psionic powers do talk about MDC. The divide is like night and day. Supers have it, majors don't. This could be an argument that Bio-Regeneration (Super) should heal MDC, but it doesn't actually say that. A house-rule looks quite reasonable on that one, but a change would be a house-rule.

I have made plenty of house-rule adjustments to powers and spells. What is the difficulty? Just do it.

RainOfSteel wrote:

Rogue_Scientist wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:And in this case, the official rules are clear: some powers heal MDC, and some do not.

Even a strict "just what the book says, no common sense allowed!" interpretation may still allow psychics the ability to heal MDC.

People always forget about Psychic Surgery. The equivalent of "professional hospital treatment". Unless there's a specific ruling that says MDC beings cannot be healed in any tech-based hospitals anywhere in the Megaverse, then they can be healed by Psychic Surgery.

Except that Psychic Surgery does not heal hit points or SDC at all, so saying it can heal MDC "by extension" would not be correct. Psychic Surgery could handle what it says it can broken bones, removal of foreign objects, and being below zero, and it could do those things on MDC beings. It doesn't say what happens to non-MDC beings in the case of below zero, so we don't know what happens to MDC beings in that case.

I've never seen rules for standard healing under the term "professional hospital treatment", but there many are things I've missed before. Could you please post a reference?

In any event, all three categories of major psionic powers are, in general, non-MDC (unless the power somehow specifically states otherwise). If you want to talk about "logic", then this is completely logical when you read over all of these powers because they don't talk about MDC, but super psionic powers do talk about MDC. The divide is like night and day. Supers have it, majors don't. This could be an argument that Bio-Regeneration (Super) should heal MDC, but it doesn't actually say that. A house-rule looks quite reasonable on that one, but a change would be a house-rule.

I have made plenty of house-rule adjustments to powers and spells. What is the difficulty? Just do it.

Page 288 RUE Recovery of hit points is wher you'll find the answer for non professional versus professional treatment

jaymz wrote:

Anthar wrote:

Athos wrote:Very, very slowly at the rate of 100 SDC to 1 MDC

That would be the strict book interpretation anyways...

Incorrect, as stated earlier by someone it is written in CB:1 that MDC heals at a rate equal to HPs.

Which, iirc, is 2 per day with or without medical treatment since again, iirc, it is the amount of sdc that increases with medical treatment.

Yes, on page 354 of RUE, it clearly states 2 hp and 4 sdc a day with non-professional treatment, and with professional treatment, it would double to 4 hp per day and 6 sdc after the first 2 days, so yuppers, you would be healing 2 MDC a day, just like hp's

Rhomphaia wrote:

Dr. Doom III wrote:Psionics powers that heal HP and SDC heal the same amount in MDC as HP.

Is this found in the rules anywhere? That is the main issue at hand. A definitive "yes" or "no" would be the acceptable answer. I have some resources I am looking in right now.

I'm pretty sure there's an example somewhere. I don't care to look unfortunately but if I were so inclined the first place I'd look is Atlantis.

SkyeFyre wrote:Because it came up earlier in the topic: Rifts Conversion Book 1 Unrevised, page 22 under Converting an S.D.C. creature into a mega-damage structure:

"Mega-damage is healed/restored the same way as a human regains hit points[,] from medical treatment and rest."

Excellent find, though you missed a comma.

This indicates that medical treatment does indeed increase healing for MDC beings, and that Psychic Surgery should therefore increase the normal healing rate of MDC beings, which is 2d6 MDC per day.

Unfortunately, unless somebody can find the actual official rates of increase in healing, we have to house rule the degree to which their healing is increased, but that seems a small matter.

Good work.

Funny. In the RUE, it mentions something like MDC functioning like HPs then to look at the combat section for more info on healing, then the combat section mentions nothing.

Anthar wrote:Funny. In the RUE, it mentions something like MDC functioning like HPs then to look at the combat section for more info on healing, then the combat section mentions nothing.

Anthar - Battle injuries and Recovery page 354.

KC - should the recovery rate be (if it is the same as hit points) be 2 mdc per day non medical treatment or 2 on day one and 4 every day after that with medical treatment since the text quoted specifies mdc beings regain mdc like humans regain hit points not hit points and sdc? Thus Psyichic Surgery would make medical treatment recover 4 on day one and 8 every day after that?

I am assuming you are saying mdc being recover at a rate of 1d6 per day normally.

jaymz wrote:

Anthar wrote:Funny. In the RUE, it mentions something like MDC functioning like HPs then to look at the combat section for more info on healing, then the combat section mentions nothing.

Anthar - Battle injuries and Recovery page 354.

KC - should the recovery rate be (if it is the same as hit points) be 2 mdc per day non medical treatment or 2 on day one and 4 every day after that with medical treatment since the text quoted specifies mdc beings regain mdc like humans regain hit points not hit points and sdc? Thus Psyichic Surgery would make medical treatment recover 4 on day one and 8 every day after that?

I am assuming you are saying mdc being recover at a rate of 1d6 per day normally.

Normally, according to p. 21 of CB1, the line directly after the one describing MDC healing in the same ways as HP/SDC:
"Physical MDC is normally restored at a rate of 2d6 per day."

There's nothing I know of describing how medical treatment accelerates the process, so there's no real way to tell what the recovery rate should be for MDC beings undergoing medical treatment.

We'd just have to guess what the rate of increase would be for MDC under medical treatment.

Killer Cyborg wrote:

jaymz wrote:

Anthar wrote:Funny. In the RUE, it mentions something like MDC functioning like HPs then to look at the combat section for more info on healing, then the combat section mentions nothing.

Anthar - Battle injuries and Recovery page 354.

KC - should the recovery rate be (if it is the same as hit points) be 2 mdc per day non medical treatment or 2 on day one and 4 every day after that with medical treatment since the text quoted specifies mdc beings regain mdc like humans regain hit points not hit points and sdc? Thus Psyichic Surgery would make medical treatment recover 4 on day one and 8 every day after that?

I am assuming you are saying mdc being recover at a rate of 1d6 per day normally.

Normally, according to p. 21 of CB1, the line directly after the one describing MDC healing in the same ways as HP/SDC:
"Physical MDC is normally restored at a rate of 2d6 per day."

There's nothing I know of describing how medical treatment accelerates the process, so there's no real way to tell what the recovery rate should be for MDC beings undergoing medical treatment.

We'd just have to guess what the rate of increase would be for MDC under medical treatment.

unless of course the revised cb1 removed that information

Dr. Doom III wrote:

Rhomphaia wrote:

Dr. Doom III wrote:Psionics powers that heal HP and SDC heal the same amount in MDC as HP.

Is this found in the rules anywhere? That is the main issue at hand. A definitive "yes" or "no" would be the acceptable answer. I have some resources I am looking in right now.

I'm pretty sure there's an example somewhere. I don't care to look unfortunately but if I were so inclined the first place I'd look is Atlantis.

I started on a list, and after what I've found so far, I'm inclinded to agree with Doomsy on this one.

The Beast wrote:I started on a list, and after what I've found so far, I'm inclinded to agree with Doomsy on this one.

What have you found so far?

Killer Cyborg wrote:

The Beast wrote:I started on a list, and after what I've found so far, I'm inclinded to agree with Doomsy on this one.

What have you found so far?

I'm up to above 30 total so far, and I'm not including gods, godlings, demi-gods, supernatural intelligences, elementals, demons, deevils, and any creature found in CB1 (either version) or Dark Conversions. I'm trying to stick to Rifts-specific creatures. Including them would likely double what I got right now. Also I might have missed one or two in DB4. Only requirment I had was that the RCC/OCC in question had the ability to choose the healing powers in question or were given them in the description, and had MDC instead of SDC & HP.

Also you brought up a good point early on, about creatures having the powers in SDC realms, who find it useless when in MDC realms. During the course on research so far, I remembered there was a time when Palladium was only converting creatures from SDC realms to MDC ones. To my knowledge, CB2 was the first where they started listing the SDC/HP for MDC creatures when in SDC realms, but they aren't consistant in that until books released in the last decade or so. It doesn't make sense for Palladium to print that a RCC has a power that's useless in the setting the RCC was writen to be used in when at the time of the printing Palladium wasn't concerned with coverting from MDC realms to SDC realms.

Can some call Kevin?

Saitou Hajime wrote:Can some call Kevin?

seems kinda pointless. assuming he answers, he'll likely tell us to rule whichever way works best in our games.

he's not big on giving official answers.

Shark_Force wrote:

Saitou Hajime wrote:Can some call Kevin?

seems kinda pointless. assuming he answers, he'll likely tell us to rule whichever way works best in our games.

he's not big on giving official answers.

I was thinking the same thing when I read that. Kevin doesn't even use the rules as is himself from what's been told of the few times he does play now.

Shark_Force wrote:

Saitou Hajime wrote:Can some call Kevin?

seems kinda pointless. assuming he answers, he'll likely tell us to rule whichever way works best in our games.

he's not big on giving official answers.

To restate that slightly: Kev is not big on giving strict answers. He likes everthing to be flexible and adaptable. Hence the loose rules of the Megaverse.

Okay, this is what I have so far:

I2 = assimilator

CB2 = naga, daityes, norse giants

merc = lost one

SB3 = azverkan

SB4 = malestorm maker

DB1 = entrancer, the host

DB2 = 2nd stage promethians, draconids, seljuk, royal kreeghor, silhouette

DB3 = kreeghor witch, invinsible guardsmen

DB4 = dreadmasters, nazeer, rithe

DB5 = faustian, qidian, star elves, anvil dwarves, space minotaur, zebuloid, altess

WB1 = xibalbans, vernulians

WB2 = kreewarr carapace, hawrk-duhk, shaydar spherian, zembahk

WB3 = chaing-ku, cernum mystic, petal thing

WB4 = phoenixi, ramen, crocodillian

WB6 = loa, divine loa, sekhmet, gatherers

WB7 = dragon rays, lorica wraith, servants of the deep, pneuma-bioform dolphin, pneuma-bioform killer whale, pneuma-bioform whale, sea titans, naut'yll

WB8 = kumo-mi

WB9 = the ancient, pucara red giant, fallam, ojahee, men-rall, larhold barbarians

The blue highlighted one start off as normal SDC creatures, and become MDC creatures after a year of service for the Lord of the Deep. That is why they are noted as such.

The two that are highlighted in red are the only two I have found to specifically list that the psychic form of bio-regeneration heals as MDC (different amounts for each).

I'm stopping here. If yall want me to continue looking up MDC creatures with the psychic healing powers in question, yall need to pay me. That's 57 different creatures so far, and I deliberatly left several creatures as they were converted from the other games. If I were to include the ones I mentioned as avoiding a few posts back, I feel like I'd be above 80 in total right now, and I still have about 19 more world books to go through (Juicer Uprising doesn't have any, and I'm not going to bother checking CS War Campagin and Triax 2), and the SoT series. My guess is at the rate I was going, there'd be around 100 creatures that fit the bill. Most of them have the option of picking the powers in question, however, a few specificlly mentioned they came with one or more of those powers. I did not include Healing Touch as a power, due to the fact you can't use it on yourself.

So again, I'm inclined to agree with Doom that the psychic powers in question can heal MDC creatures.