Errata (and or nits) with with Robotech®: The Masters Saga

Drakenred®™© · Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:18 am

Because some of us may be getting the book sometime between today (revised to Friday) and monday, and the rest will get it later, so Fair warning the following will probably include some spoilers. in the mean time, let's keep this thread on topic with actual typos errors oddities and possible editing mistakes.. . . .

And a Reminder, there were a few errors and not exactly cannon units in the original Southern Cross RPG book,(not to mention things that were not exactly cannon because they were not well defined to start with) so if you see something in the new book that seems to conflict with the Original RPG you may want to double check with whats currently the "Source" material

And that (more or less in order) is

1) What Harmony Gold says it is(wich kind of takes precidence over . . .
2) The Original US Show Robotec, (with the obvious exclusion of Art Errors and Fan Service)
3) The OSM where HG has not said one way or the other

and last if not least

GM Fiat where all else is silence.

Granted if the RPG seems to conflict with the current "offical word" from HG then its a legit item for Errataing and or nitpicking

Lets try to keep the comentary on sutch things as Mecha A clearly has tissue paper armor because they always get blown up or Mecha B is indestructable becuase of X to a minimum. Lets face it Its Anima, a mecha is not going to blow up on camera even if the pilot deliberatly fly it full throttel into at a Motherships main engins with ticking megabombs straped to it while yelling ou the name of (fill in the blank) unless it serves the story line for said mecha to be destroyed. and if the script calles for said unit to be destroyed and then it will be taken out by a child spilling his unidentifiable food item in some obsucre opening that was not their untill said item is spilled for the sake of destroying said mecha*.

*name that Anima!

Drakenred®™© · Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:22 am

YESH this was a few days premature lol!

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 5:34 pm

Setting the stage already? :-D

Drakenred®™© · Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:42 pm

taalismn wrote:Setting the stage already?

Just want the Bloody thing on my desk.

Unread post by **NMI** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:53 pm

Got my copy today!

Jefffar · Unread post by **Jefffar** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 8:02 pm

Mr. Deific NMI wrote:Got my copy today!

This reply has been self moderated - Jefffar

Drakenred®™© · Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:20 pm

Jefffar wrote:
Mr. Deific NMI wrote:Got my copy today!

This reply has been self moderated - Jefffar

Dito Edit
especialy since my copy did not show up today.

tobefrnk · Unread post by **tobefrnk** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:45 pm

** In the description for the Myrmidon it's described as using the same laser resistant armor as the full sized hovertank (which makes no mention of laser resistant armor in its description) and then fails to provide any game rules for the laser resistant armor. Eventually, I did find game rules for the type of laser resistant armor utilized by the ACS listed in the description of ACS body armor. It was just a little frustrating to be reading the book "front to back" and come across "laser resistant armor" with no mention of how or why. So, that's my nit for the laser resistance.

** In the description of the Tirolian Muse "Song of War", a bonus is given but it does not say as to what the dice role bonus is actually for. I believe it is for S.D.C. given the parenthetical and the previous description of the "Song of Courage".

** In the weapon description for the Ajax, it's stated that multiple launch ordinance pods may be used but there is no stat other than maximum weight and type of rocket that such pods use. Various other mecha/craft of the ACS also use MLOPs and stats are given for those in their weapon description. Some would seem compatible with the Ajax. It's just not fully clear what the Ajax would carry. Of course, that gives us GMs the opportunity for our own designs. :wink:

** Size stats are not provided for the Searchlight Drone. Looks like it's time to go to the video tape.

EDIT: In the future, multiple posts made one right after the other, should be made as one post. You can go back and edit the original post. - NMI

Drakenred®™© · Mon Mar 23, 2009 8:43 pm

ok a bit of a nit

The EP 20 and EU-11 gunpod bascialy do the same damage at the same range

The EP 20 has a 60 round payload
The EU-11 has a 28 round payload

the EP 20 takes 1 hour to fully recharge
The EU-11 takes 3 hours to fully rechage. . . even when mounted to a tank packing a main energy gun that would make a munchkin happy.

tobefrnk · Unread post by **tobefrnk** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 9:32 pm

Drakenred®™© wrote:ok a bit of a nit

The EP 20 and EU-11 gunpod bascialy do the same damage at the same range

The EP 20 has a 60 round payload
The EU-11 has a 28 round payload

the EP 20 takes 1 hour to fully recharge
The EU-11 takes 3 hours to fully rechage. . . even when mounted to a tank packing a main energy gun that would make a munchkin happy.

Well the first Hovertanks went into production in 2013 and the first Logans in 2018. Simply a more advanced designed. Now, why the EU-11 wasn't replaced in the Hovertank upgrades with something more akin to the performance of the EP-20, yeah, that's the nit.

ShadowLogan · Unread post by **ShadowLogan** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:57 am

pg. 11: Monument City was founded in 2017? Wasn't Monument City the location where Rick ditched Lisa to go see Minmei? Admitedly there can be more than one Monument City...

pg. 94 & 97: the VHT-1 can fire its armshield mounted tri-barreled cannon in Battloid mode. It was shown used in "Danger Zone" IIRC.

how would the Myrmidon fair using the Logan Gunpod? Stowage and use. Given the trouble with using the Spartas gunpod, the smaller Logan pod makes more sense.

pg. 154-5: Sylphid, aside from the Veritech dialogue issue not even being addressed. The Sylphid is shown to have 3 different wing configurations:
-forward swept (covered)
-rear swept (covered)
-there is also a version with elongated wings (also has what appears to be an elongated rear body), or is this not considered a Sylphid. Animation shows it more than once.

Logan:
Contains a visual history and kill/loss ratio of the Logan based on the series (spread between the 1st two posts):
http://www.robotech.com/community/forum/read.php?id=870914&forumid=9&pagenumber=1

pg. 77-8: Logan casualties where high? The visual data suggests otherwise. More VHTs did not come back than Logans in the same episodes. The AGACs gets shot up left and right to, but not the Logan. So what exactly is the basis for this?

pg 80-1: Logan weapons where ineffective against bioroids? Marie scored over a dozen kills with a Logan against Bioroids. The "white-shirted" Logans are shown firing, but seldom is it shown if the hit/miss. Again what exactly is the basis for this?

Nor was the Logan ever used against Dropships in the show, but it is interesting to note that the Logan guns did damage structures on the hull of a RM Cityship. Something the more common Sylphid could not do with its missiles. So it is possible that the Dropships could be damaged if they connect.

tobefrnk · Unread post by **tobefrnk** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:29 am

ShadowLogan wrote:pg. 11: Monument City was founded in 2017? Wasn't Monument City the location where Rick ditched Lisa to go see Minmei? Admitedly there can be more than one Monument City...

I'm interpreting this to mean that Monument was officially recognized by the UEG as an autonomous state and/or established as the new headquarters after the destruction of New Macross.

ShadowLogan wrote:pg. 94 & 97: the VHT-1 can fire its armshield mounted tri-barreled cannon in Battloid mode. It was shown used in "Danger Zone" IIRC.

I thought it was used as such but hadn't had a chance to check the video tape yet.

As for the Logan. I always seem to remember it having a difficult time of it. It's all subjective of course and yeah, Marie was great piloting one but she is one of the series heros. Sure it's not scientific but Marie was shot down (and shown really sweating) when piloting a Logan. She seemed to be a dynamo in an Ajax.

Rabid Southern Cross Fan · Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:15 pm

Just got my copies a few hours ago and have skimmed them.

Uh, on the whole 'Laser Resistant' thing. The forearm shields on the ASC mecha are shown to be ENERGY resistant. The Masters mecha don't even use lasers. The Logan and Spartas are shown, numerous times, parrying these blasts with their shields and not being damaged. Ablative armour applied to these shields (and the forearms of the Spartas as well) that reduce the damage by 1/2 from all energy weapons would make sense.

P. 81 - Where are the Arm Shields? The Wings were reduced in armour whereas they should have increased.

P. 83 Hardpoint - It should be able to hold 1 MRM, guided bomb or MLOP (which should hold either Mini-Missiles or 190mm Hammerhead Missiles like the Alpha uses).

P. 88 LLW-20: It can be fired in FIghter mode too.

Ajax nose-mounted blaster

P. 89 - Y'all forgot the 2nd beam cannon pod mounted on the left-hand hardpoint. Its usually a 1-barreled beam cannon.

Ajax weapons

Each of the wing hardpoints on the Ajax should be able to mount either an MRM (Python), guided bomb or cluster bomb Multi-Ejector Rack (the latter two for Helicopter Ops). Or hung on both hardpoints per wing a MLOP with x6 MRMs (Lightning cluster bomb) or x 12 190mm Hammerhead Missiles or x24 70mm Mongoose Mini-missiles.

P. 95 - The Hovertank is shown to be able to hover at circa 70-80kph in Gladiator mode. The 13kph is only its Walk Speed in Gladiator.

P. 97 - The Beam Cannon of the Officer's Upgrade is a 220mm, not 125mm. The difference is the slugthrower uses the barrel as its diameter, whereas the beam uses aperture. Big difference between the two diameters.

P. 99 - The pics of the 1A & 1J heads are missing.

P. 100 - Boy, y'all are gonna hate me. Thats the wrong Battloid mode pic. Thats a modified Spartas (you can tell by the legs). The Myrmidon Battloid mode is in fact this mecha:

Myrmidon Battloid mode

I don't know as anyone has ever figured out exactly what the difference is about the Spartas on p. 100.

P. 109 - Missing NCO and Enlisted models.

P. 110 - Missing head lasers.

P. 118 - Missing the shoulder missile pods (look closely and you can see the seams and the chest slope is made to allow the doors to swing inwards).

P. 128 - I thought the Fenris was supposed to fly. Thats why there are numerous thrusters in addition to the big backpack.

P. 138 - The Triton is a ful-size Battloid.

Spartas, Garm, Salamander and Triton Battloids

P. 141 - I would make the case the Unicorn is a full size Batloid. Its shown to be such in the colouring book. (I know, its a bizarre justification, trust me).

Unicorn Colouring Book (picture courtesy of Roger Harkavy)

P. 148 - The M2204 is missing the x15 MRMs mounted in the rear bin where the antenna is (you can plainly see them in the lineart).

P. 150 - Lineart for the Flashclapper Hovercycle indicates the designer was Yameta. It would have been nice to include that. Also, the Instrument Panel is shown to be an LCD that can switch between Vid-Link and the vehicle display.

Instrument Panel (01)

Instrument Panel (02)

P. 156 - I wont debate about the Veritech Sylphide, but I will point out:

The ferry range and top end speed are too low. The Sylphide is transatmospheric and can achieve orbit under its own power (Danger Zone). The top speed should be MACH 4+.

The ventrally mounted weapons pods (x2 lasers) is missing

Ventral weapons pod

Four hardpoints, not 2.
Lower nacelle hardpoints

P. 158 - Missing the x4 conformal hardpoints on the engine nacelles.

falcons sporting external missiles

P. 160 - The Phantom lineart shows it capable of mounting a single MRM per hardpoint.

P. 162 - Uh, the Tristars should have at least x5 amount of main body for armour. There is no way the Ikazuchi's have 65k amour while the Tristars have 13k.

P. 165 - 168 - The armour on these vehicles are way too low, especially the Pegasus Assault Shuttle. This is especially egregious considering the armour in comparison to the Horizon.

P. 171, 172 & 176 - The pics for the LP-09 & M-35 were reversed. Also, its pretty clear that the weapon carried by the GMP Officers on their shield is a blade, not a baton. I would make the case its a vibro-blade in fact.

Weapons

P. 180 - The LLC-8 is also used by the Cities defense Unit troops.

P. 181 - The IPC-12 is used also by the ATACs (in fact, more times than by the TASC)

193 - Missing the Recon's jump pack.

Recon pack

P. 253 - Dimensions are wrong. The Transport is only 50m tall. All other dimensions should be adjusted accordingly. The hatch at the bottom is only circa 10m tall.

P. 255 - Missing the x2 nose-mounted point-defense cannons and x2 beam cannons mounted in the rear.

A personal errata...Its David FARRIS, nol David Ferris.

Chris0013 · Unread post by **Chris0013** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:45 pm

Page 54 and 55..the Forest Division mentions a Firbolg battloid and the Marsh Division mentions the Naga power armor. Most likely misprints but maybe we get a couple more toys.

Pictures for the EU-10 and EU 12 would have been nice as well as the hand-held weapons for the power armor.

Not really missing but would love to see the lethal loadout for the original Unicorn.

tobefrnk · Unread post by **tobefrnk** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:48 am

Rabid Southern Cross Fan wrote:P. 100 - Boy, y'all are gonna hate me. Thats the wrong Battloid mode pic. Thats a modified Spartas (you can tell by the legs).

Hate ya? Nah. Nice find on the art.

Rabid Southern Cross Fan · Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:55 am

Chris0013 wrote:Pictures for the EU-10 and EU 12 would have been nice as well as the hand-held weapons for the power armor.

I have pics, in case you're wondering...

EU-10 Beam Rifle

EU-12 Nightstalker

Not really missing but would love to see the lethal loadout for the original Unicorn.

As far as I know, there was no information on exactly what the Unicorn's loadout originally was. I offer my alternate Battloid version:

UEF Battloids of the 2nd Robotech War

Chris0013 · Unread post by **Chris0013** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:56 am

Thanks Rabid....I have seen them at a couple of websites...I was just reference the lack of illustration in the book...there may be some newbies out there who have not seen them and it would be nice to have the quick reference.

The only thing we have on the lethal unicorn is the statement in the write up...I imagine it has lethal ammo for the 40mm...but would that sound cannon be replaced as well??? possibly like the arm cannon in the Fenris??? would have been nice to have had a blurb on it and that the weapon was modular and could be replaced if lethal force was needed.

Just found...on the entry for the Janissary...write up refers to a 40mm laser cannon...weapon systems calls it an 80mm cannon.

Desert Squad MOS has the "Mechanoid" infantry pilot as a supplementary MOS instead of just mechanized infantry.

Chris0013 · Unread post by **Chris0013** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:25 pm

ShadowLogan wrote:pg. 94 & 97: the VHT-1 can fire its armshield mounted tri-barreled cannon in Battloid mode. It was shown used in "Danger Zone" IIRC.

how would the Myrmidon fair using the Logan Gunpod? Stowage and use. Given the trouble with using the Spartas gunpod, the smaller Logan pod makes more sense.

seconding this based on the fact that the Myrmidon would be completely helpless in transport and battloid mode if the only built in weapons are not usable in those modes.

Rabid Southern Cross Fan · Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:19 pm

The Bioroids all should have a Space Flight speed code and the SubCommander & Elite Commander Bioroids should be able to fly in the upper atmosphere. We see this in Volunteers and the second battle in Danger Zone respectively. Also, look at the artwork and you can see the jetpacks on the back plain as day. They should also be able to have a thruster assisted leap as seen in the second battle in Danger Zone.

Green Bioroid without Biover

Blue Bioroid without Biover(01)

Blue Bioroid without Biover(02)

Red Bioroid without Biover

Green Bioroid flying upper atmosphere

Green Bioroid thruster assisted leap

Also, I'm leary of this idea that Bioroids are simply 'peacekeeping mecha'. Police they ain't. They're elite Airborne Infantry more than anything else, designed for Lightning Raid Warfare.

ShadowLogan · Unread post by **ShadowLogan** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:25 pm

Just got my copies a few hours ago and have skimmed them.

P. 81 - Where are the Arm Shields? The Wings were reduced in armour whereas they should have increased.

I pretty much glossed over the game stats, could catch. The Logan is shown blocking incoming fire with its forearm/wing combination. No apparent damage to the wing.

I'm interpreting this to mean that Monument was officially recognized by the UEG as an autonomous state and/or established as the new headquarters after the destruction of New Macross

"is established near the ruins" to me would qualify as a new settlement. Like I said its possible more than one city can have the same name. I can think of 3 communities in WI that share the name of other Cities outside of WI, plus Kansas City is in the state of KA and MO.

As for the Logan. I always seem to remember it having a difficult time of it. It's all subjective of course and yeah,

Of the Logan appearances the 1st is likely what you are thinking about, but then again everything had a difficult time with the Masters mecha. The onscreen evidence points to it performing better than people usually give it credit for is what I am saying, the RPG this time around seems biased with statements about the effectiveness of mecha.

Chris0013 · Unread post by **Chris0013** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:53 pm

Rabid Southern Cross Fan wrote:The Bioroids all should have a Space Flight speed code and the SubCommander & Elite Commander Bioroids should be able to fly in the upper atmosphere. We see this in Volunteers and the second battle in Danger Zone respectively. Also, look at the artwork and you can see the jetpacks on the back plain as day. They should also be able to have a thruster assisted leap as seen in the second battle in Danger Zone.

Green Bioroid without Biover

Blue Bioroid without Biover(01)

Blue Bioroid without Biover(02)

Red Bioroid without Biover

Green Bioroid flying upper atmosphere

Green Bioroid thruster assisted leap

Also, I'm leary of this idea that Bioroids are simply 'peacekeeping mecha'. Police they ain't. They're elite Airborne Infantry more than anything else, designed for Lightning Raid Warfare.

I forget the episode but hovertank battloids are actually seen flying off a Master's Mothership

ShadowLogan · Unread post by **ShadowLogan** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:10 am

Chris0013 wrote:I forget the episode but hovertank battloids are actually seen flying off a Master's Mothership

"Danger Zone"

green.nova343 · Thu Mar 26, 2009 12:35 pm

tobefrnk wrote:
ShadowLogan wrote:pg. 11: Monument City was founded in 2017? Wasn't Monument City the location where Rick ditched Lisa to go see Minmei? Admitedly there can be more than one Monument City...

I'm interpreting this to mean that Monument was officially recognized by the UEG as an autonomous state and/or established as the new headquarters after the destruction of New Macross.

ShadowLogan wrote:pg. 94 & 97: the VHT-1 can fire its armshield mounted tri-barreled cannon in Battloid mode. It was shown used in "Danger Zone" IIRC.

I thought it was used as such but hadn't had a chance to check the video tape yet.

As for the Logan. I always seem to remember it having a difficult time of it. It's all subjective of course and yeah, Marie was great piloting one but she is one of the series heros. Sure it's not scientific but Marie was shot down (and shown really sweating) when piloting a Logan. She seemed to be a dynamo in an Ajax.

I think the issue is actually two-fold. First, it mentions in the description that the Logan loses speed & agility when its hardpoints are loaded up... effectively making its ability as a "superiority/interceptor" fighter limited to the pre-missile jets of the early 1950s (i.e. even before the Sidewinder I and Sparrow I/II missiles were even used). And their hardpoints are limited in their capacity as well: max payload of 2 MRMs, 4 SRMs, or 14 MMs doesn't give you a lot of stand-off firepower. So mixing it up close range brings you within gun range of your target... which, in the Bioroids' case, means an enemy just as agile, & just as fast in Battloid Mode. Hence, the AGACS was a true improvement, as it was designed to carry twice the payload & specifically designed to carry it in Battloid Mode as well.

Secondly, we know from the series itself that the ASC took massive casualties during 2RW. Even with the introduction of the AGACS, we still see ASC forces keep getting pounded, & at best only able to manage stalemates -- "victory" in a mission essentially only coming on missions that weren't designed to try & take the Masters down "for good" (i.e. Emerson's reopening of communications with Moon Base ALuCe). You can't lose tens (or even hundreds) of interplanetary/interstellar spaceships without also losing large amounts (at least 50%, if not more) of their onboard fighter complements.

So, for me, it's not that the Logan is necessarily an "inferior" Veritech... it just wasn't designed for the majority of the combat it ended up facing.

Tiree · Unread post by **Tiree** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 2:29 pm

Pg. 65 - Mecha Pilot Ground Veritechs - it mentions the Hurricane... uhm where is it? Or is it really the Silverback hmm?!?! :wink:

Colonel Wolfe · Thu Mar 26, 2009 3:54 pm

green.nova343 wrote: So, for me, it's not that the Logan is necessarily an "inferior" Veritech... it just wasn't designed for the majority of the combat it ended up facing.

being i uually include some kinda rules for size in games. the smaller profile of the logan makes it deadly verse the enemy (imo) it was designed to slay: Zent Malcontents.
This isnt supported by the show, or the rpg, but i felt the Logan was made specifically for use against the Malcontents on earth. The Alpha was over-gunned for dealing with urban combat, and a little on the large side. the VF-1 was to large for urban areas, but the Logan was perfect for dealing with them.

Lt. Holmes · Unread post by **Lt. Holmes** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 4:17 am

Colonel Wolfe wrote:
green.nova343 wrote: being i uually include some kinda rules for size in games. the smaller profile of the logan makes it deadly verse the enemy (imo) it was designed to slay: Zent Malcontents.
This isnt supported by the show, or the rpg, but i felt the Logan was made specifically for use against the Malcontents on earth. The Alpha was over-gunned for dealing with urban combat, and a little on the large side. the VF-1 was to large for urban areas, but the Logan was perfect for dealing with them.

The Logan's small size and good speed would also make it very manouverable, and thus a very good mecha to use when poking about the debris field and space-based wreckage left over from the Rain of Death. The Logan just doesn't get enough love...

green.nova343 · Fri Mar 27, 2009 10:03 am

Lt. Holmes wrote:
Colonel Wolfe wrote:
green.nova343 wrote: being i uually include some kinda rules for size in games. the smaller profile of the logan makes it deadly verse the enemy (imo) it was designed to slay: Zent Malcontents.
This isnt supported by the show, or the rpg, but i felt the Logan was made specifically for use against the Malcontents on earth. The Alpha was over-gunned for dealing with urban combat, and a little on the large side. the VF-1 was to large for urban areas, but the Logan was perfect for dealing with them.

The Logan's small size and good speed would also make it very manouverable, and thus a very good mecha to use when poking about the debris field and space-based wreckage left over from the Rain of Death. The Logan just doesn't get enough love...

Exactly.

Which is why the Super Logan from Return of the Masters was a great upgrae: slightly more armor, plus built-in SRM launchers for an integral payload. Still not the greatest for mid- or long-range combat, but definitely enhanced the short-range potential, & would have allowed them to still take on Bioroids from outside of drum blaster range.

Chris0013 · Unread post by **Chris0013** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 10:20 pm

This is cross book errata for the damage of the .50 Caliber round....

Macross Pg 133. entry for M3A2M SLAP does 2D6 for a single round.

Masters Pg 126-127. M35 Kodiak SLAP does 1D8 for a single round.

Palladium should have set up SDC / MDC for the conventional / SLAP ammo and been consistent.

Colonel Wolfe · Fri Mar 27, 2009 11:18 pm

Chris0013 wrote:This is cross book errata for the damage of the .50 Caliber round....

Macross Pg 133. entry for M3A2M SLAP does 2D6 for a single round.

Masters Pg 126-127. M35 Kodiak SLAP does 1D8 for a single round.

Palladium should have set up SDC / MDC for the conventional / SLAP ammo and been consistent.

This is becaue the Technology declined after the Macross Era, natrually Southren Cross equipment is going to deal less damage, and have less armor.
I dont think this is an error, Tommy has said in the past that the Southren Cross era is the Lowest point for humanity in Robotech.

green.nova343 · Sat Mar 28, 2009 2:07 am

Colonel Wolfe wrote:
Chris0013 wrote:This is cross book errata for the damage of the .50 Caliber round....

Macross Pg 133. entry for M3A2M SLAP does 2D6 for a single round.

Masters Pg 126-127. M35 Kodiak SLAP does 1D8 for a single round.

Palladium should have set up SDC / MDC for the conventional / SLAP ammo and been consistent.

This is becaue the Technology declined after the Macross Era, natrually Southren Cross equipment is going to deal less damage, and have less armor.
I dont think this is an error, Tommy has said in the past that the Southren Cross era is the Lowest point for humanity in Robotech.

The only problem with that, though, is that the Southern Cross then turns around & designs a bunch of infantry-sized energy weapons, "power armor suits" that bridge the gap between the Cyclone & traditional Battloids, and develops their own body armor in parallel/prior to the CVR-3... all of which are advances over the equipment & designs available to the UEDF of the Macross Era, as well as being more advanced than the SLAP rounds themselves.

Jefffar · Unread post by **Jefffar** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 2:22 am

Repeat after me: There is no conspiracy to make Southern Cross unimportant.

Rabid Southern Cross Fan · Sat Mar 28, 2009 5:22 am

Jefffar wrote:Repeat after me: There is no conspiracy to make Southern Cross unimportant.

Not on Palladium's part, no. But there are some disheartening game rules that simply do not matchup with the mecha we see during The Masters War (I'll post a followup in my Armour/Damage Revamp thread).

P. 223 - The Terminator cannot use the Disc Blaster as its a mecha-sized weapon.

Scorpion Leader · Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:55 pm

Hi,
i'm new so you guys take it easy on me okay. First my compliments to MR.Maerker and Palladium for aseries of Robotech books that are more polished than the originals, that having been said my nits are:
The lack of NPC stats (wheres Dana,Zor, Bowie, Louie Sean,Musika,Dante,Marie,Nova etc.)
No Tokagawa class Battleship or Master Cruiser stats or for the fighters aboard the Tokagawa.
The EU-12 is diffrent from the the EU-12 listed in Shadow Chronicles.
(Southern its an Ion Gun, In Shadow its a particle beam with different stats/i think one of them should be reclassified as an EU-14 which is a designation that has not beenused in any of the RPG books yet.)
The Weasel Pistol and the Wolvine Assult Rifle have different damage listings of 5D6 instead of 4D6 as in Shadow Chronicles (maybe the Southern cross uses a heavier Ammo Round? also in Shadow there are no balance penalties for the Weasel pistol.)
The Ajax has only 2 hard pionts and seems to use only MLOPs (which the old Rpg covered better, but i'd change it from 8 medium range missile to mini /possibly short range missiles per pod. although most sources i've seen say its really only 6 per MLOP for the Ajax. Otherwise if you haven't cross checked with the other books like i have the Ajax hardpoint loadout is the same as the SF/A-5 Conbat or Sylphid Fighter & Beta as far as weight and type of ordanance are concerned.)
The Ajax says the laser cannon is available in helicopter mode only its not, its also availbale in figther mode as well (as seen in the epsiode False Start)
The old book made better mention of laser resistance of the Mecha. (which is the standard half damage rule in palladium games. also it is mentioned in passing in the decription of the Sylphid figher, so only the SC battle armor takes quater damage, Mecha, power armor, and vechicles take half damage. Yeah! that was a hard one to find in the new book.)
The Ajax running speed is only 35mph sloooow for a mecha of its type. shoot anything other than a MACII can out run it!!(the Spartas which in the original books ran 35mph even got a speed boost to 70mph, why was the Ajax over looked.)
NO MODAT5!!!
NO CHT-1 Centaur Combat Hover Tank (which is only a semi-variable Mecha because it has no Battaloid mode and only a psedo-guardian mode,so thats how you get around not calling it veritech hover tank or you can say it was a competing but flawed and failed design like the VF-4) Common Harmoney Gold let Palladium let us have the MODAT and Centaur Tank Please.....!!!
Space speed listings better here than in macross or shadow but i think the Logan is lacking it (and does any one know if we just use the old double normal speed for space speed rule for the Macross New Gen./Shadow MECHA and for those mecha without a space speed listing or will it be adressed say in the big book of robotech spaceships?
When will we ever get a robotech or other palladium rpg book almost entirely free of typos and mitakes. where are the proof readers man..at Both Palladium and Harmoney Gold. Although i hate waiting i'd rather have an almost mistake free book rather than one that was rushed out with errors. (To be fair ,this is probablly why, although it still has minor mistakes Southern Cross took so long. Also sometime I feel as much as i love Palladium i feel it takes on more than it can do at times bieing divide between so many produt lines. Its better to do a few thing Really well then alot of things that are okay at best.)

Scorpion Leader · Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:26 pm

I've got a few more nits i forgot to mention:

softcover books where the lamanent doesn't start peeeling off.

the Phantom Recon Plane and Raven Shuttle are each missing the number of Jammers (pods) they carry.

the Ajax hardpoint loadout is also similar to the Logans as well as the mecha i previously mentioned.

the calvary version of the Jassinary is missing what type of Communications Gear it carries.

the Sparta can fire its tri-barrel ion gun in battloid mode.

who needs the EU-10 all it is is an EU-11, why not just have only the EU-11 with an optional carry handle (or a carbine version like the LP-10, and just rename the EU-12 the EU-10 so it does not conflict with Shadow Chronicles EU-12 for the Condor or name it the EU-14 as i mentioned before)

also even though i should post this question on the macross thread, i'd like to ask anway, could any firgure out what the missile loadout on the zent. Cyclops is suposed to be the write up is very confusing?
Scorpion Leader out.

GreatArelius1 · Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:01 am

Why is the zero gravity combat skill given in the Legionnaire MOS Bioroid Terminator when its already in O.C.C. skills?? Mistake??

Scorpion Leader · Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:25 am

Just wanted to post for those of you who wanted the Masters Search light Stats, i looked them up in the old REF Feild Guide and is listed on pg. 100 as follows:
height:22 ft. (7m) width: 8ft. (2.8m) length: 11 ft. (3.9m)

Here are some more nits i came across with Masters:
the Falcon Fighter has five engine thrusters and not four as stated in the text. this can be seen in the episode: Metal Fire if you slow it down to frame by frame.

pg. 154 under ejection system it mentions the Shadow and Vulture areospace fighters, but they are know were in the book.

The Sedution Skill is still missing in the skill decriptions. (The Tirolian Muse and Minmay both have this skill) I looked up in my Rifts book it is 20% +3% per level if anyone needs to know.

The Janissary Command Vehicle artwork still shows a missile launcher in the top rear that does not exist, it is a hold over From the Sentinals Book and prelim line art that appeared in that book.

Also i must correct myself in my previous posts:

I ment the EU-11 should have been listed like the LAR-10 not the Lp-10.

The Logan does list its space speed.

The Raven shuttle does not have ECM jammers it is only a early warning radar plane, but the Phantom still need s the number of jammmers it carries.

Scorpion Leader · Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:47 am

No mistake if you read through the SC army OCCs and MOSs you'll find the same thing,and if you read thourghly before the list of SC MOS skills it says some skills may be repeated and to use the Highter of the skill % bonuses listed from ethier the OCC or MOS.
Say MOS lists +15% Bonus and OCC +10% then your bonus is +15%
IF OCC is +15% and MOS 10% then agian your bonus is only +15%
If say occ lists a +10% skill bonus and the mos is +10% then do not add them togher, the bonus is only +10%. some mos like SC Aeospace Pilot will say like pilot Vertichs get a Bonus of an addational +6% rather than adding another +14 or +10%.
Hope that clears it up for You.

Rabid Southern Cross Fan · Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:19 pm

nathan wrote:I don't see any launcher and any shouldn't swing in. They'd hit the missiles, internal machinery, or the pilot.

Look again. The shoulder of the Salamander has additional armour plating on it compared to the other Battloids (it sticks out far further). There is a seam running along it where the additional armour attaches to the shoulder as if it were an armoured door like a missile pod. The glacis slope on the chest should allow that 'door' to swing inwards, towards the chest. There is enough room in-between that extra armour plating and the shoulder for either rocket-propelled grenades like the 60mm Recluse or maybe even 190mm Hammerhead SRMs. The same is true for the chest glacis on the Unicorn and even the Battloid-sized Basilisk (which is how it was in the old edition when it was an EBSIS Battloid). It would give the Battloids some relative long-range offensive firepower.

Rabid Southern Cross Fan · Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:13 pm

nathan wrote:The arms on the Salamander... iffy. It's probably the bulk of it's extra armor though. I don't see the chest missile launcher though. The glacis is sloped to deflect rounds plus there wouldn't be room with the cockpit and all the other systems.

You're making the assumption that the glacis is solid. There is no reason for it to be as it could be simply like the armoured pod doors on the Tomahawk, Spartan, Gladiator, Excaliber or VR-041 Grenadier. The ordnance would be safely stored and the missile launcher would take up very little space that wasn't already covered by the doors. The 190mm Hammerhead is only 54cm long and the 60mm Recluse is even shorter at 15cm. The Unicorn should have a depth comparable to that of the Salamander at circa 2.5m. That should be more than sufficient space to accomodate the missile pods and have room left over for the driver.

::shrugs::

Different interpretation of the same material. Sadly, unless someone can contact the Studio Ammonite designers we won't know for certain what was intended and what was not.

ShadowLogan · Unread post by **ShadowLogan** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:28 am

nathan wrote:Other than the Kraken I don't believe any of them are Power Armor for these reasons;
1) the heads, arms, and legs are clearly robotic. There's is no way to get a human limb through the joints.
2) the size to be a PA suit is way wrong. At most they should add a foor the the weigher's hight. There is no way a 6ft person can wear a 10ft suit of armor.

Well I think they are classified as PA because of the way PB classifies Power Armor, which is by Height (see Rifts Glitterboy fluff text). Who says that the operator's limbs have to be in the limb in part or full...

It might be better to think of the over sized PA more like human scale Battlepods (really the TBP is not even twice the height of its usual Zentraedi giant-size operators). By PB's definition of human scale PA, if we apply it to races of different heights, then any robot vehicle no more than x2 (or there about) the height of its intended user with a single operator qualifies as PA.

Scorpion Leader · Wed Apr 01, 2009 3:05 pm

Bumer about the Modat and the Centaur, but i still argue the Centaur is not a true veritech and it would conflict namoculture by calling it CHT-1 and not VHT-1 if it were considered a Full Veritech seeing it came before the Spartas. Also to be a true veritech you have to transform into a humanoid/battloid form (have to have hands,arms,legs,feet,etc.not concave bird legs like in guardian mode) This is according to the Offical write up about the VF-8 Logan on the Offical Robotech WEB Site.

Has anyone else noticed that the TC Forrest special forces MOS and that of the Guerilla warfare specialist Military Mos are almost identical. Why? Why do you need two Mos' that are the samething when one will do?

Why does the Damage Control specialist of SC seem more skilled than The one presented in Shadow Chronicles. (ie.paramedic vs. first aid skill to start)

Why in Shadow Chronicles and SC the Med. Officer and Feild Medic are MDs. Not everyone is an MD some are regular Paramedics and nurses. my father was a feild medic in the air force and he's not an MD. what would be a Nurse MOS' skills?
This is one point of realism i wish was addressed better in the game. I don't like to get bog down in ultra realism and make a fun rpg into an almost military simulation, becuase thats not what the game is about,its about having fun!! But come on now, it doesn't matter how high tech the setting not everyone is a doc!! yes i do know SC has a regular Paramedic Mos but that is mainly for the Civil Defense Core and not the Regular Military.

Why wasn't the SERE Mos just called a Para-rescuer/Para-rescue Jumper(PJ) and just add the parachute skill? thats what it is!! Don't know they didn't have this MOS in the Macross and the Shadow Chronicles Settings ethier its an important and useful one!!

Drakenred®™© · Wed Apr 01, 2009 6:56 pm

Rabid Southern Cross Fan wrote:
nathan wrote:.

Different interpretation of the same material. Sadly, unless someone can contact the Studio Ammonite designers we won't know for certain what was intended and what was not.

Actualy several people have. the problem is that all of that was created so long ago that most of the people who worked on it were not sure what was suposed to be what.(some of them were literaly suposed to be little more than armored waldoes)

Rabid Southern Cross Fan · Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:37 pm

Drakenred®™© wrote:Actualy several people have. the problem is that all of that was created so long ago that most of the people who worked on it were not sure what was suposed to be what.(some of them were literaly suposed to be little more than armored waldoes)

Would be the first I've heard of this. Can you confirm it with a post, or the like?

tgunner91 · Unread post by **tgunner91** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:53 pm

There is an error for the range for LRC-220 Rail Gun on the Tristar. It's on page 163. The range in the atmosphere is listed as being 10 miles (1.6 km). 10 miles is a lot more than 1.6 klicks! Looks like a typo.

By the way, why do Earth warships have such short ranged weapons??? The Masters and the Zentraedi have ranges in the thousands of miles in space whereas the UEDF ships can only be rated in maybe 10's of miles? Does the UEDF have such wreched targeting systems?

tgunner91 · Unread post by **tgunner91** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:11 pm

There is an error for the range for LRC-220 Rail Gun on the Tristar. It's on page 163. The range in the atmosphere is listed as being 10 miles (1.6 km). 10 miles is a lot more than 1.6 klicks! Looks like a typo.

By the way, why do Earth warships have such short ranged weapons??? The Masters and the Zentraedi have ranges in the thousands of miles in space whereas the UEDF ships can only be rated in maybe 10's of miles? Does the UEDF have such wreched targeting systems?

Colonel Wolfe · Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:32 pm

tgunner91 wrote:There is an error for the range for LRC-220 Rail Gun on the Tristar. It's on page 163. The range in the atmosphere is listed as being 10 miles (1.6 km). 10 miles is a lot more than 1.6 klicks! Looks like a typo.

1 mile is about 1.6 km.....

Drakenred®™© · Thu Apr 02, 2009 1:43 am

Rabid Southern Cross Fan wrote:
Drakenred®™© wrote:Actualy several people have. the problem is that all of that was created so long ago that most of the people who worked on it were not sure what was suposed to be what.(some of them were literaly suposed to be little more than armored waldoes)

Would be the first I've heard of this. Can you confirm it with a post, or the like?

the part about the SC creators not being sure (after all this time) what exactly was what or why they did some of what they did was on one of the Podcasts a while back.

the waldo coment was my interpritation of what was on some of the art sheets that I have seen.

however given that you cant realy be sure of the scale on a lot of things you could argue it either way. and since often you have art of 2-3 diferent things on the same page its ok what is THIS refering to. the one on the left or right.

AzathothXy · Unread post by **AzathothXy** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 3:06 am

The Jungle MOS for the TC is missing. Or is it suppose to be the same as the forest MOS?

Lt. Holmes · Unread post by **Lt. Holmes** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:05 am

Is it just me or are the descriptions of the ASC body armour lacking decent pictures for all the variations? The styleized armours is one of the hallmarks of the middle chapter of Robotech and definitly sets it apart from parts 1 and 3, and yet that was wholly glossed over in this book. Or am I just that blind?

Scorpion Leader · Fri Apr 03, 2009 10:34 am

the old TC Jungle Squad mos is now the TC Marsh mos.