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Any one ever try a point buy option. I didnt see any listed. Never used one for any palladium games personally. But I've added them to other games.

Ronin78 wrote:Any one ever try a point buy option. I didnt see any listed. Never used one for any palladium games personally. But I've added them to other games.

Never been a fan of point buy, they tend to be set up to limit you to just one or maybe two good stats and the rest end up sub-par and encourage you to create limited-range characters.

enhancer wrote:You are right, I listed the classes, you responded to my post. I listed the books you said should be excluded to the power creep of those classes, and the books that would still be excluded even if you eliminated the works of C.J Carella and Bill Coffin. You said nothing about their relevance to Palladium Fantasy. The topic is about the problems encountered with high stat characters, and the comparison was made that is was unavoidable due the sheer number of classes in the game with stats to rival deity characters. Dragons, Deevils, Vampires, Spirits of Light, Rahu-Man, Titans and more can all be found in Palladium Fantasy. If you don't want me to respond, you probably shouldn't attempt to "point out" things to me.

I see no point in continuing to quote the posts in question as you and Nightmask have quoted them while simultaneously misreading them several times.

Likewise, stubbornly refusing to recognize that you have both 1. misread and misinterpreted my every post regarding this tangent and 2. continue to just be argumentative, I'll let you continue on your merry way..

The topic is NOT about the problems encountered with high stat characters, it about how you roll up characters (hence the title "How do you guys roll up characters? and the O.P.'s examples of ways to do so). But whatever...

MADMANMIKE wrote:

enhancer wrote:You are right, I listed the classes, you responded to my post. I listed the books you said should be excluded to the power creep of those classes, and the books that would still be excluded even if you eliminated the works of C.J Carella and Bill Coffin. You said nothing about their relevance to Palladium Fantasy. The topic is about the problems encountered with high stat characters, and the comparison was made that is was unavoidable due the sheer number of classes in the game with stats to rival deity characters. Dragons, Deevils, Vampires, Spirits of Light, Rahu-Man, Titans and more can all be found in Palladium Fantasy. If you don't want me to respond, you probably shouldn't attempt to "point out" things to me.

I see no point in continuing to quote the posts in question as you and Nightmask have quoted them while simultaneously misreading them several times.

Likewise, stubbornly refusing to recognize that you have both 1. misread and misinterpreted my every post regarding this tangent and 2. continue to just be argumentative, I'll let you continue on your merry way..

The topic is NOT about the problems encountered with high stat characters, it about how you roll up characters (hence the title "How do you guys roll up characters? and the O.P.'s examples of ways to do so). But whatever...

We haven't misread or misinterpreted anything, and you not us are the one being argumentative.

Yes the topic is about how one rolls up characters, and one aspect brought up was someone capping stats because 'well only an NPC should have such stats', which I shouldn't have to point out is a part of rolling up characters. In case it needs extra clarifying, someone talks about putting a cap on what stats you can have, that means they're talking about how they feel characters should be created which opens up discussion on races and classes that allow for higher stats.

enhancer wrote:

Ronin78 wrote:Any one ever try a point buy option. I didnt see any listed. Never used one for any palladium games personally. But I've added them to other games.

Sorry for my ignorance, but what is a point buy option?

Point buy is when you give the player a set amount of points to "build/Buy" their character.

Often this is done my figuring what you want the average stat to be and multiply it by the number of stats.

Or start every stat out at 10 and give a pool of points players can add to drive up chosen stats.

For example I could say I want the average stat to be 14, I give my players 112 points (14x8) to spend.
And player distribute those point as they want, With in some guidelines set by the GM. Like only one stat over 20 or something like that.

Ronin78 wrote:

enhancer wrote:

Ronin78 wrote:Any one ever try a point buy option. I didnt see any listed. Never used one for any palladium games personally. But I've added them to other games.

Sorry for my ignorance, but what is a point buy option?

Point buy is when you give the player a set amount of points to "build/Buy" their character.

Often this is done my figuring what you want the average stat to be and multiply it by the number of stats.

Or start every stat out at 10 and give a pool of points players can add to drive up chosen stats.

For example I could say I want the average stat to be 14, I give my players 112 points (14x8) to spend.
And player distribute those point as they want, With in some guidelines set by the GM. Like only one stat over 20 or something like that.

Just remember you have 'average joe' stats and 'average hero' stats, so we dont get anything confused.

robertbc73 wrote:

Ronin78 wrote:

enhancer wrote:

Ronin78 wrote:Any one ever try a point buy option. I didnt see any listed. Never used one for any palladium games personally. But I've added them to other games.

Sorry for my ignorance, but what is a point buy option?

Point buy is when you give the player a set amount of points to "build/Buy" their character.

Often this is done my figuring what you want the average stat to be and multiply it by the number of stats.

Or start every stat out at 10 and give a pool of points players can add to drive up chosen stats.

For example I could say I want the average stat to be 14, I give my players 112 points (14x8) to spend.
And player distribute those point as they want, With in some guidelines set by the GM. Like only one stat over 20 or something like that.

Just remember you have 'average joe' stats and 'average hero' stats, so we dont get anything confused.

I was just using what the GM wants the average to be. I'd imagine that would be different from say Beyond the supernatural and Heroes Unlimited.

With the starting at 10 option you could just say the added points very based on the setting.

In my campaigns, players use the given number (2d6, 3d6, etc) and I allow 1s and occasionally 2s over depending upon the player and their skill level. For new players, I tend to allow them stronger characters to counteract the newbie factor.

Outside of 1s and 2s over, everything else is by the book

enhancer wrote:How do you roll up non-human characters, do they get the extra rolls for 6s as well?

That would be the canon approach...

Palladium Fantasy Role-Playing Game page 14 wrote:
Non-human characters who get an initial attribute roll of two six-sided dice (2D6) get to roll one additional six-sided die (1D6) if the roll is a 12. Characters that get to roll four, five or even six, six-sided dice for an attribute do not get any additional dice rolls even if the rolls are exceptional...

For humans: 3D6 rolled all 8 times and place them where you want. Then re-roll 1 of choice but keep the new roll.

Everyone else per the book

I've only had one human join the party now in the last 2 years.

Wow seems like the guy above my first post was really into finding characters whom didn't fit into the character generation guidelines.

To me it seems a trivial thing. Like how Alistair Duscon has 1458 P.P.E.

As the GM the Elf main enemy in could have 1000 MD in Rifts because I say so.

That is how I view what the books say. Sure that character doesn't fit the normal build but they are special people made the real GMs.

I wouldn't give the monster races the "magic 6 syndrome" because people would just exploit it.

enhancer wrote:

Sir Dellis wrote:In my campaigns, players use the given number (2d6, 3d6, etc) and I allow 1s and occasionally 2s over depending upon the player and their skill level. For new players, I tend to allow them stronger characters to counteract the newbie factor.

Outside of 1s and 2s over, everything else is by the book

How do you roll up non-human characters, do they get the extra rolls for 6s as well?

Yes, they do. On a 2d6 stat (MA for elves, for example), if they roll a 12, they get the extra d6...

Same goes for 3d6 stats...

So yes, I go by canon rules with the 1s and 2s over exception

VIsgar wrote:For humans: 3D6 rolled all 8 times and place them where you want. Then re-roll 1 of choice but keep the new roll.

Everyone else per the book

I've only had one human join the party now in the last 2 years.

Man it seems like a human stat line is incredibly bad when leveled against a good stat line and common specials that attract players, weird right?

VIsgar wrote:Wow seems like the guy above my first post was really into finding characters whom didn't fit into the character generation guidelines.

To me it seems a trivial thing. Like how Alistair Duscon has 1458 P.P.E.

As the GM the Elf main enemy in could have 1000 MD in Rifts because I say so.

That is how I view what the books say. Sure that character doesn't fit the normal build but they are special people made the real GMs.

Oh man way to win that argument with a unsupported dismissive stance vs someone who has page numbers and a sound argument. Boy you've sure convinced this faceless internet fourmite with that devil may care attitude! In less abrasive news, no one is expecting some random GM to follow the books by a letter, and people do understand GM writ is a thing in RPG's, and that not everyone can be bothered to make NPC's by every rule around, both for a dynamic game play that supports fairness between both players and GMs, but also because GMs on average will make many more characters over the course of a game than any single player, so some number fudging and random stat grabs are far more understandable. Truly great GMs know how to make interesting (and powerful) villains by following the same rules players do, mostly because the players at that point have a sense of fair play going on. No one should hate on GM's for taking the easy route of course, they should just hate one people who don't think before they type.

VIsgar wrote:I wouldn't give the monster races the "magic 6 syndrome" because people would just exploit it.

Oh man, exploiting random dice value with narrow range probability! You do realize as a human I abuse a 'magic 6 syndrome' (also known more formally as exploding dice, when 6's add additional dice, they are known to 'explode' as they expand beyond norms and create wacky graphs of probability, as opposed to the normal bell curves). So long as a range of required dice is maintained, in this case, as humans need 16+ on three dice, the lowest average being 6,5,5, it can be assumed that any race can attain a exploding value on a similar curve (so 4D6 is 6,5,5,5 while a 2D6 would be a 6,5), to adjust for the shift in high end probability, you can also do 6,6,5,5 for 4D6 and attain slightly better results. However, all this means is, so long as you use one of these systems, it does not favor the higher dice pool to attain a higher chance to get those exploded added dice, in fact, it's normally worse, as the more dice you add, the more likely to fall within averages you'll be. So perhaps learn some math before you claim people can exploit dice. Unless you're poorly implying they're cheating at dice, which they're just as likely (more so) to do when human's the only race to do this, because if you're not getting sweet natural abilities, you may as well have sweet stats.

As to enhancer;
Some of those can be explained outside of normal stats, Mr. Green is the best of these; He rolled a 4 on creation, then through his life, an event caused him a permanent 40 MDC loss that could not be healed. Of course that's conjecture at my part, but when dealing with NPCs, more so ones that are intended to have quiet leads or hooks built into them, but perhaps not the space to explain them or tell their life story. Of course there are still out liers on that list that are harder to explain, like Leon (Perhaps he got an added 3 MA from something, and rolled 12 on the first, and a 6 on the bonus die).

And to MADMANMIKE;
Since my stuffs all boxed at the moment, could you tell me if that's current 2nd Ed for sure (my curious mind won't let me rest, and I'd rather not dig through packaged stuff).

Cinos wrote:Since my stuffs all boxed at the moment, could you tell me if that's current 2nd Ed for sure (my curious mind won't let me rest, and I'd rather not dig through packaged stuff).

I only have first, third (hardback), and sixth printings, it's the same in all.

enhancer wrote:Ahh, thanks. I had remembered reading that somewhere but couldn't find it(most of my stuff is Rifts books). Hmmm, it doesn't list what you do for 1D6 or 3D6 rolls, which is annoying considering mine is the 6th printing of the second edition. Does this only apply to Palladium Fantasy or is this supposed to be Megaversal?

I didn't bother looking through any RIFTS books as this is the Palladium Fantasy forum, it wouldn't be relevant to the conversation..

Perhaps as I suggested earlier you should start a similar thread on the RIFTS forum?

Yes I was poorly implying that some characters would/do cheat on dice rolls.

I wasn't trying to win or start an argument. I was stating my opinion.

I don't feel that role-playing should be all about sweet stats or sweet abilities, but to each his own

Cinos: Calm down bud you're getting all worked up over nothing. Telling people to hate me because we don't share the same views is very narrow-minded and childish.

Have a nice day.

enhancer wrote:

MADMANMIKE wrote:

Cinos wrote:Since my stuffs all boxed at the moment, could you tell me if that's current 2nd Ed for sure (my curious mind won't let me rest, and I'd rather not dig through packaged stuff).

I only have first, third (hardback), and sixth printings, it's the same in all.

enhancer wrote:Ahh, thanks. I had remembered reading that somewhere but couldn't find it(most of my stuff is Rifts books). Hmmm, it doesn't list what you do for 1D6 or 3D6 rolls, which is annoying considering mine is the 6th printing of the second edition. Does this only apply to Palladium Fantasy or is this supposed to be Megaversal?

I didn't bother looking through any RIFTS books as this is the Palladium Fantasy forum, it wouldn't be relevant to the conversation..

Perhaps as I suggested earlier you should start a similar thread on the RIFTS forum?

So what you are saying is you don't know. Okay.
Anyone else have a canon source for the 1D6 or 3D6 rolls, Palladium Fantasy or otherwise?

Warning: That could have been said in a much less trollish manner.

.

I don't believe that there is a canon source for 1d6 stat rolls. What race/monster are you using that has 1d6 for a stat? I just read the rules on page 14 of PFRPG and see no mention of 1d6 stats.

If you are referring to digging SPDs, like with the kobold, a range of 1-6 would be accurate imo because those races are digging through the ground with their hands...

I also just went through all of the races listed in the main book and only saw 2 1d6 stats...1d6+6 (PB for kobolds) and 1d6+4 (PB for trolls). By canon rule, these stats would not get an additional d6 regardless what was rolled because of the +4 and +6.

I don't have a standing house rule for 1d6 stats, but if I did, I would not allow an additional d6 to be rolled if I or my players rolled a 6...for whatever reason, whoever designed the race/monster in question, there is a good reason for it to have a 1d6 as a stat. For example, kobolds and trolls are just that freaking UGLY!!! lol

VIsgar wrote:Yes I was poorly implying that some characters would/do cheat on dice rolls.

I wasn't trying to win or start an argument. I was stating my opinion.

I don't feel that role-playing should be all about sweet stats or sweet abilities, but to each his own

Cinos: Calm down bud you're getting all worked up over nothing. Telling people to hate me because we don't share the same views is very narrow-minded and childish.

Have a nice day.

Don't spout ignorance that a 4D6 with exploding rolls in the hands of a cheater is some how worse then a 3D6 with exploding rolls in the hands of a cheater, and I won't call you on it. All you did was attempt to imply rolling stats is some how bad because people cheat. Cheating does not make stats bad, it makes cheating bad, I can win any RPG with awful stats if I cheat and only roll 20's and box car out any damage roll. Or whatever lots of fours is called, since I do like them 2D4 x 10 guns. Pyramid cars?

Play nice people or I will lock the thread and issue warnings.

enhancer wrote:

Sir Dellis wrote:
I don't believe that there is a canon source for 1d6 stat rolls. What race/monster are you using that has 1d6 for a stat? I just read the rules on page 14 of PFRPG and see no mention of 1d6 stats.

If you are referring to digging SPDs, like with the kobold, a range of 1-6 would be accurate imo because those races are digging through the ground with their hands...

I also just went through all of the races listed in the main book and only saw 2 1d6 stats...1d6+6 (PB for kobolds) and 1d6+4 (PB for trolls). By canon rule, these stats would not get an additional d6 regardless what was rolled because of the +4 and +6.

I don't have a standing house rule for 1d6 stats, but if I did, I would not allow an additional d6 to be rolled if I or my players rolled a 6...for whatever reason, whoever designed the race/monster in question, there is a good reason for it to have a 1d6 as a stat. For example, kobolds and trolls are just that freaking UGLY!!! lol

I don't think there are any PF player races that are, but the Aquatics, Banshees and Labassu have some 1D6s(I do have to make those occasionally). It's not just the 1D6 stats though, it's also 3D6. They list what to do for 2D6, 4D6, 5D6 and 6D6. They also don't specify whether or not you do it for +x(like 2D6+6) either, just that they get an "automatic bonus" and how to apply it. The only ones they specifically state that you don't give exceptional extra rolls to are 4D6, 5D6 and 6D6.

On any non-human stat like 2d6+6, if you roll a 12, you don't add an extra die because of the bonus. The range of that stat 8-18 instead of 2-12. Any 3d6 roll, if you roll 16, 17, 18, you roll an extra d6. If you get a 6, you can roll another d6 for a max of 5d6.

For those monsters with 1d6 stats, that's it - that's the range...1-6...

In our group for most of the past 20 years of the 24 I've been playing PB rpgs -

4D6, drop the lowest.
Reroll 1s & often 2s (depends on the GM)
Especially for newer players, who might know how to *role* play as easily with good/poor stats - roll 2 or 3 sets of stats.
If multiple sets of stats are rolled, place in order. If only 1 set of stats, place how you'd like.

Usually the player qualifies for the OCC/RCC they want, with 2-3 uber stats, & perhaps 1 stat that is 10 or less.