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Yeah, I wouldn't even buy the swimsuit issue if I wasn't an obsessive collector. I don't mind having featured NPCs in the Rifter, but the swimsuit issue is a bit much.

bathawk wrote:Am I alone on this?

Not at all. Much like some of the other posters have stated, I'd much rather the swimsuit issue be in addition to the regular 4 issue run. Taking up a quarter of the issues for a year with fantasy babes is not my idea of fun.

I think the swimsuit issue to be made into a calender. Because it makes about as much sense as a calender. As a rifter, it's a waist of a whole book.

IF: They want to keep the swimsuit issue, you have to do a few changes. First is to allow palladium fans (not freelancers) to do the writeup. While the freelancers are fans, they are already in good with palladium and RIFTer among other things should be about those who are trying to get into writing for palladium or want to just share ideas. Two is to not make them NPC's. Generally speaking, NPC's are fine but not so many of them. Instead I suggest what Taylor White did, and make them into monsters, playable RCC's/OCC's or perhaps stat out the new device the art is using (in the new rifter, stating out the new TW wingboard would have been better than the NPC chica). Otherwise one or two NPC's should be fine, but no more. NPC's are easy to make, and the pictures will probably be of most use rather than the stat writeups.

I got mine free from a friend, and after reading it, I looked at him, and told him I'm glad I didn't spend any money on it otherwise I would have felt ripped off.

dark brandon wrote:..Instead I suggest what Taylor White did, and make them into monsters, playable RCC's/OCC's or perhaps stat out the new device the art is using (in the new rifter, stating out the new TW wingboard would have been better than the NPC chica)....

..What new wingboard? it's a standard wingboard. These things don't come off an assembly line, TW's make them themselves; there's bound to be variation in design; the function is still the same....

.."Congratulations, Acme Techno-Wizard class of ought-nine. As you leave you can pick up your standard issue wingboard, aviator helmet and goggles, and your bomber jacket. Good fortune!"



-MIke <8]

MADMANMIKE wrote:

dark brandon wrote:..Instead I suggest what Taylor White did, and make them into monsters, playable RCC's/OCC's or perhaps stat out the new device the art is using (in the new rifter, stating out the new TW wingboard would have been better than the NPC chica)....

..What new wingboard? it's a standard wingboard. These things don't come off an assembly line, TW's make them themselves; there's bound to be variation in design; the function is still the same....

.."Congratulations, Acme Techno-Wizard class of ought-nine. As you leave you can pick up your standard issue wingboard, aviator helmet and goggles, and your bomber jacket. Good fortune!"



-MIke <8]

It could have been stated as a new TW item, wingboard, personal flyer...just anything it doesn't even have to be a wingboard. IIRC, most wingboards require ley lines to use. Well, now stat out one that doesn't use a ley line. Just anything other than an NPC.

dark brandon wrote:It could have been stated as a new TW item, wingboard, personal flyer...just anything it doesn't even have to be a wingboard. IIRC, most wingboards require ley lines to use. Well, now stat out one that doesn't use a ley line. Just anything other than an NPC.

"GEEZ!, Not another car with a steering wheel! Why can't they just put a video screen there? Anything but another steering wheel!"

..NPC's are integral to the creative process of GMing and running a game. Replacing them with more redundant equipment is just going to make the GM's job harder. Your campaign would be a complete wreck without NPC's; nothing more than a childish hack and slash masturbatory exercise.

-Mike

MADMANMIKE wrote:

dark brandon wrote:It could have been stated as a new TW item, wingboard, personal flyer...just anything it doesn't even have to be a wingboard. IIRC, most wingboards require ley lines to use. Well, now stat out one that doesn't use a ley line. Just anything other than an NPC.

"GEEZ!, Not another car with a steering wheel! Why can't they just put a video screen there? Anything but another steering wheel!"

..NPC's are integral to the creative process of GMing and running a game. Replacing them with more redundant equipment is just going to make the GM's job harder. Your campaign would be a complete wreck without NPC's; nothing more than a childish hack and slash masturbatory exercise.

-Mike

That's why...if you note...I said one or two NPC's are fine. And I suggest that they are written by fans, not freelancers (who, I have noted are fans but already have a place at palladium). At least make the rifter more than just a swimsuit issue.

Sorry, I just disagree with the idea of a swimsuit issue. I think it's a waste of a complete rifter. A rifter full of NPC's is just boring. I'd rather a rifter filled with new types of magics, equipment, location details, new cities, expansion on areas not yet described, new monsters, new races, Hook lines and sinkers, rifts art (beyond scantily clad girls). A rifter filled with nothing but scantily clad girls is boring. Make it a calander.

MADMANMIKE wrote:Your campaign would be a complete wreck without NPC's; nothing more than a childish hack and slash masturbatory exercise.

-Mike

BTW, I just caught the joke

Childish hack and slash masturbatory excerise vs. the a swimsuit issue full of scantily clad women that have their own more "mature" exercises...

I just wanted to say that although the idea behind the Rifter was, and is, to allow the Palladium fans both a platform for publication and a possible audition space for larger projects, to insinuate that the Freelancers should no longer be allowed to take up space within its pages is somewhat insulting.

By that logic, (that those of us with a certain level of employment at the company should stick to making books and leave the quarterly for the fans), all of the art and illustrations in every single issue of the Rifter should likewise be fan-created. Apollo, Mike, Nick, the other Mike, and all the others need not bother lending their lines to anyones' submitted words.

We're not taking over the thing to be sure. But no one should be under any kind of illusion that we've "made it" by any stretch. Despite the fact that some of us have published works, and others of us have books sitting in cue, there are times when we want to submit smaller works just like anyone else. Take my Wormwood articles as an example. What you see in those four pieces is a truncated "Wormwood 2" book which had the choice of either being a short serial in the Rifter, or never seeing the light of day at all. Likewise, should Phase World fans have to wait three years until my Free World Council piece appears in a Corkscrew Galaxy book, or would they rather not see it in a much sooner to be released Rifter?

In the particular situation of the swimsuit Rifters, we are are given an original piece of art and told to backstory it. Palladium can do this because we Freelancers have all signed a detailed Non-Disclosure Agreement that ensures those illustrations will remain the exclusive property of Palladium Books (and not be sold the WotC, or plastered across the internet). The average fans have no such agreement in place, and therefore couldn't be sent the artwork.

Braden Campbell wrote:I just wanted to say that although the idea behind the Rifter was, and is, to allow the Palladium fans both a platform for publication and a possible audition space for larger projects, to insinuate that the Freelancers should no longer be allowed to take up space within its pages is somewhat insulting.

Of course, i never said they should NEVER, just that a whole issue of it be only exclusive. I'm not trying to be insulting. But think of it like this. There are only 4 issues a year, and that's one whole issue random fans are not going to be allowed to submit something. It's not the same if a freelancer puts in some original material, and it gets accepted, it's saying that one issue is designed ONLY for freelancers (for the reason mentioned below).

In the particular situation of the swimsuit Rifters, we are are given an original piece of art and told to backstory it. Palladium can do this because we Freelancers have all signed a detailed Non-Disclosure Agreement that ensures those illustrations will remain the exclusive property of Palladium Books (and not be sold the WotC, or plastered across the internet). The average fans have no such agreement in place, and therefore couldn't be sent the artwork.

Which is another reason I think the swimsuit issue is a bad idea.

Ah, I see.

I took your initial post to mean that the Freelancers should, in essence, stop submitting to the Rifter at all because it was taking up room better resevered for the general fan base.

..I'm not a freelancer; I have no status at Palladium Books, at least no more than anyone else who submits something. I've got as many rejections as I have publications, and everything I've done is languishing in obscurity; Outmoded character sheets, the defunct RIFTS GM screens, and now a couple of images in a much maligned swimsuit issue.

..If you don't like Freelancers being in the Rifter, send in something better than what the Freelancers send in.

..BTW, I was wondering if anyone would catch that line, lol...

-Mike

MADMANMIKE wrote:..If you don't like Freelancers being in the Rifter, send in something better than what the Freelancers send in.

..BTW, I was wondering if anyone would catch that line, lol...

-Mike

I don't have a problem with freelancers being in the rifter. I don't think ANYONE does. ::looks around:: Nope...no one I can see.

I simply said one whole rifter should not be based on ONLY freelancers.

Ah, I see.

I took your initial post to mean that the Freelancers should, in essence, stop submitting to the Rifter at all because it was taking up room better resevered for the general fan base.

I could see what I said being taken that way, but only in the extream sense. I'm just glad we're clear on it now.

dark brandon wrote:I simply said one whole rifter should not be based on ONLY freelancers.

..Well, then your argument holds no water. I am not a freelancer, and my art was in the Swimsuit issue.

..Served!

-Mike <8]

MADMANMIKE wrote:

dark brandon wrote:I simply said one whole rifter should not be based on ONLY freelancers.

..Well, then your argument holds no water. I am not a freelancer, and my art was in the Swimsuit issue.

..Served!

-Mike <8]

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. In my OPINION, I don't like the swimsuit issue. I find it boring. I find it a waist of an entire issue and fairly useless in all regards. I Criticized it. But I also gave constructive criticism. It's not like I was saying "this sucks", I said "This sucks as a rifter, but would make for a better calender." I continue on, with my OPINION on how they can keep the issue, but would have to make some changes (some...not just the single aspect of "freelancer" which you "served", you seemed to miss the other constructive criticisms I gave, like simply removing NPC's)

You want "served"? Fine, have it. You served the constructive criticism. Good job there. Maybe next time I'll just say "It sucks" and leave it at that. I get less flack for it. Jesus christ, it's not like I was saying the art was bad or anything.

Seriously, this conversation should have never went beyond the first post, except with braden's comment that was simply a misunderstanding.

..You're absolutely right. The entire thread is one moronic complaint after another. It's akin to being mad about the weather, fruitless at best.

..People buy and like the Rifter Swimsuit issue. It sells. It adds to the endless tapestry that is the Megaverse. It's fun to work on and it's fun to use.

..You don't like NPC's? Go play Battletech or some video game. Stop harping on this, because it's not going to change anything.

..And on that note, I think I'll take my own advice and ignore any further posts by you. No hard feelings, it's just that life is too short to spend trying to enlighten the eternally negative.

< drinks what's left in the glass as he leaves >

-Mike <8]

MADMANMIKE wrote:..You're absolutely right. The entire thread is one moronic complaint after another. It's akin to being mad about the weather, fruitless at best.

..People buy and like the Rifter Swimsuit issue. It sells. It adds to the endless tapestry that is the Megaverse. It's fun to work on and it's fun to use.

..You don't like NPC's? Go play Battletech or some video game. Stop harping on this, because it's not going to change anything.

That's where you're wrong. If enough people complain, palladium will listen. It listens to it's fanbase.

..And on that note, I think I'll take my own advice and ignore any further posts by you. No hard feelings, it's just that life is too short to spend trying to enlighten the eternally negative.

< drinks what's left in the glass as he leaves >

-Mike <8]

Maybe if you were not so sensitive about the subject, you'd see that my comment wasn't negitive. I had problems, but I offered solutions. It's not like I'm alone here.

I gotta agree with them, Mike. I didn't read it as "Freelancers should be kept out of the Rifter", but "There shouldn't be a Rifter that is almost completely freelancer work, especially not when it is all similar in content."

Most freelancers work on articles that aren't really suitable for full books; too short, clearly optional rules, whatever. I certainly wouldn't support us not being able to get in again... but I can see the point about an all (or mostly)-freelancer issue being part of the standard line-up.

As for 6 issues a year, I'm not sure on that one, either; it comes down to workflow issues, and how much Wayne does aside from putting together Rifters, and how much a production cycle cut by a third would affect that (much less the Rifter itself).

Mark Hall wrote:I gotta agree with them, Mike. I didn't read it as "Freelancers should be kept out of the Rifter", but "There shouldn't be a Rifter that is almost completely freelancer work, especially not when it is all similar in content."

Most freelancers work on articles that aren't really suitable for full books; too short, clearly optional rules, whatever. I certainly wouldn't support us not being able to get in again... but I can see the point about an all (or mostly)-freelancer issue being part of the standard line-up.

Thank you, thank you, thank you for understanding ::kiss:: ::kiss:: ::Kiss::

A 1,000 blessings upon your house.

Mark Hall wrote:As for 6 issues a year, I'm not sure on that one, either; it comes down to workflow issues, and how much Wayne does aside from putting together Rifters, and how much a production cycle cut by a third would affect that (much less the Rifter itself).

Why couldn't he get a assistant or some lit undegrad as an intern from whatever the local college is out around there.

csbioborg wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:As for 6 issues a year, I'm not sure on that one, either; it comes down to workflow issues, and how much Wayne does aside from putting together Rifters, and how much a production cycle cut by a third would affect that (much less the Rifter itself).

Why couldn't he get a assistant or some lit undegrad as an intern from whatever the local college is out around there.

Most assistants want money. Hiring one costs money, which they might not be able to do right now.

Mark Hall wrote:

csbioborg wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:As for 6 issues a year, I'm not sure on that one, either; it comes down to workflow issues, and how much Wayne does aside from putting together Rifters, and how much a production cycle cut by a third would affect that (much less the Rifter itself).

Why couldn't he get a assistant or some lit undegrad as an intern from whatever the local college is out around there.

Most assistants want money. Hiring one costs money, which they might not be able to do right now.

I'm aware of that which is why I suggested a intern as a alterntive. I'm not familar with their part of the country but there has got to be a college they can get one that works for minimum wage or free. That happened all of the time when I was in college.

Mephisto wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:As for 6 issues a year, I'm not sure on that one, either; it comes down to workflow issues, and how much Wayne does aside from putting together Rifters, and how much a production cycle cut by a third would affect that (much less the Rifter itself).

Ummmm Mark I think you're swell and all but aren't you giving Wayne not enough credit? He has been doing this for ten years now I think an extra couple of issues a year wouldn't be too big of a strain on him...

I'm not giving or taking away credit; I don't know anything about the production cycle on the Rifter. It may take him a week to get it together, or it may take him all three months. He may have a bunch of extra time, or may spend a lot of non-Rifter time on other things for Palladium. It could be no strain, or it could be an unreasonable amount of extra work, depending on what his calendar is like.

On the four a year -

- They can barely keep up that schedule sometimes, it seems. they really don't have the staff or the production capacity to do an in-house monthly, given how many mainline products are still on hold...

On NPCs-
-NPCs are pretty much a tool for a DM, but they work better when they're also part of a pre-packaged adventure. Maybe, if ghod help you you feel the urge to do another swimsuit issue, dot he reverse. Writers come up with some scenarios that take place on beaches, islands, tropical-climate resort spaceships, etc, in different game worlds. Or some kind of humorous bikini-based mecha or artifact. Then hand these to the artists to work from.

Stories even, with titles like "How to Stuff a Coalition-Issue Bikini" "The Eldritch Horror of Party Beach" (ProTip: Blow Them Up With Sodium!) or "Dr. Frederick Alexander, and the Bikini Machine" (yep.. that's two Frankie Avalon references now...)

But on the other hand... http://www.progressiveruin.com/2008_08_10_archive.html#1833625715070614867
wanna be associated with these guys? (Admittedly, not sure how much chance there is of that. Never even seen a real gaming convention, no idea what the M/F ratio is.)

a little late to the conversation here, but thought I would throw this out there:

I know most of the freelancers pretty well, and while I can't speak for them, I am pretty sure they share my sentiment regarding the Rifter. We very heavily regulate our own submissions to ensure that there is room for new talent to be displayed. Any of us could write publishable material four or more times a year, for sure. Not saying that it would always get printed, but we could definitely put out more good material than could be printed. We make a conscious effort to avoid that.

Just a point of information. We really do try to look out for everybody.

Jason Richards wrote:a little late to the conversation here, but thought I would throw this out there:

I know most of the freelancers pretty well, and while I can't speak for them, I am pretty sure they share my sentiment regarding the Rifter. We very heavily regulate our own submissions to ensure that there is room for new talent to be displayed. Any of us could write publishable material four or more times a year, for sure. Not saying that it would always get printed, but we could definitely put out more good material than could be printed. We make a conscious effort to avoid that.

Just a point of information. We really do try to look out for everybody.

Indeed. This is one of the reasons why my only Rifter pieces to date have been assigned to me by Palladium (the Swimsuit issues) or included after-the-fact (the upcoming Monster Extravaganza).

I'm all for seeing what new talent has to offer.

I think that perhaps one swimsuit issue every two years is enough.

But really, guys. Jazz up the holiday choices. St. Patricks Day (More information on Rifts Ireland, anyone?), Christmas (There's a Rift's sheet for you. Santa Claws, the alien intelligence), 4th of July (More info on Republicans), Labor Day (Heh, this one could be funny in a lot of ways. More info on Hercules...he had 12, How Dee-Bees crossbreed, How people slack off in the PA world).

That might help a bit.

My $.02 on the subject.

~Go bi-monthly.
~Make the Swimsuit edtion a extra specialty issue outside the regular 6 issues.
~Keep the Halloween/Horror issue. BtS ,Dead Reign,RIFTS & the other games could use good regular content of this variety.
~Get rid of HotF.If you replace it ,do so w/ a comic series ala Lone Star thingy.

I was tempted to subscribe as I want to get back into RIFTS & Palladium Fantasy a while back. Yet when I saw the frequencing of the SSI I chose not to,as it often has nuthing to improve my game.If PB does the above or at least the last 3 items I'll most likely subscribe.Especially if Dead Reign & Robotech get ample support in it as I'll be supporting these game as well.

Yeah. Hammer of the Forge needs to go. I don't need that space devoted to fiction, and I am a freelance game designer who submits things for publication occasionally to various places. I want my gaming magazines filled with gaming material. That space could just as easily have been taken up by any number of A) Scheduled freelancer articles or B) Paid advertising space. Just make sure that whoever has the paid advertising space is already carrying your products (Paizo...hint, hint...)

I love Hammer of the Forge. I would miss it greatly. I'll admit some installments are not as solid as others, but as a whole, I think it's fantastic.

I can see people's point that the swimsuit issue does not contain as much usable info as most Rifters, but that's not true of the Halloween specials. Those are some of my favorite issues. They consistently have one or two stand out articles that are very useful.

Sgt_Leo_MacKenzie_CSA wrote:My $.02 on the subject.

~Go bi-monthly.

..Sure, Palladium can just run out and hire two more full time staffers to facilitate this change...

-Mike <8]

Mike SSN-723 wrote:Why not make the rifters be digital downloads? In each rifter as its sent out, include a piece of paper with a url link and a unique pin number that will allow you to go there and view the swimsuit issue. Only downside is that maybe of sharing of the url link or the photos being leaked onto the web but there are ways around that. Set it to where you can't save the photo short of taking a screen shot of it and log all the traffic. If you see a pin number originating from more than 1 or 2 ip's then shut it down. Just my 2 cents.

I agree to a point. I would want Rifter's that have been taken off the shelf to be made available in PDF or even yet highlight a article or two as a down loadable PDF for a month or two, then take it off to be put on the shelf for a later date.