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Some are 'incantations' some are 'rituals' A ritual follows the rules for rituals (takes time etc)....if its a spell, that is NOT a ritual then it doesn't.....

I thought rituals always followed the rules for rituals. =/

Not sure what you were saying in the last part.

Also, I don't think the terms invocation or incantation necessarily mean "non-ritual", if that's what's being argued, since rituals can involve spoken parts. Two examples contradict this assumption:
*Nightbane144 Bonding (Ritual) "is a powerful ritual incantation"
*Nightbane146 Summon and Control Animals (Ritual) "A superior summoning pentacle, the invocation empowers..."
*Nightbane148 Enchant Weapon (Ritual) "This invocation is similar to the charm weapon spell."

Tor wrote:

Some are 'incantations' some are 'rituals' A ritual follows the rules for rituals (takes time etc)....if its a spell, that is NOT a ritual then it doesn't.....

I thought rituals always followed the rules for rituals. =/

Not sure what you were saying in the last part.

Also, I don't think the terms invocation or incantation necessarily mean "non-ritual", if that's what's being argued, since rituals can involve spoken parts. Two examples contradict this assumption:
*Nightbane144 Bonding (Ritual) "is a powerful ritual incantation"
*Nightbane146 Summon and Control Animals (Ritual) "A superior summoning pentacle, the invocation empowers..."
*Nightbane148 Enchant Weapon (Ritual) "This invocation is similar to the charm weapon spell."

He's saying that there are two basic kinds of spells:
Type 1 can be cast in a few actions during combat.
Type 2 requires elaborate rituals.

Palladium mixes and matches their terminology in a lot of ways regarding that first category.
The book say things like, "Spell magic requires spoken incantations and hand gestures that serve as a focus to cast magic. The basic saving throw against spell magic is 12."
They're not talking about rituals here- they're using "spell magic" to refer to that first category of spells, the kind that you can cast during combat.
But labeling that kind of spell as simply "spell magic" gets confusing, because rituals are also spells.
All he was trying to do above was to make things clearer, by using "incantations" to refer to that Type 1 kind of spell, instead of using "spell magic." Other games refer to that kind of spell as "incantations," so he thought that his meaning would be clear.
Then you got confused because you apparently thought that he was using "incantations" to refer to any and/or every kind of magic in which the caster incants.
And here we are.

When there is a '(Ritual)' in the title of a spell it means that the spell is only avalible as a ritual.

Yes, most spells can be learned as an invocation or a ritual. But there are a few which Are Only Rituals.

pg. 144: Ritual incantation= the mage has to talk as a part of the ritual. Read the words as they are written, not how you want then to mean.

pg. 146: Summoning pentacal.....The mage has to "draw" the Pentactal on the groud/floor to stand in as per the basic rules of summoning magic. Thus the spell is only avalible as a ritual. Yes, they skipped over the details cause they believed everyone understood the legasy knowledge of previuse PB books. Yes, it was stupid to do so cause as a whole people are stupid even if indeviduals can be smart.

Pg 148: Ritual in title means it is only avalible as a ritual, invocation in the description means ether of two thing someone was not paying attention to what they were writing and used the wrong words or that the spell was changed to be a ritual after it had been written but was only in the title and editing the text was forgotten about. Ether way text as written ends up meaning the mage has invocations to say during the Ritual.

If you take the cited spells as a whole they do not support someone's assertaion that they are what they are not.

About the only clear thing is what a ritual is... sorta. "Non-ritual" is also pretty clear... though it would be nice to have a proper antonym to describe them. Like what all low level spells usually are by default, odd low-level Nightbane rituals and proficiencies aside.

All common magic spells can be cast as invocations or rituals, depending on which way the mage learned that spell.
(yes, this does mean noting which ones the mage only knows as rituals.)

It is the ones with ritual in their title of the spell text make it clear they are ritual that can only be cast as rituals.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:All common magic spells can be cast as invocations or rituals, depending on which way the mage learned that spell.

Pretty sure most main books' "Pursuit of Magic" sections say 'any spell incantation from level seven and higher can be cast as a spell or ritual", implying that spells 1-6 can't be cast as rituals unless explicitly indicated (only rituals under 7 I've seen were in Nightbane).

The ritual proficiency (or disadvantage) in TTGD is presumably the only exception to this, since the first allows any spell to be cast as a ritual, and the second ONLY allows you to cast rituals.