glitterboy2098 wrote:obviously it wouldn't effect the spiritual side of the tree's test. but the physiocal side is about surviving having a sword or spear impale you, and then hanging there on it. humans are going to bleed out in hours, much less the days needed for the tree's test. but someone with regen would, at the very least, be able to avoid systemic organ failure from the wound and loss of blood. which should make it possible for them to at least attempt it without some sort of medical team on site.
The way that the Yggdrasil Ordeal is written, its "nullification abilities" go both ways.
Since most creatures of our biological complexity cannot survive nine days and nights without water (no, the recycling systems of creatures like Kangaroo Rats, or drinking one's own urine doesn't count), it is therefore safe to assume that not only does Yggdrasil nullify super-powers and abilities in creatures who would otherwise easily be able to survive the process, it also magically sustains those individuals who normally, surely perish from the combination of no food, no water, and the systemic damage that would come from an impalement of any sort combined with the aforementioned deprivation.
Like the joke about Gravity, it's not the long "journey down" with Yggdrasil that can kill you, it's the sudden "stop" at the end.......
An interesting and good point. Which would play up the more spiritual aspect of things, the tree is testing your worthiness and while the test is centered around PE for determining success it's more a thing of trial of the essence so it keeps you going until the very end (but better keep a lot of water handy for when it's over). Either that or the writer (most likely) forgot that aspect of biology or figured you'd simply arrange to have water handy.
Fair warning: I consider being called a munchkin a highly offensive slur and do report people when they err in doing so.
'Reality is very disappointing.' - Jonathan Switcher from Mannequin
It's 'canon', not 'cannon'. A cannon is a big gun like on pirate ships, canon is what you mean when referring to something as being contained within one of the books such as how many dice to roll for a stat.
Hávamál wrote: I know that I hung on a windy tree nine long nights, wounded with a spear, dedicated to Odin, myself to myself, on that tree of which no man knows from where its roots run.
No bread did they give me nor a drink from a horn, downwards I peered; I took up the runes, screaming I took them, then I fell back from there.
Though apparently Odin may have hung himself, rather than impaled himself on the tree. He only stabbed himself with the spear.
i suspect that when writing Pantheons, that was just read as "hung himself via spear"
but in the original myth it was likely supposed to be by rope.. there is a lot of reference to hanging people in trees in writings associated with the norse. specifically, hanging animals (and supposedly the occasional human) in trees to die as part of a sacrifice. this is usually associated with places of worship of Odin. you see similar sacrifice methods in some of the other cultures in the area that didn't share the share the same pantheon, so odds are the practice predates the odin myth. Odin basically offered himself as a sacrifice to Odin.. but being a Deity he didn't die the same way as mortals and was able to come back.
and you can interpret the entry in Pantheons in a way to support either the tree supporting ones life during the test, or as things like bleeding out being a factor.. its annoyingly vague on the important details.
i would say that going by the original myth, since Odin was supposed to have "died" that life support is an issue.. but from a gameplay perspective, the tree keeping the person alive works pretty well.
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Hotrod wrote:A slightly off-topic segue: Has anyone used Yggdrasil's Gift of Knowledge in an actual campaign/adventure? Did it work effectively? Was it a compelling aspect of the story? Did the character remain a viable part of the group, or was his/her power jump game-breaking?
I don't understand how fellow GMs ever see certain things as "game breaking." In RIFTs, there's always a bigger fish, so there is nothing that PCs can have or do that is "game breaking." I have had PCs, that were played for 8 years and who acquired an assortment of powerful knowledge and equipment, who were killed by low level nothings armed with basic M.D. weapons because these low level NPCs zerged them and the PCs refused to retreat trusting to their great power. The only "game breaking" that I can see is if you have some PCs gaining much more power than others and lording over them, but that is easily fixed as well (storyline that their great equipment gets stolen or make an NPC that humiliates or kills them if the PC does not follow your rule of not bullying others).
To be honest, I have never experienced or had to do the later because I only run games with mature people who like to have fun together and don't bully each other through their game characters because they need to feel powerful in their pretend lives since they are not powerful in their real lives. Now, I have had scenarios were the PCs played characters of varying alignments and in playing to the alignments, had inter-group power struggle dynamics, but again this was done maturely and when a good PC had to kill an evil PC or vice versa (being true to the storyline and alignment), no person was upset since they anticipated that the scenario might eventually come to that.
As far as PCs becoming so powerful that I had to constantly revamp scenarios to give them an honest challenge, it only happened during a Coalition Campaign. The PCs were NOT powerful as individuals, but they worked together so tactically and cohesively (like a professional military unit should; and these players were all U.S.A. armed forces veterans) that they were able to overcome Federation of Magic foes that were immensely more powerful than them (also, I had to play the FoM NPCs true to their selfish and glory-hounding nature for storyline purposes, so it really hurt their performance). So I honestly don't understand how this could be "game breaking?" Magical knowledge is wonderful and gives a player options, but just because they know every spell, it does not mean they can cast more than someone who knows very little or that they have more P.P.E. from which to cast said spells. I find that being able to cast more spells per melee or having a ridiculous amount of P.P.E. to be a greater cause of "game breaking" mechanics than just vast spell knowledge.
I hope this perspective of mine helps in easing fellow GMs' willingness to let PCs EARN (not be simply given; it is much more special when earned) additional spell knowledge in which to enjoy their characters with.
There's a thread on Yggdrasil over in the Rifts forums where similar issues came up, the 'it makes the PC too powerful!' and all that, while ignoring the limitations on the PC such as PPE and number of spells that can be cast.
Something to add is the simple fact that if a PC can find and fight his way to the tree and hold out against the possible threats that come along in the mean time he's already powerful enough that the Yggdrasil gift is a well-earned reward for such skilled gameplay if he survives the ritual. It's not like it's some giveaway where you can find the tree in the village square and stake yourself to it while someone hangs a flat screen in front of you so you don't get bored while you power up, it is or should be a major quest that required everything the PC could manage and more to reach and survive. By the time you've done that you've definitely earned it (provided you make the saving throws).
funny thing about that... Since the release of CB2 I have seen an even dozen characters with the powers granted from old yggs ceremony but no one other than the player of said character can confirm the "adventure" where the ceremony happened even though 7 of them claimed to have achieved said powers in the chats but they cannot recall the GMs handle...(convenient that)
my GM's handle is Memnoch(as in memnoch the devil) and blatantly refuses to use the forums because " in his opinion just a bunch of rules lawyers who shoot down every idea but their own" that and "the childlike arguments get old quick i mean you have a JOB and internet access act like a grown up for ****** sake" not really the friendliest of people but a really good GM.........until you killed Simon in that dumbass DBZ adventure ******!
