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Lenwen wrote:How would a dominator ship do against a mechanoid mother ship?

Hard to say.
Question is, does the mother ship get to launch it's (how many BILLION?) Wasp drones before the Dominator starts unleashing compressed anti-matter hellfire?

I put it down to...
"Roll for intatiative!"

DhAkael wrote:

Lenwen wrote:How would a dominator ship do against a mechanoid mother ship?

Hard to say.
Question is, does the mother ship get to launch it's (how many BILLION?) Wasp drones before the Dominator starts unleashing compressed anti-matter hellfire?

I put it down to...
"Roll for intatiative!"

Well when you factor in that plasma shield that pretty much rules out Fighters and wasp drones for a given amount of time. I think the dominator will do well untill the mechanoids pick up on the pattern and the way the Ship defends itself. For the dominator it would be better to make hit and run tactics. But face to face it will most likely Take a fall head on.

Hi there!

Chronicle wrote:
I think the dominator will do well untill the mechanoids pick up on the pattern and the way the Ship defends itself.

I do not remember what psionic powers the Mechanoids have, but I think they can pick up the pattern rather
quickly.

Adios
KLM

I think it might be able to escape on fairly well. The mechanoid mother ships are far bigger than a dominator ship. Planets can appear as small besides them. A group of dominators might have a chance against a mothership.

Aramanthus wrote:I think it might be able to escape on fairly well. The mechanoid mother ships are far bigger than a dominator ship. Planets can appear as small besides them. A group of dominators might have a chance against a mothership.

Or just wait until they're close to a sun to snack on it and blow it up! I seem to remember that Dominators can blow up suns, a Mechanoid mothership might not be able to handle something like a super-nova event at point blank range.

Good question. I suppose if you lure it close and then detonate the sun. Might work as long as your ship can escape the blast wave.

My solution is simpler; I Rift in the SDF-1 or SDF-3 or Marduk Flagship and waste the Dominator from 200,000+ miles out w/ a main particle beam cannon that (according to canon) dsetroys everything in it's path regardless of MDC and inflicts 1d4 x 1 million MDC to a planet. *BWAHAHAHAHAHA!*

keir451 wrote:My solution is simpler; I Rift in the SDF-1 or SDF-3 or Marduk Flagship and waste the Dominator from 200,000+ miles out w/ a main particle beam cannon that (according to canon) dsetroys everything in it's path regardless of MDC and inflicts 1d4 x 1 million MDC to a planet. *BWAHAHAHAHAHA!*

You forget the main weapons on the dominator ship is comparable. and it would take multiple hits due to it being considered a planet sized object

Chronicle wrote:

keir451 wrote:My solution is simpler; I Rift in the SDF-1 or SDF-3 or Marduk Flagship and waste the Dominator from 200,000+ miles out w/ a main particle beam cannon that (according to canon) dsetroys everything in it's path regardless of MDC and inflicts 1d4 x 1 million MDC to a planet. *BWAHAHAHAHAHA!*

You forget the main weapons on the dominator ship is comparable. and it would take multiple hits due to it being considered a planet sized object

Actually IIRC the Dominators ship isn't THAT big, it's the size of a small moon(about 30 mi. in diameter) and The rules DO say "destroys EVERYTHING in it's path REGARDLESS of MDC"! I know they didn't have the Dominator ships in mind when the SDF-1 was statted up, but it works for me!
As for comaprable range, well that gets "technical", as technically the main gun on the Macross 2 ships is a light speed weapon and could honestly go all the way to the Sol system limit, the "range" is more likely the range of the sensors IMO. But that's just how I handle things, not how everyone else thinks.
Of course if I want to do it via "RAW" then I rift in 4-6 ships of the Flagship class and vaporize it.

Kill the Dominator's phone-sanitizer slaves...then let nature take its course...

keir451 wrote:My solution is simpler; I Rift in the SDF-1 or SDF-3 or Marduk Flagship and waste the Dominator from 200,000+ miles out w/ a main particle beam cannon that (according to canon) dsetroys everything in it's path regardless of MDC and inflicts 1d4 x 1 million MDC to a planet. *BWAHAHAHAHAHA!*

That canon is only within the Robotech universe, just because it's said to destroy everything there doesn't mean in the rest of the multiverse there aren't things that can survive it or have defenses that would protect against it. You're talking a setting where the impact of magic isn't considered after all, nor that of things like gods and alien intelligences.

Nightmask wrote:

keir451 wrote:My solution is simpler; I Rift in the SDF-1 or SDF-3 or Marduk Flagship and waste the Dominator from 200,000+ miles out w/ a main particle beam cannon that (according to canon) dsetroys everything in it's path regardless of MDC and inflicts 1d4 x 1 million MDC to a planet. *BWAHAHAHAHAHA!*

That canon is only within the Robotech universe, just because it's said to destroy everything there doesn't mean in the rest of the multiverse there aren't things that can survive it or have defenses that would protect against it. You're talking a setting where the impact of magic isn't considered after all, nor that of things like gods and alien intelligences.

Cue anime-style shot of giant expanding cloud of yellow-white destruction...right before a giant dark orb hoves out of the middle of it unscathed.
Cut to senior bridge officer with lots of decorations on his uniform looking gobsmacked.
"That's...that's impossible! Nothing can survive a Reflex Cannon blast! NOTHING! Fire again! Fi-"
Frame goes white as the ship gets wasted by return fire.

Nightmask wrote:

keir451 wrote:My solution is simpler; I Rift in the SDF-1 or SDF-3 or Marduk Flagship and waste the Dominator from 200,000+ miles out w/ a main particle beam cannon that (according to canon) destroys everything in it's path regardless of MDC and inflicts 1d4 x 1 million MDC to a planet. *BWAHAHAHAHAHA!*

That canon is only within the Robotech universe, just because it's said to destroy everything there doesn't mean in the rest of the multiverse there aren't things that can survive it or have defenses that would protect against it. You're talking a setting where the impact of magic isn't considered after all, nor that of things like gods and alien intelligences.

Incorrect, as RT is a Palladium product, and there are NO canon rules that say otherwise, the effects of the main guns of the SDF-1/ Macross 2 Marduk flagships carry over. True there are things in 3G that are most assuredly NOT present in RT/Macross 2, nonetheless the damage capacity/capability remains unchanged. I do agree that there may very well be objects that cannot be destroyed by such weapons, but they would truly have to be gargantuan in scale(planet sized or larger, the Dominator ship is ONLY 30 miles in diameter), larger than even the Dominator's ship. As for the Dominator's ship I could see that at the very least the main guns would blow a sizeable hole in the ship and perhaps make the Dominator rethink his course of action (unlikely, I know). As far as speed goes, the Dominator sphere only does a pathetic Mach 4 sublight vs the RT/Macross 2 ship speeds of .25c for the flagships and (at times) .5c for the smaller vessels. So even the comparatively slow capital class ships can out manuever a Dominator sphere.

keir451 wrote:

Nightmask wrote:

keir451 wrote:My solution is simpler; I Rift in the SDF-1 or SDF-3 or Marduk Flagship and waste the Dominator from 200,000+ miles out w/ a main particle beam cannon that (according to canon) destroys everything in it's path regardless of MDC and inflicts 1d4 x 1 million MDC to a planet. *BWAHAHAHAHAHA!*

That canon is only within the Robotech universe, just because it's said to destroy everything there doesn't mean in the rest of the multiverse there aren't things that can survive it or have defenses that would protect against it. You're talking a setting where the impact of magic isn't considered after all, nor that of things like gods and alien intelligences.

Incorrect, as RT is a Palladium product, and there are NO canon rules that say otherwise, the effects of the main guns of the SDF-1/ Macross 2 Marduk flagships carry over. True there are things in 3G that are most assuredly NOT present in RT/Macross 2, nonetheless the damage capacity/capability remains unchanged. I do agree that there may very well be objects that cannot be destroyed by such weapons, but they would truly have to be gargantuan in scale(planet sized or larger, the Dominator ship is ONLY 30 miles in diameter), larger than even the Dominator's ship. As for the Dominator's ship I could see that at the very least the main guns would blow a sizeable hole in the ship and perhaps make the Dominator rethink his course of action (unlikely, I know). As far as speed goes, the Dominator sphere only does a pathetic Mach 4 sublight vs the RT/Macross 2 ship speeds of .25c for the flagships and (at times) .5c for the smaller vessels. So even the comparatively slow capital class ships can out manuever a Dominator sphere.

No, that's your opinion, that's not what the material as written actually says. The Robotech books are written without anything to do with other game universes or settings being considered. While you're free to decide that the SDF-1's cannon is that powerful (and it CAN be stopped, as seen in the books there are Force Fields that have a chance of blocking the beam completely) even though it's written solely with what's available in the Robotech universe in mind that doesn't make it canon that it's all-power in other settings. All we know is how destructive it is relative to its setting, you have no canon rules that say it's that way in Phase World, Nightbane, Rifts, and everywhere else so you can't insist what's canon to its setting is actually canon to every setting.

Nightmask wrote:

keir451 wrote:

Nightmask wrote:

keir451 wrote:My solution is simpler; I Rift in the SDF-1 or SDF-3 or Marduk Flagship and waste the Dominator from 200,000+ miles out w/ a main particle beam cannon that (according to canon) destroys everything in it's path regardless of MDC and inflicts 1d4 x 1 million MDC to a planet. *BWAHAHAHAHAHA!*

That canon is only within the Robotech universe, just because it's said to destroy everything there doesn't mean in the rest of the multiverse there aren't things that can survive it or have defenses that would protect against it. You're talking a setting where the impact of magic isn't considered after all, nor that of things like gods and alien intelligences.

Incorrect, as RT is a Palladium product, and there are NO canon rules that say otherwise, the effects of the main guns of the SDF-1/ Macross 2 Marduk flagships carry over. True there are things in 3G that are most assuredly NOT present in RT/Macross 2, nonetheless the damage capacity/capability remains unchanged. I do agree that there may very well be objects that cannot be destroyed by such weapons, but they would truly have to be gargantuan in scale(planet sized or larger, the Dominator ship is ONLY 30 miles in diameter), larger than even the Dominator's ship. As for the Dominator's ship I could see that at the very least the main guns would blow a sizeable hole in the ship and perhaps make the Dominator rethink his course of action (unlikely, I know). As far as speed goes, the Dominator sphere only does a pathetic Mach 4 sublight vs the RT/Macross 2 ship speeds of .25c for the flagships and (at times) .5c for the smaller vessels. So even the comparatively slow capital class ships can out manuever a Dominator sphere.

No, that's your opinion, that's not what the material as written actually says. The Robotech books are written without anything to do with other game universes or settings being considered. While you're free to decide that the SDF-1's cannon is that powerful (and it CAN be stopped, as seen in the books there are Force Fields that have a chance of blocking the beam completely) even though it's written solely with what's available in the Robotech universe in mind that doesn't make it canon that it's all-power in other settings. All we know is how destructive it is relative to its setting, you have no canon rules that say it's that way in Phase World, Nightbane, Rifts, and everywhere else so you can't insist what's canon to its setting is actually canon to every setting.

No, sir, it is not MY opinion. Robotech is transferable between Rifts (and 3G) as of Conversion book one. I acknowledged that there ARE things which can stop the blast from the SDF-1's main gun, but I thank you for reminding me about the Pinpoint Barriers, pp.100-101 Sentinels RPG: "The only attack the pinpoint barrier system will crumble under is the [i]heavy particle beam[i] onslaught from the Zentraedi flagship" The barriers all need to be in one spot but collapses due to the strain, so they are only good once. I remind you again RT is a PALLADIUM product, therefore the rules that are applicable to RT/Macross 2 ARE applicable to ANY other game setting. If you choose to alter the damages, use other rules, or other things from the various settings to your game standards that is fine and I do not dispute your choice in that matter.

keir451 wrote:

Nightmask wrote:

keir451 wrote:

Nightmask wrote:

keir451 wrote:My solution is simpler; I Rift in the SDF-1 or SDF-3 or Marduk Flagship and waste the Dominator from 200,000+ miles out w/ a main particle beam cannon that (according to canon) destroys everything in it's path regardless of MDC and inflicts 1d4 x 1 million MDC to a planet. *BWAHAHAHAHAHA!*

That canon is only within the Robotech universe, just because it's said to destroy everything there doesn't mean in the rest of the multiverse there aren't things that can survive it or have defenses that would protect against it. You're talking a setting where the impact of magic isn't considered after all, nor that of things like gods and alien intelligences.

Incorrect, as RT is a Palladium product, and there are NO canon rules that say otherwise, the effects of the main guns of the SDF-1/ Macross 2 Marduk flagships carry over. True there are things in 3G that are most assuredly NOT present in RT/Macross 2, nonetheless the damage capacity/capability remains unchanged. I do agree that there may very well be objects that cannot be destroyed by such weapons, but they would truly have to be gargantuan in scale(planet sized or larger, the Dominator ship is ONLY 30 miles in diameter), larger than even the Dominator's ship. As for the Dominator's ship I could see that at the very least the main guns would blow a sizeable hole in the ship and perhaps make the Dominator rethink his course of action (unlikely, I know). As far as speed goes, the Dominator sphere only does a pathetic Mach 4 sublight vs the RT/Macross 2 ship speeds of .25c for the flagships and (at times) .5c for the smaller vessels. So even the comparatively slow capital class ships can out manuever a Dominator sphere.

No, that's your opinion, that's not what the material as written actually says. The Robotech books are written without anything to do with other game universes or settings being considered. While you're free to decide that the SDF-1's cannon is that powerful (and it CAN be stopped, as seen in the books there are Force Fields that have a chance of blocking the beam completely) even though it's written solely with what's available in the Robotech universe in mind that doesn't make it canon that it's all-power in other settings. All we know is how destructive it is relative to its setting, you have no canon rules that say it's that way in Phase World, Nightbane, Rifts, and everywhere else so you can't insist what's canon to its setting is actually canon to every setting.

No, sir, it is not MY opinion. Robotech is transferable between Rifts (and 3G) as of Conversion book one. I acknowledged that there ARE things which can stop the blast from the SDF-1's main gun, but I thank you for reminding me about the Pinpoint Barriers, pp.100-101 Sentinels RPG: "The only attack the pinpoint barrier system will crumble under is the [i]heavy particle beam[i] onslaught from the Zentraedi flagship" The barriers all need to be in one spot but collapses due to the strain, so they are only good once. I remind you again RT is a PALLADIUM product, therefore the rules that are applicable to RT/Macross 2 ARE applicable to ANY other game setting. If you choose to alter the damages, use other rules, or other things from the various settings to your game standards that is fine and I do not dispute your choice in that matter.

Sorry but it's still your opinion that the entry for the SDF-1's main cannon where it says 'everything' holds any validity outside the Robotech universe. Just because Palladium produced the Robotech RPG in no way, shape, or form means that what is written there must be applicable anywhere else. Given the rules for Robotech are in fact contradicted by other settings including Rifts/Phase World (particularly with the move to the Ultimate Edition) obviously what's written in the Robotech books is not in fact applicable to every other game setting, which ought to be self-evident as they were writing Robotech, not the Rifts Worldbook: Robotech. They were focused on the Robotech setting and NOT how the stuff carried over into other settings.

Seriously, just because Palladium created an RPG for Robotech it's completely without merit to suggest that the RPG was written specifically with the intent to be applicable across all their other RPG, it's written to be self-contained (which is why they had some rules for conversions, BECAUSE it's not written with the other settings in mind) and because it's written to reflect the TV show as closely as they could manage they certainly weren't writing it considering every other Palladium game product out. So if you choose for your game to insist that where it says 'everything' it means that there's nothing in the Multiverse that can survive it (in spite of at least one example that it indeed does NOT manage to destroy everything) you're free to do so but that's you in your game that's certainly not canon because there is no canon involved there's only what is more likely than not and it's more likely that many things exist in other universes that can survive the SDF-1's main cannon than it is that it can truly obliterate anything and everything that exists including rune weapons and otherwise indestructible things or things impervious to the type of attack it makes.

I gather it's necessary to point out to someone that Robotech isn't a Palladium product, it's someone else's intellectual property that Palladium paid for the right to create an RPG based on it. The anime was never written or conceived with the idea that it would ever see crossovers with other settings including Palladium's intellectual properties and neither were the RPG books. So when it says 'everything' with regards to the SDF-1's beam cannon while that's certainly true within the Robotech universe the Robotech universe hasn't even close to the kinds of things that exist across the entire Palladium multiverse, something that's supreme in one setting isn't necessarily so in another. Plus it's not completely supreme as the RPG does list at least one means of blocking the beam, so the idea of other things being able to block or survive it isn't that much of a stretch.

You can't scratch a murder wraith with an anti-matter bomb for example, so how could a weapon that doesn't contain any of the elements its vulnerable to kill one? Obviously it can't. But you don't go listing exceptions in a book for creatures that don't even exist in that setting. You also don't list exceptions when you don't think there's any chance of it ever coming up in a game: seriously how many players have it where their characters have the SDF-1 as a weapons platform at their command or anything like it? Something that can survive in a star is really unlikely to be bothered overmuch by the SDF-1's beam cannon.

Yes it's a massively destructive weapon, provided it has the time to power up and hit a target. Yes it'd be very useful against a Dominator ship given the opportunity, but it's also not a one-shot guaranteed kill against something like a Dominator ship either. We're talking a craft using technology way beyond what the SDF-1 possesses, if it was such an easy kill people wouldn't bring up using the SDF-1 to try and even the odds.

Nightmask wrote:I gather it's necessary to point out to someone that Robotech isn't a Palladium product, it's someone else's intellectual property that Palladium paid for the right to create an RPG based on it. The anime was never written or conceived with the idea that it would ever see crossovers with other settings including Palladium's intellectual properties and neither were the RPG books. So when it says 'everything' with regards to the SDF-1's beam cannon while that's certainly true within the Robotech universe the Robotech universe hasn't even close to the kinds of things that exist across the entire Palladium multiverse, something that's supreme in one setting isn't necessarily so in another. Plus it's not completely supreme as the RPG does list at least one means of blocking the beam, so the idea of other things being able to block or survive it isn't that much of a stretch.

You can't scratch a murder wraith with an anti-matter bomb for example, so how could a weapon that doesn't contain any of the elements its vulnerable to kill one? Obviously it can't. But you don't go listing exceptions in a book for creatures that don't even exist in that setting. You also don't list exceptions when you don't think there's any chance of it ever coming up in a game: seriously how many players have it where their characters have the SDF-1 as a weapons platform at their command or anything like it? Something that can survive in a star is really unlikely to be bothered overmuch by the SDF-1's beam cannon.

Yes it's a massively destructive weapon, provided it has the time to power up and hit a target. Yes it'd be very useful against a Dominator ship given the opportunity, but it's also not a one-shot guaranteed kill against something like a Dominator ship either. We're talking a craft using technology way beyond what the SDF-1 possesses, if it was such an easy kill people wouldn't bring up using the SDF-1 to try and even the odds.

As it is merely a game we are allowed to come up with any idea we want, if we want the SDF-1 to destroy the Dominator ship in one shot we can, if we want a murder wraith to be destroyed by an anti-matter bomb we can. That's the entire point of these forums, to post any crazy idea we want (within the rules of the forums) and then discuss it/hack it to bits and laugh about it afterwards. After all, it's only a game.
Have fun y'all I'm outta here!

keir451 wrote:

Nightmask wrote:I gather it's necessary to point out to someone that Robotech isn't a Palladium product, it's someone else's intellectual property that Palladium paid for the right to create an RPG based on it. The anime was never written or conceived with the idea that it would ever see crossovers with other settings including Palladium's intellectual properties and neither were the RPG books. So when it says 'everything' with regards to the SDF-1's beam cannon while that's certainly true within the Robotech universe the Robotech universe hasn't even close to the kinds of things that exist across the entire Palladium multiverse, something that's supreme in one setting isn't necessarily so in another. Plus it's not completely supreme as the RPG does list at least one means of blocking the beam, so the idea of other things being able to block or survive it isn't that much of a stretch.

You can't scratch a murder wraith with an anti-matter bomb for example, so how could a weapon that doesn't contain any of the elements its vulnerable to kill one? Obviously it can't. But you don't go listing exceptions in a book for creatures that don't even exist in that setting. You also don't list exceptions when you don't think there's any chance of it ever coming up in a game: seriously how many players have it where their characters have the SDF-1 as a weapons platform at their command or anything like it? Something that can survive in a star is really unlikely to be bothered overmuch by the SDF-1's beam cannon.

Yes it's a massively destructive weapon, provided it has the time to power up and hit a target. Yes it'd be very useful against a Dominator ship given the opportunity, but it's also not a one-shot guaranteed kill against something like a Dominator ship either. We're talking a craft using technology way beyond what the SDF-1 possesses, if it was such an easy kill people wouldn't bring up using the SDF-1 to try and even the odds.

As it is merely a game we are allowed to come up with any idea we want, if we want the SDF-1 to destroy the Dominator ship in one shot we can, if we want a murder wraith to be destroyed by an anti-matter bomb we can. That's the entire point of these forums, to post any crazy idea we want (within the rules of the forums) and then discuss it/hack it to bits and laugh about it afterwards. After all, it's only a game.
Have fun y'all I'm outta here!

Yes one can certainly do that if they want, but they do need to at least acknowledge that in doing so its their house rule and not what's stated as possible in the actual books. Of which it is most definitely a house rule that the SDF-1's main gun kills everything in all universes even when those things are immune to the nature of its attack. Its supremacy in its own setting does not even remotely mean it maintains that in other settings, there's nothing special about Robotech that its rules trump everyone else's especially when its not even in its own universe. Rune Weapons and Murder Wraiths to name a few are immune to the attack form the SDF-1 uses, therefor canonically it can't harm let alone destroy them in spite of 'destroys everything' being written in its own books, as those things don't exist there to bother listing as an exception.

'It doesn't list these exceptions so they don't exist' is a common fallacy people make use of to try and justify a bad idea, Palladium's game books would look like giant legal tomes if they had to go through and list every single exception possible based on every single game setting that they have and how they might interact in all possible contingencies. Which is why they don't, they might list some if they're likely to come about but you aren't going to list something being vulnerable to something that it won't ever have to come up against to worry about it.

The one thing I don't like about this book is that the spaceship construction rules from AUGG were left out of it. It's one of the few things that should be reprinted in another book that Palladium decided to forget about for some reason.

And it's not like it would have changed much of anything else in the book. It would have brought the page count up by about two or three dozen pages, and Palladium would of had to include unit costs on all the systems listed in that book (and now that I think about it, a simple unit-cost-of-stuff list from previous Phase World books as well), and that's it.