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Kagashi wrote:There is your canon source.

No offense, while official, the rpg books are not canon.

Actually militaries train on how to properly destroy their equipment in order to prevent it's capture or salvage by the enemy.

During WWII the Allies and the Axis used large numbers of each other's equipment in North Africa.

In it's various wars the Israelis captured enough Arab T-55s to field entire battalions of them.

jaymz wrote:

Kagashi wrote:There is your canon source.

No offense, while official, the rpg books are not canon.

They are when you are 1) talking about said RPG and 2) posting on the company's website that wrote said RPG.

If you want to debate what is and what isn't Robotech canon, go to www.robotech.com and post on those boards. Saying the RPG isnt canon, on the website owned and operated by the authors of the book in which the very thread it titled "Robotech® New Generation™ Sourcebook" is mind boggling. Anyway, everything produced from Palladium in the RPG has to get the look over from Tommy Yune before it sees print. If he is the manager of this current continuity, that's pretty close to canon. We are talking about the game here...therefore, the other RPG books are canon.

Actually it seemed to me the discussion is more general discussion as to if the units should have them or not not specific to the rpg so please no need to be snarky when someone comments if you don't like the comment.

No offense intended, but you might want to review the definition of "snarky", as I believe that this is the second time I've seen you misuse it. There's nothing snarky in Kagashi's post: just a straightforward observation of facts — possibly incorrect and/or irrelevant facts, but facts nonetheless.

That said, maybe some clarification is in order: is the discussion in question supposed to be in the context of the RPG (in which case Kagashi's observations have merit), or has it expanded to be a general discussion about the show (in which case you're right)? I suspect the latter.

dataweaver wrote:No offense intended, but you might want to review the definition of "snarky", as I believe that this is the second time I've seen you misuse it. There's nothing snarky in Kagashi's post: just a straightforward observation of facts — possibly incorrect and/or irrelevant facts, but facts nonetheless.

That said, maybe some clarification is in order: is the discussion in question supposed to be in the context of the RPG (in which case Kagashi's observations have merit), or has it expanded to be a general discussion about the show (in which case you're right)? I suspect the latter.

Would you prefer I had said pi$$y?

My apologies Jefffar.

Militaries do encompass the idea of destroying things for the purpose of denying them to the enemy. As to who they're denying with self-destruct, it's obviously humanity's worst enemy: humanity, and clearly the UEG's forces had plenty of enemies in that group.

As to actual "self-destruct devices"...Robotech is not the real world, it's fiction: the real world only applies so far. Self-destruct devices, however, are a common and long-accepted trope in fiction, especially science-fiction. To wit: Self-Destruct Mechanism

Hi question does the ASC handled energy base weapon are detect by the invid?

Hi question does the BIOROID TERMINATOR COMBAT ARMOR TPR-L MK .III POWERED LIGHT BODY ARMOUR is detected by the invid pordoculture sensory?

Gryphon wrote:My issue us that self destruct device is that the military mindset doesn't typically encompass such a concept.

Actually, they DO kind of make sense for the VF-1's, less so for later Veritechs. Certain high performance reconnaissance aircraft (the U2 immediately comes to mind) had self destruct systems built in to them in an attempt to prevent them falling into enemy hands. The VF-1's being the UEG's new super weapon, and far more likely to survive a crash then a U2, the powers that be might have had a system put in to keep an intact unit from falling into Anti-Unificationist hands.

I don't know what the justification would be on later VF's.

We don't know for sure if Max actually used a self destruct device or not, as we never see how the explosion was triggered. The novels did indicate that the crew played with a few failsafes rather than pulling the pin on a self destruct.

Jefffar wrote:We don't know for sure if Max actually used a self destruct device or not, as we never see how the explosion was triggered. The novels did indicate that the crew played with a few failsafes rather than pulling the pin on a self destruct.

Don't they say in the show that the explosion of his plane was the result of damage, not an auto-destruct?
(I know it's a damage-related thing in the original)

Thy never say in Robotech I believe. Just some poor zentraedi opens the elevator and - blamo!

He was having issues with his veritech overloading. I got the impression that it as going to blow and he couldn't stop it. That's why they all abandoned ship.

Gryphon wrote:Accepted, even I received an M14 thermite hand grenade....

Cost: 30 credits.

Gryphon wrote:You know what? I was all set to fire a shot back across yer bow there on this one, but you do have a very good point about the science fiction trope aspect. *shrugs* I still won't use them in my game, because I think it's a bad trope, but it's fictional viability is acceptable to some , and enough have argued for it that it's clear I am in the minority here. Ah well, it is a game after all.

Well, I'm on your side WRT realism, at least; calling it a "common trope" just seems like a non sequitur to me.

Gryphon wrote:Accepted, even I received an M14 thermite hand grenade to toss in my HUMVEE shelter carrier with over a mil and a half worth of high tech communications gear in case my position was overrun. Thus, I was trained to properly do this, and no "self destruct" was needed.

We were given thermite grenades to destroy the engines of our AAV's. The .50 cal and M-19 we had to take with us...which kinda sucks when you have only two people to haul a MK-19, a .50 cal, two .50 cal barrels, 48rds of Mk-19 ammo, 200 rds of .50 cal ammo, plus our M-16's.

Cyclones no - due to the body armor. Also most TNG era mecha such as alphas and cyclones were meant for resistence fighters. The easier you make it for them to use and fix, the more fighters you h e on the ground.

Gryphon wrote:Having to hump all of that additional crap would really suck.

Oh it did. Our platoon commander once (we pissed him off) made us do a 5 mile hump with each individual crew carrying it's AAV's weapons, one ammo can for each gun full of sand, our personal weapons (M-16's) and a field pack with 20 pounds of ballast. The A-hole didn't even help the crew of his vehicle, but made all the section leaders and platoon Sgt join their assigned vehicles.

Gryphon wrote:Did they actually intend for you to try and take all of that stuff, or just the critical stuff.

In addition to destroying the engine also had to either destroy the radios or take them with us.

Gryphon wrote:..what ever that would end up being?

I believe the general idea is that we'd become a heavy machine gun crew that would join the infantry squad we were supposed to drive around/support. Although with a T/O of three crewmen we'd be heavy by one gun, but I guess the grunts would help us haul our machine guns, and ammo etc.

Tiree wrote:Also most TNG era mecha such as alphas and cyclones were meant for resistence fighters. The easier you make it for them to use and fix, the more fighters you had one the ground.

I'd agree with the cyclone being made for easy maintenance (either by their operators or resistence fighters), but I'm going to have to disagree regarding the Alpha since it first fielded in the late 2010's/early 2020's and the I doubt the H, I and Z models were specifically designed for easy maintenance.

I'd agree with the cyclone being made for easy maintenance (either by their operators or resistence fighters), but I'm going to have to disagree regarding the Alpha since it first fielded in the late 2010's/early 2020's and the I doubt the H, I and Z models were specifically designed for easy maintenance.

What Lunk is able to do taking care of 4 Veritechs without a garage... makes me think the Alpha was easy to repair... it was designed in the 10's... to preform on a planet what have been blown to crap and had a very limited population and few civilized areas...
Even the 15th is seen doing maintenance on their units... well Louie is....

This is probably pointless, but I feel I have to respond to some information regarding me posted nearly a year ago on page 5 of this thread...

Seto Kaiba wrote:Roger Harkavy first brought the existence of the art book proposal and its eventual rejection by Harmony Gold to my attention, and I sought confirmation from a Harmony Gold employee who confirmed that the project was thrown out by Tommy due to office politics and AoTSC, yes.

I can't confirm whether the art book proposal you're talking about actually happened or not, because despite how your quote reads above, I wasn't involved, and all I had to rely on regarding the existence of the proposal was the word of Tom Bateman. Tom, as I found out later, had lied to me about what he was doing with the Imai artwork, which led me to doubt everything else he ever told me. Regardless, if this art book proposal actually happened, I was not a participant.

After Tom was dismissed from Harmony Gold, Tommy Yune was very supportive in trying to find a publisher for the artwork and possibly making it part of a follow up to Art of Shadow Chronicles. He got me in touch with people from Stonebridge and Udon but nothing ever came of it. If Tommy had some sort of problem with the Imai material getting published, I don't understand why he would get me in touch with publishers.

Next up...

Tiree wrote:A few years back I was talking with Jason Marker over getting the AFC-R-02 Ground Attack Legioss into the book. Apparently a piece of the artwork for that had made it into a blog from a Magazine. It was an article written by Mr. Harkavy. Jason had informed me that years before PB had let go of the license someone had tried to sell PB and HG the information separately, but neither wanted to pay how much he was asking for.

Now I am pretty sure Jason did purchase a copy of the Magazine. So I am not sure if Mr. Harkavy had a big book that he was trying to shill or not. But he has been shilling this information since 2007, probably from 2005 and well before.

Not sure why the word "shill" is being used here, but this is what happened on my end:

Around mid-2007, Chris Meadows got me in touch with Kevin Siembieda. We had a pleasant phone conversation about the RPG industry, Robotech, etc., because I was always a fan of Palladium's Robotech books. We talked about the artwork possibly being used in a Palladium product, but at the time, my friend in Japan who lent me the artwork was concerned about letting an American entity use it because of potential rights issues. I explained this to Kevin and told him it could be a long time until my friend was satisfied with the status of American Robotech licensees. That was pretty much it.

Jason Marker contacted me around March of 2009 to inquire about the artwork, asking if it would be available for a Palladium publication. By this time I had satisfied my friend in Japan regarding the rights issues, so I told Jason yes, the artwork was available and in a ready-to-use form. All I asked for was $1000 to cover the costs I'd incurred scanning the artwork (I had to use a service to do this because of the oversized pages) and shipping a heavy box of documents back and forth from Japan.

The discussion about the artwork went two or three rounds, but immediately after I mentioned the money, all communication with Jason abruptly ceased. I emailed him a week after that, then perhaps a month after that, no response. I forwarded the email to Kevin, asking him if something was up with Jason and if Palladium was moving forward on new Robotech books. No response.

And now you know... the rest of the story. You could have just asked, my email address is on page 4 of the Imai Files PDF...

I suspect the communication cut off probably came around the time Mr. Marker and Palladium parted ways.

still it an awesome art work in the blog from a Magazine.

Jefffar wrote:I suspect the communication cut off probably came around the time Mr. Marker and Palladium parted ways.

According to Jason Marker's blog, he was laid off in September 2009, months after I stopped trying to re-establish communication with Palladium:

http://www.motorcitygamewerks.net/2010/ ... -gtfo.html

Roger wrote:

Jefffar wrote:I suspect the communication cut off probably came around the time Mr. Marker and Palladium parted ways.

According to Jason Marker's blog, he was laid off in September 2009, months after I stopped trying to re-establish communication with Palladium:

http://www.motorcitygamewerks.net/2010/ ... -gtfo.html

The thousand dollar price tag probably scared them off. I do not know for sure but I don't think they even pay that much to a freelancer writing and entire book for them. That being said, not getting back to you to at least tell you they weren't interested or something thereof is just bad form.