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Hi there!

Just as an adventure idea, (from Carl Gleba)
a CK vs. Vampires adventure should focus
more on finding the undead, and the moral
questions of having to deal with a decepted
human pawns, who will fight the CK without
knowing that they are protecting the bloodsuckers.

Not like having the almighty CK to acquire
and carry around waterguns and wooden
poles...

Just my 5 cents.

Adios
KLM

Max™ wrote:Well, Supernatural P.S. attacks have been generally accepted to damage vamps.

Cosmic Blasts, I'm going to say no, it isn't mentioned specifically.

The Weapon, as an extension of the Knight, wielded with his Supernatural P.S.? Hell yes it hurts the vamp.

Just means they have to go mano a vampo, of course they would still be able to use knockback, so you can get the neat image of a CK swarmed by 50 vamps firing his X5 Blast and sending them all flying away from him...oh, I also allow CK's to use the amped up blasts in an atmosphere, no reason not too.

No, Supernatural Damage from Supernatural Weapons, Spells, and Creatures are known to do damage to Vampires.

ARCHIE Three or Desmond Bradford could conceivably create all manner of Robots and Mutants with Supernatural Strength (yes, I know that Robots NEVER get "Supernatural" P.S., only "robotic," but I'm illustrating a point). but such Creatures, unless incorporating a Mystical property, can NEVER damage a Vampire by Strength alone.

Now on the other hand, Faerie Folk, most of which do not have Supernatural P.S., can ALL damage Vampires in hand-to-hand combat because they are (supernatural) Creatures of Magic.

Remember, in Rifts, Supernatural P.S. is not automatically the same as Supernatural Damage.........confusing as the Strength/Damage System can be at times.......

KLM wrote:Hi there!

Cosmic blasts can be turboed by spending PPE.

Therefore it is magic.

Magic damage hurts vampires.

QED.

Adios
KLM

Non-Sequitur.

PPE has little direct correlation with actual Mystic Forces, even though that is what that particular form of energy most associated with.

According to Kevin, ALL living things posess PPE....even plants and insects.

Yet that doesn't make them magic....

Hi!

For one, the super-powered cosmic blast
will not blast a crater big enough for
a volcano.
This blast, even when focused by a
knight's weapon and fired by a really
high level character causes causes like
2d6*100+200 MD.

Now the Smasher's main gun is more
powerful, but only cause "forest fires"...
---

Otherwise I am really amused by you guys.
Someone send a blast from his eyes, powered
by the stuff of magic, yet you argue that it is
not neccessarily magic...

I wish that the Great Buckethead Gawd from
SW epIV would hear that...


Adios
KLM

cornholioprime wrote:

Max™ wrote:Well, Supernatural P.S. attacks have been generally accepted to damage vamps.

Cosmic Blasts, I'm going to say no, it isn't mentioned specifically.

The Weapon, as an extension of the Knight, wielded with his Supernatural P.S.? Hell yes it hurts the vamp.

Just means they have to go mano a vampo, of course they would still be able to use knockback, so you can get the neat image of a CK swarmed by 50 vamps firing his X5 Blast and sending them all flying away from him...oh, I also allow CK's to use the amped up blasts in an atmosphere, no reason not too.

No, Supernatural Damage from Supernatural Weapons, Spells, and Creatures are known to do damage to Vampires.

ARCHIE Three or Desmond Bradford could conceivably create all manner of Robots and Mutants with Supernatural Strength (yes, I know that Robots NEVER get "Supernatural" P.S., only "robotic," but I'm illustrating a point). but such Creatures, unless incorporating a Mystical property, can NEVER damage a Vampire by Strength alone.

Now on the other hand, Faerie Folk, most of which do not have Supernatural P.S., can ALL damage Vampires in hand-to-hand combat because they are (supernatural) Creatures of Magic.

Remember, in Rifts, Supernatural P.S. is not automatically the same as Supernatural Damage.........confusing as the Strength/Damage System can be at times.......

The conversion into Cosmo Knight turn the person into a supernatural being so they can hurt Vampires. Their weapon as an extension of themselves can also hurt them. The cosmic blast not being supernatural / magical will not hurt them.

Hi there!

Mathematics first:
At 9th level, the damage is 4d6*10, when focused
throught the weapon it is 4d6*10+40 (since I am a
generous GM), multiply it by 5 for 100 PPE, then
it is 20d6*10+200 which is 2d6*100+200 for
simplicity's sake.

This is 900 MDC on average.

Now, the PW sourcebook writes down the Smasher
class cruiser, which main cannon does d6*1000 MD
in a 30 feet radius (against planetary targets), plus
another d6*10 MD heat damage in 100 feet radius
around that zone.
Probably a crater 100 feet deep...

Now, this cannon does an average 3500 MD per
shot, making it roughly 4 times as powerful as
a high level CK's blast, with 10 times longer range.
Also, the CK can fire this blast 6 times on 10th level
(if he is a bit above average, since this character has
600 PPE on average, and assuming the character
"paid" its creation cost in MDC)...

So the CB is not the weapon of choice to level a city,
maybe one can blast away a city block with it,
but if in emergency, especially in a hi-tech, MDC
enviroment it can be fired with even less precaution.

So, it needs to be fired carefully, but will not
endanger a whole planet.

Adios
KLM

Hi there!

Just some details:
Every super powered blast counts 100 PPE.
This is expensive for even a Cosmo Knight.

Now, we can rule either
a, "5x" Cosmic blast do not have blast
radius - ie. contained collateral damage

b, They do have a blast, which means
both considerable collateral damage,
and a lot of dead vampires, when
shot into the mob.

(assuming that it can be fired
in an atmosphere and does damage to
vampires)

Adios
KLM

SpiritInterface wrote:

cornholioprime wrote:

Max™ wrote:Well, Supernatural P.S. attacks have been generally accepted to damage vamps.

Cosmic Blasts, I'm going to say no, it isn't mentioned specifically.

The Weapon, as an extension of the Knight, wielded with his Supernatural P.S.? Hell yes it hurts the vamp.

Just means they have to go mano a vampo, of course they would still be able to use knockback, so you can get the neat image of a CK swarmed by 50 vamps firing his X5 Blast and sending them all flying away from him...oh, I also allow CK's to use the amped up blasts in an atmosphere, no reason not too.

No, Supernatural Damage from Supernatural Weapons, Spells, and Creatures are known to do damage to Vampires.

ARCHIE Three or Desmond Bradford could conceivably create all manner of Robots and Mutants with Supernatural Strength (yes, I know that Robots NEVER get "Supernatural" P.S., only "robotic," but I'm illustrating a point). but such Creatures, unless incorporating a Mystical property, can NEVER damage a Vampire by Strength alone.

Now on the other hand, Faerie Folk, most of which do not have Supernatural P.S., can ALL damage Vampires in hand-to-hand combat because they are (supernatural) Creatures of Magic.

Remember, in Rifts, Supernatural P.S. is not automatically the same as Supernatural Damage.........confusing as the Strength/Damage System can be at times.......

The conversion into Cosmo Knight turn the person into a supernatural being so they can hurt Vampires. Their weapon as an extension of themselves can also hurt them. The cosmic blast not being supernatural / magical will not hurt them.

No, the conversion from ??? into Cosmo-Knight turns the Character into one of Rifts' greatest mysteries:

A Carella Character.

CJ, much as I like his work (Rifts: Phase World is my own personal favorite Game Setting in Palladium), has always had a really hard time separating Magic from Physics from Psionics, whereas Kevin ALWAYS made clear distinctions between the Three Powers.

Carella has been cited calling all manner of Creatures from Mutants to ESPers "Supernatural" Creatures........which puts him at odds with virtually EVERYONE else in the Rifts Books, who didn't seem to have such a problem.

At best, and according to their Character Description, Cosmo-Knights are "normal" Sentient Creatures altered on the molecular level and imbued with (beyond) Super-Psionic Powers.

Psionics, of course, usually "defying" the laws of Physics, fits the technical definition of "Supernatural."

But NOT "Supernatural" as defined by Rifts.

Hi there!

Then raises the question:
Shall I purge this block - which means that
innocents will die (who will probably die
in time anyway, and some of them will
be turned vampires) or just let the vampires
go (or let them kill me) to kill some
more people...

Has the Forge the mentality of a realy stupid
reporter maing headlines when in wartime
someone blast away an AAA site - which was
intentionally placed on the roof of a hospital?

Up to you, if you are the GM.

---
Still, as I said above, in the scenario (CK vs. vampires)
i would say the main points are decisions, deceptions,
and would not focusing on the hardships of killing a vampire
(for which task the CK is ideally sutied, IMO).
Killing a vampire, when you tracked the bloodsucker
down, and get rid of his bodyguards and some really
inniocent pawns, who were trying to protect their "master",
is the easy part. Getting to that stage is not.

IMO.

Adios
KLM

Adios
KLM

cornholioprime wrote:

SpiritInterface wrote:The conversion into Cosmo Knight turn the person into a supernatural being so they can hurt Vampires. Their weapon as an extension of themselves can also hurt them. The cosmic blast not being supernatural / magical will not hurt them.

No, the conversion from ??? into Cosmo-Knight turns the Character into one of Rifts' greatest mysteries:

A Carella Character.

CJ, much as I like his work (Rifts: Phase World is my own personal favorite Game Setting in Palladium), has always had a really hard time separating Magic from Physics from Psionics, whereas Kevin ALWAYS made clear distinctions between the Three Powers.

Carella has been cited calling all manner of Creatures from Mutants to ESPers "Supernatural" Creatures........which puts him at odds with virtually EVERYONE else in the Rifts Books, who didn't seem to have such a problem.

At best, and according to their Character Description, Cosmo-Knights are "normal" Sentient Creatures altered on the molecular level and imbued with (beyond) Super-Psionic Powers.

Psionics, of course, usually "defying" the laws of Physics, fits the technical definition of "Supernatural."

But NOT "Supernatural" as defined by Rifts.

Then why are all of their abilities based on PPE(magic energy) instead of ISP(psionic energy)? Also if they were true Psionics then why aren't they saving as master Psionics?

SpiritInterface wrote:

cornholioprime wrote:

SpiritInterface wrote:The conversion into Cosmo Knight turn the person into a supernatural being so they can hurt Vampires. Their weapon as an extension of themselves can also hurt them. The cosmic blast not being supernatural / magical will not hurt them.

No, the conversion from ??? into Cosmo-Knight turns the Character into one of Rifts' greatest mysteries:

A Carella Character.

CJ, much as I like his work (Rifts: Phase World is my own personal favorite Game Setting in Palladium), has always had a really hard time separating Magic from Physics from Psionics, whereas Kevin ALWAYS made clear distinctions between the Three Powers.

Carella has been cited calling all manner of Creatures from Mutants to ESPers "Supernatural" Creatures........which puts him at odds with virtually EVERYONE else in the Rifts Books, who didn't seem to have such a problem.

At best, and according to their Character Description, Cosmo-Knights are "normal" Sentient Creatures altered on the molecular level and imbued with (beyond) Super-Psionic Powers.

Psionics, of course, usually "defying" the laws of Physics, fits the technical definition of "Supernatural."

But NOT "Supernatural" as defined by Rifts.

Then why are all of their abilities based on PPE(magic energy) instead of ISP(psionic energy)? Also if they were true Psionics then why aren't they saving as master Psionics?

A]] Psionic POWERS does not necessarily make you Psionic Creature, nor does it impel to use PPE instead of ISP; just ask any Dragon.

B]] Even when one is actually a True Supernatural Creature, you are STILL not automatically afforded the opportunity to damage a Vampire.

There are a great many Supernatural Creatures that cannot automatically damage Vamps or Weres (while, yes, all Creatures of Magic can).

C]] As stated -and CITED and noted a hundred times -only those Creatures that have specific wording in their OCC/RCC Descriptions can harm Vampires in hand to hand combat.

Since Carella, himself, has created MANY such Creatures with such specific wording that they damage Vampires and Weres in hand-to-hand combat, (like the Colombian Anti-Monster in Rifts: South America to name just one, and the Sea Inquisitors in Rifts: Underseas to name another), one cannot even make the claim that he "forgot" to mention that Cosmos can do the same.

The Math is simple.

Established Precedent
+ NO specific mention that a given Creature can damage Vampires in Combat
_________________________________________________________________
= A Creature/OCC/RCC who cannot damage Vampires on his own in Canon.

SpiritInterface wrote:

cornholioprime wrote:

SpiritInterface wrote:The conversion into Cosmo Knight turn the person into a supernatural being so they can hurt Vampires. Their weapon as an extension of themselves can also hurt them. The cosmic blast not being supernatural / magical will not hurt them.

No, the conversion from ??? into Cosmo-Knight turns the Character into one of Rifts' greatest mysteries:

A Carella Character.

CJ, much as I like his work (Rifts: Phase World is my own personal favorite Game Setting in Palladium), has always had a really hard time separating Magic from Physics from Psionics, whereas Kevin ALWAYS made clear distinctions between the Three Powers.

Carella has been cited calling all manner of Creatures from Mutants to ESPers "Supernatural" Creatures........which puts him at odds with virtually EVERYONE else in the Rifts Books, who didn't seem to have such a problem.

At best, and according to their Character Description, Cosmo-Knights are "normal" Sentient Creatures altered on the molecular level and imbued with (beyond) Super-Psionic Powers.

Psionics, of course, usually "defying" the laws of Physics, fits the technical definition of "Supernatural."

But NOT "Supernatural" as defined by Rifts.

Then why are all of their abilities based on PPE(magic energy) instead of ISP(psionic energy)? Also if they were true Psionics then why aren't they saving as master Psionics?

A]] Psionic POWERS do not necessarily make you Psionic Creature. And PPE Usage does NOT automatically make you a Supernatural Creature.


A]] Even when one is actually a True Supernatural Creature, you are STILL not automatically afforded the opportunity to damage a Vampire.

There are a great many Supernatural Creatures that cannot automatically damage Vamps or Weres (while, yes, all Creatures of Magic can).

B]] As stated -and CITED and noted a hundred times -only those Creatures that have specific wording in their OCC/RCC Descriptions can harm Vampires in hand to hand combat.

Since Carella, himself, has created MANY such Creatures with such specific wording that they damage Vampires and Weres in hand-to-hand combat, (like the Colombian Anti-Monster in Rifts: South America to name just one, and the Sea Inquisitors in Rifts: Underseas to name another), one cannot even make the claim that he "forgot" to mention that Cosmos can do the same.

The Math is simple.

Established Precedent
+ NO specific mention that a given Creature can damage Vampires in Combat
_________________________________________________________________
= A Creature/OCC/RCC who cannot damage Vampires on his own in Canon.

SpiritInterface wrote:

cornholioprime wrote:

Max™ wrote:Well, Supernatural P.S. attacks have been generally accepted to damage vamps.

Cosmic Blasts, I'm going to say no, it isn't mentioned specifically.

The Weapon, as an extension of the Knight, wielded with his Supernatural P.S.? Hell yes it hurts the vamp.

Just means they have to go mano a vampo, of course they would still be able to use knockback, so you can get the neat image of a CK swarmed by 50 vamps firing his X5 Blast and sending them all flying away from him...oh, I also allow CK's to use the amped up blasts in an atmosphere, no reason not too.

No, Supernatural Damage from Supernatural Weapons, Spells, and Creatures are known to do damage to Vampires.

ARCHIE Three or Desmond Bradford could conceivably create all manner of Robots and Mutants with Supernatural Strength (yes, I know that Robots NEVER get "Supernatural" P.S., only "robotic," but I'm illustrating a point). but such Creatures, unless incorporating a Mystical property, can NEVER damage a Vampire by Strength alone.

Now on the other hand, Faerie Folk, most of which do not have Supernatural P.S., can ALL damage Vampires in hand-to-hand combat because they are (supernatural) Creatures of Magic.

Remember, in Rifts, Supernatural P.S. is not automatically the same as Supernatural Damage.........confusing as the Strength/Damage System can be at times.......

The conversion into Cosmo Knight turn the person into a supernatural being so they can hurt Vampires. Their weapon as an extension of themselves can also hurt them. The cosmic blast not being supernatural / magical will not hurt them.

I have not decided whether they can damage vampires (my gut says they can), but I would like to point out that their weapon is a focused and contained cosmic blast. Not an extension of the wielder. If the blast cannot harm vampires, then the weapon cannot either. But I am not going to say either way just yet...

cornholioprime wrote:

Braden, GMPhD wrote:

Great Cthulhu wrote:I have two Questions about Cosmo Knights :

- Can Cosmo Knights possess psionics ? In Phase World, It's not said they can but it's not said they can't

- Can Cosmo Knights damage vampires with their cosmic blasts and cosmic weapons ?

1. I would rule that they cannot have psionics. they have enough going for them as is!

2. yeah sure. Why not?

Disagreed with Braden....sort of.

1. Absolutely NOTHING prohibiting them from getting Psionics.
Braden's "NO" Response is a Game Balance Issue, not a Possibility/Impossibility Issue, as far I can see.

In fact, now that I think more on it, Cosmo-Knights are said to lose SKILLS, not ABILITIES. [/quote]

I'll have to drag out my book, I remember for the longest time thikng about making a character who would also be a major psychic,and then reading something about how they lost all the old abilities form their previous life.....

In Rifts, precedent has been rather firmly established that Spells/Weapons/Damage/Effects have to SPECIFICALLY say in their Description that they can damage Vampires.

No it hasn't. Period.

The class description says they are supernatural creatures, and that their strength is supernatural. The two together are pretty universal vampire damagers. I say yes, they can damage vampires.

Jesterzzn wrote:The class description says they are supernatural creatures, and that their strength is supernatural. The two together are pretty universal vampire damagers. I say yes, they can damage vampires.

Thank you, that's what I thought.

EPIC wrote:but aren't damaging and killing a vampire two different things? though a cosmo knight may be able to damage a vampire would they be able to destroy one?

Nothing can kill a vampire except the stated methods, not even dragons and gods.

gadrin wrote:

gadrin wrote:

EPIC wrote:but aren't damaging and killing a vampire two different things? though a cosmo knight may be able to damage a vampire would they be able to destroy one?

grab a hold of it with SN PS of 50, fly it into outerspace, to the sun.

it'd be in ashes probably within an AU of the star.

I know, I know: Vampire turns to mist and evades the spaceflight.

Cosmo knights can fly FTL, maybe you can catch the vampire off guard?

On the damage topic:
Also, for the record, the book also lists Vampires as one of the Cosmo-Kinights mortal enemies. It would really suck if your "supernatural" powers didn't work on your mortal enemy.

Jesterzzn wrote:

EPIC wrote:but aren't damaging and killing a vampire two different things? though a cosmo knight may be able to damage a vampire would they be able to destroy one?

Nothing can kill a vampire except the stated methods, not even dragons and gods.

Wellll......

A few Gods do have the Ability to kill 'em outright...usually major Gods of Light.

cornholioprime wrote:

Jesterzzn wrote:

EPIC wrote:but aren't damaging and killing a vampire two different things? though a cosmo knight may be able to damage a vampire would they be able to destroy one?

Nothing can kill a vampire except the stated methods, not even dragons and gods.

Wellll......

A few Gods do have the Ability to kill 'em outright...usually major Gods of Light.

*sigh*

Please don't tell me that even you have started arguing the exception as the rule.

Jesterzzn wrote:

cornholioprime wrote:

Jesterzzn wrote:

EPIC wrote:but aren't damaging and killing a vampire two different things? though a cosmo knight may be able to damage a vampire would they be able to destroy one?

Nothing can kill a vampire except the stated methods, not even dragons and gods.

Wellll......

A few Gods do have the Ability to kill 'em outright...usually major Gods of Light.

*sigh*

Please don't tell me that even you have started arguing the exception as the rule.

***shamed, Cornholioprime bows his head and refuses to make eye contact with jesterzzn as the Japanese often do when a faux pas is committed***

No, sir, I wasn't.......

Well, I once asked Palladium if the "cosmic" abilities of a Cosmo Knight are "magical" in nature and they said basically yeah - just about all of the CK's powers are fueled by PPE, the CK is considered a supernatural being, so yes, they can hurt vampires, either by tearing them limb from limb, beating the heck out of them with their cosmic weapon or blasting them to bits.

However, their powers don't fluctuate due to local PPE conditions like magic does because their power is provided to them by the cosmic forge.

Now.....whether the cosmic blasts can actually permenently DESTROY a vamp like running water or sunlight can......I never thought to ask that question.

Personally - I'd say yes, the blasts can vaporize a Vamp. But that's just my game (saves the CK from lugging around a few tons of silver, wood and water - plus it's just "cooler" my way ).

Cardiac wrote:Well, I once asked Palladium if the "cosmic" abilities of a Cosmo Knight are "magical" in nature and they said basically yeah - just about all of the CK's powers are fueled by PPE, the CK is considered a supernatural being, so yes, they can hurt vampires, either by tearing them limb from limb, beating the heck out of them with their cosmic weapon or blasting them to bits.

However, their powers don't fluctuate due to local PPE conditions like magic does because their power is provided to them by the cosmic forge.

Now.....whether the cosmic blasts can actually permenently DESTROY a vamp like running water or sunlight can......I never thought to ask that question.

Personally - I'd say yes, the blasts can vaporize a Vamp. But that's just my game (saves the CK from lugging around a few tons of silver, wood and water - plus it's just "cooler" my way ).

(Part of it) sounds semi-official... The part about "Palladium Says."

Borast wrote:

Cardiac wrote:Well, I once asked Palladium if the "cosmic" abilities of a Cosmo Knight are "magical" in nature and they said basically yeah - just about all of the CK's powers are fueled by PPE, the CK is considered a supernatural being, so yes, they can hurt vampires, either by tearing them limb from limb, beating the heck out of them with their cosmic weapon or blasting them to bits.

However, their powers don't fluctuate due to local PPE conditions like magic does because their power is provided to them by the cosmic forge.

Now.....whether the cosmic blasts can actually permenently DESTROY a vamp like running water or sunlight can......I never thought to ask that question.

Personally - I'd say yes, the blasts can vaporize a Vamp. But that's just my game (saves the CK from lugging around a few tons of silver, wood and water - plus it's just "cooler" my way ).

(Part of it) sounds semi-official... The part about "Palladium Says."

Well like I said...."Personally.....in my game..."

But yeah - considering they are the uber-powerful supernaturally-fueled forces of light in the 3 Galaxies, I think they should be able to destroy vamps outright with their blasts (them seemingly being the antithesis of everything the cosmic forge represents), but that's just me.

Kittenstomp wrote:Moderator! Moderator! Come quick, these posters are beating that horse! Oh...wait...never mind. It's already dead.

Jesterzzn wrote:

SpiritInterface wrote:

cornholioprime wrote:

Max™ wrote:Well, Supernatural P.S. attacks have been generally accepted to damage vamps.

Cosmic Blasts, I'm going to say no, it isn't mentioned specifically.

The Weapon, as an extension of the Knight, wielded with his Supernatural P.S.? Hell yes it hurts the vamp.

Just means they have to go mano a vampo, of course they would still be able to use knockback, so you can get the neat image of a CK swarmed by 50 vamps firing his X5 Blast and sending them all flying away from him...oh, I also allow CK's to use the amped up blasts in an atmosphere, no reason not too.

No, Supernatural Damage from Supernatural Weapons, Spells, and Creatures are known to do damage to Vampires.

ARCHIE Three or Desmond Bradford could conceivably create all manner of Robots and Mutants with Supernatural Strength (yes, I know that Robots NEVER get "Supernatural" P.S., only "robotic," but I'm illustrating a point). but such Creatures, unless incorporating a Mystical property, can NEVER damage a Vampire by Strength alone.

Now on the other hand, Faerie Folk, most of which do not have Supernatural P.S., can ALL damage Vampires in hand-to-hand combat because they are (supernatural) Creatures of Magic.

Remember, in Rifts, Supernatural P.S. is not automatically the same as Supernatural Damage.........confusing as the Strength/Damage System can be at times.......

The conversion into Cosmo Knight turn the person into a supernatural being so they can hurt Vampires. Their weapon as an extension of themselves can also hurt them. The cosmic blast not being supernatural / magical will not hurt them.

I have not decided whether they can damage vampires (my gut says they can), but I would like to point out that their weapon is a focused and contained cosmic blast. Not an extension of the wielder. If the blast cannot harm vampires, then the weapon cannot either. But I am not going to say either way just yet...

Erm.
Actually, the book does say that the weapon is an extension of the knight.
It says nowhere anything about it being a "physical cosmic blast"...

Vrykolas2k wrote:Erm.
Actually, the book does say that the weapon is an extension of the knight.

Quote it. Also explain why they can be stolen, if they are simply an extension of the knight.

AdeptPaladin wrote:

Jesterzzn wrote:

Vrykolas2k wrote:Erm.
Actually, the book does say that the weapon is an extension of the knight.

Quote it. Also explain why they can be stolen, if they are simply an extension of the knight.

Well, first and foremost the CK needs to expend part of his physical or spiritual essence to create it (sacrifice 50 points total of either MDC or ISP).. or the fact in the fluff text it says that the weapon itself is a 'living part of the owner' (PW, P101, subheading #7). And while, yes, the weapon can be stolen, it is implied that doing so is no easy task as the weapon will continuosly attempt to return to it's owner.

I think the best evidence that it is not just a part of the cosmo knight, is that it remains after a knight falls and does the same damage, implying that it is, once created, seperate from the powers granted by the forge.

Jesterzzn wrote:

AdeptPaladin wrote:

Jesterzzn wrote:

Vrykolas2k wrote:Erm.
Actually, the book does say that the weapon is an extension of the knight.

Quote it. Also explain why they can be stolen, if they are simply an extension of the knight.

Well, first and foremost the CK needs to expend part of his physical or spiritual essence to create it (sacrifice 50 points total of either MDC or ISP).. or the fact in the fluff text it says that the weapon itself is a 'living part of the owner' (PW, P101, subheading #7). And while, yes, the weapon can be stolen, it is implied that doing so is no easy task as the weapon will continuosly attempt to return to it's owner.

I think the best evidence that it is not just a part of the cosmo knight, is that it remains after a knight falls and does the same damage, implying that it is, once created, seperate from the powers granted by the forge.

BUT.
It loses any other extra powers that might have been invested into it, including extra damage.

AdeptPaladin wrote:

Jesterzzn wrote:

Vrykolas2k wrote:Erm.
Actually, the book does say that the weapon is an extension of the knight.

Quote it. Also explain why they can be stolen, if they are simply an extension of the knight.

Well, first and foremost the CK needs to expend part of his physical or spiritual essence to create it (sacrifice 50 points total of either MDC or ISP).. or the fact in the fluff text it says that the weapon itself is a 'living part of the owner' (PW, P101, subheading #7). And while, yes, the weapon can be stolen, it is implied that doing so is no easy task as the weapon will continuosly attempt to return to it's owner.


Personally, I apply the variant of the rules listed for rune weapons: CK's can sense their weapon precisely when within 4 miles of it and generally otherwise. (IE: "It's.. that way!" and "I feel it about 50ft to my left.. through that wall")

There ya go...

The CK can also summon and dismiss the weapon at a whim, just like the armour. It is as much a part of him/her as the armour.

(Personally, as a GM I wouldn't allow the CK to "track" the weapon, although it is an interesting idea. )

Borast wrote:The CK can also summon and dismiss the weapon at a whim, just like the armour. It is as much a part of him/her as the armour.

If they can dismiss it at a whim, how could anyone ever steal it?

Jesterzzn wrote:

Borast wrote:The CK can also summon and dismiss the weapon at a whim, just like the armour. It is as much a part of him/her as the armour.

If they can dismiss it at a whim, how could anyone ever steal it?

They can only do it while it is in their possession?

Borast wrote:

Jesterzzn wrote:

Borast wrote:The CK can also summon and dismiss the weapon at a whim, just like the armour. It is as much a part of him/her as the armour.

If they can dismiss it at a whim, how could anyone ever steal it?

They can only do it while it is in their possession?

But Possession implies its not a part of them. I do not possess my thoughts, they are a part of me. No one can steal them from me. If I must possess it for it to be mine, it isn't a part of me but becomes a tool to be used by me.

Jesterzzn wrote:

Borast wrote:

Jesterzzn wrote:

Borast wrote:The CK can also summon and dismiss the weapon at a whim, just like the armour. It is as much a part of him/her as the armour.

If they can dismiss it at a whim, how could anyone ever steal it?

They can only do it while it is in their possession?

But Possession implies its not a part of them. I do not possess my thoughts, they are a part of me. No one can steal them from me. If I must possess it for it to be mine, it isn't a part of me but becomes a tool to be used by me.

"Possession" as in in the possession of, i.e.: in his/her hands or on his/her body.

Even though the weapon is physically part of the CK, should (s)he be rendered unconcious, or disarmed (voluntarily or not), the weapon can be taken. This is especially true if the weapon is a) throwable, and b) can only be "Sent Away" if in the CK's physical possession.

Borast wrote:

Jesterzzn wrote:

Borast wrote:

Jesterzzn wrote:

Borast wrote:The CK can also summon and dismiss the weapon at a whim, just like the armour. It is as much a part of him/her as the armour.

If they can dismiss it at a whim, how could anyone ever steal it?

They can only do it while it is in their possession?

But Possession implies its not a part of them. I do not possess my thoughts, they are a part of me. No one can steal them from me. If I must possess it for it to be mine, it isn't a part of me but becomes a tool to be used by me.

"Possession" as in in the possession of, i.e.: in his/her hands or on his/her body.

Even though the weapon is physically part of the CK, should (s)he be rendered unconcious, or disarmed (voluntarily or not), the weapon can be taken. This is especially true if the weapon is a) throwable, and b) can only be "Sent Away" if in the CK's physical possession.

Okay, this argument is getting silly fast, but even so...

The fact that the knight must have it in their hands means that it is a tool, and not a part of the knight. Once he dismisses it, I can see it then becomeing a part of the knight, to be called into use at a later time. But once its summoned it is no loger part of him, it is now a tool used by him.

I had the same Question so researched it. got myself confused. thought about it. Read some random books to find info. Googled it. decided to necro a long dead thread.

I found this in Dimension Book 13.

Cosmic Energy Weapons: The Dominators are the only
race in the entire universe known to have developed weapons
that can fire directed cosmic energy. Even defining "cosmic
energy" is difficult. Scientifically, it is a mixture of protons, alpha particles, and heavy atomic nuclei. It behaves like a laser,
but has similar wave mechanics to a particle beam. It affects
magical constructs, and shares many of the supernatural attributes of sunlight, even though it contains no photons. Cosmic
energy has absolutely no radioactive signature or aftereffects.
Cosmo-Knights can generate it by will alone, making many
think it is somehow related to the phenomenon called zero-point
energy. In short, no one knows what it is or where it comes
from.

A writer from Terra Prime was once quoted as saying that
any sufficiently advanced technology would be indistinguishable from magic. To take his analogy further, any technology
built by deific beings is magic. All of the weapons used by the
Dominators, from their handheld weapons to the massive cannons on their planetoid-sized starships, are considered to be
magic in nature. This means their weapons int1ict damage to beings that are affected only by magic (vampires take half damage). Phase fields are still quite effective protection, but they are
rare and comparatively few. Only the Cosmo-Knights are
largely unaffected by Dominator energy weapons and take only
1/100th damage from all Dominator energy attacks. Many point
to this as proof that the Cosmo-Knights were indeed sent by the
Cosmic Forge specifically to stop the Dominator threat. Note
that although the Knights take no damage whatsoever from
beams of Cosmic Energy, they can still be grievously injured by
the blade of a Dominator's Star Splitter.

Therefor CK's do damage to Vampires.

But in my games CK's are powered by a cosmic Forge that is on par with a deity of light. Thank the FORGE. There for, CK's are extensions of a good deity and their powers flow from a source of light and do all damage possible to vampires. Holy Weapon YES. Cosmic Eyebeams as deadly as sunlight. An amulet cosmic Forge is as good as a holy cross pendant.

AdeptPaladin wrote:Here's a thing that will through you for a loop...

If sunlight kills vamps, and the sun is effectively a star. If on other planets, that selfsame vamp is affected by that planet's sun.. why don't vamps get toasty from starlight?

Or from the moon, which is essentially reflected sunlight.

Moonlight = starlight = sunlight.

Vamps should never be out in the open, by that token.

Effectively?!?!
It *is* a star.

Essentially?!?!
Moonlight *is* reflected sunlight...however, the key word is 'reflected.'
Sunlight "carries" the energy of "life" with it. When reflected, it looses that essence.

As for starlight affecting Vamps, consider the cube square law. The further you go, the less "life" the star can bathe you in. If Pally wanted to, they could state that somewhere about Saturn, direct sunlight no longer can harm the vamp. After all, sitting out on Triton, if you didn't know where to look, you may never pick Sol out from the background stars.

As for the OP's question... No. A CK can not seriously harm a vamp. Although, the impact of a punch or CK melee weapon, will sting and be painful, since their strength is classed as Supernatural.

Now, what YOU want in YOUR game...let's put it this way, pull out your squirt gun and shoot a vamp in my game, he'll beat you senseless for ruining his expensive silk shirt...unless you use Holy Water. So, if you want Cosmic Energy to hurt a vamp in your game...go for it. (Until we receive CANON from on-high!)