If not, there wouldn't be a lot of TW gear in the world. Especially without a lot of gemstone mines going on in the post Rifts world, even using some recovered precious stones from pre-rifts times, there is going to be a certain lack of gem stones.
Especially as big as some of the stones need to be in some TW contraptions. Finding 1 carat diamonds might not be too hard. You'd have tens of thousands of pre-rifts engagement rings to pick over (if not millions). However, finding a 5 carat stone for something would be nearly impossible without synthetic creations.
If you want, and I've never thought on this much, I'd say that for a synthetic gem stone, the device has 3/4 of the range/duration/damage/payload as a natural gemstone. Simply reflecting the mysticalness of one created by the earth.
I mean, why not. It imparts some coolness, I guess.
Synthetic gem stones should cost 1/5th normal price (most aren't that hard to make, especially with MDC materials and the kind of anvils that would allow you to make).
From my understanding, alot of stones used today are synthetic.
Cubic Zirconia are "better" than natural Diamonds that is why they have to have CZ on them. The reason why NDs are more expensive is because high grade natural are rarer and that is what you pay for. In reality diamonds are not that rare DeBeers has a massive surplus and they either withhold or flood the market to control prices. So there is an HLS for Rifts Africa, the DeBeers surplus of diamonds (I'm not actually sure if that is in Africa though... probably not with the political instability there). Artifical emeralds don't have fractures like most real ones... but again that is why a perfect natural emerald is more expensive than an artifical one. The most perfect stones are man made, the most expensive are perfect nature made. It is all about rarity. For Palladium and magic it is about magic and IMHO because artificial gems are made by man they aren't "elemental" only the natural stones that are made by the Earth or other natural process is linked to the elements... IMHO
you some might think you're a but you're cool in book --Mecha-Viper BEST IDEA EVER!!! -- The Galactus Kid Holy crapy, you're Zer0 Kay?! --TriaxTech Zer0 Kay is my hero. --Atramentus The Zer0 of Kay, who started this fray, Kept us laughing until the end. -The Fifth Business (In loving Memory of the teleport thread)
There really shouldn't be any kind of difference between natural and artificial gems, there isn't anything special about the heat and pressure deep in the earth creating diamonds compared to some industrial process doing the exact same thing. I'd say it's some flaky psychological limitation; mages have been TOLD that artificial gems are unnatural by the old-school mages and because belief drives the magic it results in them simply unable to make use of an artificial gem because they think it can't work rather than because it actually can't.
Fair warning: I consider being called a munchkin a highly offensive slur and do report people when they err in doing so.
'Reality is very disappointing.' - Jonathan Switcher from Mannequin
It's 'canon', not 'cannon'. A cannon is a big gun like on pirate ships, canon is what you mean when referring to something as being contained within one of the books such as how many dice to roll for a stat.
anapuna wrote:how about it is a game and this was thought of back in 1984 and kevin may not have had time to investigate gemstone creation back then and just said it has to be natural. that way it keeps TWs from being to powerful by making gems cheap and making crap loads of money and / or having crap loads of shields and weapons and at their disposal.
or
he tought, hey it is magical it should be natural, because factory stones are just not natural.
i think this is the answer.
The problem with the second line of thought is how the heck can steel swords be enchanted then? Steel is not a naturally occurring metal, it's an alloy, so by that line of thought steel isn't useful for magical item creation.
Norbu the Enchanter: Hello friends! What brings you to my shop today?
Big Joe: We need some things enchanted to take a beating...
Norbu: Perhaps you want your weapons enchanted? Or maybe a shield or sword? I can even enchant armor!
Big Joe: We need you to enchant this Liver, this heart, and these kidneys.
I'd allow synthetic gemstones to be used in TW items, but I'd also likely reduce the effect (range, damage, whatever.) of the item somewhat due to the 'unnatural' nature of the stones.
But that's just me.
Blade with whom I have lived. Blade with whom I now die. Serve right and justice one last time. Seek one last heart of evil. Still one last life of pain. Cut well old friend... and then farewell. -Sir Orin Neville Smyth, Flight of Dragons
I wouldn't penalize the TW item for using quality stones that are artificial. However, I might allow a TW item made with "aged" stones (natural, or just really old artificial stones that were "cured" somehow magically) to be better somehow than average.
--flatline
I don't care about canon answers. I'm interested in good, well-reasoned answers and, perhaps, a short discussion of how that answer is supported or contradicted by canon.
If I don't provide a book and page number, then don't assume that I'm describing canon. I'll tell you if I'm describing canon.
I'm actually thinking a TW gem creation device designed to power them with PPE through the Talisman spell. Thinking a device with a contained chamber, Energy Field perhaps, which produces great heat and pressure (Some Fire spell and a gravity distortion Temporal spell) inside the chamber, and then whilst the stone is forming the device injects PPE into the stone with the Talisman spell.
While I can see the point of restricting TW items to natural gemstones, I also see a flaw. How many carats of gemstones go into every UWW vessel? Can the UWW honestly be mining that sheer quantity of raw, gem-quality stones? Or have they found a way to use artificially manufactured ones? I would think that Inglix the Mad would have figured that one out by now.
I'm surprised people cannot see the difference between natural and authentic gemstones.
In my game synthetic stones make great cheap wedding rings but you need natural gems for technowizardry.
"I flew back to the states just to vote for Trump." Mumpsimus can be defined as someone who obstinately clings to an error, bad habit or prejudice, even after the foible has been exposed. I will not answer posts/questions/accusations by people on my foes list. The Ugly Truth - Carl Gleba on the Cabal of 24. Rifts® Online: Megaversal Highway.
Akashic Soldier wrote:I'm surprised people cannot see the difference between natural and authentic gemstones.
In my game synthetic stones make great cheap wedding rings but you need natural gems for technowizardry.
Please, tell us what the difference is.
--flatline
They are PERFECT. They have no natual link to the world.
you some might think you're a but you're cool in book --Mecha-Viper BEST IDEA EVER!!! -- The Galactus Kid Holy crapy, you're Zer0 Kay?! --TriaxTech Zer0 Kay is my hero. --Atramentus The Zer0 of Kay, who started this fray, Kept us laughing until the end. -The Fifth Business (In loving Memory of the teleport thread)
Akashic Soldier wrote:I'm surprised people cannot see the difference between natural and authentic gemstones.
In my game synthetic stones make great cheap wedding rings but you need natural gems for technowizardry.
Please, tell us what the difference is.
--flatline
They are PERFECT. They have no natual link to the world.
Please define "natural link".
A synthetic stone can be created with all the same types of impurities and imperfections as a natural stone. If the physical properties of the stone are all that matter to technowizardry, then synthetic stones should probably be even better than natural stones since the physical properties can be tailored to the need.
Which is why I prefer the "newness" idea. A slight reiteration from before:
Consider the "Songjuice", the Liquid trace P.P.E. Australian Songjuicers can extract from objects. A gemstone has had millennia to accumulate natural energy passing through it's lattice and compressed during it's formation. An artificial gem is raw, empty. If a Songjuicer tried to use it, he'd get nothing.
Essentially, it hasn't been primed with any energy.
wyrmraker wrote:While I can see the point of restricting TW items to natural gemstones, I also see a flaw. How many carats of gemstones go into every UWW vessel? Can the UWW honestly be mining that sheer quantity of raw, gem-quality stones? Or have they found a way to use artificially manufactured ones? I would think that Inglix the Mad would have figured that one out by now.
Except the requirement is only that they be natural gems, not that they need to be jewelery quality. Industrial quality gems work just as well. You also don't need the carats to all be one stone, you can use gem dust that adds up to the carat weight you need.
Akashic Soldier wrote:I'm surprised people cannot see the difference between natural and authentic gemstones.
In my game synthetic stones make great cheap wedding rings but you need natural gems for technowizardry.
Please, tell us what the difference is.
--flatline
They are PERFECT. They have no natual link to the world.
Please define "natural link".
A synthetic stone can be created with all the same types of impurities and imperfections as a natural stone. If the physical properties of the stone are all that matter to technowizardry, then synthetic stones should probably be even better than natural stones since the physical properties can be tailored to the need.
--flatline
Ah... no, molecular impurities yes, but if you try to crack an artifical emerald like real ones are you end up shattering it. It is how they are formed not what they are formed from.
"natural link" Lets put it this way if you manufacture a planet that has all the physical makings of Earth and bump Earth out of orbit and replace it with the new earth the leylines won't just transfer over. A stone made of the Earth is elemental a stone made of man is artificial. One made by the elements the other by an artificer. No elemental ("natural") link no magic. If it is created by magic it should be pulled from some elemental plane into existance and therefore is elemental. An artifical is smashed and heated by man or seeded and grown by man and there fore is not natural.
you some might think you're a but you're cool in book --Mecha-Viper BEST IDEA EVER!!! -- The Galactus Kid Holy crapy, you're Zer0 Kay?! --TriaxTech Zer0 Kay is my hero. --Atramentus The Zer0 of Kay, who started this fray, Kept us laughing until the end. -The Fifth Business (In loving Memory of the teleport thread)
SAMASzero wrote:Which is why I prefer the "newness" idea. A slight reiteration from before:
Consider the "Songjuice", the Liquid trace P.P.E. Australian Songjuicers can extract from objects. A gemstone has had millennia to accumulate natural energy passing through it's lattice and compressed during it's formation. An artificial gem is raw, empty. If a Songjuicer tried to use it, he'd get nothing.
Essentially, it hasn't been primed with any energy.
I'd even go with this one.
you some might think you're a but you're cool in book --Mecha-Viper BEST IDEA EVER!!! -- The Galactus Kid Holy crapy, you're Zer0 Kay?! --TriaxTech Zer0 Kay is my hero. --Atramentus The Zer0 of Kay, who started this fray, Kept us laughing until the end. -The Fifth Business (In loving Memory of the teleport thread)
Given the near-impossibility in finding certain stones (certain stones simply have never been found in North America, for example, such as Ruby Quartz, only discovered in a mine in Africa in 2004), as well as the actual difficulty of manufacturing gems stones (seriously, look up both processes; they are both a pain), I would allow manufactured gem stones. RUE states that synthetic diamond and synthetic zircon don't work with TW; therefore I would judge that the other gems would be permitted to be artificially manufactured.
Dr Megaverse wrote:I took a look around the forums and didn't see anything on these questions so I thought I'd make a new post.
Can lab created gems (emeralds, sapphires, rubys, etc) be used in a TW construct?
Are there any limitations on the kinds of devices which can be converted to utilize both a TW power source and a conventional power source?
Thank you!
As for your second question (which I don't believe has been touched on yet) I can't find any rules for a dual power supply for TW items. Nothing that I can see addresses the possibility. Then again, the Hellfire Shotgun can load standard shotgun shells as well as blast out fireballs, so there is a precedent. I would personally permit it, within reason. After all, a TW Fireblade, by it's definition, has no solid blade. But I don't see why a vehicle couldn't have both a PPE Engine and an electrical power supply that can be switched between. So long as it makes sense, I would permit it.
flatline wrote:So what's the difference between stones made in a lab and those made deep underground?
Chemically and physically, they can be made indistinguishable. Why should technowizardry work with one but not the other?
Because it's not science, it's magic.
This. Techno-Wizards ground the ephemeral and ethereal power of magic in the physical constraints of man's ironmongery, so it requires the rarefied gems of earth power to properly regulate the etheric energies.
Also, it would be game breakingly easy for TW then. So no.
you some might think you're a 
but you're cool in book 
