Would you allow a Mystic Super Spy in your game?

[barna10]

My favorite turn-on-his-head concept was a Siberian Tiger Battle Cat High Mage that played medic during battle, and scientist all other times.

[MyDumpStatIsMA]

I have always like balanced characters who can give out good damage but still defend themselves well when needed. I also like taking classes and turning them on their head a little and use them to build something a little out of the ordinary (hence the GB Pilot Medic). My ex-wife played a GrackleTooth Operator who was an awesome character (she was always critiquing equipment and vehicles and loved taking things apart to see how they worked).

I like tech characters sometimes, too. Psi-Techs in particular. How well I can BS my way through pseudo technical jargon while roleplaying, though... that's the real challenge. When in doubt, I start using Star Trek words like 'diburnium.'

As for damage/defense balance, the thing I like about Rifts is that tech is the great equalizer. You can get away with making a master of social interaction (said Psynetic Crazy had Empathy, Telepathy, Empathic Transmission, and Hypnotic Suggestion) who isn't useless in a fight as long as they have a decent HtH and a decent energy rifle.

One of the reasons magic gets a bad wrap for damage dealing, I suspect, is that people try to use magic that deals damage directly. And that's terribly inefficient PPE usage.

Take Power Bolt, for example. 20 PPE for 5D6+2 MD per level. Costs 2 melee actions to cast. 1600 foot range.

Or, use an MR-10 MageFire Bolt Rifle, which does 5D6+3 MD per single shot, with the same range, for only 1 melee action per shot, with a maximum of 18 shots before 20 PPE must be spent to recharge it.

Kind of a non-choice.

A far better use of PPE is utility spells that help your party. Let conventional (well, by Rifts standards) weapons do the damage.

[hup7]

If all you want is a few GM's saying whether they would allow it - then you can add my yes to that group. I would most certainly allow a Mystic Super Spy.

As someone else mentioned; as a GM to a player - I might suggest other options that might be better at what you are aiming for as a concept but certainly you can pick and choose what you want to play. Talk to YOUR GM because they might have differing opinions and those of randoms on the internet really don't count for much.

I built an NPC: ex-coalition grunt turned bow sniper biowizard. She cast off technology in favour of magic and chose mostly healing or incapacitating spells. Nothing wrong with a magic sniper in my humble opinion - go for it and have fun. The most important part of any build is how much fun you have playing it.

[MyDumpStatIsMA]

If all you want is a few GM's saying whether they would allow it - then you can add my yes to that group. I would most certainly allow a Mystic Super Spy.

I built an NPC: ex-coalition grunt turned bow sniper biowizard. She cast off technology in favour of magic and chose mostly healing or incapacitating spells. Nothing wrong with a magic sniper in my humble opinion - go for it and have fun. The most important part of any build is how much fun you have playing it.

Thanks for your input.

And yeah, biowizard sniper doesn't sound bad. I'll have to check out my Book of Magic, since I haven't read that section closely.

[Curbludgeon]

Does the usage of the word Biowizard above refer to parasites and symbiotes and such from the Splugorth, or something else? A sniper with access to some biomancy (like a Lemurian, or Jungle Elf Temporal Warrior, or something taking advantage of Ecowizardry and fetishes, for example) could be fun. There was a variant on the Wormwood Symbiotic Warrior whom, particularly if they had access to TW items using some of the highlights of Combat Magic (in Mercenary Adventures), would be a hoot without delving too much into spellcasting.

There was only one time I seriously said NO to a player's character concept and the was when a player wanted to make a Promethean with all of the abilities of the Phase Adept and a Time Master and I was like, um.....NO!. lol

If the PPE bonus listed in the Time Master description applies to a Temporal Wizard, I'd take that over a PA/TM combo anyday. They can still get 4 Phase powers, which (at a quick glance for solid choices) could be Anti-Phase, Multi-Phase, Phase Field, and Fast Draw.

[MyDumpStatIsMA]

A sniper with access to some biomancy (like a Lemurian, or Jungle Elf Temporal Warrior, or something taking advantage of Ecowizardry and fetishes, for example) could be fun.

I imagined something like this more than Splugorth-related, but I could certainly be wrong.

[hup7]

Sorry, Biomancer (South America) not Biowizard.

[MyDumpStatIsMA]

Sorry, Biomancer (South America) not Biowizard.

Yeah, I just figured the whole bow+healing bit sounded more like the former than the latter.

Is Biomancy good, in general? I don't have either South American book, but from what I can see in the Book of Magic, it seems like it'd be useful in a North American setting too. Do you combine your Biomancy spell knowledge with Blue Flame spells as well?

Would present an alternative to playing a Psi-Druid for me. Not that I dislike Psi-Druids, but more options are always nice.

Biomancer armor would also be a hell of a lot more useful than the wooden mage armor you get from Arzno.

[Curbludgeon]

Blue Flame is entirely separate from Biomancy. They are depicted as originally elemental spells like those of the Warlock, but which have also been converted into invocations. They are generally restricted to the shamans and magicians of the Larhold, whom occupy the southernmost parts of current Argentina and Chile.

Biomancy is found in South America 1, but is in a more restricted form than that depicted in the Lemuria World Book. All the spells from SA1 are found in the Book of Magic. There are some basic forms of armor and weapons in SA1, as well as the Jungle Elves, whom are a good way to add a few Biomancy spells to a character with a different focus. The Lemuria book adds a number of spells, but even then the selection isn't all that great save some high level effects. Both Biomancer practitioner of magic OCCs (Biomancer in SA1, Biomancer Gene-Mage in Lemuria) only gain spells intuitively, in the fashion of a Mystic. The Gene-Mages are able to create a large number of items including multiple forms of an equivalent to power armor, but PC Biomancers are expressly listed as not knowing the rituals involved in creating these items.

Biomancy is something better dipped into or taken advantage of via items. If a player is set on the idea, the Plant Shaman in Spirit West is perhaps the best way to do so, in that they have some access to Mystic Herbology and Plant spells from any source, including Biomancy, Nature Magic, and Elemental Earth.

[MyDumpStatIsMA]

Biomancy is something better dipped into or taken advantage of via items. If a player is set on the idea, the Plant Shaman in Spirit West is perhaps the best way to do so, in that they have some access to Mystic Herbology and Plant spells from any source, including Biomancy, Nature Magic, and Elemental Earth.

Thanks for the detailed explanation.

Do you think it'd be bending the rules too much to allow an average North American Mystic to intuitively pick up Biomancy?

By strict interpretation of the Biomancy flavor text (at least as it appears in the BoM), I would say 'no.' But by a looser standard, and in conjunction with a character backstory that would lend itself to it (like the character grew up in the woods and always had a strong affinity for nature), maybe?

[Nekira Sudacne]

Biomancy is something better dipped into or taken advantage of via items. If a player is set on the idea, the Plant Shaman in Spirit West is perhaps the best way to do so, in that they have some access to Mystic Herbology and Plant spells from any source, including Biomancy, Nature Magic, and Elemental Earth.

Thanks for the detailed explanation.

Do you think it'd be bending the rules too much to allow an average North American Mystic to intuitively pick up Biomancy?

By strict interpretation of the Biomancy flavor text (at least as it appears in the BoM), I would say 'no.' But by a looser standard, and in conjunction with a character backstory that would lend itself to it (like the character grew up in the woods and always had a strong affinity for nature), maybe?

That's a question you need to ask your GM.

You said it yourself. By RAW, the answer is an unambigious "no".

If your asking for others opinion's anyway? I'd still say No. Most mystic backstories include a strong affinity for nature. What would make your mystic super special?

Also, most SA Biomancer spells suck, and most Lemurian biomancer spells are race-restricted and also not plant-specific anyway. You're a Mystic. Your spell selections are already almost cripplingly limited. You do not need to waste your precious few spell slots on Spells so specific as to never be used. As your hypothetical GM, I'd say no. Your Super Spy Mystic is already sub-par, but if you saddle him with a bunch of Biomancer spells, he'll be active dead weight to the party.

To be clear: I'm all for not making the most powerful concept, and i've made a lot of sub-par choices in character creation for "It's what the Character would do"

But there's a limit, and SA Biomancers are bad. I'd just advice against it on that ground alone. I've GMed for a biomancer before, and it only worked because it was a Demigod that picked biomancer as their innate school, and were otherwise, well, a Demigod. Having biomancer magic was purely flavor for the divine parentage: it contributed nothing to the game but growing a garden in the party ATV, and was otherwise just a nonmagical melee combat build with SN PS.

[MyDumpStatIsMA]

Also, most SA Biomancer spells suck, and most Lemurian biomancer spells are race-restricted and also not plant-specific anyway. You're a Mystic. Your spell selections are already almost cripplingly limited. You do not need to waste your precious few spell slots on Spells so specific as to never be used. As your hypothetical GM, I'd say no. Your Super Spy Mystic is already sub-par, but if you saddle him with a bunch of Biomancer spells, he'll be active dead weight to the party.

Oh no, I wouldn't give any Biomancy to the Super Spy.

No, I was thinking something along the lines of a forest ambusher concept with Biomancy. Mostly predicated on Forest Camouflage, Tree Teleport, and Tree Warrior.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Also, most SA Biomancer spells suck, and most Lemurian biomancer spells are race-restricted and also not plant-specific anyway. You're a Mystic. Your spell selections are already almost cripplingly limited. You do not need to waste your precious few spell slots on Spells so specific as to never be used. As your hypothetical GM, I'd say no. Your Super Spy Mystic is already sub-par, but if you saddle him with a bunch of Biomancer spells, he'll be active dead weight to the party.

Oh no, I wouldn't give any Biomancy to the Super Spy.

No, I was thinking something along the lines of a forest ambusher concept with Biomancy. Mostly predicated on Forest Camouflage, Tree Teleport, and Tree Warrior.

Again, Mystics are already pretty nature focused. No they shouldn't have biomancy.

[barna10]

Mystics can learn any spell, even Biomancy spells

[MyDumpStatIsMA]

Mystics can learn any spell, even Biomancy spells

Especially given that Biomancy spells aren't wildly OP and prone to abuse. It's a very conditional spell school. You pretty much need to be in a heavily forested setting at all times.

Something more objectionable would be giving a Mystic Temporal or Cloud magic.

Biomancy could be considered, roughly, 'Earth magic' while Temporal is more cosmic and Cloud is alien, not originally from Earth. So for a Mystic in North America to develop something that's usually restricted to a South American Mystic-variant OCC, is not that much of a stretch.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Mystics can learn any spell, even Biomancy spells

Nothing says they can learn anything but standard invocations.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Mystics can learn any spell, even Biomancy spells

Especially given that Biomancy spells aren't wildly OP and prone to abuse. It's a very conditional spell school. You pretty much need to be in a heavily forested setting at all times.

Something more objectionable would be giving a Mystic Temporal or Cloud magic.

Biomancy could be considered, roughly, 'Earth magic' while Temporal is more cosmic and Cloud is alien, not originally from Earth. So for a Mystic in North America to develop something that's usually restricted to a South American Mystic-variant OCC, is not that much of a stretch.

Why not just take the Biomancer OCC, then? They can learn Common spells as well as biomancy spells.

My argument was never "it would be unbalanced/too powerful", but "Mechanically, the answer is no"

If you want to play a Biomancer, just play a Biomancer. It says right in the class that it's not restricted to South America and can be taken by almost any race in any region.

[MyDumpStatIsMA]

Why not just take the Biomancer OCC, then? They can learn Common spells as well as biomancy spells.

Honestly? I don't own either South American book. The setting doesn't interest me.

For the record, Europe doesn't interest me either, but I still own a few Euro books for the tech. I never bought Mystic Russia, because I already have the spells from BoM. Likewise, never bought Spirit West, even though I own New West.

I bought BoM as a lazy shortcut for not owning all the magic books. Seemed like a cost effective idea at the time.

[hup7]

Ah the problem inherent in Rifts ... too many choices

South America is a great setting and since it is close to North America - I consider it more useful than any of the European books, well if you are playing North America.

Biomancer is IMHO a great OCC, but poorly written... one of their abilities listed:
"6. Create Bio-Weapons: The biomancer can create weapons, armor and equipment by magically altering living matter! The process is somewhat similar to techno-wizardry and bio-wizardry, but it affects living animals and plants without hurting them. See the description under biomancy magic for the details on bio-weaponry and equipment."

I am sure there is written somewhere else that the creation of is limited to NPCs but I cannot find the reference right now.

"The prices given below are for the markets of Maga Island or the Bahia Kingdom." - Note there are NO prices listed for any of the bio-weapons.

I think editing trimmed some information. Personally I allow a biomancer to create the Bio-weapons listed in the book, however each level they learn a new "group" or weapons / armour. I have not found this to be unbalancing given the RP of biomancers disliking technology.

[MyDumpStatIsMA]

Ah the problem inherent in Rifts ... too many choices

South America is a great setting and since it is close to North America - I consider it more useful than any of the European books, well if you are playing North America.

Biomancer is IMHO a great OCC, but poorly written...

I just got the SA:1 PDF out of curiosity.

Looks to me like Biomancer would be most useful as a melee fighter in the superior Chitin armor. Jungle Elf RCC gets some decent psionics, so you have Intuitive Combat, plus the combat bonuses from the armor, plus Martial Arts and Boxing. 150 MDC if you stack the Chitin spell on top of the armor.

I would use Forest Camouflage to ambush, do as much damage as possible before the armor gives out, then Tree Teleport away.

Personally, I would only play a Biomancer as a Defender or Patient One; they wouldn't use any tech.

Only thing wrong with Biomancer is that they're pretty worthless as a mage. No bonuses to spell strength, limited spell selection, etc.

A Jungle Elf combined with a Ley Line Walker would be considerably more effective in the long run; it would simply take longer to get decent Biomancer spells that way.

As for the question of whether a player character Biomancer can make his own armor, I would say 'yes' regardless of any contradictions stated elsewhere. It's listed as a power under the OCC heading, and that's all the justification I need.