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its a back door method to stacking which I am all for stacking just not redundant powers

Blight wrote:They break that rule in scrapers. A lot. I mean like 3 or 4 of the hero stack enhanced PS powers. So in our game if the writers get to do it so do the players. (By the way the writers have also stacked movment powers, The mutant Runaway with sonic speed twice. There is also a villain with APS fire and ice and uses both at the same time.) So quite a few rule don't really stick.

Just one of many reasons I don't use Skraypers in my games. But simply put, explain to your players those NPCs were done wrong, probably because the author wasn't familiar with that rule. Or say even though the writers do it, you're not allowing it in your game. If they don't like it they don't have to play in this campaign.

LostOne wrote:

Blight wrote:They break that rule in scrapers. A lot. I mean like 3 or 4 of the hero stack enhanced PS powers. So in our game if the writers get to do it so do the players. (By the way the writers have also stacked movment powers, The mutant Runaway with sonic speed twice. There is also a villain with APS fire and ice and uses both at the same time.) So quite a few rule don't really stick.

Just one of many reasons I don't use Skraypers in my games. But simply put, explain to your players those NPCs were done wrong, probably because the author wasn't familiar with that rule. Or say even though the writers do it, you're not allowing it in your game. If they don't like it they don't have to play in this campaign.

Yeah, Skraypers was just an excuse to shoe-horn the Heroes Unlimited material into the Rifts setting. If you're not intimately familar with both systems you're gonna have some serious problems, especially with game balance.
Its way too easy to make up PC's with stats in the hundreds and perhaps thousands of MDC if they were also a mega-damage race to begin with.

Blight wrote:

Dog_O_War wrote:

Mr. Deific NMI wrote:If I recall, "by the book" (not that it matters to us GM's), but I dont think you are suppose to combine EO PS, SH PS and SN PS.

Please give me a page-number for that; it would greatly aleaviate my aggrivation with these powers.

They break that rule in scrapers. A lot. I mean like 3 or 4 of the hero stack enhanced PS powers. So in our game if the writers get to do it so do the players. (By the way the writers have also stacked movment powers, The mutant Runaway with sonic speed twice. There is also a villain with APS fire and ice and uses both at the same time.) So quite a few rule don't really stick.

Truk from Skraypers (page 115) has Superhuman P.S. twice. But it's obviously an editing error as his P.S. is lower than Hammerjack's (page 100), 2 higher than Skullknocker (page 102) and 7 higher than Dragon Eye, all of whom only have Superhuman P.S. once. It's entirely possible that they rolled an 8 for Truk's P.S. and rolled all 1's for his Superhuman Strength, but HIGHLY doubtful. Skraypers isn't perfect by any means, but hey, when was the last time you wrote a book for Palladium? Also, Kelvin makes up for being APS: Fire & Ice at the same time by being on the most dysfunctional supervillain team of all time. Have fun with it! Break some rules as long as they work for you. If they don't, don't use them!

Retired Juicer wrote:I had one player try to pull:

(Major) Immortality
(Major) Invulnerability
(Major) Alter Physical Structure: Plasma

In my Rifts game, the GM made an entire RACE of aliens for whom those where the natural innate powers to all Males (The Females had immortality, invunerability, and the powers of a master psychic)

Trust me, there is plenty of room for making very interesting characters and interaction. It's not the powers, it's the player.

APS Metal Sonic Speed and growth? That's a figgan meteor

APS: Metal and Sonic Speed are already done as an official NPC in ... Century Station - NPC known as Speed Metal

Yeah but add "Shrink" to it and you truly do have "Bullet"

It's all int he creativity. A friend of mine was in a DCH game where one of the other players was playing a GL. Unfortunately, all the villains were on to him and wearing yellow.
This sucks!-proclaimed the player
Wanna trade?-My friend offered
So they did, and my friend used the ring to take monuments, statues buildings to beat the villains.

lakota wrote:for any character that aggravates you.one power and one power only is all you need Super telekinesis. no save as mcuh strength as you can put isp into it. and guess what now the bad guy can use the aggravating character to pummel his teammates with. and if any shoot at the villain just us the tk'd character to parry.

Darkness Control would take care of that pretty easially. Telekenisis requires sight to use.

lakota wrote:for any character that aggravates you.one power and one power only is all you need Super telekinesis. no save as mcuh strength as you can put isp into it. and guess what now the bad guy can use the aggravating character to pummel his teammates with. and if any shoot at the villain just us the tk'd character to parry.

Or negate super powers.

If you create darkness around yourself you can assault the line-of-sighters with impunity if they need a target

lakota wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

lakota wrote:for any character that aggravates you.one power and one power only is all you need Super telekinesis. no save as mcuh strength as you can put isp into it. and guess what now the bad guy can use the aggravating character to pummel his teammates with. and if any shoot at the villain just us the tk'd character to parry.

Darkness Control would take care of that pretty easially. Telekenisis requires sight to use.

true yet at the same time most combat depends on who gets the "drop" on their opponent.
if you get your tk of before you oppent activates the power you still have tehm for two minutes per level(super psi version) just bounce them off the ground repeatedly.

They can still activate the power while your bouncing them around.

Retired Juicer wrote:On the Aps: Metal, Sonic Speed, thing
Remember that I said Growth as well.

What amuses me isn't the metal man ripping around at 350mph. It's that he's (with most average possible stats with those powers) roughly 34 feet tall and running at 700 mph (cut in half while metal, doubled while a giant).

I'ma fight you.
Also, that can't happen as both APS and growth are an "alter body" power - which means they can't be activated in-tandem.
But I'ma still fight you if you threw that at us.

I certainly hope that isnt canon. That is simply stupid. I can see APS Fire and Water and the like, but even with some creativity, that is doable like turning it into APS: Napalm, or APS: Lava. But even just growth adn metal, there is no inherent conflict of body types. One makes you big the other makes you a LOT bigger

Leon Kennedy wrote:

KillWatch wrote:I certainly hope that isnt canon. That is simply stupid. I can see APS Fire and Water and the like, but even with some creativity, that is doable like turning it into APS: Napalm, or APS: Lava. But even just growth adn metal, there is no inherent conflict of body types. One makes you big the other makes you a LOT bigger

The problem, KillWatch, is that it IS canon. Page 74 of HU2 states that you cannot activate 2 powers that alter your physical structure at the same time. Black and white, and in boldface type. I don't like it, and we've house-ruled it that certain powers can be activated at the same time (like, why the freak is Bio-Armor included in that list?), but according to Palladium that's the way it is.

Then why do they have a Villain in VU that can indeed activate 2 APS powers at the same time? More PB inconsistencies or breaing of their own rules?

KillWatch wrote:I certainly hope that isnt canon. That is simply stupid. I can see APS Fire and Water and the like, but even with some creativity, that is doable like turning it into APS: Napalm, or APS: Lava. But even just growth adn metal, there is no inherent conflict of body types. One makes you big the other makes you a LOT bigger

It's in the rules, but the canon breaks the rules listed. For example there is an NPC named Kelvin that has both APS fire and APS ice and is capable of activating them at the same time (half his body is fire, the other is ice). I always thought it was a stupid rule too.

break? I think it gives license

In my opinion, there are actually several ways to deal with such beings. Many have been covered already, like Negate Super Abilities. Telekinesis, psionic powers and weapons would do full damage. Magic weapons would do full damage, and classic standbys like Carpet of Adhesion have proven to be potent and effective. But there's a couple ideas I've read up on and I'm surprised that I haven't seen mentioned yet. Physical Training characters can perform power punches and kicks that can do damage to otherwise invulnerable characters. A power strike to the throat, your high speed tank can't breathe momentarily. Impose the same penalties as breathing some kind of gas or choking on smoke. A power strike to the eyes, the character is blinded and suddenly feeling intense pain, something he's probably not used to. If you allow martial arts from Ninjas & SuperSpies, it lists how various abilities like Negative Chi stack up against invulnerable characters.

But another possibility seems to have been overlooked. Keeping with the martial arts theme, use the character's powers against them! If fighting a martial artist, have the opponent flip or throw them into things or people. Now the character has become a greater threat to property and health because he's being turned into a weapon. Also, a more intellectual character can rig traps. Think of Jigsaw for inspiration and a modern day example of a master of deathtraps!

For example: The mayor, chief of police, local bishop, etc. important person or people have been captured, and the trail leads to an old warehouse. The hostage(s) are restrained and surrounded by explosives. The floor has been rigged with landmines as well as items to trip up the hero, like marbles, ball bearings, or even the super-lube the Mythbusters used for the slippery banana peel myth. Sure, let the hero try running fullbore through that! Oh, it gets trickier! There are also accelerometers or radar guns rigged to explosives on the support columns. Anything above a 'normal' speed captured by the sensors detonates everything. And to top it all off, there are hidden cameras capturing, and transmitting everything the hero does. If they screw up, if they try to use muscle over their minds, if they prove to be nothing more than living weapons instead of humans that think things through, the public outcry will demand that these monsters be locked up because they're more of a menace than the villains they're fighting!

you know... ive seen allot of xmen comics that have night crawler take out the big muscle in the very beginning of the fight by teleporting him several miles away and up in the air then teleport back, it may not defeat the big guy but it sure take em out of the fight quickly.

Not to mention mr fantastic stretching around em till they can’t move

Ice man freezing them in solid ice etc etc…

Lots of examples in the comics of clever ways to get rid of the big one without actually fighting

Nightcrawler: Just allowed a villain to escape
Mr. Fantastic: Why doesn't soemoen just tear him up like an over stretched rubberband? OOh you're stretchy Hi meet my friends stabby and slicey
Iceman: The only method I like, except for the hypothermia. And I am of course assuming that he isn't covering their heads which would be a nastier yet quicker death than freezing

Now remember, the Xmen arent really your classic superheroes. thier not trying to bring the villian to justice as much as to just stop them from what they were doing, ruin thier fiendish plot, and escape with thier lives (or let wolverine gut em). so nightcrawler teleporting the big bad guy away isnt letting him go as much as it is getting him out of the way while the rest of the xmen do what they came to do. ive found that its actually quite rare for the xmen to take prisoners or bring anyone to justice unless its to thier own brig while they figure out what to do with who they've got.

Leon Kennedy wrote:EDIT: After reading a bit of VU, I realized that VU was printed before HU2. HU2 includes all of the super-powers that are in VU, and this is what triggered me to realize this. I am going to guess that Glaciator was created prior to making the decision about not using 2 APS powers at once. Unless someone has revised and can state if this rule was in revised as well?

Heroes Unlimited Revised does not have that rule in it. In fact the entire "Notes on Super Abilities in Combat" section is new to Heroes Unlimited Revised Second Edition. Glaciator from Villains Unlimited was an oversight that they forgot to remove from the book when they made Villains Unlimited for HU2. And it seems as though the consensus is that if you don't like the rule, House Rule it and do what you want. I personally think it's there to keep complete morons from doing things like making a completely overpowered, lopsided character that isn't fun for others to game with. But if you do it tactfully, there's not a problem with it. GMs just need to know what they're comfortable with and let their players know where the line is.

it is still a bs rule and really any power combo or any power really can be used to annoying proportions in the right/wrong hands. There are players I don't like giving spoons to.

Leon Kennedy wrote:

KillWatch wrote:it is still a bs rule and really any power combo or any power really can be used to annoying proportions in the right/wrong hands. There are players I don't like giving spoons to.

I need to game with your group. If spoons are dangerous in the hands of your players, then that's gotta be one hell of a good gaming session.

Hahaha I gotta agree there!

My personal house rule when making characters with super abilities is they must fit a concise theme, or an archtype or such.

Say you have someone join your group that is a munchkin(or better an a entire group of munchkins <3, since so few in some areas wish to play this game we must accept these players if we want more than 1 interested person!), make sure they have a concise theme for their character's power(barring totally random characters like experiments or unstable mutants), I.e. they wanna be a fire elemental user so they would be limited to however many powers they determine that fit the theme of "fire" (or ice/cold/electricity/water/air/etc) So they would be limited to flame/heat/fire/radiation themed powers like elemental control/energy control/expulsion/matter/alter physical structure(fire,magama, or the various metals, or liquid/acid(in the case of "burning liquid/acid" or such) and maybe some movement ability(energy(flame) wings, or flight wingless or speedster with a burning flame trail that ruins all his shoes). Its a good way to get a strong character attatchment, and they wouldn't likely use any weapons(baring some manifest weapon/enchanted weapon or such) that didnt fit the theme well, and certainly wouldn't use armor (man this platemail gets hot and burns everything it touches). A little bit harder when they decide to be a "Brick" or their favorite theme is superman esque or such(but that is very popular with new gamers especially so gotta be careful), in those cases slap some vulnerabilities or insanities on their character, even if they arn't weak to kryptonite they can be scared to death of it or think its harming them(and as we know the body can inflict harm on itself just by THINKING something is harmful to them).

I.e. Flame Theme munchkiner: x2 damage from cold or water or air control based powers, or can otherwise be snuffed out particularly easy(no bonuses or even no bonus + a penalty) and even throwing normal water on them harms them for signifcant damage(a bucket of water thrown on them while using their powers inflicts several D6 or D8 or even D6x10) so they have to play the character carefully and make smart choices against villians aware of their vulnerability
I.e. Brick munchkiner: Insanities or phobias work best, nothing like seeing them cowering in fear or wetting themselves on a failed roll and taking -50% penalties for awhile upon seeing like...a spider....and then you throw the spider control villain at them...muahahaha. Other options are a common psychological vulnerability: THAT WOOD IS DANGEROUS LOOK OUT! ARGHHH!!! (takes massive damage from a kid using a bamboo sword.) I've found most brick types end up loving the fun crazy silly vulnerabilities bring to the table and they gain a whole new outlook, and rapidly become some of the more fun players I've G.M.ed for, Usually coming up with very creative and strategic plans in those situations (and being all bricky other times...which is great when the party creatively use him as the "meat shield" hahah).

If all your players are bricks...I dunno what to do, I'd ask them to reconsider their choices. But if thats the lot you have to draw from(totally statistically possible these days -_-) then you just have to tailor your game to fit your player characters anyway(which you SHOULD be doing anyway, a good GM weaves the story with the Players imput, rather than some rigid design, this again is why "Themes" and "Archtypes" are so important as they are flexible and allow a lot of interaction, and spontaneous recrafting of the story you have in mind.)

MOST of the problem with aggravating characters is the Game Master's own fault. You are letting them aggravate you. The villain doesn't have to target the brick(why would the villain/hero target the most durable character anyway?), there are much more vulnerable characters, and the aggravating speedster might need to dive in and take hits to protect his friend/ally/innocent bystander! This is also a great way to play up characters with obsene combat scores...when they do actually miss(or more importantly their target dodges..) it is an epic disater... Say the Villain dodges...so the hero goes careening past them and smashes into an innocent or bystander or causes major collateral damage they will have to pay for. I have certainly played with a player or two that nearly always rolls nat 20s though so... but on that rare one time they roll a 1 it should be a collasal epic miss, hit an ally, or deflect and blow up a crowd of innocents causing profound insanity or mental trauma on the hero (though admittedly less successful usage of that happens in rifts, since not many care about bystanders there, but there should still be "consequences").
Another thing too to rember is a dodgey hero can't dodge attacks he doesn't know are coming so the villian having a "sniper minion team" around the base or staging area is a great way to put the player using the brick/speeders/auto dodger on edge and very vulnerable, and more importantly put back in team work...suddenly the other players have to protect the "meat shield" and fantastic strategies start to appear! Or everyone dies, that has happened a few times.. But makes for great drama and story either way.


My personal most aggravating PC that has come up is the mind manipulator/mass control others types, which has happened a few times with psychics, mages, and once with a super. Bending others to your will seems more villainous than it is but they really played it up well, sadly it took me awhile to figure out how to counter it effectively, they ended up doing far to much of the work in fights and even interrogation and sleuthing arcs. Smart characters in Smart Players hands with even just a small handful of manipulative abilities is stunningly game breaking, so in reality its how the GM handles this smart witty character/player who really knows what they are doing that determins the pace and power of your game.

I've had games with insane powerhouses....and i just start throwing things like darkstars and old ones or alien intelligences at them, which tend to fairly easily beat them to a pulp or rend their mind. Especially when they are non-copreal or immune to their attacks anyway, and suddenly the game changes and they realize despite all their power, they really need to play smart and use tactics or its the end suddenly, and the sense of drama just explodes as you see this fear on their faces...they leveled these characters over months and grew attached to them and now they are really in danger of permanently dying and their faces just sink.....then it turns to excitement as their bloodboils and they feel this overwhelming life or death situation they hadn't felt in previous fights, in addition they are facing this horror factor every dang round disabling them as well...and its like they are really feeling it. Its quite amazing, though i've seen one or two just give up and die, but the other players really take an impact from that too. It really makes for great story telling...But you have to build up to it(or deus ex machina often enough that the game starts feeling really tropey,which isn't a bad thing as there is a lot of fun to be had with..."as you pull Hecotchair's mask off from his limp body an overwhelming sense of dread fills you, the room darkens as you remove the mask, the source of his power...or so you thought.. The air, the very fabric of space tears nearby as the mask is removed, and the most horrifying indescribable creature peaks out, it speaks directly into your mind with rage, but only ideas you barely understand, you have killed its experiment(the villain was mystically empowered by...you guessed it an alien intelligence) and it is VERY angry with you....and a battle against something unfathomable begins....and running away is not an option.). So you can see how you can turn an aggravating character into an incredible experience for everyone.

for designing a character i find the robotics type to be the most aggravating to create. as a gm i don't have any issues with power house characters, nothing i repeat NOTHING is unbeatable. a party full of invulnerable heroes would still take damage from any magic powered hero. lets see an 80 foot tall giant,becomes a really large target to shoot at. i have only seen one hero type(in phaseworld actually) that is immune to psionics.(invincible guardsman) but these particular heroes role on their own charts and recieve 2 powers thats it 2. i don't think worrying about how fast you can kill your pc's is the right way to play a game. i mean lets take Su.......er a certain alien that grew up in kansas, lets call him CornMan. CornMan gets his big blue butt whooped on a lot,then for the sake of storyline he figures out a way to win the day. their are no bad characters or aggravating characters designed within the spectrum of "the rules", only douchetard GM's with little to no sense of fairplay or imagination.

One of the best GM's I ran with would give us fair warning every time we made characters, we could use any book legal powers we wanted; but with the caveats that A) HE got to choose our backstories if he didn't like what powers we chose, and B) he could and would make characters specifically designed to counter us, even if he had to bend to rules to do it.

We had one Experiment who had Invulnerability, SNPS, and the alter-limbs-into-weapons power (forgot what it was called). Our alleged tank was eventually nearly killed by a small group of villain working together; a Supersonic Flight and Multiple-Bodies individual with the Zanji Shinjinken-Ryu Ninja's and Superspies Martial arts skill, a low powered mage who could crank out short-lived but effective magic weapons, and a psychotic bomb/nerve-gas user. Apparently, they had been created at the same time as Tank before he suffered memory loss, and they had the whole "if your not with us, your against us" approach to traitors. While the bomber and mage kept the rest of the team distracted, the Multi-Speedster was trying to peel Tank apart like an onion. It then devolved into a running gag of Tank getting hammered into the ground, while the rest of the group had to save his bacon.

Another time, there was a guy with weight/gravity control powers and rocket fists, he made Tank weight-less, then hit him full on in a flying tackle, ended up knocking him from Las Angeles to somewhere around Texas. A character with altered teleportation powers (can move other people/objects from point A to Point B) simply kept moving civilians and teammates into the path of Tanks attacks. Tank was once doing some shopping in his 'off-duty' hours, and ended up having to stop a mass mind-controller who had taken over a horde of pregnant women. The characters can usually bring themselves to slug somebody under mind-control to save them, if that's the only way to do it, but beating on a mother-to-be? Whole different kettle of fish there. Tank did have one major weakness, his Invulnerability didn't cover alcohol, which was the only thing he could taste, and he slowly became a major-league alcoholic (to the point that he needed his morning bottle of tequila to wake up and function) with anger problems.

Our groups usually went with the motto of "Its okay if NPC's and villains break the rules, because we're the good guys". The rules are there to make sure that things are enjoyable for the players, and to prevent things from getting bogged down or ay too ridiculous. However, sometimes that exactly what you need to face, someone (or thing) that breaks the rules and shatters your preconceptions on how to handle things. We had a APS Liquid and Electricity guy once, we ended up trapping him in a spy-satellite in orbit, he'll be making landfall in about another 150 years. Its all how the group interactivity works, and whether people follow the guidelines and rules (whether those are Cannon or Home-Brewed).

SaintParanoia wrote:Twinks, boy I hate twinks. Now, I usually like to choose my superpowers to mesh well and try real hard to build a strong synergy between them for my character, but I think some people take things too far. For example, when I GM I usually give my players the 1 major and 3 minors options to work with. In my current game, I recieved this:

Invulnerability
Superhuman PS (With all the stat buffing physical skills, of course.)
Extraordinary Speed
Extraordinary Physical Prowess


Now, this is a pretty aggravating character to have around. Villain encounters should be a challenging affair (even if only a slight challenge, it should still be a challenge. If the players destroy every villain the meet, game doesnt feel very exciting.) so what do you do to challenge this monster? He hits WAY too hard (And with amazing strike bonuses) for most villains to deal with unless every major villain has an epic SDC pool that doesnt always make any sense. He takes hits like a champ, even the hits that COULD hurt him wont usually connect as his dodge and parry bonuses are very stout (And he has a pretty solid auto-dodge also.)

So everything the team fights has to either hit so hard and have so much SDC that teh rest of the group is almost pointless or they have to employ poisons or some kind of powerful snare to keep the big guy under control (Hard to snare a guy with a near 70 PS also.) he wins my aggravation award.

What builds just absolutely annoy you to see?

Your buddy there is rather easy to beat: No flight, no range, no energy, no senses, no environmental adaptations.
Any enemy that can go intangible or otherwise unaffected by physical attacks can pretty much ignore this guy. Bonus to those who can do so and still attack
Any enemy that can take to the air has nothing to worry about from this character
a Tractor Beam will negate this guy, as will an updraft or any other means of lifting him off the ground.
Gravity Manipulation is absolutely vicious against this guy, since he has to get close to do anything. Slow Motion Control also cuts down his bonuses rather nicely
An invisible enemy can have a field day with him.
Smoke, mist, sandstorm, and any other such environmental hazard is going to mess with him - he still needs to breathe, and he is still vulnerable to poisons/toxins/smoke effects (just at a reduced rate) - cut those bonuses down.
Invulnerability - you buddy up there doesn't have SNPS, and thus can't even hurt someone else with Invulnerability.
APS Liquid alone will defeat this guy: Immune to his attacks, can hurt him back, can threaten drowing/suffocation, and can carry on with whatever needs to be done despite the super-strong, invulnerable speedster.

In most games, the enemies of the PCs have something to do OTHER than fighting the PCs - it's the PCs who are usually interrupting an otherwise well-thought-out plan: You bad guys have their own objective, so if they can avoid/negate the PC, then they've "won" - it's up to the PCs to actually stop them.

I don't really have a problem with any build - each and every one can be countered WITHOUT having to break the rules or even resorting to absurd levels of twinkism. I do tend to build my villains higher than the PCs, but that is because A) they are usually the ones that are going to be outnumbered and B) they SHOULD challenge the PCs, and force them to work TOGETHER to be victorious.

And for reference, I am currently running a HU campaign with the following PCs:
Photon, communications intern and aspiring superhero [Mutant - continuous: Create Force Fields, Flying Force Disk, Create Force Constructs)
Horizon, Tech-Giant CEO looking to field-test his inventions [Analytical Genius with a suit of Power Armor]
Black Bart, reformed (?) criminal thug [Symbiote: APS: Bone, Nightstalking, Criminal Intuition and SHPS, Breathe without Air, Imp to Disease, Eyes in back]
Omega Girl, 50's military experiment that was recently thawed [Experiment: Invulnerability, SNPS, Flight: Wingless]
Shadow, Alien Merc [Alien (Arismal): Regen Ultima, Increased Durability, Lightning Reflexes, Shadow Stepping]
Red Hex, blind science teacher doing what's right [Empowered: Tractor Beam, Gravitational Plane, Radar, Heightened Sense of Smell, Heightened Sense of Awareness, Clock Manipulation, Spectrum Vision] RETIRED
Vigil, a paramedic blessed with a magical sword [Magic Weapon: Mega-Wings and SNPS, Healing Touch, Invisibility, Mystic Shield, Words of Truth]
Wyld, alien Combat-Athlete [Alien (Reptile, Vegetation): Lycanthropy, Feral, Heightened Sense of Smell, Animal Brother]
No One a.k.a. "Hyde", forgotten military experiment [Super-Soldier: Monstrous Form, Bookworm, Un-noteworthy with Cyber-Armor and Attempted Invulnerability]

Trust me, it's interesting trying to work in and challenge each character, but is definitely doable

SaintParanoia wrote:Twinks, boy I hate twinks. Now, I usually like to choose my superpowers to mesh well and try real hard to build a strong synergy between them for my character, but I think some people take things too far. For example, when I GM I usually give my players the 1 major and 3 minors options to work with. In my current game, I recieved this:

Invulnerability
Superhuman PS (With all the stat buffing physical skills, of course.)
Extraordinary Speed
Extraordinary Physical Prowess


Now, this is a pretty aggravating character to have around. Villain encounters should be a challenging affair (even if only a slight challenge, it should still be a challenge. If the players destroy every villain the meet, game doesnt feel very exciting.) so what do you do to challenge this monster? He hits WAY too hard (And with amazing strike bonuses) for most villains to deal with unless every major villain has an epic SDC pool that doesnt always make any sense. He takes hits like a champ, even the hits that COULD hurt him wont usually connect as his dodge and parry bonuses are very stout (And he has a pretty solid auto-dodge also.)

So everything the team fights has to either hit so hard and have so much SDC that teh rest of the group is almost pointless or they have to employ poisons or some kind of powerful snare to keep the big guy under control (Hard to snare a guy with a near 70 PS also.) he wins my aggravation award.

What builds just absolutely annoy you to see?

I don't find the above to be very frustrating in the current version of HU. There are so many powers that hamper those types of characters, let alone have your villain team have another tank to make it exciting or challenging. I have a player in my group who simply loves making the most frustrating characters. His latest was a "Ghost" that joined the team. Powers: Intangibility, Invisibility & Transferral Possession. It's not to say I as a GM can't deal with the power combo, its simply more of an annoyance to certain story arcs. Fortunately he grew bored after one mission with the characters inability to deal with certain situations.

The one I hate is the one that's specifically designed to disrupt the game and cause problems. I can deal with the occasional design that gets out of hand inadvertently, but when some jackalope decides to build a character specifically to take out other characters or NOT to fit into the campaign, I put my foot down.

Furthermore, I've had a few players that all they wanted to do was reproduce a character from an anime and couldn't understand why their explosion of iron-hard rose petals couldn't obliterate the bad guys in one blast. I've had enough of those show up that I've developed quite a dislike of a great deal of anime from association.

As for the situation described above, I had a player insist on playing a Space Glitterboy from Mutants in Space in my Three Galaxies campaign. As they slowly worked their way through a Gene-Tech's ship to rescue the son of a CEO who'd been captured for experimentation, he was tearing through the Monster X's like tissue paper. He blasted a clip of MDC damage into the interior SDC hulls of the space ship and accidentally took out the avionics array. (So much for stealing the ship like their plan called for.)
Then the Gene-Tech noticed him, and simply used Telemechanics Possession and he ended up sitting out the main fight while the other players rescued the kid and took down the Gene-Tech. (Ninja-bots can be brutal!) The new player got all the limelight for that fight, and he was stuck watching.

I've never GM'd a HU game, but I've played in several. The characters that seem to give GM's the most trouble are the ones that are hard to threaten directly. Two examples come to mind:

Chameleon + Teleport: He never stayed where the action was. While the other PCs were tied up with the bad guys, this guy sabotaging the bad guy's vehicles or teleporting hostages away or, occasionally, sniping at the bad guy that the party was having trouble with (he was designed as a sniper, but vary rarely actually shot anyone...once the hostages were secure, for example, there's no reason to kill the bad guys). It drove the GM batty to have to keep up with the combat and the things away from combat that this guy was involved in.

APS:Water and Energy Absorption: this guy wasn't very impressive at anything, but being immune to energy based attacks and physical based attacks and any sort of physical restraint short of sealing him into something air tight or freezing him made him very difficult for the GM to handle. As I recall, this character was actually banned.

--flatline

flatline wrote:I've never GM'd a HU game, but I've played in several. The characters that seem to give GM's the most trouble are the ones that are hard to threaten directly. Two examples come to mind:

Chameleon + Teleport: He never stayed where the action was. While the other PCs were tied up with the bad guys, this guy sabotaging the bad guy's vehicles or teleporting hostages away or, occasionally, sniping at the bad guy that the party was having trouble with (he was designed as a sniper, but vary rarely actually shot anyone...once the hostages were secure, for example, there's no reason to kill the bad guys). It drove the GM batty to have to keep up with the combat and the things away from combat that this guy was involved in.

APS:Water and Energy Absorption: this guy wasn't very impressive at anything, but being immune to energy based attacks and physical based attacks and any sort of physical restraint short of sealing him into something air tight or freezing him made him very difficult for the GM to handle. As I recall, this character was actually banned.

--flatline

Actually, the first is the kind of player/character I WANT in my game. He's thinking outside of the box, being the hero, and protecting the innocents. These character designs are only a problem for a GM if he's approaching gaming as a "Me vs. Them" scenario which is something a GM should never do. He's always going to win, and everyone is going to be frustrated. Good GMs don't measure their success by the PC body count. They measure it by if the players are having fun.
There's a great indie movie about gamers called The Gamers 2: The Dorkness Rising about a GM who was trying to approach gaming in exactly that way, and he wasn't able to get his players to finish his module until he realized that it was an interaction, not a contest. That, and a girl joined the group and showed the other players how to munchkin her character to be highly effective.

Max™ wrote:Pu2 Immortal, Godling Mega Hero.

Name: Oneshot, Tankslayer, Might, Justice, Groundbreaker, Stonefist, among others.
Alignment: Scrupulous
Exp Level: 3
Hp: 178 SDC: 380 Nat A.R. 14
I.Q. 15
M.E. 13
M.A. 20
P.S. 100 (yes, seriously)
P.P. 20
P.E. 18
P.B. 21
Spd. 33

Ht. 5'9"
Wt. 160 lbs
Age 131 (years of awareness, he's actually far older, but has only been "awake" for a century or so)
Sex Male

Abilities/Powers/Megas/Vulnerabilities:
Pu2 Godling
Immortal (Mega-power)
Tremendous P.S. (+20)

3 Major 1 Minor
Supernatural P.S. (rolled 6 as I recall for the 2d6, so +36)
Zombie Flesh (+10 on the Str roll)
Super Power Punch
Indestructible Bones

Vulnerable to Psionics and the Opposite Sex.

Combat:
APM 8
Strike 7
Parry 10
Dodge 10
Initiative 6 (0 around attractive women)
Roll 8
Pull 11

Saving Throws:
Poison 2
Magic 5
Possession 6
Horror Factor 7
Psionics -4 (Double Damage and Duration)
Coma +36%

Education (Ancient, Intuitive Martial Artist)
HTH Martial Arts
W.P. Sword (Bokken)
W.P. Knife
W.P. Blunt
Gymnastics
Acrobatics
Boxing
Running
Wilderness Survival 55%
Land Navigation 58%
Carpentry 50%
Skin/Prepare Hides 55%
Track Animals 45%
Basic Math 60%
Sing 50%
Dance 45%
Sewing 60%
Seduction 32%
Prowl 50%
Streetwise 32%
Holistic Medicine 35%
General Repair 50%

Equipment: Not much, a pair of repeatedly patched dark suede slacks, suede jacket (self made), and his Minor Magic Weapon, a 100 lb, Indestructible Suburito (large wooden training bokken) for fun and practice (+5D6 or 30 Dmg for simplicity).

Just a guy who woke up one day, found he was good with his hands, and learns as time passes that he has seemingly limitless strength. Lives in the wilderness, unaware that he was once the earthly manifestation of might itself.

As he levels, he's actually just remembering more and more who he was, from time to time he has reached the pinnacle and retired to slumber, forgetting it all over again, or less often, been defeated and while recuperating, forgot himself.

He's more or less a good guy, something of a friendly rival for the top dogs. He'd only be aggressively going for the rogues who had killed innocents carelessly or purposefully, gotten too caught up in their own might, or abused it. Mostly he'd just be testing people, reminding the strongest that somewhere out there, if you swim long enough, you will find a bigger fish.

He would be rather slow to fight, preferring to soak up damage and try to talk things out, and would be loathe to use his SPP on anything but the toughest of foes, or machines... which he has no love for.


So yeah, the super brick character was rolling around in my head, and after a discussion about world war hulk (just read the graphic) I had an interesting idea to see how strong I could make an ordinary looking guy.

The character rolled around in my head for a bit, and when I got home, I rolled up the Mountainslayer.

Actual random dice rolls used where they were options, except in choosing powers/category, stats for example were 13 9 14 24 10 10 18 11.

Nothing extra amazing, but from that simple set of numbers came one of the most absurd, yet strangely cool, characters I've ever made by the book.

24 Roll + 1d6+6 (10) Godling + 20 Tremendous +36 +2d6 (10) Zombie Flesh for a ridiculous 100 Supernatural P.S.

Using Kittenstomps SN P.S. chart, and a Super Power Punch, that would be 1000~2600 Dmg on a successful S.P.P. (4D6x80 + 728), and 2d4x10 +6 restrained, 4d6x10+91 normal, 1d4x100 +91 power punch.


Ya know, the more I toy with the idea, the more I like him.

Wanna use him now. T.T

You know...I like this guy! Mind if I snag him as the Manifestation of Might in my world?

-STS

Dog_O_War wrote:Also, that can't happen as both APS and growth are an "alter body" power - which means they can't be activated in-tandem.
But I'ma still fight you if you threw that at us.

Growth is not an APS. Growth is a separate power. See the FAQ.

SaintParanoia
The first time I saw a player end up with APS: Fire and EE: Ice, Bend Light and and EX PP I knew random was bad. I like seeing character's whose powers kinda flow together. Even if your fine with completely incompatible powers coming together, you can very easily end up with a character whose so situationally useful that hes usually just dead weight unless the GM tailors things around him alot.

Hmm, so he;s a thermokinetic who can bend light and hit stuff? Works together to me(steam/ water/ice distorts light so jsut claim he's doing that when he uses his bend light powers, etc...).
The fact that he can hit well(EX PP) fits with his ranged powers(APSFIRE//EE:ice)

LostOne

It is far more likely to get powers that don't really go together if you roll randomly. Like Earth Empowerment + any Flight power. Yippee...

So no Elemental Furies for you?

AlanGunhouse

I remember being told about a character with APS: Bone and Unbreakable Bones, sounds like a pretty rough combo to beat, depending on how the GM rules.

Nope. APS:Bone already states your bones are unbreakable. Unfortunately, this means they can still take damage. They just don't "break"...

Sir_Spirit wrote:

LostOne

It is far more likely to get powers that don't really go together if you roll randomly. Like Earth Empowerment + any Flight power. Yippee...

So no Elemental Furies for you?

Those two powers don't work together unless the GM modifies them. Earth Empowerment gives you power when touching the Earth. Flight, by it's very nature, separates you from the Earth.

LostOne wrote:

Sir_Spirit wrote:

LostOne

It is far more likely to get powers that don't really go together if you roll randomly. Like Earth Empowerment + any Flight power. Yippee...

So no Elemental Furies for you?

Those two powers don't work together unless the GM modifies them. Earth Empowerment gives you power when touching the Earth. Flight, by it's very nature, separates you from the Earth.

No particular reason the powers have to work together, same with the earlier mentioned APS: Fire + APS: Ice character (of which the rule regarding such physical change powers is you generally can't use two at the same time anyway, and definitely can't use competing physical transformation powers at the same time). It simply means the character has powers that are only available in certain situations rather than all the time.

There is more than just Kelvin as examples of NPCs ignoring the APS Rule.
Mire (APS: stone/water)
Coppertop (APS: Fire/Metal)
Galciator (APS: Ice/Growth)

As a gm I have found MY aggravating player character type. IQ over 24 on any PC. That and I am not very fond of psychics, yea super powers rock but most of the time what you got is ALL you get. Those dagnabmuffluffNstuff Psychics get even worse and most of them GAIN even more hard to save against bumBluck psionics!
No I will deal with Bricks and Gunfighters all day. Nor thay hard to throw more fodder on a boduwall or add in STACKING so it takes longer to slow down that Players EPIC VICTORY STRIKE !! huzzah. Thats easy just number crunchin.
Now back to those flabnabbin Psionicists....