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Hotrod wrote:The full list of Timiro's settlements, sorted population size:

Spoiler:

Credia 170000
Old Timiro 92000
Tomoro 68000
Aracho 63000
Tanis 54000
Acoroc 31000
Rankin 22500
Media 18000
Nibis 18000
Smia 17400
Syanda 13000
Aria 11370
Calra 9300
Basst 9000
Partha 4690
Kwia 3600
barbera 3580
Nisi 3250
Nira 3200
Sims 2200
Erat 2100
Hanna 2000
Yria 1680
Beeg 1200
Gedro 1100
Marmana 1078
Parp 700
Sino 640
baca 600
Tax 560
Tanith 450
Bith 443
Arian 284

With 33 settlements, I think I'll break them up into 3 population categories: 0-1,999, 2,000-11,999, and 12,000+.

When I see what you're doing to the Timiro map, I can only shake my head when I think of the
effort Miles and I were trying to do. Your maps just keep on getting better.

Thanks, though I wouldn't disparage your efforts. Miles' map has been an invaluable resource to me. In fact, he broke down the populations almost exactly the same way I plan to (I didn't even realize this until I'd plugged in and sorted the towns by their populations). He did a great job of compiling a lot of book info into the map and making it a lot more usable. Furthermore, your article on Timiro has been quite useful as well.

The natural geography is done! Click here to see a bare image of Timiro. I've added in a number of features to get to this point:
+The map now has water effects. I opted for the same effects I used in my Land of the Damned map. It doesn't show any bathymetry, but it works, and I'm satisfied with the look.
+The grasslands are now fully defined. I smoothed out the terrain in those spots, giving them a more eroded look. I also created a new color gradient and airbrushed it in to make it look like more of a yellowish prairie.
+I added in woods. Their locations, shapes, and size are the best canon fit I could make.

I also made a little progress with icons and political geography. Click here to see the latest draft. It's not vastly different from the last version; aside from the natural geography, I've added:
+Ogre tribal icons: after trying some of the suggestions here and failing to make them look thematic enough, I opted for a fist breaking chains, symbolizing the ogres' rebelliousness and determination to free the slaves of Timiro. Red seems an apt color choice for their tribal icons.
+I made a pyramid icon for the Pyramid of Osiris. (edit: I accidentally have two versions of it in this version; I'll fix that for the next version)
+Revised city icons: After sorting the cities into three population size groups, I introduced a city icon to bridge the gap between villages and cities and revised the city icon placement accordingly. I also placed a couple of city icons in the Land of South Winds.
+I made a purple border for Timiro. The country's borders don't seem well-defined, so I've made some educated guesses here and there.
+I made an orange border for the Land of South Winds. I added nothing for the Old Kingdom, as it's not an actual political organization, nor did I include the Eastern Territory, since there isn't enough of it on the map to label.

As always, please point out any errors you see.

Next step is labels!

Having done a few maps based on Palladium RPGs now, I'm struck by how different this project is. Most of the time, these maps have wide areas that aren't particularly well-defined, towns/cities that aren't described or located, and regions that lack detail. I often have to dig very deep into the source material to find things to fill empty areas of map.

Holy cow, that is not the case in Timiro! Between the "describe everything" approach taken in Old Ones and Glen Evan's detailed description of its natural geography in the Rifter 63 official material, this is the most detailed all-fiction RPG region I've mapped. There are 34 settlements (just found another one in the Place of Magic, Windthorp!), almost that many forts/castles, four separate mountain/hill ranges, five passes, three named rivers (and others that I will probably name after the settlements that are on them), two marshes, three bodies of water (one of which needs to be named, the bay between Timiro and the Land of South Winds), and another 6 assorted lowland geographic regions. Oh, and I still need to draw in roads and ley lines. Yikes. Although I intend to create a "master map" that includes as much of everything I can squeeze in, I may also create a "natural geography" and/or a "political geography" version for details that I can't fit into the master map.

No new versions today; I'm just throwing labels on everything right now. I've got 82 and counting, and it doesn't look pretty. I'll work on fitting and bending these labels over the next few days.

After plinking away at this off and on for a few days, I have a first draft of the labeled map! Click here to see it.

If you're familiar with Timiro, and you have the time, please take a careful look over this version and let me know if I'm missing or goofing something up. Finding my own mistakes can be tricky, especially in a map with this many elements, and some of the best-educated authorities on the Timiro Kingdom are regulars on this board.

While I was working the labels, I discovered a few corrections I need to make:
1. I've labeled two marshes in the southeast detailed in Glen Evans' Timiro article, but they don't look like marshes. I'll try a couple of terrain tricks to put some in.
2. The South Sea label should be bigger and curved (that's my convention for natural geography and regional labels). Oops.
3. There's a label for Lake Magnys, but the lake itself isn't there. The lake is mentioned in Glen's map, but it's not on any official Timiro map. I'll draw it in.
4. Some of the labels don't stand out well against their backgrounds (Windthorp is the worst one, by the Place of Magic). I'll optimize that later after I do a little label size/alignment tweaking. I'll probably wind up changing some labels from black to white and vice-versa.
5. The map title is pretty dull. It's a placeholder.
6. The Tombs of Gersidi aren't labeled. It's a bit too crowded. Maybe I should ditch the current label for the valley and label the tombs, or just ditch the "Valley" part of the label and leave "Gersidi" by itself? I'll think on that.

Although this version of the map should be usable for many games, several steps remain:
1. A proper title, compass rose, scale, and map legend.
2. The roads and trails of the Timiro Kingdom.
3. Ley Lines and nexuses.
4. A frame with some thematic introductory inscription.

This should go in a rifter

kiralon wrote:This should go in a rifter

Thank you, that's very kind. While I love to see my stuff in print, this particular map is designed to be a color map. I'd have to cut some content, adjust the pixel size, and do a lot of re-balancing to make it work as a greyscale. A back cover might work well, but that's prime advertising space for Palladium.

I made the fixes I mentioned earlier. The two marshes are now defined with a large collection of small rivers and a darker, more saturated green color. The Brown Plains are now colored like plains. Lake Magnys is now on the map. Finally, I threw in the compass rose and scale from my Bizantium map (the scale is adjusted to be correct for this map), and voila!

Version 1.0 of the map is complete! Click here to take a look!

This doesn't mean I'm done with the map; I still plan to add in ley lines, nexuses, roads, trails, a legend, and a frame. I'll also keep tweaking the features already in the map. These are features that aren't essential for navigating a group around Timiro. However, the map is complete in the sense that I think it has all the information necessary to navigate the canon setting of Timiro. Anyway, enjoy!

Great job man. You solve the problem with location of Ibera Pass and High Pass. We now have a
definitive location for both.

Thanks! That's the advantage of building my own terrain from the ground up. I've still got a ways to go to catch all the details you and Miles put into your Rifter map, though.

I hope everyone had a great Christmas. I spent most of my free time doing some amateur carpentry, making two large tables for my kids to use when playing Legos, doing arts/crafts, and all those other things I'd rather not have cluttering up our dining room table. Between measuring, sawing, staining, gluing, sanding, and varnishing, this map project got put on the back burner.

That isn't to say that it was forgotten, however. I kept plugging in tweaks, and now Version 1.1 is complete, with several significant corrections and additions to Version 1.0. Click here to see Version 1.1.

Fixes:
1. Fixed several misspellings of cities (apologies for "Caira," "Niwa," and "Siwa" in Version 1.0).
2. Sino and Fort Ibi are now labeled.
3. Fort Ibera is now placed and marked correctly (I had it marked in Fort Ibi's place)
5. Nira is slightly west of where it was (this allows it to sit atop a major crossroads.
6. Fort Aberla is slightly south of where it was (adjusted to better fit the roads)
7. The towns, cities, and forts in the part of the Land of South Winds were not consistent with canon locations. Now they are. I placed the town on the northern coast along the same ley line as the city of Rankin. This would allow for magical transportation across the 50-mile-wide bay.
8. I re-did the labels and included some shadowing effects for the white ones.

New Features:
1. A marble frame with a thematic inscription (see below for the inscription text).
2. Roads and trails. I tried a new technique for these, and I'm fairly pleased with the results.
3. Ley lines and nexus points are now on the map.

For those who don't care to rotate their screens around, this is the inscription on the frame:

Issues/Items Remaining:
1. Some of the labels are running into the neat lines of the frame (the black and white borders)
2. I'd like to use the aforementioned neat lines as a recognizable part of the scale.
3. A title cartouche, possibly with some artistic/thematic touches.
4. A fancier compass rose
5. A legend, if I can fit it in.
6. A few of the road/trail junctions are slightly offset.

I did have a good Christmas. Interesting you mention legos, I got my kids some and was thinking about trying to make them a table soon... (because they like playing on the floor right now)

I do think you're PFRPG maps are the best that have been done. I hope you are the go to guy whenever a new PFRPG book is done. Please keep up the great work.

I just put the last coat of polyurethane on the tabletops this morning. They're looking good. Instead of legs, my wife got some Ikea storage shelves (each is 2x2 square of slots for large bins) which I reinforced with plywood to handle the weight of the table. Thus the kids can keep loose legos in sorted bins. Sorting them is another family project in and of itself.

Thanks for the kind words! I certainly hope to see more PFRPG books come down the pipeline. I have a couple of other projects going that I hope to submit for manuscripts that may someday see the light of day. Until then, I think it may be time for me to refocus on RIFTS soon; I've only done a couple of maps for the company's flagship line.

For my second grab bag I got the Bizantium map and the Land of the Damn map. They are both
awesome man. Can't wait for the Timiro Map and of course....

... yes, that other thing. Speaking of which, I'm still waiting on your thoughts on the last draft I sent you (*cracks whip*).

I'm especially glad your prints turned out well; your original print of the map I made for Open House was what convinced me to give printing my maps another try, and I'm grateful for that, because the latest bunch I sent to Palladium came out much better.

Freakin awesome sir. I thank thee

So glad that a conversation we had has led to so much success! Your maps keep improving!

I really wish Palladium would just commission you for a full map book of the palladium world. I'd buy it for sure.
Aren't the Tombs of Gersidi somewhere in Timiro?

Whiskeyjack wrote:I really wish Palladium would just commission you for a full map book of the palladium world. I'd buy it for sure.
Aren't the Tombs of Gersidi somewhere in Timiro?

You and me both! And yes, they are. Look in the northern mountain range, you'll see a "Gersidi Valley" with a ruins icon in it. I also have another thread somewhere on this board in which I'm supposed to be re-doing the underground maps of Gersidi (I need to get back on that, too).

Found it! The lettering is a bit faded in that area. I looked right over it.

Whiskeyjack wrote:Found it! The lettering is a bit faded in that area. I looked right over it.

Yeah, it's not a big spot, and neither the pass nor the place itself are widely spoken of in the canon outside of the Gersidi adventure, so I didn't want it to be too obvious.

The small pass/deer trail up to the valley is supposed to be secretish from memory.

You're right on with Glen Evan's official source material article that came in the RIFTER (I think it was #63). High Pass is largely unknown, and is only just being reopened by the lord of Castle Instax.

A minor, first-world-type disaster struck last week. While fixing a hinge problem on my laptop that prevented my screen from turning on, the folks at ASUS decided (despite me telling them not to) to re-load the operating system, which wiped my hard drive and destroyed all the source files for this map and my other ongoing projects. As a result, I won't be able to tweak any of the existing content, so I hope there aren't many errors left. I still may add in some other features later.

try recuva
https://www.piriform.com/recuva
it might be able to get something back.

Thanks for the suggestion. I tried it, but no luck. I have an SSD, which might not retain files the way the old magnetic drives do. Looks like the ASUS guys were quite thorough.

It's not a total loss. Thanks to my tendency to post in-progress shots, a few inadvertent saves on my Onedrive, and email files, I can salvage some of what I lost. The big problem is that the source files for maps tend to be enormous, and I hadn't backed them up in about 6 months.

Update: In spite of losing all my source files, I've used some of the uploaded in-progress images and a lot of trickery to produce Version 1.2!

Changes from the previous version:
+The lakes are closer to the sea color now. They don't stand out as much, but this seems more consistent.
+I've changed the scale to coincide with the neat lines (the black and white alternating border that wraps around the map). This will allow for easier distance measurements around the map.
+I've added a legend.
+I created a gryphon icon and put it into the compass rose. The Gryphon is the official symbol of the Timiro Kingdom according to High Seas, 2nd Ed, p183.

Hello, Hotrod. I'm new to the forum, but I've been playing and running Palladium Campaigns since 2001, and the Palladium world, with its history, culture, and geography is a setting that is very dear to my heart. Now that you have some context of who I am, let me jump right in to my first ever comment here: first, your map is absolutely beautiful! The scale and the composition are amazingly accurate. I know how hard this particular task is, because I once drew sections of the Palladium world by hand on graph paper and I had to comb through all the other world books for crumbs of detail regarding distance and composition that weren't explained in the books that covered a particular area. Well Done.

the Dark Diabolist wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2024 4:05 am Hello, Hotrod. I'm new to the forum, but I've been playing and running Palladium Campaigns since 2001, and the Palladium world, with its history, culture, and geography is a setting that is very dear to my heart. Now that you have some context of who I am, let me jump right in to my first ever comment here: first, your map is absolutely beautiful! The scale and the composition are amazingly accurate. I know how hard this particular task is, because I once drew sections of the Palladium world by hand on graph paper and I had to comb through all the other world books for crumbs of detail regarding distance and composition that weren't explained in the books that covered a particular area. Well Done.

Welcome to the forums, and thank you very much! I've seen some great hand-drawn maps in Palladium, and while I obviously have my own style of computer-based drawing when it comes to these, I really appreciate that kind of look. Please do consider sharing your own creations if you still have them.