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So I know that super powers and psionics or magic can never be had by the same character. (never cross the beams!) But for this little postualation, let's pretend they do.

So you have a mage/multiple beings selves mutant.

When Prime breaks off Beta, Gamma, Delta, and Epsilon, they have full ISP and/or PPE. The clones expend all their PPE/ISP, and get subsumed back into Prime. When Beta, Gamma, Delta, and Epsilon are reformed, do they have PPE/ISP?

If Prime never casts a spell or uses psionics, the PPE/ISP pool stays full. So the originator keeps the full power, to duplicate from. Which creates an interesting paradox.

Either each time they "break off" they halfsy the PPE/ISP reserve, and have to meditate/sleep to regain the "missing" PPE/ISP, which makes the most sense, but seems counterintuitive to the Multiple Beings/Selves power.

Or they appear identical. And you can do some major wicked things with PPE/ISP doubling.

Say you make identical clones, and can have up to four clones, and you have the psionic abilities of Restore PPE/ISP. Create Beta, Gamma, Delta, and Epsilon. All four give Prime their full PPE/ISP power. Then get subsumed.

So now Prime has approximately 5 times the normal PPE/ISP. Repeat procedure. Within the PE x minutes limit. So you're basically building at a geometric pace. Which seems really munchy.

So that's the first huh? moment.

Second one is, tasks that take permanent PPE or ISP or ME or PE or whatever else. They're so grueling and nasty that you lose a little bit of yourself...

What happens if Beta does it?

Clearly the clone has the ability. So it can carry out the task with proficiency. Then the clone gets subsumed.

And instantly re-created, with the full identical attributes as the creator.

Again, I'd have to say that it should somehow effect the "base" life/essence that the clone sprung from. But... At the time of this grueling experience, the clone was a seperate entity.

Interesting interesting.

~A

How does that power handle HP and SDC? Handling ISP and PPE the same way seems like it'd make sense.
As for permanent PPE/ISP/ME/PE costing abilities, I'd say that that dupe is permanently minus whatever that penalty is.

AaronCE wrote:So I know that super powers and psionics or magic can never be had by the same character. (never cross the beams!) But for this little postualation, let's pretend they do.

There are plenty of character creation options where super powers and either psionics or magic can be had by the same character. Mutants, for example, can have a mix of superpowers and psionics.

Just as an FYI i know there is a certain class (the immortal from Powers 2) that can potentially have both super powers and either psionics or magic spells. I believe certain varieties of mutant can have powers and Psi abilities as well.

In this case, specifically in regard to the interaction of multiple beings and an energy pool? i'd say that the clones lack any PPE/ISP to start with; Prime (to use your example) would have the entire amount of PPE/ISP, and any duplicates would have to obtain PPE/ISP the old fashioned way since their pools start out empty. As a nice aside this way also fullfills a basic game-balance/sanity check; your pc's aren't essentially just creating mystic energy out of nothing infinitely. It also dove-tails nicely with the fact that the clones are newly formed and haven't had time to absorb/draw/create any mystic energy yet.

On a related note: If the clone is subsumed after gaining PPE/ISP? i'd say they'd keep that amount when they are next summoned, just like they first start out naked but get to come back with clothes and such if they acquire them later on.

Dumb Dwarf wrote:Not to derail the thread, but I was just having a similar problem with multiple beings. If clone Alpha gets in a car wreck and is maimed (lost limb, organs, or becoming blind for example) When I subsume him, is he completely restored when I pull him out again, or does he maintain his condition.

I'd say the clone is fully restored within 48 hours (as per the power); but if summoned before then still may have the lingering effects of their maiming present.

Now if you mean the original pc with the power (hereafter referred to as 'Prime')? that is a different story. If Prime gets permanently maimed or injured in some fashion, all clones created after that traumatic event will be maimed as well until such time as Prime can be healed or restored in some fashion. They are all 'copies' of him after all.

First off, I was being a little facetious with the original never the super powers-magic-psionics be combined. Just to be a bit silly.

Secondly, yeah, it's a sticky point. 'cause if the clone (Beta) is truly identical, it should be fully "powered" (PPE/ISP). After re-reading HU2, I think I'd go with the 48 hour injury rule. Basically the clones can expend all their PPE/ISP wherever/however, and get subsumed, but if they are recreated within that 48 hour period, their PPE/ISP is basically nil (perhaps 2D6 "residual"). At least for that particular clone slot/level/Beta.

As far as the grueling/nastiness.. Again I'd go with the 48 hour rule. Clearly the clone is just as capable as the master, so I couldn't in good conscience say no you cannot perform a full Mindwipe or Ley Line Resurrection. But then, subsuming the clone would "get around" the permancy of the task. So again, I'd say the clone would be "diminshed" for 48 hours.

A penalty for abusing the let your dupe do the nasty stuff, and then just subsume 'im, could be permanent mental "consequences" for Prime. Whether that be insanty or loss of PPE/ISP, or some other GM-says-so ruling.

Another interesting thing to ponder. When you create clones.. Are you re-creating one clone. I.e. the clone you make at 2nd level, Beta, will always be Beta. (until Beta gets atomized) Or, is it more that you have the ability to create X number of clones. And they're never "the same" clone "slot." Just you have a certain ceiling when it comes to numbers. (until Beta gets atomized, and you have x-1 Betas) This could create interesting wrinkles.

~A

I always just assume that each clone is being created on the spot.

AaronCE wrote:Another interesting thing to ponder. When you create clones.. Are you re-creating one clone. I.e. the clone you make at 2nd level, Beta, will always be Beta. (until Beta gets atomized) Or, is it more that you have the ability to create X number of clones. And they're never "the same" clone "slot." Just you have a certain ceiling when it comes to numbers. (until Beta gets atomized, and you have x-1 Betas) This could create interesting wrinkles.

I play it that each time you summon a clone? you are pulling 'a' specific clone, (ie: your first option) not creating it on the spot. How else do you account for the fact that you can summon them back specifically wearing whatever it is they were when you subsumed them?

Neorealist wrote:

AaronCE wrote:Another interesting thing to ponder. When you create clones.. Are you re-creating one clone. I.e. the clone you make at 2nd level, Beta, will always be Beta. (until Beta gets atomized) Or, is it more that you have the ability to create X number of clones. And they're never "the same" clone "slot." Just you have a certain ceiling when it comes to numbers. (until Beta gets atomized, and you have x-1 Betas) This could create interesting wrinkles.

I play it that each time you summon a clone? you are pulling 'a' specific clone, (ie: your first option) not creating it on the spot. How else do you account for the fact that you can summon them back specifically wearing whatever it is they were when you subsumed them?

???
It's Not a "fact"...
You can't and they Don't!!!

Unless you actually have minor S-power "Bio-Aura" or your GM is nice, your clones are NAKED as per the rules. Logically those cloths would fall off as the clone is absorbed.

As to the following question;

When you create clones.. Are you re-creating one clone

The books never said, but given the 48hr rule it is safe to say that they're the same "Up untill a point"!
PPE, CHI, ISP, BIO-E, Power Touch Points (PTP), Spirita Anima, Patho/Agnst, Peripheral-Essence, Mana, Aho, Gnosis, Blood Pool, Die Pool, LUCK, Arcane, PSI, Quantum Pool, Karma, HP/SDC/MDC and whatever other Crazy expendable but regenerationable Stat nonsence you allow into your games would recover as per normal while merged, up untill the 48hr mark when the Whole clone/Dup is recreated.

On another interesting note , It'd be cool to have this power Just so you can find out what it feels like to loose yer arm or leg as, the clone gets it back in 48hrs, And you get all their experiances w/o the downsides of actually having to go through all of that heck.

Dumb Dwarf wrote:What about the dimensional room power? Do all clones go to the same one, or do they each have their own?

Oddly enough GammaGreen asked/proposed this Very question/consept back in May of '08' on his thread named "Doctor with Dimensional Room" AndBaron of Chaose made a similar combo once.

The issue/problem with a "Single" inter connected room is the potential for Players/Gm's to come up with a cool/creative use of This option, is that you'd be able to use the combo as a "Limited" version of world wide teleportation.
Which many prudish "Anti-rules lawyers" (AKA-"PC Prosecutors") would have a heart attack over this.

Clone A) goes to London
Clone B) goes to Aussy land
Clone C) goes to etc... upto a max of 15 clones (16 if your smart enough to have noticed that all of the EXP charts in All Palladium Game Books actually give you the amount needed to reach Sixteenth LVL-Or am I the only one who noticed that oddity)
Then You, the Real guy can , can open up yer D-Room, Cell a clone of yours to open up "Their D-Rooms" door on their end in 20 seconds, you walk in, shut the door and 5 seconds later the door RE-opens to the smiling face of your clone in Aussyland Down "Unda"... You step out and BLAMBO, teleport/Gateway.

Too many squeemish gits would call this cheating even though it can Also be a major limitation by having ALL your clones being w/o a D-Room of their own... I'd suggets that you and your GM talk it over & Choose which one your gonna go with at character creation and Stick with it.
BOTH have upside and downsides...
A universal swimming pools got some fun creative options
A) Quick fer escapes
B) Easy Transfers of prisoners
C) Helping to get victims of fires, cave-ins, plane crashes (in the air and falling), sinking ships, and what not to safty
D) Ulimate courier! You can use this trick to help get supplies (Food, medicine, water, clothing & blankets, housing materials...etc) to people in needy countries or to those people who've just been in some kind of natural/un-natural dissaster the help they need quickly... Just imagine how Cool and Loved youd've beenas long as your not white by the peeps of Louisiana/New Orleans during Katrina?
Conversly
You could use this for evil (Drug and gun running, Bombings, Bank robberys... etc)
OR
You could make some good money off of this by being a trade supplier of goods and getting them to outlets in insta recored time,
Or as a News caster world wide with Clones in major world hot spots, Or as a cop with a clone in each squad car in yer district you can have him open up doors for swat to come through in real time.
The Armed forces would love your many abilitys her for combat drops... (one man army Also becomes a "one Man" drop and extraction force)...
NASA (assuming they exist in yer game) would LOVE to only need to send One astronaut to the Moon (Mars, Mercury, Triton... Etc.), or to an Orbital (Galatea-lol) space station... there you could help build a city or resupply other astonauts fer cheep (near Zero-cost) to NASA And do it record time-
Your Bill to NASA-(A cool One-Mill and for you to not need to pay taxes... Again ...EverArmagedon)



See, Alotta uses...
BUT... the power is ALSO limited in this way.
Remember that your clones would NOT get recreated fer 48hrs, meaning that with the OTHERWAY you could have all your clones fill up thier storage zones and, if yer careful, even if you suck em up during some bad moment your still good as long as you don't hold onto them fer too long.
15 10X10X10 rooms can be just as good as one interconnected room at the end of the day when you balance the scales!

Steeler49er wrote:You can't and they Don't!!!

Heroes Unlimited 2nd Edition wrote:However, clothes and physical possessions are not duplicated; in other words, the duplicate is created totally naked and must acquire his own clothing and equipment. Of course these will typically be provided by the original creator.

I've chosen to play this as the clones come out naked the first time, and any subsequent times come out with clothing and equipment they've acquired after that. That said, i can easily see how your interpretation could be correct as well.

Basically, unless you want a whole lot of naked clones (which could always be fun, especially if she was really hot . . . ) you have to have an "armoring" power. I.e. Bio-Armor, Ectoplasmic Armor, or Instant Wardrobe (although I don't like the equal mass in-equal mass out aspect, but hey). Of course, you'll have to figure out the D-Room quandry posed earlier, with the Instant Wardrobe power.

The original Multiple Beings/Selves power makes no mention of D-Pockets for clothing or armor or equipment. Basically when the clone is subsumed, everything s/he is carrying/wearing/holding up falls to the ground where "it" previously stood.

Personally I've always liked the Bio-Armor combination. Then you create a horde of armor plated minions, in a dozen seconds. And for more freaky fun, Alter Limbs or Energy Explusion. Armor plated claws (with an addition die of damage and extra strength behind the blow) and/or ranged attacks. Or if you really want to get nasty, Teleportation. (how many of these fracking clones are there?!?)

~A

AaronCE wrote:Basically, unless you want a whole lot of naked clones (which could always be fun, especially if she was really hot . . . ) you have to have an "armoring" power. I.e. Bio-Armor, Ectoplasmic Armor, or Instant Wardrobe (although I don't like the equal mass in-equal mass out aspect, but hey). Of course, you'll have to figure out the D-Room quandry posed earlier, with the Instant Wardrobe power.

The original Multiple Beings/Selves power makes no mention of D-Pockets for clothing or armor or equipment. Basically when the clone is subsumed, everything s/he is carrying/wearing/holding up falls to the ground where "it" previously stood.

Personally I've always liked the Bio-Armor combination. Then you create a horde of armor plated minions, in a dozen seconds. And for more freaky fun, Alter Limbs or Energy Explusion. Armor plated claws (with an addition die of damage and extra strength behind the blow) and/or ranged attacks. Or if you really want to get nasty, Teleportation. (how many of these fracking clones are there?!?)

~A

Bio-Aura would work to allow the duplicates to keep the clothing of the original.

AaronCE wrote:Basically, unless you want a whole lot of naked clones (which could always be fun, especially if she was really hot . . . ) you have to have an "armoring" power. I.e. Bio-Armor, Ectoplasmic Armor, or Instant Wardrobe (although I don't like the equal mass in-equal mass out aspect, but hey). Of course, you'll have to figure out the D-Room quandry posed earlier, with the Instant Wardrobe power.

The original Multiple Beings/Selves power makes no mention of D-Pockets for clothing or armor or equipment. Basically when the clone is subsumed, everything s/he is carrying/wearing/holding up falls to the ground where "it" previously stood.

Personally I've always liked the Bio-Armor combination. Then you create a horde of armor plated minions, in a dozen seconds. And for more freaky fun, Alter Limbs or Energy Explusion. Armor plated claws (with an addition die of damage and extra strength behind the blow) and/or ranged attacks. Or if you really want to get nasty, Teleportation. (how many of these fracking clones are there?!?)

Mr. Deific NMI wrote:Bio-Aura would work to allow the duplicates to keep the clothing of the original.

As does Shape Shifting, that way I can Pull My "Sexy Harem" Jutsu...

Like AaronCE suggested! "which could always be fun, especially if she was really hot . . ."
Plus I can create the illusion of Clothes on the fly.

Steeler49er wrote:

AaronCE wrote:Basically, unless you want a whole lot of naked clones (which could always be fun, especially if she was really hot . . . ) you have to have an "armoring" power. I.e. Bio-Armor, Ectoplasmic Armor, or Instant Wardrobe (although I don't like the equal mass in-equal mass out aspect, but hey). Of course, you'll have to figure out the D-Room quandry posed earlier, with the Instant Wardrobe power.

The original Multiple Beings/Selves power makes no mention of D-Pockets for clothing or armor or equipment. Basically when the clone is subsumed, everything s/he is carrying/wearing/holding up falls to the ground where "it" previously stood.

Personally I've always liked the Bio-Armor combination. Then you create a horde of armor plated minions, in a dozen seconds. And for more freaky fun, Alter Limbs or Energy Explusion. Armor plated claws (with an addition die of damage and extra strength behind the blow) and/or ranged attacks. Or if you really want to get nasty, Teleportation. (how many of these fracking clones are there?!?)

Mr. Deific NMI wrote:Bio-Aura would work to allow the duplicates to keep the clothing of the original.

As does Shape Shifting, that way I can Pull My "Sexy Harem" Jutsu...

Like AaronCE suggested! "which could always be fun, especially if she was really hot . . ."
Plus I can create the illusion of Clothes on the fly.

I dont recall Shape-Shifting being able to create clothing. I will have to re-read that.

Mr. Deific NMI wrote:

Steeler49er wrote:

AaronCE wrote:Basically, unless you want a whole lot of naked clones (which could always be fun, especially if she was really hot . . . ) you have to have an "armoring" power. I.e. Bio-Armor, Ectoplasmic Armor, or Instant Wardrobe (although I don't like the equal mass in-equal mass out aspect, but hey). Of course, you'll have to figure out the D-Room quandry posed earlier, with the Instant Wardrobe power.

The original Multiple Beings/Selves power makes no mention of D-Pockets for clothing or armor or equipment. Basically when the clone is subsumed, everything s/he is carrying/wearing/holding up falls to the ground where "it" previously stood.

Personally I've always liked the Bio-Armor combination. Then you create a horde of armor plated minions, in a dozen seconds. And for more freaky fun, Alter Limbs or Energy Explusion. Armor plated claws (with an addition die of damage and extra strength behind the blow) and/or ranged attacks. Or if you really want to get nasty, Teleportation. (how many of these fracking clones are there?!?)

Mr. Deific NMI wrote:Bio-Aura would work to allow the duplicates to keep the clothing of the original.

As does Shape Shifting, that way I can Pull My "Sexy Harem" Jutsu...

Like AaronCE suggested! "which could always be fun, especially if she was really hot . . ."
Plus I can create the illusion of Clothes on the fly.

I dont recall Shape-Shifting being able to create clothing. I will have to re-read that.

I think Steeler49er means the appearance of clothes Mr. Deific. But if they all could shape-shift forget the clothes!

And with that Bio-Aura angle, that's an interesting thought. The clone would have whatever weapons/equipment the aura encompassed.

~A

AaronCE wrote:I think Steeler49er means the appearance of clothes Mr. Deific.

Correcta-mundoh AaronCE...

AaronCE wrote: But if they all could shape-shift forget the clothes!

Like I said...
SEXY IMAGE--►"SEXY HAREM JUTSU!!!" ◄--SEXY IMAGE

AaronCE wrote:
And with that Bio-Aura angle, that's an interesting thought. The clone would have whatever weapons/equipment the aura encompassed.

~A

complex items, firearms, electronics, etc... are not covered/protected by the bio-aura.

Mr. Deific NMI wrote:

AaronCE wrote:
And with that Bio-Aura angle, that's an interesting thought. The clone would have whatever weapons/equipment the aura encompassed.

~A

complex items, firearms, electronics, etc... are not covered/protected by the bio-aura.

Kill Joy