Best OCCs for new players

[Hotrod]

Did someone already say that if you're not doing any cybernetics or magic, you might as well do Paratrooper?

They're stronger than Special Forces, and I think they're stronger than Merc Soldiers half the time.

I generally dislike any class that is "like XXX class, but better." We see a lot of those in Rifts, and the paratrooper is an egregious example. Paratroopers combine a unique immunity to horror factor, extra ranged attacks/accuracy, and Hand-to-Hand: Commando (normally a C.S. exclusive) in a single class defined as a first-wave shock trooper built around an archaic way to get into battle. Why would parachute training make a mercenary so awesome? The only advantage to using parachutes in Rifts is the fact that they're silent and cheap; otherwise, they're completely outclassed by jet packs in terms of control, mobility, flexibility, and re-usability, and jet packs aren't all that pricey. These are real-life concerns, too, which is why infantry assault by air these days is mostly done by helicopter, not by parachute.

Lore-wise, paratroopers don't make much sense to me as a mercenary class, either. The parachuting skill is pretty rare in Rifts, and paratroopers require aircraft to drop them on targets, and most of the aircraft in Rifts seem to be the kind that don't need a runway, which makes me wonder why they'd want to parachute in infantry in the first place. Cheap cannon fodder, maybe? That's plausible, but then why put so much elite training into them? Also, how would such a class become a standardized class when mercenaries are, as a rule, not centrally managed or regulated by any single authority? The class's lore seems like an anachronism, an application of WW2 units and tactics to a Rifts battlefield.

tl;dr I wouldn't recommend that class to any Rifts player, to include an experienced one; at least not without significant adjustments. I would very much like to see jet-pack infantry developed in Rifts, but that's a separate topic.

[Killer Cyborg]

Did someone already say that if you're not doing any cybernetics or magic, you might as well do Paratrooper?

They're stronger than Special Forces, and I think they're stronger than Merc Soldiers half the time.

I generally dislike any class that is "like XXX class, but better."

Word.

And Paratroopers?
The whole "we jump out of airplanes, so we're impervious to Cthulu's HF" is entirely composed of 100% stupid.
With maybe a bit extra stupid on top.
And a layer of dumb sauce.

[Warshield73]

Did someone already say that if you're not doing any cybernetics or magic, you might as well do Paratrooper?

They're stronger than Special Forces, and I think they're stronger than Merc Soldiers half the time.

I generally dislike any class that is "like XXX class, but better."

Word.

And Paratroopers?
The whole "we jump out of airplanes, so we're impervious to Cthulu's HF" is entirely composed of 100% stupid.
With maybe a bit extra stupid on top.
And a layer of dumb sauce.

The Paratrooper is described as more of a Navy SEAL analog not a straight up WWII paratrooper. The HF thing is broken but what I do is they are immune to war based HF not supernatural once you do that they are OK, just a little overpowered like most of the CS Special Forces classes.

The Merc Adventures book is a cool book but truthfully they are all a little over powered.

[Fenris2020]

Did someone already say that if you're not doing any cybernetics or magic, you might as well do Paratrooper?

They're stronger than Special Forces, and I think they're stronger than Merc Soldiers half the time.

I generally dislike any class that is "like XXX class, but better." We see a lot of those in Rifts, and the paratrooper is an egregious example. Paratroopers combine a unique immunity to horror factor, extra ranged attacks/accuracy, and Hand-to-Hand: Commando (normally a C.S. exclusive) in a single class defined as a first-wave shock trooper built around an archaic way to get into battle. Why would parachute training make a mercenary so awesome? The only advantage to using parachutes in Rifts is the fact that they're silent and cheap; otherwise, they're completely outclassed by jet packs in terms of control, mobility, flexibility, and re-usability, and jet packs aren't all that pricey. These are real-life concerns, too, which is why infantry assault by air these days is mostly done by helicopter, not by parachute.

Lore-wise, paratroopers don't make much sense to me as a mercenary class, either. The parachuting skill is pretty rare in Rifts, and paratroopers require aircraft to drop them on targets, and most of the aircraft in Rifts seem to be the kind that don't need a runway, which makes me wonder why they'd want to parachute in infantry in the first place. Cheap cannon fodder, maybe? That's plausible, but then why put so much elite training into them? Also, how would such a class become a standardized class when mercenaries are, as a rule, not centrally managed or regulated by any single authority? The class's lore seems like an anachronism, an application of WW2 units and tactics to a Rifts battlefield.

tl;dr I wouldn't recommend that class to any Rifts player, to include an experienced one; at least not without significant adjustments. I would very much like to see jet-pack infantry developed in Rifts, but that's a separate topic.

Hmmm, yes and no.
I can definitely see paratroopers as useful in certain battlefield conditions on Rifts Earth; same with jump-pack infantry, and if I'd designed the class, jump pack operation would be an OCC skill. In fact, I can see a jump-pack trooper using the BA version of one of our flying suits or using a sort of reserve 'chute, in case the pack malfunctions or gets too damaged to work while airborne.
As for the Horror Factor thing... I got out of the army a year ago next week, 10th Mountain. I've jumped out of a LOT of airplanes, and I've been in more than one fire-fight. Being inured to that wouldn't translate to ignoring the terror of fighting the Horseman Death or something along those lines. If faced with a dragon, I'd be at least somewhat in awe, even if they existed on this world.
The jump-pack infantry idea is an awesome one, and if I was to sit down and design a merc outfit, I'd probably have a few squads of that type of infantry.

[Hotrod]

Did someone already say that if you're not doing any cybernetics or magic, you might as well do Paratrooper?

They're stronger than Special Forces, and I think they're stronger than Merc Soldiers half the time.

I generally dislike any class that is "like XXX class, but better."

Word.

And Paratroopers?
The whole "we jump out of airplanes, so we're impervious to Cthulu's HF" is entirely composed of 100% stupid.
With maybe a bit extra stupid on top.
And a layer of dumb sauce.

The Paratrooper is described as more of a Navy SEAL analog not a straight up WWII paratrooper. The HF thing is broken but what I do is they are immune to war based HF not supernatural once you do that they are OK, just a little overpowered like most of the CS Special Forces classes.

The Merc Adventures book is a cool book but truthfully they are all a little over powered.

Rifts: Mercenaries already created a class for this: Special Forces.

In any case, Navy SEALs aren't immune to fear or shock on the battlefield. The only people who cannot feel fear or shock from traumatic incidents tend to be people who have structural brain damage. I wouldn't consider such a condition desirable for a soldier or anyone else. A while back, I actually wrote up an R.C.C. that was totally incapable of feeling fear or revulsion. You can see it here; it's called "the Attendian." It's a species engineered to be a servant to the wealthy and powerful, and it's pretty sucky at any kind of violence.

Merc Adventures introduces some interesting ideas, and I think most of those ideas speak to a desire to see some progression outside of the leveling scheme. I'd like to see a pathway for something like a C.S. Grunt/technical officer/military specialist to advance into stuff like Special Forces/Commando specialties.

[Hotrod]

Did someone already say that if you're not doing any cybernetics or magic, you might as well do Paratrooper?

They're stronger than Special Forces, and I think they're stronger than Merc Soldiers half the time.

I generally dislike any class that is "like XXX class, but better." We see a lot of those in Rifts, and the paratrooper is an egregious example. Paratroopers combine a unique immunity to horror factor, extra ranged attacks/accuracy, and Hand-to-Hand: Commando (normally a C.S. exclusive) in a single class defined as a first-wave shock trooper built around an archaic way to get into battle. Why would parachute training make a mercenary so awesome? The only advantage to using parachutes in Rifts is the fact that they're silent and cheap; otherwise, they're completely outclassed by jet packs in terms of control, mobility, flexibility, and re-usability, and jet packs aren't all that pricey. These are real-life concerns, too, which is why infantry assault by air these days is mostly done by helicopter, not by parachute.

Lore-wise, paratroopers don't make much sense to me as a mercenary class, either. The parachuting skill is pretty rare in Rifts, and paratroopers require aircraft to drop them on targets, and most of the aircraft in Rifts seem to be the kind that don't need a runway, which makes me wonder why they'd want to parachute in infantry in the first place. Cheap cannon fodder, maybe? That's plausible, but then why put so much elite training into them? Also, how would such a class become a standardized class when mercenaries are, as a rule, not centrally managed or regulated by any single authority? The class's lore seems like an anachronism, an application of WW2 units and tactics to a Rifts battlefield.

tl;dr I wouldn't recommend that class to any Rifts player, to include an experienced one; at least not without significant adjustments. I would very much like to see jet-pack infantry developed in Rifts, but that's a separate topic.

Hmmm, yes and no.
I can definitely see paratroopers as useful in certain battlefield conditions on Rifts Earth; same with jump-pack infantry, and if I'd designed the class, jump pack operation would be an OCC skill. In fact, I can see a jump-pack trooper using the BA version of one of our flying suits or using a sort of reserve 'chute, in case the pack malfunctions or gets too damaged to work while airborne.
As for the Horror Factor thing... I got out of the army a year ago next week, 10th Mountain. I've jumped out of a LOT of airplanes, and I've been in more than one fire-fight. Being inured to that wouldn't translate to ignoring the terror of fighting the Horseman Death or something along those lines. If faced with a dragon, I'd be at least somewhat in awe, even if they existed on this world.
The jump-pack infantry idea is an awesome one, and if I was to sit down and design a merc outfit, I'd probably have a few squads of that type of infantry.

Climb to Glory! I'm not a 10th Mountain soldier myself, but I've spent plenty of time up there.

As for having a distinct paratrooper O.C.C., I just don't see the purpose to it. Giving Merc Soldier the Parachutist skill makes sense, and I can see some purpose to creating a Drop Trooper O.C.C. that focuses on light and rapid deployment via a variety of tools, including parachutes. I wouldn't write it up like the published Parachutist O.C.C. The hand-to-hand skill choice is inappropriate (should be Expert), the marksmanship skills should be little different from that of a typical soldier/mercenary, and there should be no horror factor immunity.

[kaid]

Did someone already say that if you're not doing any cybernetics or magic, you might as well do Paratrooper?

They're stronger than Special Forces, and I think they're stronger than Merc Soldiers half the time.

I generally dislike any class that is "like XXX class, but better."

Word.

And Paratroopers?
The whole "we jump out of airplanes, so we're impervious to Cthulu's HF" is entirely composed of 100% stupid.
With maybe a bit extra stupid on top.
And a layer of dumb sauce.

Yes honestly better to make some kind of more generic soldier and maybe give them access to some of the advanced training stuff from heros of humanity if you want to make a special forces soldier non CS person. Still paratroopers are pretty squishy and fairly basic for starter players so not a bad pick. Basically it allows them to ignore/not have to figure out horror factor stuff which may not be a bad thing for newbies.

[kaid]

It's still fantasy role-play. If everyone wants to play humans, sure; if not, I tend not to make arbitrary limitations.
If I wanted to play a humans-only game I'd run Cyberpunk: 2020 or something.

So, like, you refuse to ever participate in a humans-only adventure unless you're playing Cyberpunk 2020....?
Seems weird to me.

So, like, ya, in the totally vapid way we're talking now, I like, guess. Fur shur.

Man, you get a LOT out of one use of the word "like."
Didn't mean to hurt your feelings.

If there's an option to play something I don't look at in the mirror every day, sure, I take that option.

Most everybody does.
The weird part is refusing to play any character that shares the same species with you, in a group of the same, unless you're playing Cyberpunk 2020.

What seems weird to me is people who always play humans regardless of other options, and what seems freakish to me is forcing someone else to.

Cool.
But since nobody here so far is like that, why are you changing the subject?

Well, other than starting out everyone as CS Grunts, I suppose...

If you want to start out as all CS grunts bust bust out the heroes of humanity stuff. let your players have access to an advanced training option and maybe a second if they level up enough basically as they gain ranks. Starts simple but you can add on power/fun stuff/utility that way.

[Orin J.]

i feel like the discussion got well away from the original goal of "what are good classes for learning the basics of the game" but i guess OP must have started the game by now anyways.

[Zer0 Kay]

Did someone already say that if you're not doing any cybernetics or magic, you might as well do Paratrooper?

They're stronger than Special Forces, and I think they're stronger than Merc Soldiers half the time.

Dont need stronger if your just introducing them as a baseline. Should start with grunt that way they're not over the top when you "add on a second class" ALSO if the initial is much lower than what they'll be changed into it makes a bigger impression while if what theyre being changed to is a little lower like a mage then the hp loss isnt too aggravating.

[Zer0 Kay]

Did someone already say that if you're not doing any cybernetics or magic, you might as well do Paratrooper?

They're stronger than Special Forces, and I think they're stronger than Merc Soldiers half the time.

I generally dislike any class that is "like XXX class, but better."

Word.

And Paratroopers?
The whole "we jump out of airplanes, so we're impervious to Cthulu's HF" is entirely composed of 100% stupid.
With maybe a bit extra stupid on top.
And a layer of dumb sauce.

Dang.... no side of obtuse or is that dessert?

[Curbludgeon]

To a certain way of thinking the Paratrooper O.C.C. is good for new players. It doesn't have to deal with rules for Horror Factor or penalties for shooting while on the move, the latter of which, while a little less unique, being ultimately more ridiculous in game. That the class name comes from a couple of what would be incidental skills to the character is just editing.

Of course by the same token one type of starter character could be a Vagabond with the minor super powers Immune to Psionics and Immune to (Some) Super Abilities and the major powers Immune to Magic and Invulnerability, so they might stumble about in God Mode learning the rules as if it were an exception-based game.

[Borast]

And a layer of dumb sauce.

So they're mute?

[Borast]

So...using that logic, if I have a Crazy with a significant phobia, and I roll-play him being "cured" of that affliction...he's now immune to Horror Factor?

The only advantage a Paratrooper should have is an immunity to the terror of jumping out of an aircraft, and have a bonus vs. HF about making a "hot" jump.

Sorry, I know of several adrenaline junkies who 'jump for fun, that actually have phobias, and one of them is a near crippling phobia.



Any way...to the asked question: the best OCC for new players is one of the basic core ones with no "extras" to deal with, like spells, psi, etc.