Page 2 of 2
Re: Boxing - Banning it
Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 4:36 pm
by JuliusCreed
Colt47 wrote:Chronicle wrote:point taken, but an offer to resolve the problem none the less.
The only way to really fix the number of attacks for ranged weapons being based off of the number of hand to hand attacks of the character would be to rework how the number of attacks for ranged weapons is calculated. Tracking the number of melee attacks separate from the ranged attacks would be one tactic and probably the simplest, since ranged attacks already ignore strike bonuses from hand to hand combat skills and Physical Prowess.
On a high up concept kind of view: Ranged attacks would be based on whether the character in question is proficient with the ranged weapon and their character level. Melee attacks would be calculated and handled as they are right now.
On a closer design view: Since the typical number of starting attacks a character has is four if he has a hand to hand combat skill, four attacks would be the base for a character with a modern weapon proficiency, while an untrained character would possess half that amount. The number of attacks with ranged weapons would improve statically and independently of the hand to hand skill at a rate similar to hand to hand: Basic. Attack actions would be counted against the maximum number of melee / movement actions the character has available.
The one caveat with this method is that it is possible for a character to run out of ranged attacks before he has used up all his melee/movement actions, so you end up with a situation where for some reason the person can't pull the trigger on his gun, but he can move x number of feet or punch someone in the face.
It also complicates the character sheet even further and makes the process of making and maintaining a character more tedious.
This rings oddly familiar... didn't a see a post somewhere around here once about "Firearm Combat Styles" or somesuch, roughly based off of the Hand to Hand styles we have now?
Re: Boxing - Banning it
Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 6:06 pm
by Colt47
JuliusCreed wrote:Colt47 wrote:Chronicle wrote:point taken, but an offer to resolve the problem none the less.
The only way to really fix the number of attacks for ranged weapons being based off of the number of hand to hand attacks of the character would be to rework how the number of attacks for ranged weapons is calculated. Tracking the number of melee attacks separate from the ranged attacks would be one tactic and probably the simplest, since ranged attacks already ignore strike bonuses from hand to hand combat skills and Physical Prowess.
On a high up concept kind of view: Ranged attacks would be based on whether the character in question is proficient with the ranged weapon and their character level. Melee attacks would be calculated and handled as they are right now.
On a closer design view: Since the typical number of starting attacks a character has is four if he has a hand to hand combat skill, four attacks would be the base for a character with a modern weapon proficiency, while an untrained character would possess half that amount. The number of attacks with ranged weapons would improve statically and independently of the hand to hand skill at a rate similar to hand to hand: Basic. Attack actions would be counted against the maximum number of melee / movement actions the character has available.
The one caveat with this method is that it is possible for a character to run out of ranged attacks before he has used up all his melee/movement actions, so you end up with a situation where for some reason the person can't pull the trigger on his gun, but he can move x number of feet or punch someone in the face.
It also complicates the character sheet even further and makes the process of making and maintaining a character more tedious.
This rings oddly familiar... didn't a see a post somewhere around here once about "Firearm Combat Styles" or somesuch, roughly based off of the Hand to Hand styles we have now?
It wouldn't surprise me. In fact, I think there are some firearm combat styles on the P-MAN webpage.
Re: Boxing - Banning it
Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 11:00 pm
by flatline
Easier still to abolish the concept of attacks per melee entirely and just accept that different actions take differing amounts of time.
Make combat more like a book narrative than a tactical exercise and you'll never miss APM.
--flatline
Re: Boxing - Banning it
Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 9:05 am
by Colt47
flatline wrote:Easier still to abolish the concept of attacks per melee entirely and just accept that different actions take differing amounts of time.
Make combat more like a book narrative than a tactical exercise and you'll never miss APM.
--flatline
I think I'd rather have some way to measure how many times someone is going to potentially get hit or gets to move than free wheel it.
Re: Boxing - Banning it
Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 10:53 am
by Shorty Lickens
Colt47 wrote:flatline wrote:Easier still to abolish the concept of attacks per melee entirely and just accept that different actions take differing amounts of time.
Make combat more like a book narrative than a tactical exercise and you'll never miss APM.
--flatline
I think I'd rather have some way to measure how many times someone is going to potentially get hit or gets to move than free wheel it.
I think what he meant was: We know theres 15 seconds in a Palladium combat round. Decide how many seconds each type of action takes and let people keep going until they run out of time.
One problem is experienced fighters can react faster so I dont know how we'd decide on the times for various actions between OCC's, RCC's and character levels. With juicers its simple enough, just say their times are cut in half, so they can do twice as much as everyone else per round. But I dont know what we'd do with borgs, crazies and others.
Re: Boxing - Banning it
Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 9:08 pm
by Slight001
Colt47 wrote:JuliusCreed wrote:Colt47 wrote:Chronicle wrote:point taken, but an offer to resolve the problem none the less.
The only way to really fix the number of attacks for ranged weapons being based off of the number of hand to hand attacks of the character would be to rework how the number of attacks for ranged weapons is calculated. Tracking the number of melee attacks separate from the ranged attacks would be one tactic and probably the simplest, since ranged attacks already ignore strike bonuses from hand to hand combat skills and Physical Prowess.
On a high up concept kind of view: Ranged attacks would be based on whether the character in question is proficient with the ranged weapon and their character level. Melee attacks would be calculated and handled as they are right now.
On a closer design view: Since the typical number of starting attacks a character has is four if he has a hand to hand combat skill, four attacks would be the base for a character with a modern weapon proficiency, while an untrained character would possess half that amount. The number of attacks with ranged weapons would improve statically and independently of the hand to hand skill at a rate similar to hand to hand: Basic. Attack actions would be counted against the maximum number of melee / movement actions the character has available.
The one caveat with this method is that it is possible for a character to run out of ranged attacks before he has used up all his melee/movement actions, so you end up with a situation where for some reason the person can't pull the trigger on his gun, but he can move x number of feet or punch someone in the face.
It also complicates the character sheet even further and makes the process of making and maintaining a character more tedious.
This rings oddly familiar... didn't a see a post somewhere around here once about "Firearm Combat Styles" or somesuch, roughly based off of the Hand to Hand styles we have now?
It wouldn't surprise me. In fact, I think there are some firearm combat styles on the P-MAN webpage.
The Rifter 11, haven't read it fully but that should be the right article.
Re: Boxing - Banning it
Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 1:09 pm
by Display-Name-Alpha
Here's the thing... GM's see players taking it for the extra action per melee, that is it. Especially in M.D.C. environments, you aren't going to have many characters who are not supernatural to begin with going unarmed. Think about what it takes to learn how to box; next to nothing. All boxing is perception, reading your opponent, naturally you learn some tactics in the ring, but if you take for instance as perceived, Mike Tyson vs. A Street Thug... Mike Tyson has a better change surviving against the street thug because he knows how to read body movements; i.e. When the thug is moving to attack, the shoulder drop that comes in when hes about to thrust a knife or pull a gun, things like that. Disallowing the extra attack per melee is pointless because it would even apply to ranged combat, you read your opponent seeing their body sweeping toward you with that assault rifle so naturally you duck behind cover and still have an extra action you wouldn't normally have.
The extra PS and SDC is only natural as you train, even if you train solo, you still would get more hardened as you get stronger and your muscle density increases. So its not really a catch all for just "an extra attack".
Watch the new Sherlock Holmes with Robert Downey Jr., the scene where he is fighting the guy in the ring where the back of his head gets spit on. THAT is the boxing skill. Reading your opponent.