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Ryoma Nagare wrote:Let's say I want to make a globe of daylight permanent, how to I attach the Permanence ward to the spell? Do I hold it into the globe and they fuse with each other?

Same question with other spells (force field types for example).

You just put the ward on an object, magically linking it with the spell.

Since Globe of Daylight is mentally controlled by the caster, the permanence ward should probably be done on the caster.

Ryoma Nagare wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:You just put the ward on an object, magically linking it with the spell.

Really? Is that specified somewhere?

PFRPGII, p. 132

The ward symbol must be carved from the bone of a dragon, demon, devil, godling, or god and combined with an area affect ward. Once activated, the ward is permanently affixed to that item or place and the entire ward phrase is indestructable and makes whatever other magic effect, be it caused by a ward, circle, magic curse or magic spell, permanent and always active in the immediate area around the ward!

For spells that have a target, the ward has to be on the target (like when warding spells that are cast on people), but when there is no target you just stick the ward on something handy near (or exactly) where you want the spell effect to be.

With Globe of Daylight, the globe would have to stay within a certain distance of the ward, and would just float or sit in one spot unless the caster of the spell moved it.

Ryoma Nagare wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:For spells that have a target, the ward has to be on the target (like when warding spells that are cast on people), but when there is no target you just stick the ward on something handy near (or exactly) where you want the spell effect to be.

With Globe of Daylight, the globe would have to stay within a certain distance of the ward, and would just float or sit in one spot unless the caster of the spell moved it.

Thanks. Hmm... that would make a nice defense mechanism for villages/smaller towns against vampires. Just set up permanent globes around the village and you can walk the streets without worry at night.

You forgot about my Human Minions.

Oh, and Ryoma??

Those fading marks on your neck aren't just love-bites that your GF gave you. Very soon, a rather Pale Man will be showing up at your house with a very detailed series of instructions.

I'll not tell you what those instructions are right now, and they're nothing that will hurt you (much), but it involves a Goat, a Jelly Donut, Cheez Whiz, Baby Oil, Cool Whip, and a Digital Camera with broadband access to the Internet.

See you soon.

Ryoma Nagare wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:For spells that have a target, the ward has to be on the target (like when warding spells that are cast on people), but when there is no target you just stick the ward on something handy near (or exactly) where you want the spell effect to be.

With Globe of Daylight, the globe would have to stay within a certain distance of the ward, and would just float or sit in one spot unless the caster of the spell moved it.

Thanks. Hmm... that would make a nice defense mechanism for villages/smaller towns against vampires. Just set up permanent globes around the village and you can walk the streets without worry at night.

Demon bone is 7000 Gold per ounce... and you probably need 1-2 ounces to carve a permanancy ward (120 hours of labor for the diabolist) as they do have to be at least an inch or more in all dimensions and bone is pretty dense so even a small hunk is gonna weigh an ounce.

That said its a possibility that a village could kill a demon and put to use the bone protecting the place with permanent GoD But with the value for demon bone so high and the carving of a permanency ward so time consuming it would probably be better use to sell the demon bone, use the $ to hire guards and maybe equip a few of these with permanent GoD amulets.

How the hell can a "small village" possibly afford something like that?

Thinyser wrote:

Ryoma Nagare wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:For spells that have a target, the ward has to be on the target (like when warding spells that are cast on people), but when there is no target you just stick the ward on something handy near (or exactly) where you want the spell effect to be.

With Globe of Daylight, the globe would have to stay within a certain distance of the ward, and would just float or sit in one spot unless the caster of the spell moved it.

Thanks. Hmm... that would make a nice defense mechanism for villages/smaller towns against vampires. Just set up permanent globes around the village and you can walk the streets without worry at night.

Demon bone is 7000 Gold per ounce... and you probably need 1-2 ounces to carve a permanancy ward (120 hours of labor for the diabolist) as they do have to be at least an inch or more in all dimensions and bone is pretty dense so even a small hunk is gonna weigh an ounce.

That said its a possibility that a village could kill a demon and put to use the bone protecting the place with permanent GoD But with the value for demon bone so high and the carving of a permanency ward so time consuming it would probably be better use to sell the demon bone, use the $ to hire guards and maybe equip a few of these with permanent GoD amulets.

If they have a buyer for the bone, yes.
If they don't have much trade with other communities, and/or don't trust outsiders to protect them, it could happen.
Religion/tradition could also play a part. Maybe one guy once killed a demon for that village and saved the bones. Later, as a memorial/celebration, a summoner created a decorative Globe of Daylight from part of the bones.
Then, every year (or three, or five, or ten), they'd have a big celebration and add another globe, using another slice of the original demon bone collection (which would be too valuable to the community to sell, but not to use).

It's not an idea that would commonly occur, but there's any number of ways in which it could happen.

Killer Cyborg wrote:

Thinyser wrote:

Ryoma Nagare wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:For spells that have a target, the ward has to be on the target (like when warding spells that are cast on people), but when there is no target you just stick the ward on something handy near (or exactly) where you want the spell effect to be.

With Globe of Daylight, the globe would have to stay within a certain distance of the ward, and would just float or sit in one spot unless the caster of the spell moved it.

Thanks. Hmm... that would make a nice defense mechanism for villages/smaller towns against vampires. Just set up permanent globes around the village and you can walk the streets without worry at night.

Demon bone is 7000 Gold per ounce... and you probably need 1-2 ounces to carve a permanancy ward (120 hours of labor for the diabolist) as they do have to be at least an inch or more in all dimensions and bone is pretty dense so even a small hunk is gonna weigh an ounce.

That said its a possibility that a village could kill a demon and put to use the bone protecting the place with permanent GoD But with the value for demon bone so high and the carving of a permanency ward so time consuming it would probably be better use to sell the demon bone, use the $ to hire guards and maybe equip a few of these with permanent GoD amulets.

If they have a buyer for the bone, yes.
If they don't have much trade with other communities, and/or don't trust outsiders to protect them, it could happen.
Religion/tradition could also play a part. Maybe one guy once killed a demon for that village and saved the bones. Later, as a memorial/celebration, a summoner created a decorative Globe of Daylight from part of the bones.
Then, every year (or three, or five, or ten), they'd have a big celebration and add another globe, using another slice of the original demon bone collection (which would be too valuable to the community to sell, but not to use).

It's not an idea that would commonly occur, but there's any number of ways in which it could happen.

I said it was a possiblity...

Thinyser wrote:I said it was a possiblity...

And you were right.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:How the hell can a "small village" possibly afford something like that?

They probably can't. But many adventurers can make a good sum of money looting hordes.

For example, in one RPG, I had a character who helped create TW-globe of daylight light posts for a small village. They couldn't afford it, but my character could because of certain acquirements. He does it in the village because it's the place his family lived and farm, and where all his friends and their families live.

With the way some deevils and demons (and lesser ones at that) can regenerate limbs, I'm actually not sure why their bones are so expensive. Artificial scarcity?

Tor wrote:With the way some deevils and demons (and lesser ones at that) can regenerate limbs, I'm actually not sure why their bones are so expensive. Artificial scarcity?

I believe one of the newer books states that there is only a small % chance that demon/deevil remains stay on the plane of existence where they were killed most of the time they teleport back to their home dimension upon death. This may also apply to severed limbs I guess.

I'm trying to remember... aren't there some Necromancer spells that allow the shaping of bone?

Imagine one of those in the hands of an alchemist. All he needs is demon, deevil, or dragon bone (I'd say any sufficiently powerful Supernatural or Creature of Magic would work... but sufficiently powerful is a pretty big hurdle).

Mark Hall wrote:I'm trying to remember... aren't there some Necromancer spells that allow the shaping of bone?

Imagine one of those in the hands of an alchemist. All he needs is demon, deevil, or dragon bone (I'd say any sufficiently powerful Supernatural or Creature of Magic would work... but sufficiently powerful is a pretty big hurdle).

And where are you heading with this? So the Alchemist can shape bone like a necromancer.... then what?

Thinyser wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:I'm trying to remember... aren't there some Necromancer spells that allow the shaping of bone?

Imagine one of those in the hands of an alchemist. All he needs is demon, deevil, or dragon bone (I'd say any sufficiently powerful Supernatural or Creature of Magic would work... but sufficiently powerful is a pretty big hurdle).

And where are you heading with this? So the Alchemist can shape bone like a necromancer.... then what?

Well, since an Alchemist is both a Wizard (6th+), and a Diabolist (6th+), being able to flawlessly shape bone with a necromancer spell would make creating a Permanence Ward very fast and much lower in risk (i.e. less likely to screw up and ruin your demon bone).

Mark Hall wrote:

Thinyser wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:I'm trying to remember... aren't there some Necromancer spells that allow the shaping of bone?

Imagine one of those in the hands of an alchemist. All he needs is demon, deevil, or dragon bone (I'd say any sufficiently powerful Supernatural or Creature of Magic would work... but sufficiently powerful is a pretty big hurdle).

And where are you heading with this? So the Alchemist can shape bone like a necromancer.... then what?

Well, since an Alchemist is both a Wizard (6th+), and a Diabolist (6th+), being able to flawlessly shape bone with a necromancer spell would make creating a Permanence Ward very fast and much lower in risk (i.e. less likely to screw up and ruin your demon bone).

Assuming of course that the insanely long carving times are not an actual necessity. The carve times could be a simple materials issue, and subject to such, or they may be a required component of the creation of the ward.
This though could explain one of the tricks Alchemists use though in their magic item creation....

Mark Hall wrote:

Thinyser wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:I'm trying to remember... aren't there some Necromancer spells that allow the shaping of bone?

Imagine one of those in the hands of an alchemist. All he needs is demon, deevil, or dragon bone (I'd say any sufficiently powerful Supernatural or Creature of Magic would work... but sufficiently powerful is a pretty big hurdle).

And where are you heading with this? So the Alchemist can shape bone like a necromancer.... then what?

Well, since an Alchemist is both a Wizard (6th+), and a Diabolist (6th+), being able to flawlessly shape bone with a necromancer spell would make creating a Permanence Ward very fast and much lower in risk (i.e. less likely to screw up and ruin your demon bone).

Ok got it. Thought you were going somewhere else besides streamlining the permanency ward creation process.

A more interesting application of necromancy might be the manipulation of indestructible parchment, since it's just dried animal skins.

Thinyser wrote:I believe one of the newer books states that there is only a small % chance that demon/deevil remains stay on the plane of existence where they were killed most of the time they teleport back to their home dimension upon death. This may also apply to severed limbs I guess.

Those new rules only apply to death, and kinda conflict with Rifts Africa discussing how necros can attach demon claws to their arms or merge with the skulls of greater demons or demon lords. Although removing a skull while keeping a creature alive is tricky business. Not impossible though, considering demons.

Thinyser wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:

Thinyser wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:I'm trying to remember... aren't there some Necromancer spells that allow the shaping of bone?

Imagine one of those in the hands of an alchemist. All he needs is demon, deevil, or dragon bone (I'd say any sufficiently powerful Supernatural or Creature of Magic would work... but sufficiently powerful is a pretty big hurdle).

And where are you heading with this? So the Alchemist can shape bone like a necromancer.... then what?

Well, since an Alchemist is both a Wizard (6th+), and a Diabolist (6th+), being able to flawlessly shape bone with a necromancer spell would make creating a Permanence Ward very fast and much lower in risk (i.e. less likely to screw up and ruin your demon bone).

Ok got it. Thought you were going somewhere else besides streamlining the permanency ward creation process.

Nah, I just don't complete thoughts while at work.

Mark Hall wrote:
Nah, I just don't complete thoughts while at work.

Just so long as your employer doesn't find out!