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ok to be fair about the rewrites one was NPCs, one was core rules and one was the book of death (scenarios). BUT the core book of rewrites were only single sided, however it was one of those big D ringers. I've been playing palladium games for almost 20 years. In that time I became a bad "boyfriend"; "Palladium, I love you, but could you wear something else to the party" kind of thing. I've changed stats, skills, powers, classes. Really there is no area I haven't found things to tweak. I've put a lot of fun work into this game and despite the changes, I haven't found anything else I've liked as much. I can play any other game within the palladium megaverse. I love CP 2020, I've played Pathfinder (which is just working its way towards palladium despite the feat system), I really like the White Wolf system, Mayfar, d6, BESM, Traveller, Toon, Buck Rogers (which is just AD&D in space in the way Spelljammer wasn't), I have a reasonable amount of experience, but nothing has inspired me like Palladium.

jaymz wrote:

Mr. Deific NMI wrote:

KillWatch wrote:I take Spd as over all, which sometimes palladium does and does not. The faster something is coming at you the less time you have to react or are we not looking at the -10 rule anymore

Your post makes it seem as if "thrown items get a bonus to strike of +spd/10
And in Heroes, there is no "-10" rule. It is "-4"

not only that but SPD has never been used for anything but how fast you can run in one minute.....

Except in Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, there are actual bonuses listed based on your speed attribute.

Nightmask wrote:

jaymz wrote:

Mr. Deific NMI wrote:

KillWatch wrote:I take Spd as over all, which sometimes palladium does and does not. The faster something is coming at you the less time you have to react or are we not looking at the -10 rule anymore

Your post makes it seem as if "thrown items get a bonus to strike of +spd/10
And in Heroes, there is no "-10" rule. It is "-4"

not only that but SPD has never been used for anything but how fast you can run in one minute.....

Except in Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, there are actual bonuses listed based on your speed attribute.

and original Ninjas & Super Spies

Mr. Deific NMI wrote:

Nightmask wrote:

jaymz wrote:

Mr. Deific NMI wrote:

KillWatch wrote:I take Spd as over all, which sometimes palladium does and does not. The faster something is coming at you the less time you have to react or are we not looking at the -10 rule anymore

Your post makes it seem as if "thrown items get a bonus to strike of +spd/10
And in Heroes, there is no "-10" rule. It is "-4"

not only that but SPD has never been used for anything but how fast you can run in one minute.....

Except in Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, there are actual bonuses listed based on your speed attribute.

and original Ninjas & Super Spies

Then they conformed N&S to HU.

yes but the statement was never, which was wrong

Personally, I think I am going to house rule adding PP bonuses to modern weapons, at least for Heroes Unlimited. My logic is:

A: It's more genre appropriate. The supers world is filed with amazing marksmen characters, and there is currently no way to simulate them in the game as the rules stand... anyone with the same WP at the same level has the exact same chance to hit

B: As others have mentioned, it would allow one to eliminate (or at least reduce) the dodge penalties for modern weapons, which is also very genre appropriate... super heroes dodge bullets and energy blasts all the time.

Ultimately, firearms proficiency comes down to your skill at not moving, plus sighting, estimating drop-off/windage, and timing. Good shots can be found among all types of people: weak, strong, agile, slow, skinny, fat, young, and old alike. It is not a whole body activity, and when done properly, PP wouldn't anymore than it does to other fine-control tasks, like watch repair.

But what about when it is not done properly?
I will say, I have considered allowing Fantasy's WP Modern Weapons in other games as representing training in a completely different style of weapons handling, also known as 'Doing It Wrong'. Covering someone roughly trained in how to make the weapon operate, who solely practices the art of pointing it in the direction of the enemy and pulling the trigger at them. No aiming, no sighting, probably no trigger discipline, and only PP bonuses to strike. The style employed by savages with practice and bad action movies alike. They'd need a separate skill or someone else to help with maintenance and cleaning of the weapons, but they can operate it well enough. Mechanically, in just covers single shots, no aimed shots or called shots, and burst fall into the usual untrained wild spray of bullets. Also, it obviously does not stack with WPs that cover firing the weapon properly, it is one or the other. As a houserule, I would also count effective range as reduced with it. (Though considering that such practitioners are usually running and diving toward the enemy while yelling, long range isn't as great a concern.)

Well the +2 is kind of whimpy which is why I do basic expert and master level skills. If you want to spend all your points on being a deadly shot with a revolver,.. do so. But you can't swim? I will not be responsible for you not knowing how to swim

Psychokazi wrote:as sucky as this is, because I believe that PP should affect ones steadiness(and therefore accuracy) so the bonus should be added to strike. but in the Heroes Unlimited GM Guide Page 204 it states that the PP bonus IS NOT included with modern firearms.


this still sucks

That's the case not JUST in HU but in every Palladium game. Simple fix. Allow it in your games. I do.

A regular Military guy not being able to use his talent (ie PP stat) to do what he is a good at like shooting a gun is my guess.

Too bad military training in palladium doesn't automatically give sharpshooting but only WP's making military training no better than Joe Shmoe home defender guy. Maybe allow only Military trained characters to add PP bonuses to firearms while Joe Shmoe cannot.

NMI wrote:I found the official, canon answer to this question.

Heroes Unlimited : Game Masters Guide - page: 204, 2nd column, 1st paragraph.

I would like to mention this is in the section called Optional Rules for Modern Weapons.

This would insinuate that you do get the PP bonuses with modern weapons.

What I do is:
Not Trained: -3 to Strike Roll and no PP Bonuses.
Are Trained: you get your PP Bonuses and Skill Bonuses

Now on page 11 of Villains Unlimited it states: Character PP Bonuses do not count when shooting an Automatic or Energy weapon.

These would lead me to understand firing single shots from a modern weapon would get the PP bonuses. But not burst fire.

You realize (iirc as it may have changed bewteen hu2 and rue since lord knows Palladium always tweaks their rules so that they are not as megaversal as everyone thinks they are) that beyond 50ft there is no penalty for dodging firearms right?

Got a page number to back that rule up? Not trying to be a dink but would prefer a page number over someone just saying so.

Actually it starts on page 63....but thanks.

Mind you this just shows me that the Palladium system still tries to insert "realism" where it isn't needed or frankly in my opinion desired.

Watch TV and movies and you see the "heroes" (ie Player Characters) dodging bullets etc very frequently. If that is what people are trying to emulate then why have a mechanic that makes it very difficult to do so?

I use PP/10 as a bonus. It has an effect but not a huge one

This is old ground. Palladium writers seem to think that shooting a firearm is all skill and that physical ability has no effect. According to them a first level character with a 6 pp can shoot just as well as a first level character with a 30 pp if they both have WP Revolver.

SpiritInterface wrote:This is old ground. Palladium writers seem to think that shooting a firearm is all skill and that physical ability has no effect. According to them a first level character with a 6 pp can shoot just as well as a first level character with a 30 pp if they both have WP Revolver.

I agree the second sentence, but disagree with the first. It seems to me that the witholding of PP bonuses on firearms is more of an effort to keep the game from descending into a sniping battle. Palladium writers have always seemed (to me) to prefer to have combat as up close and personal as possible. Limiting ranged weapon bonuses can urge players to keep things within shorter ranges.

steadiness though will only go so far. YOu only need a 5 to hit a stationary target, any stationary target. But with moving targets PP AND Spd come into play for accuracy and reflexes. I've been taking speed into account for years for initiative / damage / S P D bonuses

Developing hand-eye coordination does improve the ability to fire a gun in real life, so you would think you would be able to add PP bonuses. I would allow that in my game even though I am aware that the books do not allow for it.