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glitterboy2098 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 1:45 am sorry, brain fart, HG. had been talking with someone about warhammer 40k stuff prior to posting that.


and i would reiterate that arguing over whether making some of the less defined mecha from southern cross into power armor instead of large mecha is largely pointless when it comes to the question of the thread, which is what future sequel installments of the robotech franchise might include. for better or for worse, the southern cross's mecha in general are pretty much technologically a dead end in the setting. be they veritech, piloted mecha, or power armor. we probably won't see follow on for them, since in settign they've been out of production for over 15 years by the time that Shadow Chronicles starts, and they probably won't see resurrection. (especially as a number of the harmony gold creative team seem to actively dislike that portion of the show)

for better or worse, future installments are almost certainly going to be growing out of the technology base seen in New Generation and Shadow Chronicles. that is, the UEEF mecha and systems.

Ah. No worries.


Probably true. How out of production ASC mecha are depends on HG. Depending on which canon you go with the REF/UEEF did have ASC Mecha. If they remained in use, and I don't know why they wouldn't, I can see them being upgraded/replaced with versions that use more REF/UEEF stylings, like Return of the Master's Super Logan and Assault Battloid. I could see variants of the Alpha that can reach orbit on their own, like the Super Alpha/Delta Veritech.

In a way it would also make some sense that the REF/UEEF would use older mecha that didn't rely on Hydonite technology. That would give HG some new/old things to play with. It'd also be faster and easier than trying to create completely new mecha.

Sambot wrote:Since Louie says "power amplified body armor" I would look at all the body armors the ASC corps wear and try to determine which might be power amplified. They could even power amplify all the ASC body armor and it'd be better than forcing animated battloids into being power armor.
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But what qualifies as "power amplified body armor" w/n Robotech during that Era? How big can something be and still be considered worn (those Cosplay outfit are worn afterall, you also have people who walk around on stilts in costumes at parades)?

How are you determining that non-animated battloids cannot work as "worn" suits? Afterall we don't have "X-ray" views or examples of pilot entering/leaving the units. Based on your statements about the Kraken only working I have to wonder if you expect the operator to put these suits on piecemeal like CVR-3 instead of potentially being "step-in" like the Zentreadi FPA suit is shown or Bubblegum Crisis's Hardsuits/K-Suits are shown or even some spacesuits (Russians use a back hatch, something the US has looked at for future designs but not really adopted as of yet) and IINM diving suits.

glitterboy2098 wrote:or better or for worse, the southern cross's mecha in general are pretty much technologically a dead end in the setting. be they veritech, piloted mecha, or power armor. we probably won't see follow on for them, since in settign they've been out of production for over 15 years by the time that Shadow Chronicles starts, and they probably won't see resurrection.

I'm not sure I agree that the ASC mecha are a dead end in 2044 for several reasons:
1. Protoculture reserves are low (1 year supply remember is established in the OVA), so the various technologies and designs might see a revisit if the 2E RPG is "correct" in that they don't use PC (and even though TRM mecha are overall smaller, they get better fusion endurance than TMS mecha).
2. Some of the ASC mecha were taken into space with the UEEF in various media, so evolutions of those designs could exist. Scott even identifies TRM-era mecha (hovertanks and bioroids) in among the remains in NG#2, and we know recovered bioroids received an update so the hovertank (and other units) could potentially to.
3. Given HG's heavy use of "recycling" designs, and we know they likely won't be allowed to use Macross designs it would make sense to consider SDC: SC designs and not limit oneself to just GCM designs.
4. Flashbacks could be included to earlier eras could introduce us to new designs.
5. The 2E PB RPG's IMU producer(s) on Earth could become a source for new designs, which could show influence of ASC designs (we'll assume TMS is off limits due to out of universe legal reasons)
6. If the Cyclone is taken to be the Infantry "failure" as it really is for power armor, it might turn to the ASC style designs as a starting point

ShadowLogan wrote: ↑Sat Oct 07, 2023 11:23 am

Sambot wrote:Since Louie says "power amplified body armor" I would look at all the body armors the ASC corps wear and try to determine which might be power amplified. They could even power amplify all the ASC body armor and it'd be better than forcing animated battloids into being power armor.
Top

But what qualifies as "power amplified body armor" w/n Robotech during that Era? How big can something be and still be considered worn (those Cosplay outfit are worn afterall, you also have people who walk around on stilts in costumes at parades)?

If you're wearing at least part of it and the mecha requires you to move, beyond operating pedals and levers, for the suit to move, it's a powered amplified armor.

How are you determining that non-animated battloids cannot work as "worn" suits? Afterall we don't have "X-ray" views or examples of pilot entering/leaving the units. Based on your statements about the Kraken only working I have to wonder if you expect the operator to put these suits on piecemeal like CVR-3 instead of potentially being "step-in" like the Zentreadi FPA suit is shown or Bubblegum Crisis's Hardsuits/K-Suits are shown or even some spacesuits (Russians use a back hatch, something the US has looked at for future designs but not really adopted as of yet) and IINM diving suits.

Basilisk - The Human body can't fit into the limbs. There's no way for the legs to get through the hip joint, nor can the arms fit through the two joints that make up the shoulder.
Fenris - A Human's legs can't get through the knee joints and the arms have two separate joints.
Kraken - looks like something a Human can wear so could be power armor.
Manticore - Difficult to tell with the art in the RPG book but source material shows the same knee and shoulder joint problems above.
Triton - We see that one animated as a Battloid.
Unicorn - Same hip, knee, and shoulder issues as above.

If the "pilot' can't get their limbs into the mecha's limbs they have to be in the torso. The torsos are not big enough for a Humanoid pilot to act out the motions. They're using controls. That make them Battloids.

glitterboy2098 wrote:or better or for worse, the southern cross's mecha in general are pretty much technologically a dead end in the setting. be they veritech, piloted mecha, or power armor. we probably won't see follow on for them, since in settign they've been out of production for over 15 years by the time that Shadow Chronicles starts, and they probably won't see resurrection.

I'm not sure I agree that the ASC mecha are a dead end in 2044 for several reasons:
1. Protoculture reserves are low (1 year supply remember is established in the OVA), so the various technologies and designs might see a revisit if the 2E RPG is "correct" in that they don't use PC (and even though TRM mecha are overall smaller, they get better fusion endurance than TMS mecha).
2. Some of the ASC mecha were taken into space with the UEEF in various media, so evolutions of those designs could exist. Scott even identifies TRM-era mecha (hovertanks and bioroids) in among the remains in NG#2, and we know recovered bioroids received an update so the hovertank (and other units) could potentially to.
3. Given HG's heavy use of "recycling" designs, and we know they likely won't be allowed to use Macross designs it would make sense to consider SDC: SC designs and not limit oneself to just GCM designs.
4. Flashbacks could be included to earlier eras could introduce us to new designs.
5. The 2E PB RPG's IMU producer(s) on Earth could become a source for new designs, which could show influence of ASC designs (we'll assume TMS is off limits due to out of universe legal reasons)
6. If the Cyclone is taken to be the Infantry "failure" as it really is for power armor, it might turn to the ASC style designs as a starting point

1. I kind of remember the Regis taking most of the Protoculture with her when she left but I don't remember how much was left. I also thought Rem made more matrix's so there would be a supply of Protoculture but they wouldn't make the mistake of defoliating Optera again.
Good point on the endurance of RDF and ASC mecha. 1E also has ASC mecha using alternative power sources so they might turn to them instead of Prototculture.
2. Jonathan Wolf also used the VHT and Scott knew him so it is likely that the VHT received an upgrade.
3. GCM? I do think just using a few mecha from TNG would be limiting. There's still a lot of Mecha from TNG and the Sentinels that HG could use. With Macross Mecha, they're are the Expeditionary Marines Destroids. They're similar but different enough to avoid legalities. They could continue that.
4. That would be cool.
%. IMU producers? I would have thought the Invid would have destroyed all the mecha producers. Maybe someone saved plans or designers survived?
6. I'm still not convinced the Cyclone is an "infantry" power armor. It may not be ideal for stand up fights but it does have some good points. There should still be more variety in Powered Armor as well as small veritechs.

Sambot wrote:Basilisk - The Human body can't fit into the limbs. There's no way for the legs to get through the hip joint, nor can the arms fit through the two joints that make up the shoulder.
Fenris - A Human's legs can't get through the knee joints and the arms have two separate joints.
Kraken - looks like something a Human can wear so could be power armor.
Manticore - Difficult to tell with the art in the RPG book but source material shows the same knee and shoulder joint problems above.
Triton - We see that one animated as a Battloid.
Unicorn - Same hip, knee, and shoulder issues as above.

Looking at some of the (ASC) specialist branches body armor I don't see an issue with the hips or shoulders, if we ignore scale for the moment. The Mountain Division (2E, in 1E the Mountain Offensive Squad) has similiar "kilt/short-shorts" in the hip region seen on most of the units in question, and MD BA also sports similar shoulder area with oversized paldrins. So I don't see any real issue in that respect.

As for the knee joints, that is when we have to consider scale. The units in question are "supposed" to be ~11ft tall, nearly x2 the average height of a human male in the US. You won't be able to get the knee/elbow joints to lineup with their equivalent at that scale difference, nor are you likely to get both arms and legs occuppied simultanously nor do I think you will get the entire limb occuppied. We can even see it in those cosplay suits mentioned previously, they do show suitup (and I've found others). Now one might argue they could be shorter, making it easier to see them as PA, but at their listed size they can "work".

Still short of an official "x-ray" view or images of pilot entering/leaving the suits there isn't anything to make me think the designs could not be used as PA, even if it is loosely defined. Anything after this point is likely just going around in circles on the topic.

Sambot wrote:1. I kind of remember the Regis taking most of the Protoculture with her when she left but I don't remember how much was left. I also thought Rem made more matrix's so there would be a supply of Protoculture but they wouldn't make the mistake of defoliating Optera again.

Its going to come down to what continuity you are looking at. In the Shadow Chronicles continuity, it is specifically stated the UEEF has a 1 year supply available to them post Invid Departure in the OVA (the SDF-3 carries the original PC Matrix/Factory to make more). In the Novels the REF did acquire a new Matrix/Factory (IIRC w/Rem's help), and the Regis took all the OG Matrix/Factory PC used by the REF but not the "new" stuff though again the Matrix was missing but I don't recall the endurance of the stockpile.

Sambot wrote:3. GCM? I do think just using a few mecha from TNG would be limiting. There's still a lot of Mecha from TNG and the Sentinels that HG could use. With Macross Mecha, they're are the Expeditionary Marines Destroids. They're similar but different enough to avoid legalities. They could continue that.

GCM = Genisis Climber Mospeada. The OSM version of the New Generation (3rd) arc, just like SDC: SC is the OSM version of the Robotech Masters/Southern Cross (2nd) arc.

Sambot wrote:IMU producers? I would have thought the Invid would have destroyed all the mecha producers. Maybe someone saved plans or designers survived?

From a 2E PB RPG standpoint the IMU producers would be those that produce a given IMU design in some level of bulk (which is suggested about the designs that saw print IIRC) or frequency (no one design). Those people could post Occupation could form their own "entities" that would continue designing and building mecha either for the UEEF or other human organizations on Earth.

ShadowLogan wrote: ↑Sun Oct 08, 2023 10:04 am

Sambot wrote:Basilisk - The Human body can't fit into the limbs. There's no way for the legs to get through the hip joint, nor can the arms fit through the two joints that make up the shoulder.
Fenris - A Human's legs can't get through the knee joints and the arms have two separate joints.
Kraken - looks like something a Human can wear so could be power armor.
Manticore - Difficult to tell with the art in the RPG book but source material shows the same knee and shoulder joint problems above.
Triton - We see that one animated as a Battloid.
Unicorn - Same hip, knee, and shoulder issues as above.

Looking at some of the (ASC) specialist branches body armor I don't see an issue with the hips or shoulders, if we ignore scale for the moment. The Mountain Division (2E, in 1E the Mountain Offensive Squad) has similiar "kilt/short-shorts" in the hip region seen on most of the units in question, and MD BA also sports similar shoulder area with oversized paldrins. So I don't see any real issue in that respect.

I wasn't referring to the Body Armor. Those are clearly worn. I was referring to the Battloids/Power Armor.

As for the knee joints, that is when we have to consider scale. The units in question are "supposed" to be ~11ft tall, nearly x2 the average height of a human male in the US. You won't be able to get the knee/elbow joints to lineup with their equivalent at that scale difference, nor are you likely to get both arms and legs occuppied simultanously nor do I think you will get the entire limb occuppied. We can even see it in those cosplay suits mentioned previously, they do show suitup (and I've found others). Now one might argue they could be shorter, making it easier to see them as PA, but at their listed size they can "work".

If even the upper part of the limbs could be occupied, even one set I'd say it's a power armor. But for that to work the "pilot" would have to at least get into the upper legs and/or upper arms. I see zero chance of that happening. Not with those joints.

Still short of an official "x-ray" view or images of pilot entering/leaving the suits there isn't anything to make me think the designs could not be used as PA, even if it is loosely defined. Anything after this point is likely just going around in circles on the topic.

They can't even get past the hip and shoulder joints. That's the key. If all of the Mecha's arms and legs are robotic, it's not a power armor. The limbs need to be at least partially occupied.

Sambot wrote:1. I kind of remember the Regis taking most of the Protoculture with her when she left but I don't remember how much was left. I also thought Rem made more matrix's so there would be a supply of Protoculture but they wouldn't make the mistake of defoliating Optera again.

Its going to come down to what continuity you are looking at. In the Shadow Chronicles continuity, it is specifically stated the UEEF has a 1 year supply available to them post Invid Departure in the OVA (the SDF-3 carries the original PC Matrix/Factory to make more). In the Novels the REF did acquire a new Matrix/Factory (IIRC w/Rem's help), and the Regis took all the OG Matrix/Factory PC used by the REF but not the "new" stuff though again the Matrix was missing but I don't recall the endurance of the stockpile.

Ok

Sambot wrote:3. GCM? I do think just using a few mecha from TNG would be limiting. There's still a lot of Mecha from TNG and the Sentinels that HG could use. With Macross Mecha, they're are the Expeditionary Marines Destroids. They're similar but different enough to avoid legalities. They could continue that.

GCM = Genisis Climber Mospeada. The OSM version of the New Generation (3rd) arc, just like SDC: SC is the OSM version of the Robotech Masters/Southern Cross (2nd) arc.

Cool, thanks.

Sambot wrote:IMU producers? I would have thought the Invid would have destroyed all the mecha producers. Maybe someone saved plans or designers survived?

From a 2E PB RPG standpoint the IMU producers would be those that produce a given IMU design in some level of bulk (which is suggested about the designs that saw print IIRC) or frequency (no one design). Those people could post Occupation could form their own "entities" that would continue designing and building mecha either for the UEEF or other human organizations on Earth.

IMU?

Unless there was some hidden factory that somehow managed to survive which had a stockpile of raw material, I don't know how new mecha could be built without support from the UEEF. At least not on Earth. Maybe there's still functioning factories on the moon or else where in the solar system? The Regis seemed to largely leave everything outside of near Earth orbit alone.

There could also be other fleets or colonies that don't have the latest UEEF mecha. They may have even developed their own mecha.

Sambot wrote:I wasn't referring to the Body Armor. Those are clearly worn. I was referring to the Battloids/Power Armor.

I know, however features in the hip-pelvis/shoulder area of the PA suits can also be found in the body armor that I think you are calling out. As I said this is us just going around in circles.

Sambot wrote:IMU?

IMU = Improvised Mecha Unit

They are something Palladium introduced in the 2E NG SB and 2E Genesis Pits SB (there's a hovercycle/Cyclone combo, a VHT-2 variant with different weapons, an AGAC battloid w/Defender Arms, and another one that is like a cross between the Zentreadi FPA and the G-mode VF-1) with "guidelines" for homebrew stuff that are similar to the "Stingers" introduced in the old Comics and Novels, the main difference being in terms of era (NG vs post-Macross pre-Sentinels). The Legends Star Wars EU might refer to them as Uglies.

What shape Earth's actual infrastructure and manufacturing capacity is in isn't clear. We know people were able to maintain vehicles for the decade plus occupation as shown by various civilians and military units.

Still even if the Earth's infrastructure isn't in the best of shape to produce mecha, the individuals who created the IMUs might be recruited by the UEEF for R&D... Especially if they need to innovate given the post TSC situation with the PC supply and Shadow Tech.

ShadowLogan wrote: ↑Sun Oct 08, 2023 4:35 pm

Sambot wrote:I wasn't referring to the Body Armor. Those are clearly worn. I was referring to the Battloids/Power Armor.

I know, however features in the hip-pelvis/shoulder area of the PA suits can also be found in the body armor that I think you are calling out. As I said this is us just going around in circles.

The Kraken and the Body Armors are similar. The other "power armor" are more like thigh bone connected to hip. The former flows with the human body. The other emulates it's structure but a human can't fit through it.

Sambot wrote:IMU?

IMU = Improvised Mecha Unit

They are something Palladium introduced in the 2E NG SB and 2E Genesis Pits SB (there's a hovercycle/Cyclone combo, a VHT-2 variant with different weapons, an AGAC battloid w/Defender Arms, and another one that is like a cross between the Zentreadi FPA and the G-mode VF-1) with "guidelines" for homebrew stuff that are similar to the "Stingers" introduced in the old Comics and Novels, the main difference being in terms of era (NG vs post-Macross pre-Sentinels). The Legends Star Wars EU might refer to them as Uglies.

What shape Earth's actual infrastructure and manufacturing capacity is in isn't clear. We know people were able to maintain vehicles for the decade plus occupation as shown by various civilians and military units.

Still even if the Earth's infrastructure isn't in the best of shape to produce mecha, the individuals who created the IMUs might be recruited by the UEEF for R&D... Especially if they need to innovate given the post TSC situation with the PC supply and Shadow Tech.

Oh okay. I remember the mecha but I didn't remember they had a term for them or that they had so much infrastructure available. I can see FrankenMecha being made during the Invid occupation but I'm not sure about there being factories. Most of the best items seem to be in the hands of sympathizers but I don't remember mecha or obvious military equipment being allowed. I can see mecha designers and factory workers being recruited by the UEEF. Finding them would be a trick though.

Sambot wrote:The Kraken and the Body Armors are similar. The other "power armor" are more like thigh bone connected to hip. The former flows with the human body. The other emulates it's structure but a human can't fit through it.

As I've said this is us just going around in circles. Without some "X-Ray" view of the units showing the pilot inside we really can't say how much of an issue the XYZ concern actually is for a given limb. Given Cosplay examples, we know that based on the size of the suits it is certainly possible to fit a person into a suit that size. What we do not know is how the mecha would differ from these cosplay examples, for all we know the legs are purely mechanical and the pilot is (essentially) standing in the torso with their arms in the mecha's arm given the scale of the units. Nor do we know if all the suits are the same in terms of pilot placement.

Sambot wrote:Oh okay. I remember the mecha but I didn't remember they had a term for them or that they had so much infrastructure available. I can see FrankenMecha being made during the Invid occupation but I'm not sure about there being factories. Most of the best items seem to be in the hands of sympathizers but I don't remember mecha or obvious military equipment being allowed. I can see mecha designers and factory workers being recruited by the UEEF. Finding them would be a trick though.
Top

The term was used in the books, and on the boards for a while when there was that long running fan posting of IMU back stories (for all eras). For whatever reason PB created a new term instead of using the "Stinger" term.

As far as the infrastructure in place. The books don't really go into it, but it sort of has to be present on some level(s). They might not have factories for producing new XYZ widget, but they certainly have assembly "factories" given the IMUs in the books are produced in some volume as standardized designs. In this respect the IMU factories probably aren't much different in concept to our modern end-point factories (where a car is assembled for example, with various parts being sourced from other factory locations) with salvage operations taking place of the feeder factories (where individual parts are made that get shipped to to the final assembly factory).

ShadowLogan wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 11:58 am

Sambot wrote:The Kraken and the Body Armors are similar. The other "power armor" are more like thigh bone connected to hip. The former flows with the human body. The other emulates it's structure but a human can't fit through it.

As I've said this is us just going around in circles. Without some "X-Ray" view of the units showing the pilot inside we really can't say how much of an issue the XYZ concern actually is for a given limb. Given Cosplay examples, we know that based on the size of the suits it is certainly possible to fit a person into a suit that size. What we do not know is how the mecha would differ from these cosplay examples, for all we know the legs are purely mechanical and the pilot is (essentially) standing in the torso with their arms in the mecha's arm given the scale of the units. Nor do we know if all the suits are the same in terms of pilot placement.

That depends entirely on how the joints are made. From looking at the art, it is not possible for a Human to wear those mecha as Power Armor.

Sambot wrote:Oh okay. I remember the mecha but I didn't remember they had a term for them or that they had so much infrastructure available. I can see FrankenMecha being made during the Invid occupation but I'm not sure about there being factories. Most of the best items seem to be in the hands of sympathizers but I don't remember mecha or obvious military equipment being allowed. I can see mecha designers and factory workers being recruited by the UEEF. Finding them would be a trick though.
Top

The term was used in the books, and on the boards for a while when there was that long running fan posting of IMU back stories (for all eras). For whatever reason PB created a new term instead of using the "Stinger" term.

I don't remember it but it's been a while since I read that closely and I don't think I was on the boards then. I do remember Stingers from the comic books though. That maybe why PB didn't use it.

As far as the infrastructure in place. The books don't really go into it, but it sort of has to be present on some level(s). They might not have factories for producing new XYZ widget, but they certainly have assembly "factories" given the IMUs in the books are produced in some volume as standardized designs. In this respect the IMU factories probably aren't much different in concept to our modern end-point factories (where a car is assembled for example, with various parts being sourced from other factory locations) with salvage operations taking place of the feeder factories (where individual parts are made that get shipped to to the final assembly factory).

I can see some kind of assembly line to convert salvage into something usable. I can see them settling on a standard design instead of a lot of individual ones. Producing in volume though requires a steady supply of parts. A factory would be helpful too. Without parts and a factory production is going to be limited as they'd all be hand built from limited supplies. And that's making things out of salvage. I can't see fabricating completely new mecha. Even an SDC Tank would be difficult.

Sambot wrote:I don't remember it but it's been a while since I read that closely and I don't think I was on the boards then. I do remember Stingers from the comic books though. That maybe why PB didn't use it.

I didn't think it was that long ago, but you're right it appears to be from before you joined the boards. It starts on page 3 of the 13page thread (started in 2011 and went until 2014) and contains countless numbers of fan created IMUs:
https://www.palladiumbooks.com/forums/v ... &start=100

when PB had the RT game license, HG was being very strict about what you could and couldn't include, and anything from the comics other than the wildstorm runs was part of the "can't use". towards the end HG started letting up a little, thus why the New Gen sourcebook, genesis pits book, and UEEF marines could include original ideas, but i suspect that the "no comics" thing still applied. so the term "stinger" would have been off the table, but the general concept of mecha cobbled together from spare parts could be worked with. and to be honest, i think "Improvised Mecha Units" fits as a general in universe term for that approach to making mecha, and "frankenmecha" a reasonably common slang term given that similar terms exist IRL for computers, cars, and such custom built from parts. that they weren't allowed to use "stinger" thus isn't really a big issue, as that could just be another slang term.

ShadowLogan wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2023 8:45 am

Sambot wrote:I don't remember it but it's been a while since I read that closely and I don't think I was on the boards then. I do remember Stingers from the comic books though. That maybe why PB didn't use it.

I didn't think it was that long ago, but you're right it appears to be from before you joined the boards. It starts on page 3 of the 13page thread (started in 2011 and went until 2014) and contains countless numbers of fan created IMUs:
https://www.palladiumbooks.com/forums/v ... &start=100

That would explain it. I do imagine there would be a wide variety of fan created IMUs.

glitterboy2098 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2023 4:12 pm when PB had the RT game license, HG was being very strict about what you could and couldn't include, and anything from the comics other than the wildstorm runs was part of the "can't use". towards the end HG started letting up a little, thus why the New Gen sourcebook, genesis pits book, and UEEF marines could include original ideas, but i suspect that the "no comics" thing still applied. so the term "stinger" would have been off the table, but the general concept of mecha cobbled together from spare parts could be worked with. and to be honest, i think "Improvised Mecha Units" fits as a general in universe term for that approach to making mecha, and "frankenmecha" a reasonably common slang term given that similar terms exist IRL for computers, cars, and such custom built from parts. that they weren't allowed to use "stinger" thus isn't really a big issue, as that could just be another slang term.

I can see HG being very controlling. It's a shame too. The other sources did have some cool things. It would have been nice to see them in a Palladium book.
Slang terms are okay as long as everyone knows what they mean.

So, it's not really a future-design, but, if you notice, most of the Macross-Mecha can be interchanged. You can, technically, install a Raider-X's arms on an Excalibur. One of these days, I'm going to have fun with Photoshop.

Perhaps that's an idea for another gaming-system like Battletech, where you can get technical. One gaming-system, you can't use EPC (Electron Particle-Cannons), in the atmosphere. So, an Excalibur would use those in space, only. etc.

Peacebringer wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 11:16 pm So, it's not really a future-design, but, if you notice, most of the Macross-Mecha can be interchanged. You can, technically, install a Raider-X's arms on an Excalibur. One of these days, I'm going to have fun with Photoshop.

Yeah, but where you going to put the ammunition drums? Replace the shoulder missile launchers? THat's going to go over real well, because they're the second-best anti-armor weapon on the Excalibur, and have way better range than the PBCs.

Peacebringer wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 11:16 pm So, it's not really a future-design, but, if you notice, most of the Macross-Mecha can be interchanged. You can, technically, install a Raider-X's arms on an Excalibur. One of these days, I'm going to have fun with Photoshop.

Perhaps that's an idea for another gaming-system like Battletech, where you can get technical. One gaming-system, you can't use EPC (Electron Particle-Cannons), in the atmosphere. So, an Excalibur would use those in space, only. etc.

The TomahawkExcalibur and Masamune? were designed to be able to swap weapon packages (arms, shoulders, and back). I'm not sure that was carried over with the DefenderRadar-X and Phalanx/Spartan. I do think there's enough commonality that the lower bodies could be swapped and maybe the Tomahawk's and Defender's arms but I don't think the arm weapons would work. As taalismn said the Tomahawk would lack ammo bins for the autocannons and the Defender would lack power cables for the PPCs.

That said, I could see that happening with FrankenMecha. I think there's enough commonality that a fully functioning mecha could be built out of several different Destroids. Providing there's enough parts and techs available.

It's not Robotech; but Macross Frontier included a transforming version of the MAC II; which suggests the possibility that non-transforming mechanics designs can be rebuilt as veritechs. If we port that notion into Robotech, one possibility would be to do a “have your cake and eat it, too” solution to a couple of controversial mecha designs, by saying that when they were originally produced, the ASC's Sylph fighter and the UEEF's Condor Battloid were non-transforming; but at some point during or after the Shadow Chronicles, both get adapted into Veritechs: the Sylph becomes a Veritech fighter, gaining a Battloid mode and/or a Guardian mode; and the Condor becomes a Veritech hovertank, gaining a vehicle mode and possibly a gun platform mode. Maybe suggest that they were originally intended to be Veritechs, but technical problems prevented them from being produced as such originally; but later on as the technology advanced, the technical problems were resolved and a new generation of each was produced with veritech capabilities.

As well, I'd raid the IMAI files: if the Mospeada Destroids aren't retconned into being Sentinels-era designs (the Cougar, Jackal, Boxer, and Tiger; sadly, they didn't make it into the UEEF Marines Sourcebook, though the Tiger was featured in one of the more recent comics that Tommy Yune was responsible for, in a scene where Dana was evacuating from Earth), they could be presented as new designs introduced during or after the Shadow Chronicles.

FrankenMecha would primarily be an Earthside thing; and sadly, they'd tend to be almost universally not Veritechs, as even transformable designs would tend to lose the ability to transform as parts from other designs get grafted onto them.

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/OmQ61g
Veritech go brrrrrt