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tcabril wrote:Having seen the pictures of the SDF-3 from the Shadow Chronicles and the SDF-3 from the Sentinels - I have to say that from a pure visual standpoint I much prefer the SDF-3 from the Sentinels.

What would be cool is if Palladium, when they get around to doing the Sentinels Sourcebook (if ever - but I hope and pray!!!) that they keep the original story idea - the SDF-3 was disguised to look like a Zentraedi or Robotech Masters ship (can't remember right now) and then maybe after the liberation of Tirol maybe due to damages the outer hull was reconfigured.

Just an idea - but in my opinion the SDF-3 from the Sentinels looks so cool!!!

The Sentinels SDF looked...well, vaguely lewd...The Shadow Chronicles version looked like the box the first one came in...THough the second incarnation is arguably 'stripped down' of the disguise adopted in the first version...

I agree that the SDF-3 looked cooler in the Sentinels. In fact when I saw TSC movie I was disappointed in it's appearance. You beat me to the punch with this thread Tcabril. Why they changed this I do not know. Perhaps during one of the SDF-3's many refits it was changed. Or more likely MR Yune changed this on a whim like he did with many things.

Actually...in Prelude to the Shadow Chronicles..the SDF-3 is the organic / Sentinels design until it is attacked during Edwards Mutiny and Desertion. After this it is refit intot he boxy design at the Karabarran shipyard.

Okay, the Prelude to the Shadow Chronicles comic shows the SDF-3 in its original 'Sentinels' configuration, but while trying to stop Edwards' escape(the SDF-3 is just ABOUT to open fire with its main cannons to vaporize Edwards, and Minmei in the bargain), an Invid Command Carrier deFolds next to it and opens fire on the SDF-3, setting off a chain reaction in the forward section that messes the ship up to no end(this is incidentally when Lisa Hunter gets critically wounded and miscarries), and the SDF-3 is subsequently reconstructed/refitted to a 'cleaner' spec, with incorporated ShadowTech, and it also brings the ship more in line with the design aesthetic of the SDF-4 Liberator and the Ikazuchis...

Hope that answers your question(s)

tcabril wrote:Where do I get a copy of this prelude to the Shadow Chronicles? I have never heard of it and it seems like it would be very cool!!!

Four issue comic series that unlike many other efforts is actually considered to be canon...It pretty much focuses on Edwards' betrayl and the invasion of Optera....you might be able to Amazon.com it if they compiled the issues...or you can internet to see if any issues are available from other sources...The art's actually pretty good, we see the Silverback in operation, and we get to see the incident in Omicron Sector that claims Exedore's life...

tcabril wrote:Where do I get a copy of this prelude to the Shadow Chronicles? I have never heard of it and it seems like it would be very cool!!!

There were five issues and unfortunately they were not compiled. The best bet is your local comic store or an on-line one.

Shawn Merrow wrote:

tcabril wrote:Where do I get a copy of this prelude to the Shadow Chronicles? I have never heard of it and it seems like it would be very cool!!!

There were five issues and unfortunately they were not compiled. The best bet is your local comic store or an on-line one.

As time goes on, these things are getting pricier and pricer. I was able to get all five through ebay for $20 but I just check and now they want $50.

taalismn wrote:The art's actually pretty good, we see the Silverback in operation, and we get to see the incident in Omicron Sector that claims Exedore's life..

You do get to see the Silve back in action (but sadly no visuals on the battloid mode) but at the risk of going off topic, you don't see Exedore (or any of the science vessel's) crew die. I am of the opinion that some of that crew, Exedore included did survive. When Vince meets up with Rick, Rick never says that anyone has died. He only says that the test nearly destroyed both ships. It's possible that the test severely damaged the science ship to the point that all crew needed to be evacuated tot he SDF-3. JANICE was considered a lost and would have been towed back with the science vessel by the SDF-3 for the salvage.

I definately prefer the Sentinels version. I was also disapointed with the SC version, but with more time it has grown on me.

-POUNCER

I definitely prefer the post-refit, Robotech the Shadow Chronicles look. I never cared for the original.

Don't forget that the SDF-3 was damaged during Edwards escape from Tirol. The main guns, like the first 1/3 of the ship, was completely blown off, in Prelude to the Shadow Chronicles. It was then rebuilt into what we see in RSC. So in reality, they are one and the some, just rebuilt.

It's just that the newer configuration looks..so bland and cubistic....and that pinched waist between the forward gun hulls and the rear engines makes it look like it's ready to snap its back under any real strain...

I agree that the new look doesn't inspire me to think of it like the old SDF-3. It does look smaller and weaker than the Sentinels SDF.

And the two Crusader-class heavy dropships attached to its flanks don't inspire much confidence either...

In fact the real reason why they came up with that refit was to make the SDF-3 artisticaly more compatible with the ship of the Mospeada (New Generation) serie. Nothing more, nothing less.

As for its capabilities... we still have to see.

We will have to wait for the RT starships book for the new stats.

I like them both but I must say I prefer the original
as it looks cooler especially in red

I like the Sentinels SDF-3 or the pre rebuild.

avollant wrote:In fact the real reason why they came up with that refit was to make the SDF-3 artisticaly more compatible with the ship of the Mospeada (New Generation) serie. Nothing more, nothing less.

As for its capabilities... we still have to see.

most likely has all the same capabilities...just looks different.

tobefrnk wrote:
You do get to see the Silve back in action (but sadly no visuals on the battloid mode) but at the risk of going off topic, you don't see Exedore (or any of the science vessel's) crew die. I am of the opinion that some of that crew, Exedore included did survive. When Vince meets up with Rick, Rick never says that anyone has died. He only says that the test nearly destroyed both ships. It's possible that the test severely damaged the science ship to the point that all crew needed to be evacuated tot he SDF-3. JANICE was considered a lost and would have been towed back with the science vessel by the SDF-3 for the salvage.

I'd thought that when Louie and Maia went aboard the science vessel that she said there were no survivors? Furthermore, Exedore was standing next to JANICE during the test....Unless the two Icarus crewmen were doing another search of the ship in a non-SAR role after the casualties had been all moved out, they'd have been the first ones to find JANICE...and I think they'd have noticed the famous(wounded/dead) Exedore Formo laying on the deck nearby...
If casualties had been removed from the ship by an earlier group of rescuers, it's indeed possible that Exedore(dead or alive) was removed, and the SAR EMTs simply chalked off the robot-form JANICE as defunct hardware and didn;t bother mentioning it to anybody on the way out....Maia's statement could this mean 'no (more) survivors' aboard, missed by the first groups of SAR first responders...

Shadow Chronicles REALLY needed more and active NPCs milling around in the back...Besides more rescue workers on the science ship, there should have been more Space Station Liberty personnel evacing, for instance...

We've never actually seen what the SDF-03 looks like pre-refit. We've only seen the Exoskeletal hull of a Zentraedi Battlecruiser (as per dialogue). Given the size of the post-refit and the nature of the SDF-03's mission to be a Trojan Horse, the ship itself was probably only circa 1250 - 1300m. The rest of the interior would be taken up with 1 or 2 Ikazuchi Drop Ships (as per The Sentinels Scriptbook 2) and a few more Garfish for good measure. I doubt the SDF-03's reflex cannons could be fired while the exoskeleton was in-place without destroying it.

Rabid Southern Cross Fan wrote:We've never actually seen what the SDF-03 looks like pre-refit. We've only seen the Exoskeletal hull of a Zentraedi Battlecruiser (as per dialogue). Given the size of the post-refit and the nature of the SDF-03's mission to be a Trojan Horse, the ship itself was probably only circa 1250 - 1300m. The rest of the interior would be taken up with 1 or 2 Ikazuchi Drop Ships (as per The Sentinels Scriptbook 2) and a few more Garfish for good measure. I doubt the SDF-03's reflex cannons could be fired while the exoskeleton was in-place without destroying it.

Post re-fit the SDF-3A, as per the RT:Shadow Chronicals ArtBook, has two (not Ikazuchi) Dropships taking up the "arm" parts of the ship. The SDF-3A does not have a Reflex cannon. Other weapons are...
Pioneer-A SDF-3A (I took the liberty of adding the A to indicate that the 'refit' actully rebuilt the ship into a new class.)
"Anti-Spacecraft Defense Cannon: Unknown numbers (its a big ship and I would expect some about the bridge)
"Anti-Spacecraft guns" or "Single Barreled Point Defense Guns" : 16
"Anti-Ship Guns" or "Triple-Beam Cannon Turret": 40
'Fast Response Alpha Launch Bay"(Capital): 6
"Synchro Cannon" (star-ship sized): 2 (the SDF-3A is the only 'listed' UEEF starship to have two)
( "Missile Launchers" (MRL, LRL, capital): Unknown (its a big ship and I would expect some.) )

Rabid Southern Cross Fan wrote:We've never actually seen what the SDF-03 looks like pre-refit. We've only seen the Exoskeletal hull of a Zentraedi Battlecruiser (as per dialogue). Given the size of the post-refit and the nature of the SDF-03's mission to be a Trojan Horse, the ship itself was probably only circa 1250 - 1300m. The rest of the interior would be taken up with 1 or 2 Ikazuchi Drop Ships (as per The Sentinels Scriptbook 2) and a few more Garfish for good measure. I doubt the SDF-03's reflex cannons could be fired while the exoskeleton was in-place without destroying it.

So you are basically saying that the SDF-3 pictured her...

http://www.kent.net/robotech/ships/ref/sdf-3.shtml

is not actually the hull of the SDF-3...but a mock up of a Zent ship hull to disguise the SDF-3???

even though this is how it appears in prelude to the shadow chronicles????

Chris0013 wrote:is not actually the hull of the SDF-3...but a mock up of a Zent ship hull to disguise the SDF-3???

Directly from the dialogue.

even though this is how it appears in prelude to the shadow chronicles????

Prelude has alot that is wrong with it so I don't consider that a big problem.

Though just because the hull is a mockup of an existing Zentraedi class doesn't necessarily mean that the whole exterior is somehow ejectable to reveal the ship underneath...It just means that the exterior disguises human-manufactured systems and internal layout...

Supposedly, even if they encountered Tirolian/Zentraedi forces that could see micronian mecha deploying from the ship, they'd (hopefully) assume that that ship was juryrigged and refitted to accommodate micronian crews...and they'd (again hopefully) underestimate what capabilities the ship(and its makers) really had...

Hopefully, that outer hull also includes something akin to the cloaking devices (as in the old 'Ghost Ship' adventure supplement) that would defeat deep scans capable of looking inside the hull...

I do remember reading somewhere that they were going to disguise the SDF-3 inside the hull of a Zent flagship but that the actual form was the one shown in Sentinels. Also this hull shape is used in all appearances of the SDF-3 up til its refit in Prelude to the Shadow Chronicles.

Chris0013 wrote:I do remember reading somewhere that they were going to disguise the SDF-3 inside the hull of a Zent flagship but that the actual form was the one shown in Sentinels. Also this hull shape is used in all appearances of the SDF-3 up til its refit in Prelude to the Shadow Chronicles.

The class of vessel that the outward appearance of the SDF-3 suggests may indeed have been one of the many Zentraedi vessel classes we don't see (the wreck seen on the way to the Factory Satellite, the various 'blopsters' seen as filler in the various shots of the Grand Fleet, etc...)...Given the number of ships and weight of metal that got wasted in the annihilation of the Grand Fleet, there could be hundreds of various ship classes that we never see, including quite sophisticated command vessels...

I remember the Exo-Skeleton Statement in Sentinels and not knowing what the SDF-3 actually looks like.

One thing I use to make up was that the exo-skeleton looked like the original SDF-1, but bigger. The problem with that idea is the shots shown of the SDF-1 crashing into earth show no Zentraedi type manufacturing (Robotech Masters). All the Master's designs for interstellar travel have an organic design. Nothing modular.

Back on topic, I like the SDF-3 from the Sentinels looks the best.

-Mike

Under the organic-looking exterior, the SDF-3 probably looked the way you'd expect a submarine to look without the outer hull plating and streamlining shell...

My opinion and purely that is that the SDF-3 changed to the form we see in the Shadow Chronicles to be easier to compute for Computer based graphics. The Ike was already there and you can even see in the SDF-4 it looks a little more boxy IMO than the SDF-4 from the cartoon. So again my opinion is the appearance changed so much in SC to make it easier to render with a computer. The overall feel of SC seems like low quality CG even for its day. Don;t get me wrong I enjoyed it very much

Second the Prelude to the SC shows this refit as needed for upgrades and to overcome battle damage. As I understand it the Prelude was written after the fact to add continuity.

I personally really like the organic feel SDF-3 from sentinels. What it really looked like under its disguise and exactly how much smaller it would be than the hull is unknown to me. I like this organic nature because it gave a very advance feel to the ship. A design that appears WAY more advance than anything we had seen from Southern Cross, the Ike, the Garfish, the horizon-t, the alpas/beta, and just about anything else in the game.

Just my thought to an old post.

Still think the Sentinels SDF-3 looked like a flying eggplant with onion gene-splices, though admittedly the bridge tower looked like it could take more than a few hits(although the attack by the Invid and Lisa Hunter's subsequent miscarriage disprove this...obviously the tragic difference between 'looks like' and 'actually can').

i much prefer the Shadow Chronicles version. the Sentinels version always felt vaguely obscene to me.

not to mention the logic of it just didn't make sense to me. so you build your flagship to look like a 'zentreadi' ship..... but the plan was to protect earth by confronting the masters, which means you'd have to identify yourself as humans from earth. you bring along a lot of mecha that don't resemble zentreadi hardware in the least, and to top it all off, you have a fleet of earth built ships (Tokugawa's and others) of almost the same size along with you.

the entire Expeditionary Force gambit is basically set to scream "we're from earth!" to the masters, and make the masters think earth can kick their asses. so why hide that your flagship was earth built?

glitterboy2098 wrote:i much prefer the Shadow Chronicles version. the Sentinels version always felt vaguely obscene to me.

not to mention the logic of it just didn't make sense to me. so you build your flagship to look like a 'zentreadi' ship..... but the plan was to protect earth by confronting the masters, which means you'd have to identify yourself as humans from earth. you bring along a lot of mecha that don't resemble zentreadi hardware in the least, and to top it all off, you have a fleet of earth built ships (Tokugawa's and others) of almost the same size along with you.

the entire Expeditionary Force gambit is basically set to scream "we're from earth!" to the masters, and make the masters think earth can kick their asses. so why hide that your flagship was earth built?

Sneak past any Zentraedi guards still at their posts by posing as a loyal strangler from Dolza's fleet...once inside the system, BOOM! "Hi, we're from Earth and you're in our gunsights! Let's negotiate!"

Yeah...not the brightest idea, but then there's not a lot of them when you're dealing with (relative) unknowns.

taalismn wrote:

glitterboy2098 wrote:i much prefer the Shadow Chronicles version. the Sentinels version always felt vaguely obscene to me.

not to mention the logic of it just didn't make sense to me. so you build your flagship to look like a 'zentreadi' ship..... but the plan was to protect earth by confronting the masters, which means you'd have to identify yourself as humans from earth. you bring along a lot of mecha that don't resemble zentreadi hardware in the least, and to top it all off, you have a fleet of earth built ships (Tokugawa's and others) of almost the same size along with you.

the entire Expeditionary Force gambit is basically set to scream "we're from earth!" to the masters, and make the masters think earth can kick their asses. so why hide that your flagship was earth built?

Sneak past any Zentraedi guards still at their posts by posing as a loyal strangler from Dolza's fleet...once inside the system, BOOM! "Hi, we're from Earth and you're in our gunsights! Let's negotiate!"

Yeah...not the brightest idea, but then there's not a lot of them when you're dealing with (relative) unknowns.

pose as loyal stragglers from Dolza's fleet when your dragging along a fleet of obviously non-zentreadi warships? remember the Tokugawa's were built before the SDF-3 was, and went along with the expeditionary force.

not ot mention the fact that in robotech, there is very little implication of other zentreadi forces not in dolza's fleet. we presume it, but no dialog really supports it. and given the master's reaction to the energy surge from dolza's defeat, the implications heavily lean towards the masters not really having other fleets.

glitterboy2098 wrote:[

not ot mention the fact that in robotech, there is very little implication of other zentreadi forces not in dolza's fleet. we presume it, but no dialog really supports it. and given the master's reaction to the energy surge from dolza's defeat, the implications heavily lean towards the masters not really having other fleets.

Reno's force defending the Factory Satellite...although that may have been more a flotilla, rather than a fleet(we see at least one destroyer-class ship coursing in front of the Satellite for scale, as viewed from Breetai's bridge)...Probably not more than a few dozen warships and damn few of them above cruiser class, as Breetai has to use his ship's main gun to deliver the final blow...the rest seem to have been taken out by VF(and we know that a Super VF-launched Angel of Death missile can take out a destroyer) and battlepod action.
Still, there might be similar scattered garrison flotillas. Enough to give a Togukawa(or squadron of them) trouble.

I am of a mind to go with the SDF-3 looking like the SDF-1 before it crashed on earth. Hence Breetai's question about what happened to the ship when they first see it. It looks like it has/had been completely re-modeled.

The sentinel version SDf-3 was designed from the get go to look and function like a zentraedi ship. One must also remember that ZOR was a Micronion and this was ZOR's ship. Well the origional was anyway.

glitterboy2098 wrote:

taalismn wrote:

glitterboy2098 wrote:i much prefer the Shadow Chronicles version. the Sentinels version always felt vaguely obscene to me.

not to mention the logic of it just didn't make sense to me. so you build your flagship to look like a 'zentreadi' ship..... but the plan was to protect earth by confronting the masters, which means you'd have to identify yourself as humans from earth. you bring along a lot of mecha that don't resemble zentreadi hardware in the least, and to top it all off, you have a fleet of earth built ships (Tokugawa's and others) of almost the same size along with you.

the entire Expeditionary Force gambit is basically set to scream "we're from earth!" to the masters, and make the masters think earth can kick their asses. so why hide that your flagship was earth built?

Sneak past any Zentraedi guards still at their posts by posing as a loyal strangler from Dolza's fleet...once inside the system, BOOM! "Hi, we're from Earth and you're in our gunsights! Let's negotiate!"

Yeah...not the brightest idea, but then there's not a lot of them when you're dealing with (relative) unknowns.

pose as loyal stragglers from Dolza's fleet when your dragging along a fleet of obviously non-zentreadi warships? remember the Tokugawa's were built before the SDF-3 was, and went along with the expeditionary force.

not ot mention the fact that in robotech, there is very little implication of other zentreadi forces not in dolza's fleet. we presume it, but no dialog really supports it. and given the master's reaction to the energy surge from dolza's defeat, the implications heavily lean towards the masters not really having other fleets.

According to the Sent. RPG writeup (pg151) the SDF-3 was inside the shell of a Zentreadi Flagship, which is big enough to contain the SDF-3 plus a contingent of known REF warships (exactly how many would be based on the type). They don't say if other ships in the fleet had Zentreadi shells either.

Now if the Flagship shell isn't being used (like in the Novels), then the SDF-3 could (some mix of):
-approach alone calling in assistance as needed
-require the REF to have some converted Zent. ships for escort
-appear to be chased by the UFOs, the Masters would move to protect the SDF-3 which can unfold in several ways in itself.
-the fleet ships (atleast at range) might look like Zentreadi ships on the Masters sensors, either alone, due to formation, or EW spoofing.

ShadowLogan wrote:
According to the Sent. RPG writeup (pg151) the SDF-3 was inside the shell of a Zentreadi Flagship, which is big enough to contain the SDF-3 plus a contingent of known REF warships (exactly how many would be based on the type). They don't say if other ships in the fleet had Zentreadi shells either.

and in the Sentinels video the 'flagship' is directly indicated to be the known appearance of the SDF-3. they altered a number of things in sentinels to avoid using SDF:Macross images, such as the appearance of the main characters, the zentreadi pods, etc. since they could not use the japanese designs for them, they invented new ones. characters were similar enough you could chalk it up to a mix of stylistic difference and makeovers. new equipment looks has to be explained as just that, new equipment. things implied to be older stuff has to be explained now as just never before seen on screen.
so basically, the zentreadi flagship the SDF-3 was disguised as was a never before seen on screen 'mile long double phallus' version..

Now if the Flagship shell isn't being used (like in the Novels), then the SDF-3 could (some mix of):
-approach alone calling in assistance as needed
-require the REF to have some converted Zent. ships for escort.
-appear to be chased by the UFOs, the Masters would move to protect the SDF-3 which can unfold in several ways in itself.
-the fleet ships (atleast at range) might look like Zentreadi ships on the Masters sensors, either alone, due to formation, or EW spoofing.

or the entire point could be to fold into Tyrol space with a fleet of earth ships and every ship from Breetai's fleet still capable of moving, open a channel and say "here we are, we're humanity, we're here to talk.. oh and we suborned your fleets." which appears to be the canon.
which means trying to make your main earth ship look like a 'zentreadi' ship rather counter productive.

For RPG continuity (ignoring anything else...), I've always had SDF-3 fold to Tirol with the remainder of the Zentraedi fleet, leaving only ASC space forces in the Solar System.