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Killer Cyborg wrote:Always nice to be appreciated!

I actually had to look at the store to make sure that thing didn't really come out while I was gone. Successful troll was successful

Marrowlight wrote:

jaymz wrote:

Marrowlight wrote:I'm sure he wrote a wonderful book - but I'd sooner have seen Rifts: Sanitation and Waste Management of Chi-Town turned into a world book.

Have you not read it?

Skimmed upon release, purchased to show support for a fellow poster gone good and to help fill the struggling coffers of Palladium back in the day (Same with Arzno and the Shem sourcebook), but my RL gaming group left Palladium for D20 about 10 seconds after D20 products came out (Pathfinder hodge podge's are their current love, plus a lot of Green Ronin's DC game), and none of the stuff I've done online has gotten anywhere close to New York. So no, never gotten around to it.

Not trying to be a poke or anything but you really should read it before you decide it your least favourite book, don't you think?

Rifts Africa. Let's review.

1) Player characters in gameworld automatically upstaged by npcs.

2) Random Deity comes along to make everything okay.

3) Mind-Bogglingly racist to the point of it being painful.

4) Poorly written and researched. Africa 2 a necessity just to undo Africa 1.

5) Very little material not reprinted elsewhere.

jaymz wrote:Not trying to be a poke or anything but you really should read it before you decide it your least favourite book, don't you think?

Probably a good thing I didn't decide that then?

And nothing against TGK...but man I never wanted Madhaven expanded upon at all. Just an awful and cheesy idea, back when it was a paragraph blurb in the Erin Tarn fluff section. I'm sure he wrote a wonderful book - but I'd sooner have seen Rifts: Sanitation and Waste Management of Chi-Town turned into a world book.

Strangely enough I LIKED what they did with 'Madhaven' it's just... took too long to have anyone write the damned thing, even longer to publish (I.E.; Kickstarter for NG:1 & 2 PLUS the never ending delays for 'Megaverse in flames'...just saying PBooks gotta work fasta) and finally? What I developed over the course of my campaign far out-stripped ANYTHING actualy put-to-page for 'R:MHav'.

So for those who just don't have the time or are just lazy sods who don't do their own in-'verse development of stuff not yet covered; Madhaven is a middling to above avergae book. It just fell far short of what I'd done already. *shrug*

Now. For real hatred and loathing beyond all ken; The Siege of Tolkeen series (particualrly the wrap-up for them).
I wouldn't waste the effort to recycle them into toilet paper. I just feel sorry for the waste of tree and the spilled ink that went into 'em.

But I know a bunch of pseudo facists (no names) who enjoy the plot-sink they represent so...to each their own.

Marrowlight wrote:

jaymz wrote:Not trying to be a poke or anything but you really should read it before you decide it your least favourite book, don't you think?

Probably a good thing I didn't decide that then?

And nothing against TGK...but man I never wanted Madhaven expanded upon at all. Just an awful and cheesy idea, back when it was a paragraph blurb in the Erin Tarn fluff section. I'm sure he wrote a wonderful book - but I'd sooner have seen Rifts: Sanitation and Waste Management of Chi-Town turned into a world book.

Well to be fair you DID post 4 books

Should've posted more!



Like that crappy Triax 2...../runs forever from TGK ( <3 )

Marrowlight wrote:Should've posted more!

but this was for your LEAST favourite book not your not the best book

I didn't like the Game Master Guide or D-Bees of North America.

DhAkael wrote:Now. For real hatred and loathing beyond all ken; The Siege of Tolkeen series (particualrly the wrap-up for them).
I wouldn't waste the effort to recycle them into toilet paper. I just feel sorry for the waste of tree and the spilled ink that went into 'em.

But I know a bunch of pseudo facists (no names) who enjoy the plot-sink they represent so...to each their own.

Is it because the CS won? Or were there actual reasons you didn't like the wrap up?

And by the way, in regards to the cybernight-centric book, turning them into anti-tech jedi was one of the worst things they could have done.

To the individual who will be un-named;
1) Because the CS won in such a mind bogglingly Deus-Ex Machina manner. I had no problems with the CS winning; just that it made no [censored] sense...no matter how many times I read the books.
2) The anti-tech powers given to the Cyberkannigits out-of-the-blue WAS stupid in the most extreme sense. The deliniation of the various 'themes' / orders of the knights however, was not.

cyberdon wrote:I didn't like the Game Master Guide or D-Bees of North America.

-GMG was trying to be too many things at once and failing at all.
-D-bee's of North Am was / is the Munchkin's play-book (pre-existing D-Bee's got massive power boosts).

Gotta go with the novels on this...BIG disappointment for me.

I've generally found something I can use/build on in even the BAD sourcebooks/world books, but the novels just felt...well, bland to me.

Alrik Vas wrote:

DhAkael wrote:Now. For real hatred and loathing beyond all ken; The Siege of Tolkeen series (particualrly the wrap-up for them).
I wouldn't waste the effort to recycle them into toilet paper. I just feel sorry for the waste of tree and the spilled ink that went into 'em.

But I know a bunch of pseudo facists (no names) who enjoy the plot-sink they represent so...to each their own.

Is it because the CS won? Or were there actual reasons you didn't like the wrap up?

And by the way, in regards to the cybernight-centric book, turning them into anti-tech jedi was one of the worst things they could have done.

Found the books did not fit my idea of the world, but liked alot of the ideas. Personally I would have shot Erin Tarn during her little speach!

Alrik Vas wrote:And by the way, in regards to the cybernight-centric book, turning them into anti-tech jedi was one of the worst things they could have done.

DhAkael wrote:2) The anti-tech powers given to the Cyberkannigits out-of-the-blue WAS stupid in the most extreme sense. The deliniation of the various 'themes' / orders of the knights however, was not.

I'd have had a less of an issue with this had they given a dedicated anti-supernatural version as well along with a jack of all trades version (partly anti-tech partly anit-supernatural). This to me would have been a better representation of the focus of an individual Knight and boosted them versus the opponents they would likely face in a way that made sense.

Rathask wrote:

jaymz wrote:I'd have had a less of an issue with this had they given a dedicated anti-supernatural version as well along with a jack of all trades version (partly anti-tech partly anit-supernatural). This to me would have been a better representation of the focus of an individual Knight and boosted them versus the opponents they would likely face in a way that made sense.

They could still do this; in fact, I hope they do. I found the anti-technology (only) Cyber-Knight doesn't really fit the image of a noble hero knight battling the supernatural forces trying to consume our poor world that Cyber-Knights were originally protrayed as being.

For my least-favorite book, I'm going to have to go with Xiticix Invasion. With the worker, warrior, and queen listed in the original main book, I just don't see any reason to have a full book about them unless it also covered a war to eradicate them with people, equipment, O.C.C.'s, magic, and the like.

Special mention goes to England for not being sufficiently fleshed out. However, the Temporal classes and the Chiang-Ku keep this on my "must have" list.

I agree that england was not perfect but there was alot of usable materials. I did not like what they did to the gods, and would have prefered they did not make London an atlantis satalite colony.

Rathask wrote:

jaymz wrote:

For my least-favorite book, I'm going to have to go with Xiticix Invasion. With the worker, warrior, and queen listed in the original main book, I just don't see any reason to have a full book about them unless it also covered a war to eradicate them with people, equipment, O.C.C.'s, magic, and the like.

Ah, but if you remember, not only do they discuss that Lazlo will be going to war with the Xiticix, they also give two options for how they will do it, then they flush one of them out, with a battleplan, general squads, how they think it will turn out, how it will actually turn out, and even how people who fight in that war will be viewed in the years to come, and the differences between the perception of that war and the Tolkeen war. The big difference is that they don't actually pull the trigger and make it happen, it's all in their, but as far as I can tell, books that come afterwards still assume it hasn't happened yet.

Eashamahel wrote:

Rathask wrote:

jaymz wrote:

For my least-favorite book, I'm going to have to go with Xiticix Invasion. With the worker, warrior, and queen listed in the original main book, I just don't see any reason to have a full book about them unless it also covered a war to eradicate them with people, equipment, O.C.C.'s, magic, and the like.

Ah, but if you remember, not only do they discuss that Lazlo will be going to war with the Xiticix, they also give two options for how they will do it, then they flush one of them out, with a battleplan, general squads, how they think it will turn out, how it will actually turn out, and even how people who fight in that war will be viewed in the years to come, and the differences between the perception of that war and the Tolkeen war. The big difference is that they don't actually pull the trigger and make it happen, it's all in their, but as far as I can tell, books that come afterwards still assume it hasn't happened yet.

Oh Lazlo yes the book we were promised when the game first came out. The City that stated if the coalition when to war with Tolkeen they would stand with Tolkeen and then stood by doing nothing forcing Tolkeen to take extreme measures trying to save itself and its people. What lame @$$ excuse will they give for not lifting a finger to help. PS sending a few squads is not helping.

Balabanto wrote:Rifts Africa. Let's review.

1) Player characters in gameworld automatically upstaged by npcs.

2) Random Deity comes along to make everything okay.

3) Mind-Bogglingly racist to the point of it being painful.

4) Poorly written and researched. Africa 2 a necessity just to undo Africa 1.

5) Very little material not reprinted elsewhere.

I would concur rifts africa I think overall would have been much better if the space used on the four horsemen was actually used for describing more of africa. There is so much that could have been done with it I found the africa book a bit dissapointing.

That said even the books I am not as fond of such as rifts africa and wormwood have all had useful and interesting stuff in them. Overall the product quality of palladium has been excellent over the years and even the few books I am not as fond of still wind up being reasonably well utilized.

boxee wrote: Oh Lazlo yes the book we were promised when the game first came out. The City that stated if the coalition when to war with Tolkeen they would stand with Tolkeen and then stood by doing nothing forcing Tolkeen to take extreme measures trying to save itself and its people. What lame @$$ excuse will they give for not lifting a finger to help. PS sending a few squads is not helping.

Oh yeah, trying to run a game involving the War On Tolkeen is incredibly painful, ESPECIALLY when your group are not actually hard-core Rifts fans, and don't already know everything about it, you just CANNOT explain why certain nations/people do certain things.

For Lazlo, their decision made perfect sense when they were waving their hands in the air, trying to get everyone to pay attention to the Xiticix, and eventually going to war with the Xiticix independently, as it was the greater threat. If the CS had of attacked Tolkeen, been rebuffed by Tolkeen and Lazlo, and Tolkeen executed a largescale counter attack instead of helping Lazlo deal with the bug men, leading to Tolkeen biting off more than it could chew and then losing, it would make sense.

Instead, not only does Lazlo NOT help Tolkeen, which means a nation of scholars ACTIVELY ALLOWING a genocide to occur on an unprecedented scale (for PA North America), but they apparantly don't even fight the Xiticix. They literally do nothing. At all.

The CS is ATTACKING Tolkeen, they are the aggressors, nothing about their history indicates they will do anything less than kill every man, woman and child in the city, and yet...

I have found in Rifts, it's best not to let PC's ever meet any important NPCs, because their is just no way you can play those NPCs to not sound insane or just wrong. New players decide that Lazlo is not militarily powerful enough to get involved, or they are too scared of the CS to do anything and hope they will be left alone or that they are a nation too self absorbed in what they do to care about the plight of another nation, even one that pleads for their help, basically jaded old wizards in towers. That the Cyber Knights are too spread out to be a real help, and that their leader(s) are too afraid of being wiped out and thus not able to help anyone else again, and on and on, they come to conclusions that make total sense, but are wrong. Thankfully, few go on to read the War On Tolkeen series (though one is doing so right now, and he messages me several times a book/day with 'huh????' questions), or very many other world books in their entirety (Mercanaries is a good one, wasn't this company helping this side? It says these guys could sway the war? Xiticix invasion as well for the Lazlo stuff above, ect).


I don't think they could ever do a Lazlo book, it's too late, it's time has passed, and there's no way you can make them the super-good-guys they are supposed to be. And War on Tolkeen failed for a reason. Great concept. Terrible execution.

kaid wrote:
I would concur rifts africa I think overall would have been much better if the space used on the four horsemen was actually used for describing more of africa. There is so much that could have been done with it I found the africa book a bit dissapointing.

I think Africa is a good example of the 'one big bad per book' system that was early in place, but one thing that always could have been done to save space for world information would have been to actually use things presented in the Rulebook, as opposed to pretending very little of it existed for each new book. Making Shaman's Mystics instead of making new versions every time, ect would have left a lot of space.

I very much want a Lazlo book to come out as I am really curious about how they handle the outcome of the CS wars. I have to imagine the leaders of lazlo have to be concentrating on either a way to teleport the city elsewhere or everybody picking up and leaving to remake the city some place farther away from the CS.

Having chosen to not stand with tolkeen they pretty much sealed their fate. They did not lift their hand to help tolkeen and nobody is going to lift a hand to help them when it is there turn and that turn will likely be sooner rather than later. That the CS will come in and crush them is more of a matter of when they get around to it than anything.

Really the only hope lazlo had of surviving was throwing in fully opening a second front vs the CS and hoping the federation of magic decided to pile on as well. Now it suffers from the same problem tolkeen had one simple target or two if they take new lazlo at the same time where if the CS knocks those two targets out they win which is pretty much ideal situation for the CS military.

Well mostly becuase they are pointless now but index one and two......also the new conversion book is not revised its hacked up and not worth as much as the old one.

Ngr2 was disapointing in that it makes it hard to see how the gargoyles still are not under wrap,

Little Snuzzles wrote:The Hairdresser TechnoWizard Sourcebook was just plain awful.

2D6x10 MD with a blowdryer? Get real.

I thought the comb of toth was a great spell, copy any hairstyle you can find in a magazine and have come out righr? Thats great.
Also the brodkil hair care line was ultra inspired

Come to think of it, I really didn't think much of Black Vault either...to the point where I only have the vaguest notion of where my copy is currently lying/buried. Seems most of the Vaults' contents were mystic swizzlesticks or their equivalents...

kaid wrote:I very much want a Lazlo book to come out as I am really curious about how they handle the outcome of the CS wars. I have to imagine the leaders of lazlo have to be concentrating on either a way to teleport the city elsewhere or everybody picking up and leaving to remake the city some place farther away from the CS.

Having chosen to not stand with tolkeen they pretty much sealed their fate. They did not lift their hand to help tolkeen and nobody is going to lift a hand to help them when it is there turn and that turn will likely be sooner rather than later. That the CS will come in and crush them is more of a matter of when they get around to it than anything.

Really the only hope lazlo had of surviving was throwing in fully opening a second front vs the CS and hoping the federation of magic decided to pile on as well. Now it suffers from the same problem tolkeen had one simple target or two if they take new lazlo at the same time where if the CS knocks those two targets out they win which is pretty much ideal situation for the CS military.

I am actually rather certain that post war on Tolkeen books, maybe Aftermath, it's stated that Lazlo is now confident they can survive and defeat CS attacks from what they learned form watching the CS-Tolkeen war.

And even if a Lazlo book was written, none of the logical questions that would have arisen from their actions would be answered, and it would not address anything about their reaction to aggressive CS expansion. It would re-hash the 'Tolkeen sold themselves to evil supernatural forces, just like Lazlo knew they would, so they were right in not joining in and thus forcing Tolkeen to sell themselves to supernatural forces to survive' circular logic that was used originally for why they didn't join in.

Also, cool though it would have been way back when, I just don't think Palladium Books could possibly pull it off now. Oh, and they would have to fill a 200+ page book about new OCCs, new D-Bees, two new types of magic, ect.

Eashamahel wrote:

kaid wrote:I very much want a Lazlo book to come out as I am really curious about how they handle the outcome of the CS wars. I have to imagine the leaders of lazlo have to be concentrating on either a way to teleport the city elsewhere or everybody picking up and leaving to remake the city some place farther away from the CS.

Having chosen to not stand with tolkeen they pretty much sealed their fate. They did not lift their hand to help tolkeen and nobody is going to lift a hand to help them when it is there turn and that turn will likely be sooner rather than later. That the CS will come in and crush them is more of a matter of when they get around to it than anything.

Really the only hope lazlo had of surviving was throwing in fully opening a second front vs the CS and hoping the federation of magic decided to pile on as well. Now it suffers from the same problem tolkeen had one simple target or two if they take new lazlo at the same time where if the CS knocks those two targets out they win which is pretty much ideal situation for the CS military.

I am actually rather certain that post war on Tolkeen books, maybe Aftermath, it's stated that Lazlo is now confident they can survive and defeat CS attacks from what they learned form watching the CS-Tolkeen war.

And even if a Lazlo book was written, none of the logical questions that would have arisen from their actions would be answered, and it would not address anything about their reaction to aggressive CS expansion. It would re-hash the 'Tolkeen sold themselves to evil supernatural forces, just like Lazlo knew they would, so they were right in not joining in and thus forcing Tolkeen to sell themselves to supernatural forces to survive' circular logic that was used originally for why they didn't join in.

Also, cool though it would have been way back when, I just don't think Palladium Books could possibly pull it off now. Oh, and they would have to fill a 200+ page book about new OCCs, new D-Bees, two new types of magic, ect.

I agree they blew the chance to make Lazlo a good book at all. They also in my opinion cemented my view on Erin Tarn, her "I told you so" speach was pure @$$.

Yeah, unfortunately you are probably right. The thing is, since those books are cannon, everything has to support them, so Tarn has to come out and completely support Lazlo, go against everything she should know about the CS, and then make the stand that any reasonable person knew it would turn out that way. As the books progress, Tarn is harder and harder to like.

So, Little Snuzzles, given that your contributions to the thread have been strictly books that do not exist, are we to take it that you feel all of the books are great, and that there isn't a single weak link across the entirety of the line?

Edit: to clarify, as far as I know they don't exist.

For all I know there was a TW Hairstylists book. It wouldn't be completely out of place, given Rifts as a whole.

One of my players made a TW washing machine with the new cleanse (I think that is the one) spell. You could do a lot of neat, basic stuff with techno-wizardry.

That being said, I think Snuzzles is trying to be funny. Probably best to just give him a chuckle and move on.

Eashamahel wrote:One of my players made a TW washing machine with the new cleanse (I think that is the one) spell. You could do a lot of neat, basic stuff with techno-wizardry.

That being said, I think Snuzzles is trying to be funny. Probably best to just give him a chuckle and move on.

I am sure he is as well.

Panomas wrote:The Rifts Novels-

I was going to rack my brain thinking of the pros and cons of all the sourcebooks on my shelf, but I don't have to. Rifts: Sonic Boom may not be an RPG sourcebook, but it is the worst Rifts book I have ever owned and one of the worst books I've ever read, period. The only published novel I've ever read that was even more painful to read than Sonic Boom was The Turner Diaries.

As for my least favourite gamebook, I'll go with Pantheons Of The Megaverse, aka The Big Book Of NPCs That Your Party Will Never Meet And Which Will Never Be Mentioned Again. I'm not a big fan of NPC books in the first place, and this is an NPC book full of characters that just will not fit into a campaign unless it's specifically designed to revolve around the characters from this book.

But Midgard Serpent Monster tattoo's for your Undead Slayer! Soooo necessary.

Eashamahel wrote:That being said, I think Snuzzles is trying to be funny. Probably best to just give him a chuckle and move on.

Oh, I agree with the first part. The problem is that they're trying way too hard.

Considering their attitude in other threads regarding perceived negativity/criticism about Rifts, it comes across as patronizing. Condescending even.

No book I truly dislike but to add to others comments:

Africa - I found the enemies to be either SDC or gods. Struggling to run a campaign using all of the material with the same Characters. Although I actually like all the content.

Psyscape - No flow to the book. Seemed random and seperate. Super powerful alien intelligence; Very little fleshing out of Psyscape as a city. Good PCC's. Totally random book of monsters. Four Rifter articles put together. Seemed like there was an idea for some good PCC's and there needed to be a book to put them in. Having said that, the contents are good - just random and doesn't flow.

England - HATE London of Splynn. Not needed, stupid name. Also hate the Chiang-Ku. I know they are megaversal but the majority on Rifts Earth are in England and they will always be Chinese Dragons to me. I dislike them as the creators of tattoo magic also.

Getting some stuff off my chest there but that isnt half bad for the hundred or so books! WD PB's!!

The Dark Elf wrote:No book I truly dislike but to add to others comments:

Africa - I found the enemies to be either SDC or gods. Struggling to run a campaign using all of the material with the same Characters. Although I actually like all the content.

Psyscape - No flow to the book. Seemed random and seperate. Super powerful alien intelligence; Very little fleshing out of Psyscape as a city. Good PCC's. Totally random book of monsters. Four Rifter articles put together. Seemed like there was an idea for some good PCC's and there needed to be a book to put them in. Having said that, the contents are good - just random and doesn't flow.

England - HATE London of Splynn. Not needed, stupid name. Also hate the Chiang-Ku. I know they are megaversal but the majority on Rifts Earth are in England and they will always be Chinese Dragons to me. I dislike them as the creators of tattoo magic also.

Getting some stuff off my chest there but that isnt half bad for the hundred or so books! WD PB's!!

Agree

Forar wrote:

Eashamahel wrote:That being said, I think Snuzzles is trying to be funny. Probably best to just give him a chuckle and move on.

Oh, I agree with the first part. The problem is that they're trying way too hard.

Considering their attitude in other threads regarding perceived negativity/criticism about Rifts, it comes across as patronizing. Condescending even.

Very much this. Snuzzles can be downright weird about criticism of Palladium sometimes.

Well, I started posting here a few years ago now, took a long break, and only briefly came back, but from my experience, he seems like a fellow who enjoys his time here, and the character he protrays while doing so doesn't really subtract from the discussion, just rarely adds to it. Random and occasionally contrary just to be contrary, it would seem, but not that bad, in n the grand scheme of things.

I wonder if there is a specific book to which different players can trace where their vision of the game went off course?

I liked the (North America specific) releases up to and including Juicer Uprising, was not a big fan of aliens being behind it all, but still loved the book. Coalition War Campaign was very neat, but I didn't really feel the need for all the new stuff, especially as the CS was about to go to war, I kind of wanted to see the CS, the original skull faced bad guys, do it, but I suppose looking back that even though they had never done anything big in-game timeline before, they had existed as the original version for quite a few years by that point. Hmm...

You know, it might be Xiticix Invasion. That might be my least favourite, because it might be where I can trace my problems back to. I loved the Xiticix, right from the beginning, particularly loved how they were worked into different fluff bits in Mercenaries and a few other books. I also loved Invasion when I was younger, all the info about them, how different things work, their organization, all great. Buuuut... That book is also when they went from doing minor MD with power punches, to suddenly having Supernatural strength and MD weapons, doing multi-armed attacks and super combat moves, the suddenly became able to deal an incredibly amount of damage in combat, got their bonuses jacked WAY up, and just got a power jump across the board (except for their ranged weapons). To me that might be when Rifts went and became a super-hero punch out style battle.

RIFTS Australia. I read it twice and I can't remember anything cool about it...and the Koala people are The Ewoks of RIFTS! Aghhh...

I actually have a different theory when it comes to non-North America world books, which is that most are one off's, like Japan, England, Australia, ect (or two part'ers which work like a big one off, like Russia) and don't have the same progressive storyline as the MAIN storyline from North America. Because of this, they have the ability to be and often are significantly unique in concept, with a different tone, power level or whole different concept for Rifts.

I don't mind that, because even if I don't like a certain World Book (was never a fan of South America, for instance), since it is a non-main storyline book, it doesn't effect my enjoyment of 'normal' Rifts, only if I choose to play in that area/to that theme.


On a different note, I have never actually read Australia, but one of my best friends loves it so much that he has standing permission to play anything from it in any game I run!

Least Favorite...hummmm
(To some this will not be a surprise, will not be going into the reasons.)


RUE.

Worst book? Africa without a doubt. With the exception of the Necromancer OCC, this book is utterly useless. I still have yet to figure out how none of the NPC's were black, reminds me to much of the old Great White hunter idea, and seemed racist. idk, maybe I'm reading to much into it, but it seems like Africa would have benefited from some native NPC's rather then an influx of 'Heroes'.

Honorable mentions!

War on tolkeen series, the Cyber Knight Rehash where CK's went from defenders of the innocent against supernatural foes to Anti-Tech Jedi is simply a huh??? are you thinking moment. Honestly this series never should have seen the light of day. Poorly written, with no understanding of military tactics or strategy. It's just badly written, conceived and portrayed. New TW gear? Sure. But put it in a Tolkeen Sourcebook or something.

Canada: Theres so little information in this book about Canada that why even publish it?

Spirit West: This book is confused about itself, with blurry lines between Traditionalists, and Renegades. The books text describes the Renegades as a sort of cross between the two extreme views in the book( which btw make no sense really.) of Traditionalist, and Modern. Yet the OCC description seems to forget this. You have to work hard to rework the book to make it playable in the setting, since every book that comes out seems to ignore it. Not to mention Spirit West disputes a lot of New West. All in all poorly written and edited, and mostly junk.

Xit Invasion: Lets see, awesome Rifter article, blown up and made larger, fleshed out complete with war efforts by the hippy's Lazlo! Sounds great, except the book is completely and utterly ignored by the rest of the series of books, thus rendering it less then canon in my mind. Oh, and lets not forget that the book itself was ignored by the Tolkeen series, thus allowing Jericho to save the day, and it should have been left a Rifter Article.

Eashamahel wrote:Well, I started posting here a few years ago now, took a long break, and only briefly came back, but from my experience, he seems like a fellow who enjoys his time here, and the character he protrays while doing so doesn't really subtract from the discussion, just rarely adds to it. Random and occasionally contrary just to be contrary, it would seem, but not that bad, in n the grand scheme of things.

I wonder if there is a specific book to which different players can trace where their vision of the game went off course?

I liked the (North America specific) releases up to and including Juicer Uprising, was not a big fan of aliens being behind it all, but still loved the book. Coalition War Campaign was very neat, but I didn't really feel the need for all the new stuff, especially as the CS was about to go to war, I kind of wanted to see the CS, the original skull faced bad guys, do it, but I suppose looking back that even though they had never done anything big in-game timeline before, they had existed as the original version for quite a few years by that point. Hmm...

You know, it might be Xiticix Invasion. That might be my least favourite, because it might be where I can trace my problems back to. I loved the Xiticix, right from the beginning, particularly loved how they were worked into different fluff bits in Mercenaries and a few other books. I also loved Invasion when I was younger, all the info about them, how different things work, their organization, all great. Buuuut... That book is also when they went from doing minor MD with power punches, to suddenly having Supernatural strength and MD weapons, doing multi-armed attacks and super combat moves, the suddenly became able to deal an incredibly amount of damage in combat, got their bonuses jacked WAY up, and just got a power jump across the board (except for their ranged weapons). To me that might be when Rifts went and became a super-hero punch out style battle.

Yep Atlantis, power creep started. They totally changed what Atlantis should have been IMO. Too much space for one power. Game went from small kingdoms fighting it out to inter galatic armies sitting on rifts earth.
I really do not see the racism in Africa sorry. You want to add "native" heroes go for it.

boxee wrote:

Eashamahel wrote:Well, I started posting here a few years ago now, took a long break, and only briefly came back, but from my experience, he seems like a fellow who enjoys his time here, and the character he protrays while doing so doesn't really subtract from the discussion, just rarely adds to it. Random and occasionally contrary just to be contrary, it would seem, but not that bad, in n the grand scheme of things.

I wonder if there is a specific book to which different players can trace where their vision of the game went off course?

I liked the (North America specific) releases up to and including Juicer Uprising, was not a big fan of aliens being behind it all, but still loved the book. Coalition War Campaign was very neat, but I didn't really feel the need for all the new stuff, especially as the CS was about to go to war, I kind of wanted to see the CS, the original skull faced bad guys, do it, but I suppose looking back that even though they had never done anything big in-game timeline before, they had existed as the original version for quite a few years by that point. Hmm...

You know, it might be Xiticix Invasion. That might be my least favourite, because it might be where I can trace my problems back to. I loved the Xiticix, right from the beginning, particularly loved how they were worked into different fluff bits in Mercenaries and a few other books. I also loved Invasion when I was younger, all the info about them, how different things work, their organization, all great. Buuuut... That book is also when they went from doing minor MD with power punches, to suddenly having Supernatural strength and MD weapons, doing multi-armed attacks and super combat moves, the suddenly became able to deal an incredibly amount of damage in combat, got their bonuses jacked WAY up, and just got a power jump across the board (except for their ranged weapons). To me that might be when Rifts went and became a super-hero punch out style battle.

Yep Atlantis, power creep started. They totally changed what Atlantis should have been IMO. Too much space for one power. Game went from small kingdoms fighting it out to inter galatic armies sitting on rifts earth.
I really do not see the racism in Africa sorry. You want to add "native" heroes go for it.

Hell, you don't even have to open the Africa book to find it. Just turn to your friendly neighborhood RUE.

"Although there are a few kingdoms and some technology, most people, human and D-Bee [nice attempt to cover their base here by tossing in D-Bee], have returned to tribal ways and magic. Here again, we see contrast in the lives of the people where poverty and hardship are common yet the people all seem happy and appreciative of each other and the little they have"

Why should the Africans, with their massive resource-rich continent, strive for advances in technology that rival the powers of the Megaverse, like the Europeans, South Americans, North Americans, Asians, and Australians have, when they can just be poor but happy!



At least KC's "beloved" Nobles Savages in Spirit West are at least powerful. The Africans didn't even get that much.

Beyond the stereotypes, anyone with even two weeks of basic undergraduate historical training on any one region of Africa (or just the ability to read wikipedia or modern news of African nations in the here and now) could tell you what a colossal massive gigantic offense waste of time the Africa book was, in comparison to what could have been created.

Rifts England being 160 pages about how everyone's abandoned civilization and is instead happy running around nearly naked and building stone shrines around ley lines would still be a step up from Rifts Africa's depiction of the native populace.

Marrowlight wrote:

boxee wrote:

Eashamahel wrote:Well, I started posting here a few years ago now, took a long break, and only briefly came back, but from my experience, he seems like a fellow who enjoys his time here, and the character he protrays while doing so doesn't really subtract from the discussion, just rarely adds to it. Random and occasionally contrary just to be contrary, it would seem, but not that bad, in n the grand scheme of things.

I wonder if there is a specific book to which different players can trace where their vision of the game went off course?

I liked the (North America specific) releases up to and including Juicer Uprising, was not a big fan of aliens being behind it all, but still loved the book. Coalition War Campaign was very neat, but I didn't really feel the need for all the new stuff, especially as the CS was about to go to war, I kind of wanted to see the CS, the original skull faced bad guys, do it, but I suppose looking back that even though they had never done anything big in-game timeline before, they had existed as the original version for quite a few years by that point. Hmm...

You know, it might be Xiticix Invasion. That might be my least favourite, because it might be where I can trace my problems back to. I loved the Xiticix, right from the beginning, particularly loved how they were worked into different fluff bits in Mercenaries and a few other books. I also loved Invasion when I was younger, all the info about them, how different things work, their organization, all great. Buuuut... That book is also when they went from doing minor MD with power punches, to suddenly having Supernatural strength and MD weapons, doing multi-armed attacks and super combat moves, the suddenly became able to deal an incredibly amount of damage in combat, got their bonuses jacked WAY up, and just got a power jump across the board (except for their ranged weapons). To me that might be when Rifts went and became a super-hero punch out style battle.

Yep Atlantis, power creep started. They totally changed what Atlantis should have been IMO. Too much space for one power. Game went from small kingdoms fighting it out to inter galatic armies sitting on rifts earth.
I really do not see the racism in Africa sorry. You want to add "native" heroes go for it.

Hell, you don't even have to open the Africa book to find it. Just turn to your friendly neighborhood RUE.

"Although there are a few kingdoms and some technology, most people, human and D-Bee [nice attempt to cover their base here by tossing in D-Bee], have returned to tribal ways and magic. Here again, we see contrast in the lives of the people where poverty and hardship are common yet the people all seem happy and appreciative of each other and the little they have"

Why should the Africans, with their massive resource-rich continent, strive for advances in technology that rival the powers of the Megaverse, like the Europeans, South Americans, North Americans, Asians, and Australians have, when they can just be poor but happy!



At least KC's "beloved" Nobles Savages in Spirit West are at least powerful. The Africans didn't even get that much.

Beyond the stereotypes, anyone with even two weeks of basic undergraduate historical training on any one region of Africa (or just the ability to read wikipedia or modern news of African nations in the here and now) could tell you what a colossal massive gigantic offense waste of time the Africa book was, in comparison to what could have been created.

Rifts England being 160 pages about how everyone's abandoned civilization and is instead happy running around nearly naked and building stone shrines around ley lines would still be a step up from Rifts Africa's depiction of the native populace.

Not the feeling I got from either book sorry, might just be me.

Couldn't agree more.

Although for me the Madhaven was crap, mostly because I have a profound hate for the artwork of Bradshaw, and there was way to much of his work in there.

boxee wrote:

Marrowlight wrote: Not the feeling I got from either book sorry, might just be me.

Me neither. Most Rifts world books are simply "Take the cool/roleplayable aspects of that lands historical cultures and give them a cool modernised twist!" Which is what I like.

It might not be the feeling you got, but I can see what he means as that's what he actually wrote about the people there. It doesn't help that Africa is more of an adventure book for the 4 horsemen then an actual look at what life is like in the Continent.


Daniel Stoker

Daniel Stoker wrote:It might not be the feeling you got, but I can see what he means as that's what he actually wrote about the people there. It doesn't help that Africa is more of an adventure book for the 4 horsemen then an actual look at what life is like in the Continent.


Daniel Stoker

And this is exactly why I can't stand the book either.

But I didn't pick it as my least favourite because at least it came from a time when they were still trying something different with every new book. Rifts Africa was different, and while it was an incredibly crappy flavour of different, at least it tried to bring something new to the table.

Rallan wrote:

Daniel Stoker wrote:It might not be the feeling you got, but I can see what he means as that's what he actually wrote about the people there. It doesn't help that Africa is more of an adventure book for the 4 horsemen then an actual look at what life is like in the Continent.


Daniel Stoker

And this is exactly why I can't stand the book either.

But I didn't pick it as my least favourite because at least it came from a time when they were still trying something different with every new book. Rifts Africa was different, and while it was an incredibly crappy flavour of different, at least it tried to bring something new to the table.

What do you expect the Africa book is mainly just one big adventure, with supporting classes.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

Rallan wrote:

Daniel Stoker wrote:It might not be the feeling you got, but I can see what he means as that's what he actually wrote about the people there. It doesn't help that Africa is more of an adventure book for the 4 horsemen then an actual look at what life is like in the Continent.


Daniel Stoker

And this is exactly why I can't stand the book either.

But I didn't pick it as my least favourite because at least it came from a time when they were still trying something different with every new book. Rifts Africa was different, and while it was an incredibly crappy flavour of different, at least it tried to bring something new to the table.

What do you expect the Africa book is mainly just one big adventure, with supporting classes.

But it could have been so much more then that. Africa had the potential to be something great, or at least decent. In the forward for the book KS tells us he read all this stuff about africa......and then promptly forgot it for a pseudo judo-christian idea that's is rendered mostly useless by the books conclusion.