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Lenwen wrote:all you guys trying to do the +100% to base .. are using a house rule ..

The spells say double speed .. that is what it does. Anything other then doubling the speed (even if its already been doubled a couple times) is a house rule.

And can not be justified by anything other then a house rule.

The Book of Magic says otherwise.

Mack wrote:

Lenwen wrote:all you guys trying to do the +100% to base .. are using a house rule ..

The spells say double speed .. that is what it does. Anything other then doubling the speed (even if its already been doubled a couple times) is a house rule.

And can not be justified by anything other then a house rule.

The Book of Magic says otherwise.

can you cite me a refrence regarding speed Mack ?

Page 22.

Mack wrote:Page 22.

says nothing about speed. only stacking strength.

Lenwen wrote:

Mack wrote:Page 22.

says nothing about speed. only stacking strength.

Lenwen wrote:

Mack wrote:Page 22.

says nothing about speed. only stacking strength.

If you want to house-rule that speed is somehow different than strength, go for it.

Mack wrote:

Lenwen wrote:

Mack wrote:Page 22.

says nothing about speed. only stacking strength.

If you want to house-rule that speed is somehow different than strength, go for it.

speed is not strength mack ..

Unless I am wrong .. they are completely two dif stats .. are they not ?

ok, fine. find the rule where it says that speed increasing spells stack at all.

Lenwen wrote:

Mack wrote:

Lenwen wrote:

Mack wrote:Page 22.

says nothing about speed. only stacking strength.

If you want to house-rule that speed is somehow different than strength, go for it.

speed is not strength mack ..

Unless I am wrong .. they are completely two dif stats .. are they not ?

But they are both attributes.
Got anything that says that one attribute-boosting spell behaves differently than another attribute-boosting spell, based on what attribute is being boosted?

Killer Cyborg wrote:

Lenwen wrote:

Mack wrote:

Lenwen wrote:

Mack wrote:Page 22.

says nothing about speed. only stacking strength.

If you want to house-rule that speed is somehow different than strength, go for it.

speed is not strength mack ..

Unless I am wrong .. they are completely two dif stats .. are they not ?

But they are both attributes.
Got anything that says that one attribute-boosting spell behaves differently than another attribute-boosting spell, based on what attribute is being boosted?

The spell itself ..

Reading the spell itself clearly states it doubles the speed.

It does in fact not state .. "Double the stat's base speed only"

It does in fact state .. "Doubles speed"

Anything other then that is a home rule you guys are all trying to use a house rule .. because of the strength stacking issue in BoM .

The two are not the same stat. You roll for each seperatly .. meaning one does not effect the other .

And before anyone tries to make the connection from the strength to the speed stacking ..

Ask yourself this .. why does it not state that this rule applies to ALL .. stacking magic ?

In the very strength multiplier section you guys are claiming .. show's something that it clearly .. does not.

I for one know that the creator's at Palladium are smart enough to know that if they set up a set of rules to govern their system this way or that .. they would be smart enough to know to include something that "This applies to all stacking spells"

So the very fact that the strength stacking write up .. does not implicitly state this goes for all stacking spells .. there in lies the folley of any logic of attempting to try to say that the strength rule does apply to the speed stat as well.

When clearly .. nothing of that nature is in the entire write up of the strength stacking ..

Lenwen wrote:The spell itself ..

Reading the spell itself clearly states it doubles the speed.

It does in fact not state .. "Double the stat's base speed only"

It does in fact state .. "Doubles speed"

Anything other then that is a home rule you guys are all trying to use a house rule .. because of the strength stacking issue in BoM .

The two are not the same stat. You roll for each seperatly .. meaning one does not effect the other .

And before anyone tries to make the connection from the strength to the speed stacking ..

Ask yourself this .. why does it not state that this rule applies to ALL .. stacking magic ?

In the very strength multiplier section you guys are claiming .. show's something that it clearly .. does not.

I for one know that the creator's at Palladium are smart enough to know that if they set up a set of rules to govern their system this way or that .. they would be smart enough to know to include something that "This applies to all stacking spells"

So the very fact that the strength stacking write up .. does not implicitly state this goes for all stacking spells .. there in lies the folley of any logic of attempting to try to say that the strength rule does apply to the speed stat as well.

When clearly .. nothing of that nature is in the entire write up of the strength stacking ..

again, do you even have a rule that specifically states that spells which boost speed stack *at all*?

as it stands, we have explicit rules for how one type of spell is supposed to stack. we have no rules at all for how other spells are supposed to stack, to my knowledge.

as the rules are generally assumed to tell you what you *can* do, rather than trying to tell you all the things you *can't* do (which would be impossible), that would leave us with the assumption that the spells don't stack at all.

in the absence of rules that tell us explicitly how they stack, there are really only 2 reasonable ways to read this: either they don't stack at all (because no rule says they do, and the rules can't be expected to cover everything you can't do), or they should stack using the same concept as the existing rules for a similar situation.

you can, of course, rule however you like for your own games. but don't pretend like your way is the only correct and true way when it clearly isn't.

Lenwen wrote:

Mack wrote:

Lenwen wrote:

Mack wrote:Page 22.

says nothing about speed. only stacking strength.

If you want to house-rule that speed is somehow different than strength, go for it.

speed is not strength mack ..

Unless I am wrong .. they are completely two dif stats .. are they not ?

I'm not aware of any source that says they respond differently to magic. Can you cite one?

Lenwen wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:

Lenwen wrote:speed is not strength mack ..

Unless I am wrong .. they are completely two dif stats .. are they not ?

But they are both attributes.
Got anything that says that one attribute-boosting spell behaves differently than another attribute-boosting spell, based on what attribute is being boosted?

The spell itself ..

Reading the spell itself clearly states it doubles the speed.

It does in fact not state .. "Double the stat's base speed only"

It does in fact state .. "Doubles speed"

You could make the same argument for spells/effects that double PS.
But since you'd be wrong in that case, what makes you think that you'd be right in this case?

The two are not the same stat.

But they ARE both attributes; they are of the same type.

You roll for each seperatly

And you roll for them in the same way, because they are of the same type.

Ask yourself this .. why does it not state that this rule applies to ALL .. stacking magic ?

Because the question being answered was only about Physical Strength.

Now ask yourself, if things worked differently for different attributes, why does it not state this in the BoM?

So everyone else is working with a concept called precedence while Lenwen is working with assumption.

KC isn't there other precedence in Palladium with handling multipliers? I could have sworn somewhere for damage that if you use an attack that does double damage like say a jump kick or attack from behind and then you get a critical it is x3 NOT x4. So then there would be two precedences where PB handles multipliers that way while there are no examples of remultiplying. For damage it is logically easier to think of because for each multiplier 1x is for the base damage. x2 for attack from behind = x1 base damage + x1 for behind bonus. x2 for critical strike = x1 for base damage + x1 for critical bonus. So x4 for attack from behind = x1 base damage + x1 for behind bonus + x1 for base damage + x1 for critical bonus... Wait a second, there are two base damages in there and you didn't attack twice! So it makes more sense for x3 = x1 base damage +x1 for behind bonus + x1 for critical bonus.

Trust me guys...Lenwen is posting for the sake of posting to see his post count go up. He will argue with you about the color of the sky. Dont fall into the trap.

Kagashi wrote:Trust me guys...Lenwen is posting for the sake of posting to see his post count go up. He will argue with you about the color of the sky. Dont fall into the trap.

That and he likes confrontation.

Mack wrote:Don't get personal. Stay on topic or don't post.

k MCP