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I don't have the book at me now, but I think it would be determined what the wording is.

I remember the first x being 'investigating the supernatural'. So if you're investigating, say a mundane serial killer, you don't get the x boost... ?

But on the other x boosts, does it say 'in the presence of' or 'confronting/opposing'?
If the former, yes ISP boost, if the later then no ISP boost.

In my BTS-2 game, the characters started 'under scrutiny', then have moved on to doing some research, clue gathering, etc. And the whole 'investigating the supernatural' x boost was brought up because I was keeping their ISP normal at the time. But this could very easily be used as a detector. makes me wonder if I should adjust the definitions on the current perception/mindset of the character(s) and not the actual situation.

Look at this thread, which it was discussed varies views on the ISP boost.

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=97336

A lot of the text makes it the danger or presence of supernatural danger that triggers the boost.
Some like to emphasize the PRESENCE part, other people the DANGER part.

And it is 'real' danger-presence or that in the character's mind?

I am still debating how to handle this in my group. I don't want them to have a supernatural auto-detector, but at the same time don't want players telling me 'my character thinks he's in danger' to try to justify an ISP boost either...

And don't forget there is no x6 threat level. Some PCCs get a different x#

Also notes:
1) Rifts Africa was written a LONG time before BTS-2 I doubt KS wrote any part of BTS-2 thinking about Lo Fung.
2) If you're playing a BTS-2 game where you need justification for people to work with evil necromancers, supernatural horrors, etc. then sure that would be logical. Do it that way.
3) If your playing a BTS-2 game in which supernatural stuff is rare, magic virtually non-existent, a lot of 'mundane' mysteries sprinkled in with the supernatural, and even the PCC characters have a hard time grasping the fact that the supernatural exists, then I would have it be perceived threat or danger, not actual.

For your example: Lo Fung is in human form, doing research with another character (who doesn't realize he is a dragon) in a library. In my game. I would probably have the Base ISP.
Now, the guy is told by another what Lo Fung is. Now he is panicky, give him the next threat level x. He does a See Aura. Lo Fung is confirmed supernatural, giving the next or even greater threat level x boost. 6 years later working with Lo Fung is so common-place, back to normal ISP. Lo Fung goes off the deep-end after 7 years, boost that x# up all the way.


Or:
Working with Lo Fung is always max boost. Players find every excuse to bring him along, delaying things, allowing some people to die, whatever, because they justify the x# increase outweighs the negatives. We would have lost, so 4 people dying is better than us all PLUS the population of New York.

I would think about figuring out the game as you play it and want it to go, and only then determine how the threat multiplier works. BTS- allows a great variation of play styles (great diversity IMO) and there is enough wiggle room to interpret the rules differently for different types of play style.

I started the thread mentioned earlier, thank you for bringing that up as it saved me the trip of hunting it down

I would resolve this in a similar fashion like I would the Succubus. What I recall of Lo Fung, he would spend his time in a altered form (In think he looked like a middle aged asian man). In my game, supernatural beings who are in hiding through whatever means they have, they dont let off a aura (they are basically grounding their power in their hiding). But if they use ANY of their other abilites, this would trigger the ISP boost to those nearby him.

In this theory, if Lo Fung was hanging out with Psychics and kept his human guise and didnt use his abilites, no one would have been the wiser about who he was.

Kurjak wrote:Ok, now for the sake of argument, what about a supernatural creature whose true form looks human? Say a demigod or similar... He/she is not trying to disguise anything, so would that boost it?

Ive been toying with a system for ahwile now where "meta-humans" and such like Mutant abominations with superhuman like abilites, Demi-gods and Scions(like you'd mentioned); Ive even been working on a RCC variation of people being bitten by werewolves and becoming a minor supernatural being from it and similar beings.

The rule I keep coming back to thats been working in my game is that they are only minor supernatural beings first off, and they only register supernatural energies while using their "abilites" and even then they only register at a x2 level. This works since usually when they use their abilites its against the supernatural so the players that are with them are already at either a X2 investigative level or higher.

And even if they do attack the players, the X2 isnt as useful to the players and they have to be careful how they use their isp (none of my players are a comabtive PCC so this hasnt been a serious issue). This way they cant carry around their comrade like a battery. If they are remotely human in someway, they will never register a level like the supernatural does simply becuase they are human. thats how its been working in my game anyway.

My last tidbit on this is that I would use said beings like Scions sparingly. This is a very "toned down" game compared to fantastical games like Rifts and HU. Its very much an "us vs them" themed game and throwing in too much contrast like beings that ride the fence can disrupt that basic principle and can also numb the players interest in the milder aspects of the game.

This game more than any other palladium game reflects a world similar to ours, and in such a "mundane" world, even creatures with a X2 rating would/should be terrifying to the common Dick and Jane.

It will become to much like H.U,if you use Good SN,s. as part of your team.

Friendly Supernaturals need to be use very rare in games,like 1 in every 22 games.

the only powered characters,need to be the Psychic and the Magic user.

i think the "danger" aspect of it is a side effect of the increase. since most investigators usually end up being threatened by supernatural creatures, they come to associate the feeling they get from the boost in ISP with the presence of danger.

being around a supernatural creature friendly to them, would still boost their ISP levels.

ZorValachan wrote:I am still debating how to handle this in my group. I don't want them to have a supernatural auto-detector, but at the same time don't want players telling me 'my character thinks he's in danger' to try to justify an ISP boost either...

You could make it so they are unaware of the increase ISP. I'd play it like that specifically. I'd tell them when they are in danger, when they want to use their powers (so they can keep track of the ISP), but in the case of where they have no reason to think they need to use their psionics and are not in danger...they have the added isp but they don't know they have it unless they use a power

Great thread! Rifts Africa was probably written around the same time as notes were being compiled for the Lazlo Agency sourcebook which was mentioned in the first edition books but never came to pass. Boxed Nightmares was probably the more useful sourcebook, so I'm not complaining. Had the Lazlo Agency sourcebook happened, those Lo Fang and the updated Victor Lazlo probably would have appeared there instead of Rifts Africa where they have become stuck in mega-plot limbo.

All of these suggestions seem workable to me. I particularly like Mr. Lou's concept about perception of the supernatural being a component to I.S.P. surges. It fits well with Victor Lazlo's theory about psychic powers developing as a natural defense against supernatural predators.

Gaby's point about restricting the appearance of SN allies also struck a cord with me. I have been too heavy with the SN NPCs in the past. When the Court of Tarot were first developed at the game table, that group was fairly heavy with non-humans. It ended up with three SN creatures in the ranks of the Major Arcana, not counting the spirit fox who was a player character. In the updated errata, two of those three (Lord Red and Lord Green) have been reclassified as mortal aliens, so only Lady Teapot is the true SN of the three.