US or FQ

[glitterboy2098]

the united states developed the USA-G10 Chromium Guardsman sometime in the 2080's.

in 2098, the great cataclysm occured. NEMA troops used the Chrome Guardsman in great numbers to combat the supernatural creatures from the rifts.

post-rifts Free Quebec discovered a pre-rifts factory capable of producing the USA-G10, which by that time had become known as the "Glitterboy".


so to answer your question...The United states developed it, and then 300 years later Free Quebec rediscovered how to make them.

[The Galactus Kid]

the united states developed the USA-G10 Chromium Guardsman sometime in the 2080's.

in 2098, the great cataclysm occured. NEMA troops used the Chrome Guardsman in great numbers to combat the supernatural creatures from the rifts.

post-rifts Free Quebec discovered a pre-rifts factory capable of producing the USA-G10, which by that time had become known as the "Glitterboy".


so to answer your question...The United states developed it, and then 300 years later Free Quebec rediscovered how to make them.

The US created it. Free Quebec made it an art.

[Colt47]

Yes, they made it an art so we can have glitter boobies!

[Ale Golem]

Putting **** on a glitterboy and calling it a glittergirl isn't art past the 6th grade.

But I do like their gun. Speaking of Glitter Girls, do any exist outside of Quebec?

[Balabanto]

Then suck it up. Because they do. Triax sells them to England, France, and other European Locations as long as they won't be used against Triax. Read the England Book Closely. Hell, Triax sells it's weapons in the New West. They sell the Robots, the Particle Beam guns, and all that other stuff. You didn't think a Nation Sized Corporation wouldn't have ways of doing this? Get real!

Take a look at Gwen Severenson's estate.

Based on that? When my PC's want a Triax weapon? I tell them...no problem! Pay and it's yours! Triax wants your money so they can have new R+D to fight Gargoyles and Brodkil with. I honestly think they don't care about any D-Bees as long as they're not within a distance of more than 500 miles. If you want to go there, they'll say 'BLEEP you'. But it is important to remember that even though Triax is a governing body, it is still a governing body that is run not by the rules of Governments, but by the rules of Milton Friedman. For those unfamiliar with those rules, here they are.

1) Corporations are amoral.

2) Corporations have no social duty. This means they have no responsibility to anyone in any moral capacity. Sink or swim on your own.

3) A corporation only has responsibility to it's shareholders. Literally, this is the reason why Triax doesn't allow D-Bees within it's borders and only nominally protects them. It is too difficult to have investments from beings outside the corporate system, and therefore, they can't allow just anyone to buy stock in Triax, or their corporate government system will collapse. The corporation is effectively surrounded by beings and groups that are hostile to it's institutionality.

4) Furthermore, it isn't POSSIBLE, according to Friedman, to have a moral corporation. What this means is that the corporation always acts in it's own best interest regardless of what other governments, peoples, or groups might desire.


What this means:

Gargoyles, Brodkil, and other demons and subdemons don't believe in the values of the corporation. Therefore, war is the only answer the corporation can respond with. Surprisingly, the corporation wants peace, but the Gargoyles and Brodkil won't quit, and Triax doesn't believe they can own stock shares responsibly, the Gargoyles must be eliminated. Evil Millennium Tree in the Black Forest? Same thing. These people cannot be trusted by ANY means to be responsible shareholders of Triax stock, and the corporation, therefore, can't be allowed to act in the interest of outsiders.

Triax aren't human supremacists in the classic sense. They want proof that an individual can be a responsible Triax shareholder, which is why many D-Bees are "Second Class Citizens." It takes a very long time for Triax to recognize that a shareholder is responsible.

Corporations are amoral. Triax may look human supremacist, but really, they're just a very large amoral corporation.

[Balabanto]

Read New West. You are reading INTO the text, rather than reading it. If you can find a better way to justify Gwen Severenson's ridiculous army of Triax robots and equipment, I'm all ears.

I've read the Triax book a lot. All corporations have shareholders. Otherwise, there IS NO CORPORATION. YOU CANNOT HAVE A CORPORATION WITH NO SHAREHOLDERS. OTHERWISE, TRIAX CANNOT EXIST!

In order to HAVE a corporation like Triax, you MUST, repeat, MUST have at least one "Shareholder." Since the corporation is not a single entity, it HAS SHAREHOLDERS. IF IT HAS NO SHAREHOLDERS, IT IS NOT A CORPORATION. TRIAX IS NOT...REPEAT NOT...A Socialist entity.

Unless Triax has NO board of directors, which I severely doubt, it works the same way other corporations do. People in the NGR army get shares of Triax in lieu of payment in full and part of their salary. This goes into a "Fund" that is separated from their taxes. You've probably never worked for a corporation, which is my actual guess here. Corporations work under a very screwball set of rules. It's just an amoral corporation.

NGR, which registers the government, can try to "NATIONALIZE" Triax. But the chances of this ACTUALLY working are slim, since Triax can withdraw EVERY SINGLE DROP OF FUNDING FROM THE GOVERNMENT IF THEY SO CHOOSE.

They won't, because they're a corporation, but the primary goal of a government is to govern. The primary goal of Triax is to MAKE AS MUCH MONEY AS POSSIBLE. If this is good for the government, then great, but if not, so what? They'll just move. They're a corporation. They don't care. The moment that NGR starts losing significantly, Triax will bail. They're not sympathetic by any means of the imagination.

You really have no concept of how corporations work. Triax is an entity which is based on amorality. Their items have black market costs. Therefore, they will sell them to anyone who meets their price. England has hundreds of Triax Glitter Boys. Read it. They're effectively owned by only one city, but somehow, that money had to come from somewhere.

[Balabanto]

Let me respond to you only, Chaotic, since your argument is reasonable. The corporation realizes fully that there are other places they can get supplies. Those supplies will just be more expensive. Truthfully, it would be easier to get what they need from Russia than it would be to ship it from the Coalition States. The problem is that this route is only available four months a year and requires excessive amounts of diplomacy to get what they need.

Crossing Territory of 3 or 4 warlords to get to the Ocean rather than crossing the Atlantic in a Death's Head transport. The problem is logistics. If you can beat the logistics on this, you can IGNORE the Coalition.

The truth is, the Coalition probably knows about the Triax armaments and Glitter Boys elsewhere, it's just that they want to wait until their position is more secure to do something about it.

In fact, everything you've said really just supports my point.

The Corporation acts ONLY in it's own interest. NOT in the interest of the NGR. In the interest of itself. They don't NEED to make an argument about infrastructure support. It WAS a decision of greed. They could take less profit, or they could have NO profit. That's not a survival mechanism, that's the profit motive.

The long and the short of it is that this stuff has already BEEN sold, unless you're going to fall back on "England sucks and New West is Munchkin."

So really, the Coalition SHOULD be nervous, because the Coalition declaring War on Triax is a colossal joke. Triax might not be sure about the Gargoyle Empire, but if they actually threw down with the Coalition, it would be over in two weeks.

I'm just telling you folks flat out that almost everything Triax has is for sale, and that they DO sell these supposedly unsellable items, because NPCS already own them.

[AzathothXy]

Let's see, Sivereno has:
14 X-10 Predators
8 X-500 Foragers
144 DV-12 Dyna-Bots

All of which were legally on the market and approved bu the CS. The Dyna-Bots were probably sold as labor units, then had combat programs installed by Silvereno. Later the CS asked them to stop selling the Preds, and they did. Silvereno is a boomtown, so they have lots of resources. All of these sales were most likely above board.
It doesn't illustrate Triax's 'alleged' underhanded dealings.

Triax and the NGR government are almost the same entity. High ranking politicians and military officers also sit on Triax's board of directors. So Triax obeys all NGR laws and treaties.

[Balabanto]

Mayor Severenson has 24 PERSONAL Triax DV 12 Dynabots

The militia HQ has 120 MORE Dynabots, 10 Predator Power Armor, 6 Triax X-500 Forager Battlebots.

The Sheriff's office has 10 MORE PRedator Power Armor, and 2 more X-500's.

If I were the Coalition, I would already be spitting up my groin muscles.

Now let's move on to England...

Bath...

100 Power Armor, Mostly Triax, including 24 Ultimax!

Yes, they do sell them!

Ireland...

Dublin...I refuse to list these numbers...it's TONS...

Triax will sell to ANYONE who bears their market price.

[AzathothXy]

As for England and Ireland, there is no government banning Triax from selling their wares. If there was a lawful government opposed to the sale, Triax has shown a willingness to stop selling products.
Triax and the NGR(the same thing) needs allies more than it needs money.

[AzathothXy]

And yet I must repeat the question because no one answered it.

Is this some update on the New West book because the one I'm looking at right now has no mention of Triax with Silvereno or Gwen at all.

So is this a new version of New West to go along with the latest rule book? Because once more I must reiterate that there is no mention of Triax whatsoever in the New West book that I could find.

No. I have the first printing. In the Places of Note section, look at numbers 2,3 and 4.

[The Baron of chaos]

I think you guys are missing many points.

First off you have a confusing concept about money. Money/credits is just a measure unit, a simbol that reflect some real life resources( land, livestock, mineral resources, knowledge ) Triax want money in this sense.
Second Triax come first , NGR later. NGR is the result of the TRIAX realizing they were THE power of the area and being joined and assimilating, all the other tiny human kingdom of the germanic area. NGR laws reflect TRIAX law, and the tow are so strictly bonded that they are pretty much the same thing
Third TRIAX is an example of the weird social development caused by Rifts Catalcysm. Is a corporation, but who had develped into an independent society, and for some time actually WAS an isolated independent society. Try to imagine if the rule/code of conduit of your job place suddenly become the LAW(imagine Microsoft as a sovereign nation). Sure some common laws were preserved(like homicide is crime, rape is wrong etc.), still TRIAX devloped a peculiar corporative view of their society(better for you to not infrange TRIAX copyright, I suspect is punishable with death), that somehow worked. When NGR was born, this rules were kept, making it very similar to those Cyberpunk Corporative Dystopia, excpet tha there seem to work, perhaps due the costant supernatural menace.
Fourth while TRIAX want allies, and sincerely admire Coalition, probably due good PR of Joseph Prosek Jr., still is unwilling to put a restrain to their marketing, mostly because being allied does not necessary translate in "i've to do whatever you say". TRIAX is ok in lmiting the selling of some of its most dangerous products, but they are smart enough to find some "escape" for this. After all New West, is not EXACTLY part of the coalition. And this is jus tone of the few logical Loophole they find to justify their actions. Coalition for now cannot do much rather than make offical reprimand, as Coalition too need allies, and they know that an open conflict with TRIAX won't be productive or helpful in any way. They will wait till they got more stronger to re-define their allaince terms.

On Side note, other than FQ, TRIAX, amongst producer of Glitter Boys we can enlist the Rifts Space Colonies, South America, the Republicans(and this means ARCHIE can build them too, if he want), and a secret retailer, possibly the black market, (who control Area 51 secret base and factory)

[The Galactus Kid]

Wait for Triax 2. All will be explained (hopefully).

[The Galactus Kid]

Wait for Triax 2. All will be explained (hopefully).

Yeah, should only take another 3-4 years or so given the usual Palladium speed from submitted manuscript to final product.

Hopefully, 3rd or 4th quarter '09.

[ZorValachan]

Wait for Triax 2. All will be explained (hopefully).

Yeah, should only take another 3-4 years or so given the usual Palladium speed from submitted manuscript to final product.

Hopefully, 3rd or 4th quarter '09.

Wait till '15. Pepe's little brother Phillip is sick and needs Palladium's 'help'

[Blight]

I'm sure The Galactus Kid will have gone more into this, But I always thought that triax was just a dummy corporation used by the NGR to fund there war? Triax is the NGR the NGR is Triax.

[The Galactus Kid]

I'm sure The Galactus Kid will have gone more into this, But I always thought that triax was just a dummy corporation used by the NGR to fund there war? Triax is the NGR the NGR is Triax.

No. The two are very distinct seperate entities. WB 5 is clear in this, and Taylor White and I did nothing to change that, but we did flesh them both out.

[The Baron of chaos]

Well Triax come first and then come NGR. While strictly bonded, on almost symbiotic level they are effectively two distint separate being

[Cybermancer]

I'm sure The Galactus Kid will have gone more into this, But I always thought that triax was just a dummy corporation used by the NGR to fund there war? Triax is the NGR the NGR is Triax.

No. The two are very distinct seperate entities. WB 5 is clear in this, and Taylor White and I did nothing to change that, but we did flesh them both out.

Good. I'm looking forward to seeing it. I'd like to see it in the timeline you suggested but I'm not going to get my hopes up as yet.

The NGR and Triax has always been among my favorite settings and plus, there's tons and tons of toys to play with. Please tell me that there will tons and tons more toys to play with... even if you have to lie to me.

[The Galactus Kid]

I'm sure The Galactus Kid will have gone more into this, But I always thought that triax was just a dummy corporation used by the NGR to fund there war? Triax is the NGR the NGR is Triax.

No. The two are very distinct seperate entities. WB 5 is clear in this, and Taylor White and I did nothing to change that, but we did flesh them both out.

Good. I'm looking forward to seeing it. I'd like to see it in the timeline you suggested but I'm not going to get my hopes up as yet.

The NGR and Triax has always been among my favorite settings and plus, there's tons and tons of toys to play with. Please tell me that there will tons and tons more toys to play with... even if you have to lie to me.

Due to the NDA, I can only tell you that TRIAX is an awesome company that produces almost EVERYTHING in the NGR. As for the release date, I'm hoping for an '09 release, but sometimes things happen.

[Wildfire]

Wait for Triax 2. All will be explained (hopefully).

Yeah, should only take another 3-4 years or so given the usual Palladium speed from submitted manuscript to final product.

Hopefully, 3rd or 4th quarter '09.

2109 that is

[Balabanto]

Fine, I'll answer his question, even though the answer is self explanatory.

Free Quebec did NOT give Triax the ability to make Glitter Boys. Triax did all that on their own. They reconfigured the design into something more to their liking. Triax Glitterboys are completely different. Read the book. Look at the stats.

Free Quebec may have more types of Glitterboys, but that does not make Free Quebec the sole purveyor of Glitterboys on Rifts Earth. South America has several GB factory complexes, as does Japan.

[NMI]

Chill out!

[Balabanto]

Triax got the plans from Free Quebec. Yes. But that GB is totally different, and Triax is under no obligation to do anything that Free Quebec wants with it. At no point does anything you say, Alejandro, contradict a word about how Triax behaves towards it's competitors. Free Quebec is a nation state. Triax is a BUSINESS. Corporations are amoral. If Triax wants to remain in business, it will sell Glitter Boys. The Corporation really has no choice. I hate to quote Milton Friedman over and over again, but it's the only thing that makes sense given what we already know.

[Dustin Fireblade]

If Triax wants to remain in business, it will sell Glitter Boys.

No they won't. Each robot, cyborg and power armor design listed in WB5 also has a line that says either it is "Exclusive to the NGR Military" or "Part of the NGR Military"

The Glitter Boy, for example, is exclusive to the NGR and Free Quebec.

Items that are a "Part of the NGR Military" are allowed to be sold outside of the NGR. WB5 page 21 says that Triax has and does sell to predominately human communities.

[Balabanto]

Obviously, Dustin, you are not familiar with the automobile business. I sold cars for five weeks. Anything that involves selling vehicles, etc, is the most corrupt, dishonest, unethical practice you can imagine. Now, in my HOME game, I have a rule that says "Triax does not like to ship anything larger than a human over long distances, because it is cost-prohibitive." But you give the Triax human supremacy stuff way too much credit. They don't care about what goes on outside their borders. It's been their policy for over a hundred years. And the further away from them it is, the less it has an effect on their policies, efforts, and ability to defend itself.

Coalition Officer: We killed these eight D-bees in the Wilderness. Is this your military equipment?

Triax Representative: Yes.

Coalition Officer: How did it get there?

Triax Representative: The Corporation of Triax is not psychic. Nor is it written into our political agreement that we must track and trace every single piece of technology that we sell. Triax does not, cannot, and will not invest the time, money, and energy to such an unprofitable enterprise. If you would like, your military units can keep the weapons. Spoils of war, after all.

Coalition Officer: This is outrageous! The High Command will hear of it.

Triax Representative: Of course they will, and they know the terms of their agreement better than you. If using the weapons that you have acquired is a problem for you, and converting them to standard E-clips is too expensive, we are willing to offer you four FSE-clips per unit at a ten percent discount.

Coalition Officer: Your offer is noted. I will contact my superiors. (Leaves in a huff)

Triax Representative, on a cell phone: Call Gunther, tell him he needs to move his operation. Matthias will be taking over that sector. Oh, yes, and step up production of FSE clips for delivery to the Coalition. I think they'll be needing them soon.

This is how weapons dealers work. Alliances or no, just because you have an alliance with someone doesn't mean you won't sell your equipment to the opposition. Look at the USA. We sold military equipment to the Taliban, and now we have to fight them! Really, this is not unbelievable that they would sell military equipment that's "Exclusive to the NGR Military" under the table when they can get away with it. The words "Business" and "Ethics" are opposites.

[Balabanto]

Right. That's enough. If you're so smart, tell me how the world works.

You're obviously a supra-genius with more intelligence than everyone else in the world, so why don't you lay it on the line and prove it. Put your money where your mouth is. Clearly you have the greatest analytical skills in the world, and are superior not only to Milton Friedman, John Maynard Keynes, and most of the world's great economists, but also Stephen Hawking, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, and Abraham Lincoln, some of the world's greatest scientists and politicians.

By the way, I will not respond to whatever it is that you post. I just want to see what you have to say. Everything you say is designed to bait people, offend them, and be rude to them. It's really exceptionally offensive, and you should consider taking a few classes in manners. When people get talked down to, they respond negatively. When people are disrespected, they don't respond with positive thoughts.

The truth is, you have some very hard opinions about some very sticky political situations, and you're unwilling to bend on anything or make compromises. I don't know what made you such a mean and unpleasant person to be around, but truth be told, you need to get some help, or some medication.

[runebeo]

If Triax wants to remain in business, it will sell Glitter Boys.

No they won't. Each robot, cyborg and power armor design listed in WB5 also has a line that says either it is "Exclusive to the NGR Military" or "Part of the NGR Military"

The Glitter Boy, for example, is exclusive to the NGR and Free Quebec.

Items that are a "Part of the NGR Military" are allowed to be sold outside of the NGR. WB5 page 21 says that Triax has and does sell to predominately human communities.

I agree with you! You don't see today's nation opening sell nuclear weapons to anyone and a Glitter Boy would treated be as such by Free Quebec, NGR, Japan and South American nations, only Archie leaves GBs around to be found by human adventures and he does not sell them on the open market. The Black Market is your best hope to purchase one and they go fast when they acquire them, plus their usually not in the best condition when they get them. Anyone dealing in GBs is going to draw angry attention from all the nations who hear about it.

[Dustin Fireblade]

Anything that involves selling vehicles, etc, is the most corrupt, dishonest, unethical practice you can imagine.

This is how weapons dealers work. Alliances or no, just because you have an alliance with someone doesn't mean you won't sell your equipment to the opposition. Look at the USA. We sold military equipment to the Taliban, and now we have to fight them! Really, this is not unbelievable that they would sell military equipment that's "Exclusive to the NGR Military" under the table when they can get away with it. The words "Business" and "Ethics" are opposites.

Right.

Call Lockheed-Martin, tell them it's ok to sell the F-22 to anyone with the dollar's now.

[NMI]

Locked since certain people (and you know who you are) can not behave.