I let my players play anything, do you?

[say652]

i prefer the ragtag group of random individuals over a specialized team.

[GenThunderfist]

i prefer the ragtag group of random individuals over a specialized team.

and that is a great opinion and as show throughout the comic book, manga, videogame, anime, and tv world to be a wonderfully quirky and interesting style of play. In the end though, it is not so much limiting creativity to not allow ragtag groups (which most turn out to be anyway such as Gunslinger, W&D Hunter, and Wilderness Scout working as demon hunters, or a Wolfen Wilderness Scout and a Human Blaster being archaeological team) as it is simply a different preferred playstyle.

[say652]

everybody else was like level 12. the raided a secret lonestar base. some clarivoient told them a temporal raider was goingto be there to steal a weapon of great power....my character.for probably two hours of the gamesession i watched tv and went outside for cigerettes. then finally in the middle of a fierce gun battle my character was released from his biotube. i saw a monster(the temporal raider) and sided with the people fighting it.

[say652]

everybody else was like level 12. the raided a secret lonestar base. some clarivoient told them a temporal raider was goingto be there to steal a weapon of great power....my character.for probably two hours of the gamesession i watched tv and went outside for cigerettes. then finally in the middle of a fierce gun battle my character was released from his biotube. i saw a monster(the temporal raider) and sided with the people fighting it.

Aaaaaalright. That sure is a thing, but I am admittedly a little confused as to your purpose in posting it.

in order to introduce an odd character such as a super my gm(using his imagination) created a way to fit him into his game. funny thing he wouldnt allow cosmoknights or hatchling dragons as player characters.a good gm will make any character fit in to their story.

[say652]

everybody else was like level 12. the raided a secret lonestar base. some clarivoient told them a temporal raider was goingto be there to steal a weapon of great power....my character.for probably two hours of the gamesession i watched tv and went outside for cigerettes. then finally in the middle of a fierce gun battle my character was released from his biotube. i saw a monster(the temporal raider) and sided with the people fighting it.

Aaaaaalright. That sure is a thing, but I am admittedly a little confused as to your purpose in posting it.

in order to introduce an odd character such as a super my gm(using his imagination) created a way to fit him into his game. funny thing he wouldnt allow cosmoknights or hatchling dragons as player characters.a good gm will make any character fit in to their story.

Right well assuming that the rest of the party where even anywhere near the power of a superhuman then your character would be appropriate for a setting (although this is unlikely seeing as superpowers are the easiest thing to break in the entire palladium system). However, the issue is not introducing a character (anyone can say "a rift opens up and out walks so-and-so") but rather introduce a believable character into a believable setting for your manner. I'm sorry but seeing the words "temporal raider" along with "lone star complex" without the words "CS gunning down everyone" pretty much kills it for me.

a great game took three sessions to escape the complex. and another three years to realize my character had a tracking device in his chest.it seemed like where ever he went he coalition followed. though unfortunately several rebel bases were destroyed by the cs tracking him i was able to make it to japan and eventually phaseworld.

[Killer Cyborg]

Gary's original race was a godling (some may say "but those are supernatural, cosmo-knights can't be supernatural!", well the R.C.C. description never calls them a supernatural creature so I'm running with it. I can play anything right?)
He chose:

Not to be pedantic but you may want to check the GMG page 13 definition of Supernatural Creature.

Also there is a difference between letting your players play the OCC/RCC they want and letting them dictate every detail of their character. The GM should be setting the guidelines and exerting some influence over character gen.

If the GM is setting guidelines and exerting some influence, then he's not letting them play "anything."

[Killer Cyborg]

i wouldnt want my inspiration or imagination micromanaged to that level. on more than one occasion we have FIRED a gm. that would one of the reasons. your game your rules well go play with yourself. come on guys we are out. games are supposed to be FUN

A lot of GMs don't have much fun when their only function is to service the players.

[say652]

if it is in a book or more specifically a legit character class, not some wishy washy mash-up, then why not. i fail to see how a players choice of character changes anything. If a gm wants that much control write a book with your adventure and your characters, if a gm wants people to actually play with him compromise. your game your adventure but the PLAYERS characters. i know strange concept to most of you control freaks its like roleplaying or something,OMG i have to improvise because the human played characters didnt follow everything i would have done if i was playing all the characters. roleplay or write books. funnything you can roleplay with other people writing is kind of a solo thing.

[Killer Cyborg]

if it is in a book or more specifically a legit character class, not some wishy washy mash-up, then why not.

Why draw the line at "mash-ups?"
And why not what?

i fail to see how a players choice of character changes anything.

Because it can throw things out of balance and change the nature of the adventure.

If a gm wants that much control write a book with your adventure and your characters,

HOW much control?
Enough to be able to come up with adventure premises that don't get messed up when people want to bring in players with the wrong power levels or powers?
Enough control to be able to say, "I want to run a Coalition campaign," and to disallow characters like Combat Mages, Dragons, and Godlings?
Enough control to be able to say, "I want to run a Federation of Magic campaign," and to disallow characters like SAMAS Pilots and CS Juicers?
Enough control to be able to say, "I want to run an adventure in a big maze," and to disallow teleporters and other characters that would negate the point of the adventure?

It sounds like you expect the GM to always run adventures based entirely on whatever odd combination of characters and powers the group of other players want, ignoring what he wants to do in order to please everybody else.
And a lot of GMs just don't have fun that way.
And having fun is supposed to be important to the game.

if a gm wants people to actually play with him compromise.

You see anything less than "I let my players play ANYTHING" as an unwillingness to compromise?
Because to me, it seems more the other way, that players always getting what they want is a failure on their part to compromise.

[say652]

if it is in a book or more specifically a legit character class, not some wishy washy mash-up, then why not.

Why draw the line at "mash-ups?"
And why not what?

i fail to see how a players choice of character changes anything.

Because it can throw things out of balance and change the nature of the adventure.

If a gm wants that much control write a book with your adventure and your characters,

HOW much control?
Enough to be able to come up with adventure premises that don't get messed up when people want to bring in players with the wrong power levels or powers?
Enough control to be able to say, "I want to run a Coalition campaign," and to disallow characters like Combat Mages, Dragons, and Godlings?
Enough control to be able to say, "I want to run a Federation of Magic campaign," and to disallow characters like SAMAS Pilots and CS Juicers?
Enough control to be able to say, "I want to run an adventure in a big maze," and to disallow teleporters and other characters that would negate the point of the adventure?

It sounds like you expect the GM to always run adventures based entirely on whatever odd combination of characters and powers the group of other players want, ignoring what he wants to do in order to please everybody else.
And a lot of GMs just don't have fun that way.
And having fun is supposed to be important to the game.

if a gm wants people to actually play with him compromise.

You see anything less than "I let my players play ANYTHING" as an unwillingness to compromise?
Because to me, it seems more the other way, that players always getting what they want is a failure on their part to compromise.

i dont like mashups. coalition has a magical class of sorts the leyline researchers offer that,desertors from the cs seems viable, the maze is dimensionally shielded to prevent escape. and a happy player why would a gm want that?

[Killer Cyborg]

i dont like mashups.

So?
Is "I don't like X" a sufficient reason for a GM to disqualify something?
That seems to run counter to your entire argument so far.

coalition has a magical class of sorts the leyline researchers offer that

That would be reasonable, but it would not be "letting them play anything."
It would be the GM restricting the players' choice of characters, which you have been arguing about.

,desertors from the cs seems viable,

No, actually loyal CS soldiers, with all their normal gear.
Because the players should be able to play ANYTHING, right?
Otherwise, it's just an uncompromising GM who should probably write a book instead of trying to game, right...?

the maze is dimensionally shielded to prevent escape.

Sounds like letting the players play what they want... then effectively nerfing or negating the players' power(s) to fit the GM's scenarios.
You're cool with that?

and a happy player why would a gm want that?

Why not?

[Grell]

I prefer to run a more tightly focused adventure and a more coherent campaign, so I don't generally allow ANY type of character. All character concepts are subject to approval and I hold character generation sessions so that I can be available to answer questions in real time. How much class restriction there is depends on the type of adventure and the setting.

I agree with KC on all points being made so far. No oversight and management of character selection is an excellent recipe for chaos. Probably an easier kind of group to run for when you're young, but I'm old and fear change.

[nilgravity]

I'd like to give some examples of some reasons why I would never, even in my nightmares, let players play anything they want:

Gary:
Gary is a fallen cosmo-knight ("why a fallen one" you ask? well just wait a moment if you will).
Gary's original race was a godling (some may say "but those are supernatural, cosmo-knights can't be supernatural!", well the R.C.C. description never calls them a supernatural creature so I'm running with it. I can play anything right?)
He chose:
Power #10: Magic (fire-warlock)
Power #9: Psionics (burster)
Power #5: Super-Tough

There is a difference between letting players be what they want and letting them cheat. I reward players for being clever. Throwing random abilities together isn't clever. Combining things that are prohibited from the rules is not clever. This is not a combination someone can start with without cheating. if a player came to me with this idea I would tell them that they can certainly attain this one day but through roleplaying. I don't know much about cosmo knights other than they fight space frigates by themselves, so I don't know why they are restricted from being supernatural creatures. Depending on that reason I may or not allow the RCC/OCC combo. If the restriction makes sense I wouldn't, if it's stupid, I would allow it. But godlings by definition are supernatural so I would not by that reasoning. I don't see any way someone can be a godling, have superpowers, and be a burster (though they could roll the psychic table and pick impervious to fire). So all of that I would not allow, but I have no problem with a cosmo-knight forming a contract with a fire elemental (though I'd make the player contact and strike the deal in game not make it part of the backstory).
But when I say I let the characters play as anything I mean that I would not prohibit this because it is too awesome. If there was a legit way to make this character I would allow it. But they wouldn't be getting experience with the rest of the group (none of the bandits you fought were a threat to them) and I would have NPC's mock them mercilessly "Destroy the Coalition? How did someone with such a limited imagination become so powerful?" When they think bigger they would draw attention from things he doesn't want to draw attention from (like splynn)

as for your other example

Billy
Billy is an Algor Frost Giant Titan-Juicer turned Murder-Wraith.
As a first level Juicer he had the following abilities: 7D6x100 SDC plus another 1D4x100 HP, Night vision 60 ft, total immunity to cold damage (including MD and Magic cold), a breath weapon that he could do FOR FREE (no action cost) once per round, a maximum supernatural PS of 52 from dice alone, automatic dodge, and +1 melee attack per round.
Now, becoming a Murder-Wraith gives Billy some more goodies:
First off, he's immortal. He also gets another 1D4+2 PS (for a whopping maximum of 58 from the dice, almost maxing out the charts!), he is immune to all damage except magic and silver, as an undead billy also takes MD damage as if it were SDC damage (convinient seeing as his SDC is so stupidly high). Oh also, billy had amnesia after becoming a murder-wraith and doesn't remember he is supposed to be evil (alignment change) and his necromancer master was killed so he has no bond of servitude.

And neither of these things take into consideration other things I could do to boost these characters for free. Things like:
1) Coming from psyscape
2) Being a member of the ISS
3) Being a Sea Inquisitor
4) Getting magic tattoos
5) Going to the mercenary adventures boot camp
6) Getting free skills from a rogue scholar or from phase world
7) Getting addicted to DH
8:) Hanging out with a gene-splicer for the afternoon

Again this is breaking the rules as far as I know only humans can be juicers (except maxi-killers) and you can't use magic while on juicer treatment so the tats aren't an issue either. and so on. Okay but let's again say they pulled all this off. This character has a lot of leashes. Who says the necromancer ever was or still dead? Are the Vallax still around or maybe someone figured out how to hack their controls? Amnesia? Well this vagabond (and con man) knows of Billie's parents. The vagabound says that they were rulers who had a legendary collection of mystical artifacts that can only be reclaimed by their true heir who they had to send away because of a threat on him as an infant. The vagabound can help billy claim his birthright but first they have to do a few things...

[Killer Cyborg]

Again this is breaking the rules as far as I know only humans can be juicers (except maxi-killers)

Not really true.
Juicer Uprising mentions that as far as giants go, "So far, no variant of Juicer augmentation works on them.[/i]
Which means that there might be a way to get one of the variants to work on giants.
Whether or not any DOES work would be up to the GM, of course, but "subject to GM discretion" is not the same as "against the rules."
It would only be cheating if a GM forbade it, in which case the GM is not actually allowing the player to play "anything."

and you can't use magic while on juicer treatment

Hm.
I don't remember that being said anywhere.

[nilgravity]

You see anything less than "I let my players play ANYTHING" as an unwillingness to compromise?
Because to me, it seems more the other way, that players always getting what they want is a failure on their part to compromise."

I took the intent of the thread to mean that they don't limit on power level. Theme is a totally different thing to me. I should also note that I try not to steer players at all but if they aren't working on their own motivations then I do start introducing things which they are usually pretty compliant with. I've found that encouraging powergaming stifles it because the players get more paranoid about what you are going to throw at them in response.

Again this is breaking the rules as far as I know only humans can be juicers (except maxi-killers)

Not really true.
Juicer Uprising mentions that as far as giants go, "So far, no variant of Juicer augmentation works on them.[/i]
Which means that there might be a way to get one of the variants to work on giants.
Whether or not any DOES work would be up to the GM, of course, but "subject to GM discretion" is not the same as "against the rules."
It would only be cheating if a GM forbade it, in which case the GM is not actually allowing the player to play "anything."

I threw the 'as far as I know' in because I figured it is contradicted elsewhere but I am 98% certain in JU it does say that they have only perfected the process for humans. I forgot that there was wiggle room with Giants because they are biologically similar. But Juicer conversion is worth a lot of money and mostly illegal so it wouldn't be surprised if the doctor was unscrupulous enough to do it anyway. Is there a random side effect table? Better roll on that a couple times because frost giants biology is so different from humans compared to other species...
I'm fine with you saying "GM discretion" isn't the same as "against the rules" I only meant I would tell the player I consider that a cheat.

and you can't use magic while on juicer treatment

Hm.
I don't remember that being said anywhere.

I thought I had read that Juicer augmentations have a similar effect on magic as cybernetics. But I don't remember where I read that so I won't defend it. But even if it were the case I would probably let a character who's a Delphi Juicer have tats because it would make sense to me for that to be the exception.

[keir451]

It depends on the story I'm telling I may ask the palyers top limit themselves to specific races or classes accordingly.

[nilgravity]

1) Gary doesn't need experience
2) Godling gives you the ability to select burster powers as well as having magic
3) I'm aware that I couldn't select supernatural RCCs and I addressed that in the original post, although I can also get magic and psionics without using Godlings so there is a legit way to do it (thanks to D-Bees of North America).

1. if you say so
2. Didn't know that.
3. I don't know why you felt the need to point out that you addressed it in the post when my response was how I would react to that argument.

I'm not going to look it up, but D-Bees can undergo juicer conversion. The easiest to find evidence is RUE pg 106 illustration entitled "Rare D-Bee Juicers" so suffice to say it's possible. Also the tats are only for Gary, so that he can bring people back to life.

Possible doesn't mean the same as effective. But I'm still on RMB and only have a handful of books which doesn't include Atlantis which is why I went into how I would handle it if I were wrong about things like that.

The take I have on this thread is that I would let my players play as anything. I didn't intend to argue what is or isn't possible I was attempting to illustrate my thought process on how I would react if the player came to me with these characters.

[Killer Cyborg]

You see anything less than "I let my players play ANYTHING" as an unwillingness to compromise?
Because to me, it seems more the other way, that players always getting what they want is a failure on their part to compromise."

I took the intent of the thread to mean that they don't limit on power level. Theme is a totally different thing to me.

Power level is a theme.

Again this is breaking the rules as far as I know only humans can be juicers (except maxi-killers)

Not really true.
Juicer Uprising mentions that as far as giants go, "So far, no variant of Juicer augmentation works on them.[/i]
Which means that there might be a way to get one of the variants to work on giants.
Whether or not any DOES work would be up to the GM, of course, but "subject to GM discretion" is not the same as "against the rules."
It would only be cheating if a GM forbade it, in which case the GM is not actually allowing the player to play "anything."

I threw the 'as far as I know' in because I figured it is contradicted elsewhere but I am 98% certain in JU it does say that they have only perfected the process for humans.

Good point.
Then not only were you NOT wrong, I was wrong when I said "not really true."
Although the point remains that Giants can possibly be juicers... depending on the GM's decision.

and you can't use magic while on juicer treatment

Hm.
I don't remember that being said anywhere.

I thought I had read that Juicer augmentations have a similar effect on magic as cybernetics. But I don't remember where I read that so I won't defend it. But even if it were the case I would probably let a character who's a Delphi Juicer have tats because it would make sense to me for that to be the exception.

IIRC, a Juicer Bio-Comp and implants count as 2 Bionic implants, which would "reduce the character's PPE by half and prevent his ability to draw on PPE from other sources, including blood sacrifice and ley lines!"
Which wouldn't interfere with tattoos, other than reducing the character's PPE pool.

[taalismn]

After watching The Avengers I realized it is possible to GM multiple power levels simultaneously.

That's simple....let the big area of effect attacks cull the playing field of those weaker characters who aren't fast or smart enough to take cover.

Think of it as evolution in action...

[Grell]

After watching The Avengers I realized it is possible to GM multiple power levels simultaneously.

That's simple....let the big area of effect attacks cull the playing field of those weaker characters who aren't fast or smart enough to take cover.

Think of it as evolution in action...

You can have vastly different power levels in a game even with restricted classes, just look at what's possible for a group exclusively from R:UE.

[Athos]

are not games supposed to be fun? i find that jackwagon gms often end finding nobody to play with. gms make adventures for the playerswho make characters for the game which is supposed to be FUN.i mean if the gm wants to make the adventure and basically MAKE your character for maybe he/she should just play with themselves. games are fun stop micromanaging the creativity of others.

Regular idea of fun gaming : playing a character that is not perfect and can be challenged by the GM in many encounters. having to THINK to overcome things instead of just brutishly mashing every encounter.

Munchkin's idea of fun gaming : playing a character in which he has figured out a way to get rid of ALL weaknesses. never having to think or plan, just beating the crap out of stuff with overwhelming power. never having to role play, just dictating things to others.

If you were GMing, which player would you want in your game?

You said you fired a lot of GM's? Where I live GM's don't grow on trees, if someone is kind enough to volunteer to GM, we appreciate that and give them a shot to run THEIR game, without trying to backseat GM them. I suggest actually GMing a few times before you claim the munchkin ideal is more creative and fun. My guess is that by the 6th or so session of not having any challenges, the players will grow tired of killing alien intelligences and splugorth and move on to video games or something else. Without balance in a game, the fun level is almost impossible to sustain for any length of time. Unless you have a group of mature, experienced gamers that are really into the RP side, as a GM you HAVE to oversee things a bit. Otherwise there is always that one person who wants to dominate every facet of the game and will ruin it for the others. You can call this micromanaging or killing creativity, but the rest of the group will LOVE you for it since they won't get stuck nurse-maiding a munchkin.

Anyways, that is my experience with gaming, and I am too old to change my ways, I have been gaming since '77 and have been in all kinds of games from super munched out to super conservative, and I find for me personally, I like something in the middle. In all that time, I don't know of any super-munchie game that has lasted more than 3 months. I am not saying it's not possible, I am just saying I have never seen one.

And I agree with you 100%, the game is supposed to be FUN !!! That's why it's recreational, that's why it's called a game. There is no right or wrong way to play a RPG, you can do whatever you desire, that is what is great about them. My point isn't that you have to do things in way ABC in order to be "right", my point is that some ways of doing things, based on my experiences, lead to very short lived games, while other ways of doing things lead to games that last for years. Once again, noone is saying that a short lived game might not be fun for you, but for me, I personally like games that last so I can really develop my character over time. So for me, when a GM is taking an interest in character creation, it doesn't turn me off that he/she is "micromanaging", it actually relieves me to know that someone isn't going to slip a Mary Sue through on the GM and ruin the game for everyone else.

[Icefalcon]

are not games supposed to be fun? i find that jackwagon gms often end finding nobody to play with. gms make adventures for the playerswho make characters for the game which is supposed to be FUN.i mean if the gm wants to make the adventure and basically MAKE your character for maybe he/she should just play with themselves. games are fun stop micromanaging the creativity of others.

Regular idea of fun gaming : playing a character that is not perfect and can be challenged by the GM in many encounters. having to THINK to overcome things instead of just brutishly mashing every encounter.

Munchkin's idea of fun gaming : playing a character in which he has figured out a way to get rid of ALL weaknesses. never having to think or plan, just beating the crap out of stuff with overwhelming power. never having to role play, just dictating things to others.

If you were GMing, which player would you want in your game?

You said you fired a lot of GM's? Where I live GM's don't grow on trees, if someone is kind enough to volunteer to GM, we appreciate that and give them a shot to run THEIR game, without trying to backseat GM them. I suggest actually GMing a few times before you claim the munchkin ideal is more creative and fun. My guess is that by the 6th or so session of not having any challenges, the players will grow tired of killing alien intelligences and splugorth and move on to video games or something else. Without balance in a game, the fun level is almost impossible to sustain for any length of time. Unless you have a group of mature, experienced gamers that are really into the RP side, as a GM you HAVE to oversee things a bit. Otherwise there is always that one person who wants to dominate every facet of the game and will ruin it for the others. You can call this micromanaging or killing creativity, but the rest of the group will LOVE you for it since they won't get stuck nurse-maiding a munchkin.

Anyways, that is my experience with gaming, and I am too old to change my ways, I have been gaming since '77 and have been in all kinds of games from super munched out to super conservative, and I find for me personally, I like something in the middle. In all that time, I don't know of any super-munchie game that has lasted more than 3 months. I am not saying it's not possible, I am just saying I have never seen one.

And I agree with you 100%, the game is supposed to be FUN !!! That's why it's recreational, that's why it's called a game. There is no right or wrong way to play a RPG, you can do whatever you desire, that is what is great about them. My point isn't that you have to do things in way ABC in order to be "right", my point is that some ways of doing things, based on my experiences, lead to very short lived games, while other ways of doing things lead to games that last for years. Once again, noone is saying that a short lived game might not be fun for you, but for me, I personally like games that last so I can really develop my character over time. So for me, when a GM is taking an interest in character creation, it doesn't turn me off that he/she is "micromanaging", it actually relieves me to know that someone isn't going to slip a Mary Sue through on the GM and ruin the game for everyone else.

Well put. You would be welcome at my table anytime sir.

[Icefalcon]

i wouldnt want my inspiration or imagination micromanaged to that level. on more than one occasion we have FIRED a gm. that would one of the reasons. your game your rules well go play with yourself. come on guys we are out. games are supposed to be FUN

You have obviously never been a GM before. You will find it is not so easy to be one when all of the players are playing something that is difficult to develop challenges for. On the flip side, my groups have booted players that try to create characters that overshadow the others. I don't "micromanage" character creation, I just limit available options. If ALL of the players want a high powered game, then I am willing to run one. If my players want a theme game, even if one or two do not, then that is what I give them. If the players that complain about not getting to play whatever they want get to vocal, they are more than welcome to go find another group to play with. I have seen many of these "breakaway" groups crash and burn within a few months and that player come back to my group begging to be part of it again.

And just for the record, it has never been "my game my rules" with me. I am a rather relaxed GM but I still think ALL characters should be in the same general power level to make it fun for EVERY player.

[Nightmask]

i wouldnt want my inspiration or imagination micromanaged to that level. on more than one occasion we have FIRED a gm. that would one of the reasons. your game your rules well go play with yourself. come on guys we are out. games are supposed to be FUN

You have obviously never been a GM before. You will find it is not so easy to be one when all of the players are playing something that is difficult to develop challenges for. On the flip side, my groups have booted players that try to create characters that overshadow the others. I don't "micromanage" character creation, I just limit available options. If ALL of the players want a high powered game, then I am willing to run one. If my players want a theme game, even if one or two do not, then that is what I give them. If the players that complain about not getting to play whatever they want get to vocal, they are more than welcome to go find another group to play with. I have seen many of these "breakaway" groups crash and burn within a few months and that player come back to my group begging to be part of it again.

And just for the record, it has never been "my game my rules" with me. I am a rather relaxed GM but I still think ALL characters should be in the same general power level to make it fun for EVERY player.

The problem with that is power levels is entirely arbitrary, and at least some things are allowed just because they're so common no one would think to exclude them even though they'd skirt the issue of a particular idea of power levels. A player can easily end up wondering why his choice is considered 'too powerful' when he sees someone else with a character he considers far more powerful but it's allowed.

[say652]

yes billy can play but he will probably starve to death since he doesnt know he needs to feed.yes the fallen cosmic godling can play but if you read the cosmoknight description all previous abilities would be lost when you were remade better. now a fallen knight turned temporal wizard is fine.the reason i am so focused on this thread is simple supers deserve their place on rifts earth.supers do not ruin games any premade occ is not overly powerful enough to warrant banning.these are examples of mashups not a character class from a palladium book. now if Billy was an algor titan juicer thats cool welcome the cosmic godling sure you are a normal cosmoknight. or for the sake of compromise your pantheon granted you cosmic like powers so no alignment restriction or falling. so again hi cosmicgodling welcome:)

[say652]

i wouldnt want my inspiration or imagination micromanaged to that level. on more than one occasion we have FIRED a gm. that would one of the reasons. your game your rules well go play with yourself. come on guys we are out. games are supposed to be FUN

You have obviously never been a GM before. You will find it is not so easy to be one when all of the players are playing something that is difficult to develop challenges for. On the flip side, my groups have booted players that try to create characters that overshadow the others. I don't "micromanage" character creation, I just limit available options. If ALL of the players want a high powered game, then I am willing to run one. If my players want a theme game, even if one or two do not, then that is what I give them. If the players that complain about not getting to play whatever they want get to vocal, they are more than welcome to go find another group to play with. I have seen many of these "breakaway" groups crash and burn within a few months and that player come back to my group begging to be part of it again.

And just for the record, it has never been "my game my rules" with me. I am a rather relaxed GM but I still think ALL characters should be in the same general power level to make it fun for EVERY player.

i have gm'd for lots of people in lots of different games. in this one with a mixed party of lets see a borg a giant a burster an operator and a frost sprite. a suitable and fun adventure could be made relatively easy. or saloongirl a cosmoknight a temporal mage a neohuman and a samus pilot. yup could do that also.

[Nightmask]

yes billy can play but he will probably starve to death since he doesnt know he needs to feed.yes the fallen cosmic godling can play but if you read the cosmoknight description all previous abilities would be lost when you were remade better. now a fallen knight turned temporal wizard is fine.the reason i am so focused on this thread is simple supers deserve their place on rifts earth.supers do not ruin games any premade occ is not overly powerful enough to warrant banning.these are examples of mashups not a character class from a palladium book. now if Billy was an algor titan juicer thats cool welcome the cosmic godling sure you are a normal cosmoknight. or for the sake of compromise your pantheon granted you cosmic like powers so no alignment restriction or falling. so again hi cosmicgodling welcome:)

1) I can probably boost billies PPE to survive something like 40+ weeks without feeding once. I can also just make billy an insane cannibal who eats people anyways.
2) Fallen Cosmo-Knights regain their previous natural abilities when they loose their status as a cosmo-knight. or if you want to be really nit-picky, he was elevated to godling after falling and then given the powers.

Nowhere does it say a Fallen Cosmo-Knight regains any natural abilities of their race that were lost in becoming a Cosmo-Knight.

[Nightmask]

And saying that supers are not overpowered, really? I seriously showed an example where a level 1 super hero with 1 major power can instantly kill a glitter-boy in 1 attack. Give me another major power and I can only be hit 5% of the time save a few specific magic spells. Give me another and I pick damage capacity that would make a cosmo-knight blush. And that is a normal super, from a normal palladium book, using no special rules or anything. How is it not overpowered if the list of things that can kill me becomes shorter than the list of things that can't?

You've pointed to one power that one can potentially use to kill a Glitter Boy Pilot easily, maybe, that doesn't even remotely become 'all supers are over-powered'. You're cherry picking a few random powers and pretending that all the other powers that clearly can't do anything like what you've said don't exist or can do it anyway (so yes show how Healing Factor and Alter Metabolism can have you one-hit-killing a Glitter Boy, resist nearly all magic, or the ability to outshine a Glitter Boy's MDC).

[say652]

so my hopes of universal harmony and everybody playing together nicely are shattered. this week phaseworld next week rifts earth wind up in a fantasy realm then stroll through a heroes world o no we are in deadreign. i look at palladium books as expansion books for a great system. show me the book explain what it does, lets dimension hop together all with the same party. while traversing the multiverse the party should contain a wide mix of varied characters.jussayin

[Killer Cyborg]

All told, I can't think of ANY power or combination of powers from HU that are more broken or abusable than the Laser Bow from Spirit West.

[say652]

ok i would like to GM a game allowing any player character class from any palladium book. how do i start an online game. i will have harmony dangit!

[Zamion138]

ok i would like to GM a game allowing any player character class from any palladium book. how do i start an online game. i will have harmony dangit!

Play by post?
Play by chat?
Play over something like roll d20 a host rpg service or pen rpg?
Over skype?
There are alot of sites that run games this way. Just depends on the format you want to run

[say652]

ok i would like to GM a game allowing any player character class from any palladium book. how do i start an online game. i will have harmony dangit!

Play by post?
Play by chat?
Play over something like roll d20 a host rpg service or pen rpg?
Over skype?
There are alot of sites that run games this way. Just depends on the format you want to run

since i could use the practice typing play by post but chat gives the ability to be mobile so that works as well

[say652]

i am looking for players at first i wanted to join a game after this thread i feel i am needed in a more studious position. i posted in the dimension books forums the character requirements.

[Athos]

i am looking for players at first i wanted to join a game after this thread i feel i am needed in a more studious position. i posted in the dimension books forums the character requirements.

I put a link to OpenRPG in that forum's thread for you, it's an online Virtual Table Top.

I hope you have a fun, long-lasting game, which is no small task. Best of luck,

[say652]

i am looking for players at first i wanted to join a game after this thread i feel i am needed in a more studious position. i posted in the dimension books forums the character requirements.

I put a link to OpenRPG in that forum's thread for you, it's an online Virtual Table Top.

I hope you have a fun, long-lasting game, which is no small task. Best of luck,

thanks and much respect for the help. long lasting? yea right i am doing this solely with the purpose of "putting the prisoners in charge of the prison" you might say.

[jaymz]

ok i would like to GM a game allowing any player character class from any palladium book. how do i start an online game. i will have harmony dangit!

Play by post?
Play by chat?
Play over something like roll d20 a host rpg service or pen rpg?
Over skype?
There are alot of sites that run games this way. Just depends on the format you want to run

since i could use the practice typing play by post but chat gives the ability to be mobile so that works as well

Yahoo groups or Google groups are a simple place to start. Specialized sites also exist but the required credentials can require a little more effort to get everything going. It really depends if you have a group in mind already or if you want to find other players.

You can also easily do a game on Facebook and that would allow you to do the game play by post and or play by chat when everyone can get together at once. It also easily allows the sharing of images and maps.

[say652]

way i do it is, send me a character sheet for all the players(yes 24's on all attributes is cheating) and i can and will make a fun adventure. i have been GMing since 88(back then its was called DMing) and i never felt it was my place to limit someone else's choice for a hero. in my ADD game me had marvel heroes fighting beside vampires and minotaurs. i still chat with my first DM reminiscing about the good old days. Kinda the reason i switched to palladium games(the many many world books and A CONVERSION BOOK.) This game has a great system and was marketed as being the game in which you can play anything, anything less would not be honoring the concept of the all powerful creators*stands from keyboard and bows* HAIL PALLADIUM!!!!!!!!

[Balabanto]

i wouldnt want my inspiration or imagination micromanaged to that level. on more than one occasion we have FIRED a gm. that would one of the reasons. your game your rules well go play with yourself. come on guys we are out. games are supposed to be FUN

A lot of GMs don't have much fun when their only function is to service the players.

Oh, agreed. The best thing about my game is that classes are a little restricted and that I will say "no" to things. But we have a great time, no matter what system we're playing. I'm used to playing and running Champions, so Rifts is comparatively free-form.

But we have a good time, even though everything isn't allowed.

[kaid]

I prefer to run more tightly focused games, so I typically define a set of preapproved classes. I am open to a creative player offering a good story that fits his or her preferred class into my vision, but I usually won't throw the doors open.

I agree. I never just throw the doors open to just anything. I used to but not anymore. I had a group that was mostly scholars and scientists. There were two mercs to back them up. Then there was the Cosmo Knight. Even when they were out doing those morale and ethics type games, the Cosmo Knight would be like "wait here guys, I am just going to fly faster than light over to this planet and kick the crap out of these guys and I will be right back". Even if there was no combat planned for a session, he would cause it. It has been my experience that there is at least always one dude that wants to play that most powerful character he can find because all he wants to do is fight. He is not at the game for anything else.

I would have to double check but I don't think cosmo knights can go FTL inside the atmosphere and have to get out into space to engage it. Given the mess that is the rifts orbitals I would say you would have to clear all the debris fields before being able to go ftl. Hitting the counter rotating clouds of debris at FTL speeds would be instant death even to a cosmo knight. So during the time he is navigating out of the orbital debris fields all the orbital defenses in the area are going to light him up. Now a cosmo knight being a cosmo knight this probably won't kill him but losing quarter/half his total MDC each time he tries his lil around the world trick is going to be a hinderance for him to keep the shenannigans up.

[Icefalcon]

I prefer to run more tightly focused games, so I typically define a set of preapproved classes. I am open to a creative player offering a good story that fits his or her preferred class into my vision, but I usually won't throw the doors open.

I agree. I never just throw the doors open to just anything. I used to but not anymore. I had a group that was mostly scholars and scientists. There were two mercs to back them up. Then there was the Cosmo Knight. Even when they were out doing those morale and ethics type games, the Cosmo Knight would be like "wait here guys, I am just going to fly faster than light over to this planet and kick the crap out of these guys and I will be right back". Even if there was no combat planned for a session, he would cause it. It has been my experience that there is at least always one dude that wants to play that most powerful character he can find because all he wants to do is fight. He is not at the game for anything else.

I would have to double check but I don't think cosmo knights can go FTL inside the atmosphere and have to get out into space to engage it. Given the mess that is the rifts orbitals I would say you would have to clear all the debris fields before being able to go ftl. Hitting the counter rotating clouds of debris at FTL speeds would be instant death even to a cosmo knight. So during the time he is navigating out of the orbital debris fields all the orbital defenses in the area are going to light him up. Now a cosmo knight being a cosmo knight this probably won't kill him but losing quarter/half his total MDC each time he tries his lil around the world trick is going to be a hinderance for him to keep the shenannigans up.

First, I never said FTL from an atmosphere. The group would be doing something on one planet and he would travel to another just to start a fight. Second, you are assuming Rifts Earth. And even if he was on Earth, he would blast all of the debris and ships and everything else out of his way before jumping to FTL flight. Also, if they were on Rifts Earth, it would only require him to fly at whatever crazy Mach speed they are capable of to reach any other spot on Earth to start a fight where he can use a cosmic blast to obliterate anything that anyone could make by Earth standards. Coalition? Gone. NGR? Gone. Japan? Gone. He could destroy any of them with cosmic blasts. How are you supposed to keep the Coalition as bad guys when a Cosmo Knight can just waltz right up to Prosek and just kill him in front of everyone without taking 1/10th of his MDC in damage?

[jaymz]

I prefer to run more tightly focused games, so I typically define a set of preapproved classes. I am open to a creative player offering a good story that fits his or her preferred class into my vision, but I usually won't throw the doors open.

I agree. I never just throw the doors open to just anything. I used to but not anymore. I had a group that was mostly scholars and scientists. There were two mercs to back them up. Then there was the Cosmo Knight. Even when they were out doing those morale and ethics type games, the Cosmo Knight would be like "wait here guys, I am just going to fly faster than light over to this planet and kick the crap out of these guys and I will be right back". Even if there was no combat planned for a session, he would cause it. It has been my experience that there is at least always one dude that wants to play that most powerful character he can find because all he wants to do is fight. He is not at the game for anything else.

I would have to double check but I don't think cosmo knights can go FTL inside the atmosphere and have to get out into space to engage it. Given the mess that is the rifts orbitals I would say you would have to clear all the debris fields before being able to go ftl. Hitting the counter rotating clouds of debris at FTL speeds would be instant death even to a cosmo knight. So during the time he is navigating out of the orbital debris fields all the orbital defenses in the area are going to light him up. Now a cosmo knight being a cosmo knight this probably won't kill him but losing quarter/half his total MDC each time he tries his lil around the world trick is going to be a hinderance for him to keep the shenannigans up.

First, I never said FTL from an atmosphere. The group would be doing something on one planet and he would travel to another just to start a fight. Second, you are assuming Rifts Earth. And even if he was on Earth, he would blast all of the debris and ships and everything else out of his way before jumping to FTL flight. Also, if they were on Rifts Earth, it would only require him to fly at whatever crazy Mach speed they are capable of to reach any other spot on Earth to start a fight where he can use a cosmic blast to obliterate anything that anyone could make by Earth standards. Coalition? Gone. NGR? Gone. Japan? Gone. He could destroy any of them with cosmic blasts. How are you supposed to keep the Coalition as bad guys when a Cosmo Knight can just waltz right up to Prosek and just kill him in front of everyone without taking 1/10th of his MDC in damage?

Consdiering the proliferation of railgun use by the CS I;d dare say he's be hardpressed to not almost die if not die in the process. But thats just me.

[Jay05]

I prefer to run more tightly focused games, so I typically define a set of preapproved classes. I am open to a creative player offering a good story that fits his or her preferred class into my vision, but I usually won't throw the doors open.

I agree. I never just throw the doors open to just anything. I used to but not anymore. I had a group that was mostly scholars and scientists. There were two mercs to back them up. Then there was the Cosmo Knight. Even when they were out doing those morale and ethics type games, the Cosmo Knight would be like "wait here guys, I am just going to fly faster than light over to this planet and kick the crap out of these guys and I will be right back". Even if there was no combat planned for a session, he would cause it. It has been my experience that there is at least always one dude that wants to play that most powerful character he can find because all he wants to do is fight. He is not at the game for anything else.

I would have to double check but I don't think cosmo knights can go FTL inside the atmosphere and have to get out into space to engage it. Given the mess that is the rifts orbitals I would say you would have to clear all the debris fields before being able to go ftl. Hitting the counter rotating clouds of debris at FTL speeds would be instant death even to a cosmo knight. So during the time he is navigating out of the orbital debris fields all the orbital defenses in the area are going to light him up. Now a cosmo knight being a cosmo knight this probably won't kill him but losing quarter/half his total MDC each time he tries his lil around the world trick is going to be a hinderance for him to keep the shenannigans up.

First, I never said FTL from an atmosphere. The group would be doing something on one planet and he would travel to another just to start a fight. Second, you are assuming Rifts Earth. And even if he was on Earth, he would blast all of the debris and ships and everything else out of his way before jumping to FTL flight. Also, if they were on Rifts Earth, it would only require him to fly at whatever crazy Mach speed they are capable of to reach any other spot on Earth to start a fight where he can use a cosmic blast to obliterate anything that anyone could make by Earth standards. Coalition? Gone. NGR? Gone. Japan? Gone. He could destroy any of them with cosmic blasts. How are you supposed to keep the Coalition as bad guys when a Cosmo Knight can just waltz right up to Prosek and just kill him in front of everyone without taking 1/10th of his MDC in damage?

Your example assumes an an ****** player.

[DhAkael]

Hmmmm...
I've had problem players playing vagabonds before.
It's not the power scale more than the [censored]-hat factor; munchknin OCC/RCC's just amplify the douche factor is all.

I will admit to having problems with things like Dragons or Godlings though; I have yet to encounter a single solitary player who can pull-off a "natural" supernatural character.

For the most part though, if I have the book something is listed in, I'm willing to give the player a chance, provided there is a reason for the PC concept to even be involved with the story arc. If the player can't make a compelling argument?
"Too bad so sad NEXT!"

[Jay05]

Hmmmm...
I've had problem players playing vagabonds before.
It's not the power scale more than the [censored]-hat factor; munchknin OCC/RCC's just amplify the douche factor is all.

I will admit to having problems with things like Dragons or Godlings though; I have yet to encounter a single solitary player who can pull-off a "natural" supernatural character.

For the most part though, if I have the book something is listed in, I'm willing to give the player a chance, provided there is a reason for the PC concept to even be involved with the story arc. If the player can't make a compelling argument?
"Too bad so sad NEXT!"

I'm guessing that I'm pulling off the adventurer/mutant combination to your satisfaction then?

[DhAkael]

Hmmmm...
I've had problem players playing vagabonds before.
It's not the power scale more than the [censored]-hat factor; munchknin OCC/RCC's just amplify the douche factor is all.

I will admit to having problems with things like Dragons or Godlings though; I have yet to encounter a single solitary player who can pull-off a "natural" supernatural character.

For the most part though, if I have the book something is listed in, I'm willing to give the player a chance, provided there is a reason for the PC concept to even be involved with the story arc. If the player can't make a compelling argument?
"Too bad so sad NEXT!"

I'm guessing that I'm pulling off the adventurer/mutant combination to your satisfaction then?

Have I whacked you with a stick yet? ... no? Then there's your answer.

[Jay05]

lol cool thought so.

[GenThunderfist]

I prefer to run more tightly focused games, so I typically define a set of preapproved classes. I am open to a creative player offering a good story that fits his or her preferred class into my vision, but I usually won't throw the doors open.

I agree. I never just throw the doors open to just anything. I used to but not anymore. I had a group that was mostly scholars and scientists. There were two mercs to back them up. Then there was the Cosmo Knight. Even when they were out doing those morale and ethics type games, the Cosmo Knight would be like "wait here guys, I am just going to fly faster than light over to this planet and kick the crap out of these guys and I will be right back". Even if there was no combat planned for a session, he would cause it. It has been my experience that there is at least always one dude that wants to play that most powerful character he can find because all he wants to do is fight. He is not at the game for anything else.

I would have to double check but I don't think cosmo knights can go FTL inside the atmosphere and have to get out into space to engage it. Given the mess that is the rifts orbitals I would say you would have to clear all the debris fields before being able to go ftl. Hitting the counter rotating clouds of debris at FTL speeds would be instant death even to a cosmo knight. So during the time he is navigating out of the orbital debris fields all the orbital defenses in the area are going to light him up. Now a cosmo knight being a cosmo knight this probably won't kill him but losing quarter/half his total MDC each time he tries his lil around the world trick is going to be a hinderance for him to keep the shenannigans up.

First, I never said FTL from an atmosphere. The group would be doing something on one planet and he would travel to another just to start a fight. Second, you are assuming Rifts Earth. And even if he was on Earth, he would blast all of the debris and ships and everything else out of his way before jumping to FTL flight. Also, if they were on Rifts Earth, it would only require him to fly at whatever crazy Mach speed they are capable of to reach any other spot on Earth to start a fight where he can use a cosmic blast to obliterate anything that anyone could make by Earth standards. Coalition? Gone. NGR? Gone. Japan? Gone. He could destroy any of them with cosmic blasts. How are you supposed to keep the Coalition as bad guys when a Cosmo Knight can just waltz right up to Prosek and just kill him in front of everyone without taking 1/10th of his MDC in damage?

Consdiering the proliferation of railgun use by the CS I;d dare say he's be hardpressed to not almost die if not die in the process. But thats just me.

Not that I really care about whether or not CKs make sense in a Rifts Earth based game, or if I would let my player play one without the rest of the players being around the same power level (I wouldn't).
Railguns can't make up for the rules against hitting something that moves really fast. Even supposing the CK can't go FTL in atmosphere (I don't THINK it can, but don't quote me) they can still hit Mach bull**** and I THINK they can outfly a boomgun....I'll have to look that up later. Anyway, the point being is they can only be hit 5% of the time because they are moving so fast. Sure 5% of 10,000 is 500, but he would still have plenty of time to go around and kill most if not all his/her antagonizers.

[jaymz]

Not that I really care about whether or not CKs make sense in a Rifts Earth based game, or if I would let my player play one without the rest of the players being around the same power level (I wouldn't).
Railguns can't make up for the rules against hitting something that moves really fast. Even supposing the CK can't go FTL in atmosphere (I don't THINK it can, but don't quote me) they can still hit Mach bull**** and I THINK they can outfly a boomgun....I'll have to look that up later. Anyway, the point being is they can only be hit 5% of the time because they are moving so fast. Sure 5% of 10,000 is 500, but he would still have plenty of time to go around and kill most if not all his/her antagonizers.

You realize there is nothing that says HE wouldn't be just as penalized to hit anything by travelling at those speeds right?

[Icefalcon]

First, I never said FTL from an atmosphere. The group would be doing something on one planet and he would travel to another just to start a fight. Second, you are assuming Rifts Earth. And even if he was on Earth, he would blast all of the debris and ships and everything else out of his way before jumping to FTL flight. Also, if they were on Rifts Earth, it would only require him to fly at whatever crazy Mach speed they are capable of to reach any other spot on Earth to start a fight where he can use a cosmic blast to obliterate anything that anyone could make by Earth standards. Coalition? Gone. NGR? Gone. Japan? Gone. He could destroy any of them with cosmic blasts. How are you supposed to keep the Coalition as bad guys when a Cosmo Knight can just waltz right up to Prosek and just kill him in front of everyone without taking 1/10th of his MDC in damage?

Consdiering the proliferation of railgun use by the CS I;d dare say he's be hardpressed to not almost die if not die in the process. But thats just me.

True, but once inside a building (which he could fly into at mach 1 or more) railguns would be as much of a danger to the troops as it would be to the Cosmo Knight. Not to mention that his MDC will outlast the MDC of any body armor. At 500 MDC, plus the MDC of the knight (up to 300 at level one) plus the MDC of a force field (up to 600 at level 1), it will be rather hard to put him down before he can decimate troops wielding the railguns. Not to mention if he ducks under cover, he can let his MDC regenerate before continuing. Horror Factor would thin out the ranks even more.