Forums of the Megaverse®

I think alot of the smaller stuff would just shatter when impacting MDC. Much like a bullet shatters when hitting water.

An OP Phase Field, wow that would be overpowered in an urban fight. Can't run or hide from someone with that. Could stroll into a base toss a gernade and walk off. To expand on your "portable forcefield tunnel" idea, would need to bring portable fields for field hospitals, HQs, barracks and so forth. Some portable Radar and maybe even siesmeic equipment aswell, the sewer system in some cities must be on the scale of the ones in The Matrix

Lets talk about Bunker Busters.

These would be bombs and missiles that can penetrate up to 20' of concrete (or MDC material) before exploding - the 20' figure is based on real life weapons ). I was going to rule that units on the ground can call in airstrikes to get rid of such positions, but would have to:

a) make 3 successful Read Sensors rolls in order to find 3 friendly GPS satellites for exact target co-ordinates. Failing that...

b) the target must be "lased" or "painted" by troops on the ground, and the weather must be clear (smart bombs can't read the laser through bad weather).

c) In either case, the incoming missile must be rigged as a smart bomb

d) In either case, the incoming missile must be either a long-range type, or a cruise missile

If all four of these are successful, then your PCs can call in an wing of space fighters to utterly destroy that pesky bunker with the Naruni minigun in it (provided, of course, that air support is even available). A direct hit would destroy the target with few questions asked.

Orbital strikes are ruled out under the Lanator Accords, as would be nuclear weapons (unless its all out war between the TGE and the CCW).

Thoughts?

In regards to gernades, I've been thinking of applying the Point Blank damage rules to the gernades. But only apply it to Fragmentation ones, actually almost any fragmentation. If that robot that's 5 feet away from you explodes it'll send alot shrapnel your way and has the potential to do more damage then if it just burst into flames and engulfed a 20 foot area around it in fire.

Its very hard in the Palladium setting, cause everytime I make up a house rule I have to go through all the books and all the weapons to pick out what it applies to and what it doesn't apply to. I gave up on trying to make a semi-workable way to modify weapons.

send me an email: nightlord66@hotmail.com, Eskey.

I'll reply with some house rules that might make your day...

darkmax wrote:Hmm... Braden, the type of missile you mention that penetrates 20' concrete, does it so happen to be the same type they used for tank-busting?

I wouldn't think so... though it would be able to hurt a Doomsday Machine where nothing else much will. These (link) were designed back in the early 90's. But they are slated to be replaced by GPS guided units for the B-2.

Thing in Phase World is, you might not always control the skies enough to have your own GPS sats in orbit... so they probably have some kind of GPS/laser guided hybrid that can operate under both conditions.

BTW: the US has stopped asking for funding of this thing: NUKE 'EM! under pressure from "concerned scientists". In Phase World, this type of device would violate the Lanator Accords. Watch the video!

Some of my house rules, including a number of explosive rules you might find interesting can be found here

Any transmitter of known co-ordinates can be used for navigation.

GPS is an advanced, dedicated system, but beacon based navigation is one of the oldest techniques.

Ideally you want at least 2 beacons to calculate our position from and a sort of time signal so you can more exactly locate your fix, but just 1 beacon, provided you know it's location is enough.

In WW2 the pilots crossing the Atlantic would actually navigate using the Irish music radio stations.

UPDATE:

I am adding in rules for portable force field generators. They are handy for screening positions, and confusing the enemy, as well as for protection.

Two munitions available for air strikes in a city, as found in my latest paper. These ridculous things exist in real life!
_________________________________________________

Typical “Bunker Buster” Missile: These are heavy, 5000 pound (2,273 kg) missiles that can hold up to 600 pounds (285 kg) of explosive material. Their exact specifications vary from species to species, but on average they can penetrate up to 20 feet (6 m) of mega-damage material before detonating.
Guidance System: A hybrid GPS/pulse laser array. Effectively a smart bomb with +5 to strike.
Speed: Typically Mach 3.
Mega-Damage: Varies. 6D6x10 to a radius of 50 feet (15.2 m) for non-nuclear missiles. Anti-matter cruise missiles inflict 4D6x100 MD to a 150 foot (45 m) blast radius (but are borderline WMDs).
Range: 500 to 1000 miles (800 to 1600 km).

Typical Heavy Cluster Bomb: This 2,000 pound device may replace a cruise missile on any space fighter rigged to carry such big munitions. Each cluster bomb is filled with 1,800 tiny bomblets that weigh one pound. Each of the bomblets is filled with 600 razor-sharp fragments that explode out to an area of 40 feet (12 m). In effect, a cluster bomb of this type dispenses nearly 2000 fragmentation grenades. The total area covered by these tiny bomblets can be as wide as eight miles (12.8 km)! This weapon is designed to saturate a city with shrapnel, terrifying the populace and injuring, if not outright killing, anyone in the streets.

Cluster bombs do not fall under the Lanator Accords, because each bomblet is too small to be classified as a Weapon of Mass Destruction. Several Consortium diplomats want to add them to the list of banned weapons, but so far the Kreeghor have not given in. In fact, a single Flying Fang can be rigged to carry as many as four of these bombs, and they have often been used against the rebels of the Free Worlds Council.
Guidance System: None for the main bomb. Each of the bomblets can be set to explode on impact, to explode in mid-air (about 20 feet up), or to explode some time after they have fallen to the ground (up to 1D4 minutes).
Mega-Damage: Each bomblet does 5D6 MDC with a blast radius of 40 feet (12 m).
Range: About a half mile from the drop site.


Die, PCs! Die!

Hmmm, any MOABs or Thermobaric type weapons . . . high on collateral damage of course, but always an option.

Vehicles oriented to urban combat?

Jefffar wrote:Vehicles oriented to urban combat?

Such as...?

Currently the Israelis and Russians ahve a large number of highly modified tanks, APCs and Engineering vehicles designed to help solve the problems of urban combat.

In general these designs feature radically increased firepower, a greater diversity of weapons an a number of vision devices.

One I get a kick out of is some Israeli APCs have been converted into mobile armoured sniper platforms - allowign the sniper to move around under armour. Yeah his concealment factor goes down a bit, but he isn't worried about that machinegunner spotting him no more.

Well, I get the idea it's for use for infantry support missions anyway, so the are going to be a number of infantry in the area to begin with so there is already no element of surprise.

Well, I get the idea it's for use for infantry support missions anyway, so the are going to be a number of infantry in the area to begin with so there is already no element of surprise.

Scanners vs. Spoofers

When ground forces are required to fight within a city, the first thing they learn is that the threat of ambush is constant. Amidst all the buildings, streets, and sewers, one does not know one is about to walk into a firefight until the shooting has already begun. So, in order that their units aren’t just running blindly around a city, squads delegated to urban combat will have at least two soldiers in the platoon who carry a personal scanner.

Personal Scanning Equipment or PSE’s as they are usually called, are a standard technology in the Three Galaxies, both for the military and civilians. They are small, hand-held devices that can perform a myriad of useful functions. In the case of urban combat, the scanner’s mapping feature can keep track of the squad’s current position, as well as the path they have already taken. Both the motion and radiation detectors can be key to city fighting as well. However, most military units will add a bio-unit onto the device, allowing them to detect all living creatures within a 500’ radius; this is where the detection of ambushes comes in.

All living creatures give off a unique “bio-signature”, and this can be read by a scanner even if the person is in fully environmental armor. Thus, a platoon that carries a PSE can detect a group of enemy soldiers hiding in building, or lying in wait behind a closed door.

Furthermore, a scanner can intercept and measure energy transmissions, such as those produced by vehicles with a nuclear or anti-matter power supply. Even if a tank or robot is just sitting idle, or hidden away inside a large enough building, its power plant is still giving off telltales such as heat exhaust, and neutron seepage (which is a low-level and harmless by-product of cold fusion). Scanners can also detect any active force field, since it radiates such great energy outwards from the point of its generation.

If characters are hiding in a concealed position, but are picked up by an enemy’s scanners, they have been spotted, and no longer get a +4 to their initiative.

Avoiding Detection

As systems of detection grow ever more accurate, so to do the methods used to render them useless. No soldier wants to have his carefully concealed position given away just because the enemy has a machine that can detect him through walls. The science of deceiving scanners is called “spoofing”, and many technologies have been developed to help soldiers attain some amount of invisibility.

There are currently three types of personal combat armor that have been specifically built to foil detection. These are the CAF Battle Armor, Naruni C-20 Camouflage armor, and the new line of Naruni Thermo-Kinetic armors (see Naruni Wave 2). Each of these suits is constructed with layers of heat dampeners and silicon refractors that, to one degree or another, interfere with the beams of scanning equipment.

Best of the best is the battle armor of the Consortium Armed Forces. Not only does its laser communications package ensure that person-to-person transmissions cannot be intercepted, but it completely negates all thermographic and bio-sign readings. Soldiers in CAF armor will not show up on a personal scanner unless they trip the PSE’s motion tracker. The armor is fairly well suited for combat within a city; it moves well and only gives the wearer a -10% to their Prowl ability.

The C-20 suit from Naruni Enterprises comes in at a close second for best all around urban combat armor. It’s built in scramblers mean that PSEs will only detect the wearer’s bio-signs 21% of the time. Even if they are picked up, the suit’s built-in reactive camouflage polymers will blend into the surrounding terrain, making visual identification very difficult. Although its bulk gives the wearer -5% to prowl, the cammo systems negate this – meaning that this a suit of 80 MDC armor with no prowl penalty!

Finally, there are the newest suits of armor in Naruni’s line of Thermo-Kinetics. The scramblers in these suits are not quite as good as those in the C-20. The wearer’s bio-signs will be spotted by scanners 25% of the time. However, this is offset by the fact that Thermo-K suits take half damage from most physical attacks. Some of the heavier versions have severe penalties to prowl, which means that, even though they are invisible to sensors, any soldier with a good set of ears (or bionic enhancements) will be able to hear them coming.

There is a fourth type of spoofer that can be built into a suit of personal combat armor. Simply called “sensor blockers”, they work to scramble both bio-sign and thermograph readings, but also actively work against Lidar (meaning they will not trip motion detectors). The chance of being spotted by any of these three systems when wearing such blockers is only 15%. Furthermore, they affect laser targeting from all sources (rifles, robots, tanks), and guided missiles are -2 to hit. The big setback is that the blockers can only be integrated into armor with 50 MDC or less. Still, since lighter armor usually means that the wearer can prowl around city ruins unimpeded (read: no penalty), this type of “scramble suit” has become popular with some of the more poorly funded militaries of the Three Galaxies.

Force fields can also be used in innovative ways when fighting in a city. The energy output of a force field increases in proportion to the size and strength of the field, so although the field itself can be easily detected by scanners and sensors, it is almost impossible to tell what is behind it. Generally a scanner operator will only be able to tell the approximate size of the force field – man-sized, vehicle-sized, and building-sized – and whether or not it is moving. However, PSEs cannot tell whether that man-sized force field is protecting a small child with a bag full of rocks, or an eight foot tall cyborg armed with a railgun. Likewise, a building protected by a portable shield generator will be easy to spot with any kind of sensor, but the enemy can have no idea how many men or vehicles might be inside it (force fields mask neutron leakage).
________________________________________________

...from my paper.

Interesting, but the balance problems while fighting might cause an issue.

So... force fields now block all other detection: ie, if you are behind a force field, all someone can see on their sensors is a force filed, with no idea what exactly is behind it.

With game balance in mind, should a force field also block out your IFF transponder? (so you can have one or the other, but not both?)

Well that depends, if the FF blocs all sensors, it should also bloc all communications. Which means if you have a FF up you are deaf, blind and mute.

Force fields let water and air through...

just wondering about the "force" in the field. Would it be like wearing a giant magnet that scrambles everything?

Incidently, in regards to Israeli AFVs and modifications for urban combat, here are a few other trends:

Firepower:

Israeli AFVs designed for urban combat often have at least 3 independtantly targeted machineguns - giving them the ability to deal with multiple threats form multiple directions at once. At least one of these guns is able to be operated from under armour protection for dealing with snipers and similar situations.

Israeli AFVs designed for urban combat often mount a light mortar as a secondary weapon. This mortar can often be fired from under armour protection. The mortar can be used for dspensing a variety of chemical rounds and explosive rounds on the far side of walls and buildings.

Protection:

Israeli AFVs designed for urban combat tend to have incredibly thick armour. The Merkava MBT is one of the most heavily protected tanks in the world. Their APCs are usually converted battle tanks with extra armour added on, a combination which results in 5 to 10 times the armour protection of APCs used by other nations.

Braden, GMPhD wrote:Force fields let water and air through...

just wondering about the "force" in the field. Would it be like wearing a giant magnet that scrambles everything?

I dont think force fields should block any kind of sensor. In addition the force field generator is supposed to be active at all times therefore it should be detectable as well. So from a threat assesment perspective you should be able to detect the total number of targets and the fact that they are covered by a force field. You could then call in an artillary strike from outside the city based on the readings from your sensor unit communicated via scrambled communication, coded or sent via laser technology to your armor supporting the mobile forces in the city

After a lot of thinking, I have reversed my stance on Force Fields...

they do not mask life signs, thermo-readings, neutron seepage from vehicles, or anything else. They can however, be easily tracked by a scanner due to their power output.

So, wearing a force filed makes you an easily found target, but the trade off is the extra protection it offers.

Braden, GMPhD wrote:After a lot of thinking, I have reversed my stance on Force Fields...

they do not mask life signs, thermo-readings, neutron seepage from vehicles, or anything else. They can however, be easily tracked by a scanner due to their power output.

So, wearing a force filed makes you an easily found target, but the trade off is the extra protection it offers.

Looking forward to our next urban combat scenario I like this decision and think it will enchance the flavor of the game as to avoid detection you will be hesitant to turn on your force field making you vulnerable to that first, and perhaps last, sniper shot.

I'm thinking they will will get a thorough run-down when the Golgan invade Noldek's World and have to send troops into all those underground cities...

Braden, GMPhD wrote:I'm thinking they will will get a thorough run-down when the Golgan invade Noldek's World and have to send troops into all those underground cities...

Yeay! Urban combat the way it was meant to be. I have to decide which character to play in the battles.

gadrin wrote:Braden do Ramjet Rounds in Phase World do more damage than Rifts counterparts ?

Why use chemical propellents in an era of contra-gravity?

Why to the T'zee use nanites? Why do the Kreeghor use energy pulse weaponry? Why do the Naruni focus on plasma weapons?

Each civilization will develop it's own weapons technology based on their own cultural biases and available technology. If a particular society has a logn history with ramjet rounds and can make ramjet round weapons comperable to gravity rail guns, they might feel no need to make the change.

Or, they might incorporate ramjet rounds and gravity rail guns into the same platform creating a wickedly powerful weapon.


Oh, for the silver rounds - i doubt with ramjet or gravity railgun impulse you would end up with a very effective round except for SN baddies. The silver is too soft to acheiv signifigant penetration against a solid objects. IIRC the silver railgun rounds in Vampire Kingdoms do half damage. Same for ramjet and gravity boosted rounds.